How much belligerence.... - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Push-Pull · 08-27-2007, 07:37 AM

OK, how much belligerence will you take from someone before you say something back? Tell them to shut up? Walk away? Punch them?

We had our share of obnoxious customers yesterday, and it's interesting to see the different levels of tolerance that others have for this behavior. I myself usually try and wade through it, because for me it's quite satisfying to be able to change someone's attitude and turn it around strictly by out-thinking them.

But there are times where I've told people off, but politely. For example, we had an old lady who wanted some wood cut to length, and I spent a couple minutes arguing with her about whether or not she could get TWO 6' lengths out of ONE 8' piece. She was really getting insulting and saying that I was trying to rip her off by selling her 2 pieces when she only needed one. I finally handed her my tape measure and asked her to measure out 6' on the piece. She was forced to admit she had no idea how to do it. That's when I told her "Ma'am, I am *really* trying to help you, but I am rapidly losing interest. Now, *I* know that I can measure properly, and you have admitted that you don't know how. At this point, you can either trust me or not. Now, may I finish cutting these, or shall I put them back on the shelf?"

I shocked her a little, but she gave me the green light to proceed. Once I handed her the left over 2' pieces, you could almost literally see a light bulb go off in her head about what I was trying to tell her. She said a curt "Thanks for your help" and headed to the register.

Anyway, that's how I try to deal with belligerence. I rarely walk away, and I've never told anyone to flat out shut up (except for people I'm close to in some way). How do you people cope?

Willravel · 08-27-2007, 07:41 AM

"Ma'am, what is 8 - 6?"

I don't act rudely towards people. Behaving in turn with an idiot just means there are two people now acting like idiots in the conversation. I'm okay ending a conversation, but I won't snap or act rudely.

The_Jazz · 08-27-2007, 08:01 AM

You know how the customer is always right? They are. Who here acknowledges being a belligerent asshole as their starting point? Nobody. We all build up to that, and everyone thinks of themselves as a nice person to start.

Customers don't always know what they're talking about, and many times they ask for the impossible - like getting 2 six foot boards out of a single 8 foot piece of lumber. But you know what? If you have any sort of sales skills, you can make them realize that they were wrong without having to admit it. And that's what keeps them coming back.

Push-Pull · 08-27-2007, 08:19 AM

Perhaps I didn't represent the situation well enough. I don't lack in selling or people skills. My livelihood depended on it for way too long (and still does to a degree) to not have any. I have picked nits with the world's most nit-picky and survived many times over. I do NOT just reply like I stated above for trivial reasons. My point was that she was becoming rudely insulting long before I had to bring it to a close. I was called a "young snotty bastard" twice before my retort while my answers were still simple "yes" and "no".

And thus my question is....How much do you take before taking some action?

As an aside, it is my belief that there are rare times where the customer is not always right. It doesn't mean that they should not receive assistance, but there are people who are genuinely not able to agree/believe/comprehend that someone else knows more than them and nearly makes it impossible for others to help them achieve their goals.

The_Jazz · 08-27-2007, 08:50 AM

Push-Pull - please don't think I was questioning or critisizing your sales/customer servers skills. I was making a general statement, and it wasn't aimed specifically at you.

As a salesman, I can not afford to have an ego about what I do. Technically, I'm more proficient in my little world than virtually all of my clients, and that's one of the many reasons that they do business with me. That said, I depend on them to give me the recipe for their happiness. Many times that recipe is impossible to concoct. I listen and do my best to never be rude, even in the face of someone insisting that water is not wet. I then offer my best solution and explain why it's the best alternative to what they're asking.

I never take action. I've been called every name in the book, but then again, I'm after long-term relationships with my clients. In the retail world, my attitude would never work.

