anti fishstick

When I was young, I was always the follower and felt like people's shadows. I have always struggled with feeling dependent, and needy throughout my life. I lived with my parents up until I was 22, and the day after I graduated, I moved in with my boyfriend. I have never lived alone and am starting to realize that this would be valuable experience for me I wish I had... I still live with my boyfriend and things have been tough. Naturally, I found someone that is very independent and needs freedom and space, and I am realizing that this is something I really want to have for myself as well.

My question is, how do you become more independent while still in a relationship? I cannot even fathom that at all right now. I've been trying to do more things for myself, like finding friends to hang out with, and doing things for myself (i'm training for a half marathon), but I still have needy energy. I'm not sure what to do right now....

Any thoughts or personal experiences would be helpful.

__________________
And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
~Anais Nin

snowy

I am also in a live-in relationship. Some things I do for independent "me time" are:

--Volunteer for Planned Parenthood and other organizations
--Hang out at coffee shops and read
--Hang out at the public library and get books to read
--Go out for lunch by myself
--Take walks/bike rides around

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Xerxys

OnesnowyOwl, ever so wise, here's the key, SPEND TIME WITH YOURSELF. Not so much that you become lonely, maintain your social contacts, think about what you wanna do and if you wanna do it yourself, do it. Don't feel bad about that, if you want to do it with someone else and find yourself without one to accompany you, well then, that can't be helped, then do it alone, once again.

It's all about doing EVERYTHING you want to do actually, decline what you don't want to do if invited by others. You find people are very receptive to this. I take it you have the average social IQ so as to employ empathy and not have any desires to hurt or be in the worst interest of others.

Like a very smart TFPer told me before I decided to ditch my parents house, I can think with my D**k if that what it takes to change into something better.

//COunt how many do's there are in this reply

anti fishstick

onesnow, those are great suggestions. Thanks!!


xerxy, so you're saying i should spend more time BY MYSELF rather than with other people? I've been trying to hang out with a bunch of people to keep busy (i've lived here three years and *just* starting to meet people...), but it is tiring because i'm an introvert and i'm not used to the weekly/biweekly demands of my new group. i don't feel like i have a lot to offer people, and can't seem to connect well.

i am actually pretty socially awkward and inept, though, i would not want to hurt or offend others, that's true.

__________________
And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
~Anais Nin

Xerxys

My definition of being independent is an ability to make decisions to accommodate your well being. I hang out with my friends when their schedules as well as mine allow.

I had some friends in high school and we lost contact after I moved countries, like twice!! When meeting people, after finding out "what tickles yer fancy" you'll be more confident in a)conversation, b)interaction, c)behaviors and such... like knowing what to say, what's inappropriate and so on.

And honestly, you cant hung out with a bunch of people...?!! Crowds are good for, ehhh... concerts, nights out, you only need 2-4 friends at a time to hold a good conversation! By doing stuff by yourself it just means not jumping to go out for dinner at the minute you get some free time!!

snowy

I think there has to be a balance between doing stuff with your SO, doing stuff with your new friends, and doing stuff by yourself. To truly be independent means to do things regardless of whether your SO or friends are available to join you, and to do things for yourself, just because they please you. If you are just doing stuff with your new friends, that's not balance, and for an introvert like you, I think you'll find doing stuff on your own by yourself to be more socially satisfying. It's also not independence, as you're still dependent on someone--just a different someone.

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Supple Cow

The actions that you observe in other people and yourself are just habits. If you are a natural follower, use it to your advantage and emulate somebody you think is doing a good job of being independent. I learn by watching and copying most of the time, and it seems to work for me. Find many good examples of the kind of person you would like to be and observe their actions carefully. Think about why they make certain decisions at certain times and what you would do in the same situations. Think about why you would make a different decision and what processes led you to develop this habit. Then deliberately do something different. It doesn't have to be perfect, but I think the key to any kind of meaningful change is to understand your own processes and then do something - anything - differently the next time you are in a similar situation. The fact is that you won't know what it looks like for you to be very independent until you get there, and getting there involves an evolution, not an upgrade. We are living things and we don't change in steps; we change gradually over time. You can't trade yourself in for a different model, but you can deliberately make different choices and see where it takes you. Luckily, you have the tool of self-evaluation throughout.

It all goes a little something like this:

1) Wow, that person did something I wouldn't have done. Why?
2) What would I have done in her place? Why?
3) I know that I tend to do X because of Y, but now that I am faced with this again, I am going to try that person's logic and do Z.
4) Repeat.

I think you can do this just about any second of the day. Even when you are alone. You can think of somebody you have identified as more independent than you and what they would do if they were there in your place alone. Ultimately, we could make a long list of by-yourself or with-friends activities you could try, but none of it will change the way you view your place in the world and your relationship to other people without you actually changing how your view yourself and your relationship to other people! (Don't you love circular logic?) What I mean is that what you are talking about is an internal kind of thing and you won't really achieve what you are looking for if you limit your quest to externals.

I would suggest using this thread for help in analyzing specific behaviors. For instance, why did you choose to train for a half marathon? Why does it symbolize independence for you? Where did you get the idea? When you picture yourself finishing, what else goes into that picture - what other qualities do you see in yourself that you don't possess now?

(Btw, it's nice to see you around here again. I'm not around too much myself, but I noticed.)

__________________
"I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. Twenty-six times I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."
(Michael Jordan)

anti fishstick

heh. By "bunch of people" I did mean 3 people at a time.