DaveOrion · 08-27-2007, 10:22 AM

I also have to sell not only my skill, but myself as well. I wouldnt stay in business very long if I gave every home owner who needed it an attitude adjustment. They pay big money and have every right to be particular as hell. I'm serious as a heart attack when I'm working, I want everything just so, as the homeowner does. I dont mind constructive criticism (no pun intended), although I do run into people who insist on being confrontational for no good reason. I deal with them the best way I can, trying to keep emotions out of the discussion. The customer is always right, even when they're wrong.

LoganSnake · 08-27-2007, 10:42 AM

Not much. I have a short fuse, so it doesn't take a long time for me to start reacting to what the person is saying. My reaction ranges from simply walking away without saying a word or talking back. Thankfully, I'm not often put in these kind of situations.

Push-Pull · 08-27-2007, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Push-Pull - please don't think I was questioning or criticizing your sales/customer servers skills. I was making a general statement, and it wasn't aimed specifically at you.

Oh, no troubles. I wasn't so worried about your comment as much as my poor description of it.

Quote:

Many times that recipe is impossible to concoct. I listen and do my best to never be rude, even in the face of someone insisting that water is not wet.

Exactly! Sometimes it is terribly difficult to keep a level head in those circumstances.

It's obvious that most of us try to keep calm, but I have another question....How far does another person have to push you before you take action? Name calling? Verbal insults about your clothes/mother? Outright threats to your well-being?

Plan9 · 08-27-2007, 11:22 AM

Dood, you get a gold star for that. Seriously. Peace Prize for dealing-with-idiocy.

This isn't even a manly deal-with-tools-and-wood problem.

This is 1st grade math.

...

How do you deal? You should know. You just did it.

The_Jazz · 08-27-2007, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Push-Pull

It's obvious that most of us try to keep calm, but I have another question....How far does another person have to push you before you take action? Name calling? Verbal insults about your clothes/mother? Outright threats to your well-being?

I've "fired" just one client in my entire career, and that was after they repeated lied to me then wasted my time then told me that they didn't place any sort of value at all on the services I provide. I told them not to bother giving me any more business since I wouldn't help them and to make sure to move the business that they had with me. They had 3 accounts with me for a total of $20,000 in revenue, which did actually hurt a little at the time.

I've been called every name in the book by some of my clients. They usually call back to apologize when they calm down. As I said, these are all long-term relationships that I have. I'll take personal insults in the name of work all day long. Like I said, I can't afford to have an ego as far as insurance goes. You can call me any name you'd like (and my mom too) as long as you know that I can do what I do very well and you respect that. If you start sending your business elsewhere, then that just reflects poorly on me.

Physical threats are something completely different. Those have never happened, but I'd take them seriously if they did and report them to the proper folks.

shesus · 08-27-2007, 12:09 PM

There are people like that in the world. I don't like them, but I've learned to deal with them over time. I let them say their part without interruption. I listen or pretend to listen, especially if they are saying the same thing over and over. I 'agree' with them and go from there. It's not worth the time or energy to argue with people like that.

HOWEVER, in my younger days, I could lose my temper fairly quickly. I worked at Dairy Queen when I was 16. I remember this lady that came through the drive-thru. She was a bitch, no way around it. She was rude and very demanding. I mean come one, you're ordering a hot dog from the DQ lady. She demanded 2 hot dogs with everything on them. I filled her request, I just put extra of everything on them.

I handed them out the window with my best fuck you very much smile and closed the window. I knew she would check them because she was that way. Well, let's just say that she had a mess of hot dog toppings in her lap. She banged on the window and asked for a napkin after calling me a bitch. I handed her one of the dinky DQ napkins with a look of shock and awe and said I had no idea how that happened and closed the window again and went to the back. I was dying of laughter which almost covered up her knocking on the window and screaming. Luckily, the manager was trying to get in my pants so he thought it was funny too.

Strange Famous · 08-27-2007, 12:43 PM

mostly I just switch off when people rant at me. But in different situations I am different. When Im driving every straw is the last straw. At work Ive sworn at customers before, but Ive never told someone to shove their account up their arse or anything like that.

DaveOrion · 08-27-2007, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crompsin

Dood, you get a gold star for that. Seriously. Peace Prize for dealing-with-idiocy.

This isn't even a manly deal-with-tools-and-wood problem.

This is 1st grade math.

...

How do you deal? You should know. You just did it.

Clarify your statement please. Quoting the person you're responding to, may be an option.

analog · 08-28-2007, 02:00 AM

I've often said that everyone should spend a couple of shifts working in retail, because then they'd see how their fellow humans behave from the other side of the counter.

I think most people truly don't realize what tremendous assholes and bitches they are. They just think they have wants and because the person behind the counter is being paid a whole $6.50 an hour, that means they are being compensated for taking their shit.

Practically no job in the world compensates a person for the amount of shit they actually take or deal with, and it seems like a lot of people demand the sun, moon, and stars for that $6.50 an hour. Yes, many people who work those $6.50/hour jobs are total morons and that's WHY they are in that job, but that's hardly all of them. Even still, the yelling and screaming idiots i've seen in my time are, by and large, yelling and screaming like idiots because of their own issues, not because the person helping them has actually done something to cause it.

For me personally, I've been in commission sales and at a management level in that capacity, and I took a lot of shit. Thankfully, when it comes to person-to-person confrontation, I'm cool as a cucumber and maintain a constant smile. it tends to piss people off way more when their yelling and screaming results in absolutely no change in your positive and polite tone of voice, and smile.

One time a guy was in my face, almost touching me he was puffed up so close to me, and telling me how I was an asshole and "stupid moron idiot" and was telling me off for standing there smiling at him. His friend, who had been standing well back in silence, finally grabs him by the shoulder and says, "you DO realize that RIGHT NOW, you're yelling at this guy for SMILING, right?"

It was a small enough store that anyone in it was within earshot of everything said, and the 10 or so people in there at the time all started laughing. The guy looked at the laughing people and stormed out. SO satisfying.

(PS he was pissed because he tossed his cellphone out of the window of his car while traveling down a highway [you'd be shocked to know how often people do that, btw]... and he was honestly surprised to find out that the few pieces he want back and retrieved would not be swapped out for a new phone)

ItWasMe · 08-28-2007, 02:50 AM

I've seen my share of grouchy customers in retail, including an old man who threw a case of beer at a cashier for some reason. Although I'm rarely rude, my responses are probably a little different when I am getting paid to forget about my PMS and behave.

One woman was a notorious complainer, in every department she shopped in. When doomsday arrived and it was my turn to help her, I decided to head her off at the pass. When she opened her mouth to speak, I complimented her blouse. Okay, so I was blowing a wee bit of sunshine where it might not have actually belonged, but I wasn't outright lying. It really was a pretty color. Her face brightened and she told me that it was a K-mart special. Over time, I learned she had many of them. From then on, she would find me whenever she came into the store. Each time I saw her, I did a quick body scan. I noticed if she had a different hair style or color, new blouse, or lipstick, ANYTHING that would brighten her day and not send mine spiralling downward. When a coworker of mine complained about her in the lunchroom, I told him what worked for me. He literally choked on his lunch and said "you mean you compliment the old woman with the hairy legs and hairy chin? I don't know if I can do that." But he did, and she never complained to him again, either.

Oh, gawd, she is going to turn out to be a TFP'er and read this now, I just know it. I am so busted.

Elphaba · 08-29-2007, 10:52 AM

Does it count if you are told something that is so absurd that you burst out laughing?

Yeah, I thought so.

bluestars87 · 08-30-2007, 01:32 AM

The customer is not always right. I hate that phrase. Whoever came up with it, was just some person who liked their customers way too much. There's a difference between being nice to a customer and just sucking their cock. I'm nice, but I'm also a human being, not a servant. Those people that walk into the stores, like the one I work at, growing up with a silver spoon in their mouths sometimes really deserve to be bitch slapped. It's funny how some people think they're invincible.