Supple, this is really great advice... I am reading a book that challenges you to think of things you admire in people and why, and how you can take that and apply it to yourself. It's sort of similar to what you're saying. I just need to delve into this more. Writing is really helpful for me...

thanks for noticing! It's nice to be back.

as for the marathon, wow, I didn't even necessarily think of it as symbolizing independence to me, but I guess it is..! I hope to run a marathon, but a half marathon is reachable by Nov. 30, which is what I'm currently training for. I joined a running group in town because I've always felt more motivated to do things when I join groups or classes. It's hard to motivate myself and I often think of giving up prematurely. I guess marathon/half marathon symbolizes FINISHING to me, NOT giving up, doing an amazing feat that I never ever thought I could do. I never considered myself a "runner", it was always something I never thought I could be. I never consider myself a lot of things and that is very limiting. So to do something for myself that is amazing and impressive to me, and to claim being a RUNNER is a very independent and good feeling. I think that answers all your questions... basically, when I picture finishing, the idea is that I found something that I didn't quit on, and a race is a good definitive test of that process.. I feel if I could finish a marathon, well then maybe I can do anything... as for where I got the idea of running, I think I have always admired runners and athletes in general because I was not very athletic in high school. I admire the amazing feats your body-YOU-can accomplish and long distance running has always been the ultimate test of will for me.

As far as other qualities I think I possess that I don't currently see now, definitely creativity. and compassion. These are also all the things I admire in people... I don't see any of these things in myself, just like I don't necessarily see myself a "runner". I feel like less of a person that way, and I'm trying to figure myself out right now..

__________________
And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
~Anais Nin

Supple Cow

This running business is going to do wonders for your attitude (among other things). I think that when we don't have any experience in certain things, the only people we know about who do them are the ones who are really good at it. I had no idea before I started training for my first marathon last year that lots of men and women embark on the challenge of a first marathon in their 40s, 50s and 60s. Most of them are never going to run a 4-hour marathon, but you know what? Most of them do finish. And they are often training religiously for at least six months before that can happen. Do you think of them as runners? I sure do.

Once I got deeper into the running community, I realized that yes, there are a lot of people of all ages that are faster than me, but does that mean I shouldn't do it? Wouldn't I rather do a thing and experience it for myself rather than sit something out for not being born with a freakish amount of talent? I think once I accepted that idea, other things just started falling into place and this "independent" behavior started showing itself all over the place naturally. You have already run more than most people run in their whole lives, and you just started a little while ago. I think that makes you a runner. But often it's our own internal critic that is the last to accept that we are what we are. Eventually, you will see that you are a runner too, and it won't make you feel weird to say it.

(I blame school and the whole "pick the most athletically talented kids for the team first" ordeal. I was never the best, but if the skills you needed to play those games were taken out of the whole team sport context, I probably would have been pretty good at a lot of those things. I just never gave myself a chance back then because school was wrought with social booby traps. Then, it was safer to sit things out because somebody else could do a better job at everything so I should just get out of the way. Fortunately, life is not like school and safer isn't automatically better. And I don't want to be out of the way! Out of whose way, anyway?)

Now that I have done a couple of marathons (very, very slowly), I sometimes wonder why I bother with such a painful distance. Really, anything after 13-14 miles is just punishment. But it's the fact that I can punish my body in that way and keep living that makes it a gift. It's that feeling you described exactly - if I can do this, I can do anything. You're not wrong about that, and you should look forward to the day you achieve it because you will find that you really can do anything and that preparing yourself for the marathon taught you how to do it.

__________________
"I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. Twenty-six times I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."
(Michael Jordan)

Patient Kain

Me too. Not to pick oneee person and copy everyyyything they do though, just pick particular things you like about them (identify exactly how you want to word what they're doing so you know better how to emulate it, I need to do this anyway, makes it lots easier to not just forget about doing it.)

I like picking particular qualities of a person. I alwaysss think there's a way to better myself, and if I see someone that looks like they're doing something good, that I'd like to do also, I try to mimic them in similar situations. Also, mockery is the highest form of flattery.

I try to label what I'd like to be more like. For example, I always try to be more patient, because everyone patient I've seen has always been helpful, and I want to be helpful too. I always want to be perfect (though no one is, except my dearest. ) And I especially want to be everything she wants, in every way. That's actually something else I picked up from someone else, wanting my life to be all about my dearest. I'm not sure that was exactly was the person was like, or had said, but feel free to take your creative liberties to see other values you'd like, even though it's not exactly what the person like.

You can also gain from seeing the bad things in people too. Seeing something you DON'T like in a person, and consciously doing the absolute opposite. Well, that's what I seem to do sometimes anyway. :d

Sorry, seems I'm long winded tonight, andddd babbling about something I don't know much about. I've never been too good with teaching things, I hope you got something out of it, or at least understand what I'm trying to say?

And congratulations on the running! I wish I would run sometime lol.

Daniel_

There's some great advice in the thrad, but one of the main ways to improve your independence is the folowing:

Avoid asking for advice on leading your life from interet fora.

__________________

╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

Supple Cow

Well that's not very helpful. It's not like she's asking us to do it for her! I think it's a perfectly normal thing to go to the places you feel comfortable to seek new ideas and support.

I, for one, am looking forward to your updates and further dialogue on this subject when it moves you, anti fishstick.

__________________
"I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. Twenty-six times I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."
(Michael Jordan)