Anyways, I've never really gotten into it with a customer. If they get mad when I'm trying to explain something, I usually keep my cool and remain patient. You'd actually have to try to get me pissed off. In my opinion, it's their problem they act like idiots, not mine. If things actually did get really bad at one point, I would just walk away.

Retail sucks period. If I had to do it as a career...I'd probably kill myself, because most likely everything else in my life would suck at that point.

08-27-2007, 07:37 AM	#1 (permalink)
Push-Pull I'll ask when I'm ready.... Location: Firmly in the middle....	How much belligerence.... OK, how much belligerence will you take from someone before you say something back? Tell them to shut up? Walk away? Punch them? We had our share of obnoxious customers yesterday, and it's interesting to see the different levels of tolerance that others have for this behavior. I myself usually try and wade through it, because for me it's quite satisfying to be able to change someone's attitude and turn it around strictly by out-thinking them. But there are times where I've told people off, but politely. For example, we had an old lady who wanted some wood cut to length, and I spent a couple minutes arguing with her about whether or not she could get TWO 6' lengths out of ONE 8' piece. She was really getting insulting and saying that I was trying to rip her off by selling her 2 pieces when she only needed one. I finally handed her my tape measure and asked her to measure out 6' on the piece. She was forced to admit she had no idea how to do it. That's when I told her "Ma'am, I am really trying to help you, but I am rapidly losing interest. Now, I know that I can measure properly, and you have admitted that you don't know how. At this point, you can either trust me or not. Now, may I finish cutting these, or shall I put them back on the shelf?" I shocked her a little, but she gave me the green light to proceed. Once I handed her the left over 2' pieces, you could almost literally see a light bulb go off in her head about what I was trying to tell her. She said a curt "Thanks for your help" and headed to the register. Anyway, that's how I try to deal with belligerence. I rarely walk away, and I've never told anyone to flat out shut up (except for people I'm close to in some way). How do you people cope? __________________ "No laws, no matter how rigidly enforced, can protect a person from their own stupidity." -Me- "Some people are like Slinkies..... They are not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs." -Unknown- DAMMIT! -Jack Bauer-

08-27-2007, 08:01 AM	#3 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	You know how the customer is always right? They are. Who here acknowledges being a belligerent asshole as their starting point? Nobody. We all build up to that, and everyone thinks of themselves as a nice person to start. Customers don't always know what they're talking about, and many times they ask for the impossible - like getting 2 six foot boards out of a single 8 foot piece of lumber. But you know what? If you have any sort of sales skills, you can make them realize that they were wrong without having to admit it. And that's what keeps them coming back. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

08-27-2007, 08:19 AM	#4 (permalink)
Push-Pull I'll ask when I'm ready.... Location: Firmly in the middle....	Perhaps I didn't represent the situation well enough. I don't lack in selling or people skills. My livelihood depended on it for way too long (and still does to a degree) to not have any. I have picked nits with the world's most nit-picky and survived many times over. I do NOT just reply like I stated above for trivial reasons. My point was that she was becoming rudely insulting long before I had to bring it to a close. I was called a "young snotty bastard" twice before my retort while my answers were still simple "yes" and "no". And thus my question is....How much do you take before taking some action? As an aside, it is my belief that there are rare times where the customer is not always right. It doesn't mean that they should not receive assistance, but there are people who are genuinely not able to agree/believe/comprehend that someone else knows more than them and nearly makes it impossible for others to help them achieve their goals. __________________ "No laws, no matter how rigidly enforced, can protect a person from their own stupidity." -Me- "Some people are like Slinkies..... They are not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs." -Unknown- DAMMIT! -Jack Bauer- Last edited by Push-Pull; 08-27-2007 at 08:36 AM..

08-27-2007, 08:50 AM	#5 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	Push-Pull - please don't think I was questioning or critisizing your sales/customer servers skills. I was making a general statement, and it wasn't aimed specifically at you. As a salesman, I can not afford to have an ego about what I do. Technically, I'm more proficient in my little world than virtually all of my clients, and that's one of the many reasons that they do business with me. That said, I depend on them to give me the recipe for their happiness. Many times that recipe is impossible to concoct. I listen and do my best to never be rude, even in the face of someone insisting that water is not wet. I then offer my best solution and explain why it's the best alternative to what they're asking. I never take action. I've been called every name in the book, but then again, I'm after long-term relationships with my clients. In the retail world, my attitude would never work. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

08-27-2007, 10:22 AM	#6 (permalink)
DaveOrion Playing With Fire Location: Disaster Area	I also have to sell not only my skill, but myself as well. I wouldnt stay in business very long if I gave every home owner who needed it an attitude adjustment. They pay big money and have every right to be particular as hell. I'm serious as a heart attack when I'm working, I want everything just so, as the homeowner does. I dont mind constructive criticism (no pun intended), although I do run into people who insist on being confrontational for no good reason. I deal with them the best way I can, trying to keep emotions out of the discussion. The customer is always right, even when they're wrong. __________________ *Syriana*...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...

08-27-2007, 07:41 AM	#2 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	"Ma'am, what is 8 - 6?" I don't act rudely towards people. Behaving in turn with an idiot just means there are two people now acting like idiots in the conversation. I'm okay ending a conversation, but I won't snap or act rudely.

08-27-2007, 10:42 AM	#7 (permalink)
LoganSnake We work alone Location: Cake Town	Not much. I have a short fuse, so it doesn't take a long time for me to start reacting to what the person is saying. My reaction ranges from simply walking away without saying a word or talking back. Thankfully, I'm not often put in these kind of situations. __________________ Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing that you'll be an idiot in the future. Common sense is knowing that you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques

08-27-2007, 11:22 AM	#9 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Dood, you get a gold star for that. Seriously. Peace Prize for dealing-with-idiocy. This isn't even a manly deal-with-tools-and-wood problem. This is 1st grade math. ... How do you deal? You should know. You just did it. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

08-27-2007, 12:09 PM	#11 (permalink)
shesus Fancy Location: Chicago	There are people like that in the world. I don't like them, but I've learned to deal with them over time. I let them say their part without interruption. I listen or pretend to listen, especially if they are saying the same thing over and over. I 'agree' with them and go from there. It's not worth the time or energy to argue with people like that. HOWEVER, in my younger days, I could lose my temper fairly quickly. I worked at Dairy Queen when I was 16. I remember this lady that came through the drive-thru. She was a bitch, no way around it. She was rude and very demanding. I mean come one, you're ordering a hot dog from the DQ lady. She demanded 2 hot dogs with everything on them. I filled her request, I just put extra of everything on them. I handed them out the window with my best fuck you very much smile and closed the window. I knew she would check them because she was that way. Well, let's just say that she had a mess of hot dog toppings in her lap. She banged on the window and asked for a napkin after calling me a bitch. I handed her one of the dinky DQ napkins with a look of shock and awe and said I had no idea how that happened and closed the window again and went to the back. I was dying of laughter which almost covered up her knocking on the window and screaming. Luckily, the manager was trying to get in my pants so he thought it was funny too. __________________ Whatever did happen to your soul? I heard you sold it Choose Heaven for the weather and Hell for the company

08-27-2007, 12:43 PM	#12 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	mostly I just switch off when people rant at me. But in different situations I am different. When Im driving every straw is the last straw. At work Ive sworn at customers before, but Ive never told someone to shove their account up their arse or anything like that. __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

08-28-2007, 02:00 AM	#14 (permalink)
analog Banned	I've often said that everyone should spend a couple of shifts working in retail, because then they'd see how their fellow humans behave from the other side of the counter. I think most people truly don't realize what tremendous assholes and bitches they are. They just think they have wants and because the person behind the counter is being paid a whole $6.50 an hour, that means they are being compensated for taking their shit. Practically no job in the world compensates a person for the amount of shit they actually take or deal with, and it seems like a lot of people demand the sun, moon, and stars for that $6.50 an hour. Yes, many people who work those $6.50/hour jobs are total morons and that's WHY they are in that job, but that's hardly all of them. Even still, the yelling and screaming idiots i've seen in my time are, by and large, yelling and screaming like idiots because of their own issues, not because the person helping them has actually done something to cause it. For me personally, I've been in commission sales and at a management level in that capacity, and I took a lot of shit. Thankfully, when it comes to person-to-person confrontation, I'm cool as a cucumber and maintain a constant smile. it tends to piss people off way more when their yelling and screaming results in absolutely no change in your positive and polite tone of voice, and smile. One time a guy was in my face, almost touching me he was puffed up so close to me, and telling me how I was an asshole and "stupid moron idiot" and was telling me off for standing there smiling at him. His friend, who had been standing well back in silence, finally grabs him by the shoulder and says, "you DO realize that RIGHT NOW, you're yelling at this guy for SMILING, right?" It was a small enough store that anyone in it was within earshot of everything said, and the 10 or so people in there at the time all started laughing. The guy looked at the laughing people and stormed out. SO satisfying. (PS he was pissed because he tossed his cellphone out of the window of his car while traveling down a highway [you'd be shocked to know how often people do that, btw]... and he was honestly surprised to find out that the few pieces he want back and retrieved would not be swapped out for a new phone) Last edited by analog; 08-28-2007 at 02:05 AM..

08-28-2007, 02:50 AM	#15 (permalink)
ItWasMe But You'll Never Prove It. Location: under your bed	I've seen my share of grouchy customers in retail, including an old man who threw a case of beer at a cashier for some reason. Although I'm rarely rude, my responses are probably a little different when I am getting paid to forget about my PMS and behave. One woman was a notorious complainer, in every department she shopped in. When doomsday arrived and it was my turn to help her, I decided to head her off at the pass. When she opened her mouth to speak, I complimented her blouse. Okay, so I was blowing a wee bit of sunshine where it might not have actually belonged, but I wasn't outright lying. It really was a pretty color. Her face brightened and she told me that it was a K-mart special. Over time, I learned she had many of them. From then on, she would find me whenever she came into the store. Each time I saw her, I did a quick body scan. I noticed if she had a different hair style or color, new blouse, or lipstick, ANYTHING that would brighten her day and not send mine spiralling downward. When a coworker of mine complained about her in the lunchroom, I told him what worked for me. He literally choked on his lunch and said "you mean you compliment the old woman with the hairy legs and hairy chin? I don't know if I can do that." But he did, and she never complained to him again, either. Oh, gawd, she is going to turn out to be a TFP'er and read this now, I just know it. I am so busted. __________________ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . "Ok, no more truth-or-dare until somebody returns my underwear" ~ George Lopez I bake cookies just so I can lick the bowl. ~ ItWasMe Last edited by ItWasMe; 08-28-2007 at 02:53 AM.. Reason: because I'm forgetful

08-29-2007, 10:52 AM	#16 (permalink)
Elphaba Deja Moo Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA	Does it count if you are told something that is so absurd that you burst out laughing? Yeah, I thought so. __________________ "You can't ignore politics, no matter how much you'd like to." Molly Ivins - 1944-2007

08-30-2007, 01:32 AM	#17 (permalink)
bluestars87 Tilted Location: California	The customer is not always right. I hate that phrase. Whoever came up with it, was just some person who liked their customers way too much. There's a difference between being nice to a customer and just sucking their cock. I'm nice, but I'm also a human being, not a servant. Those people that walk into the stores, like the one I work at, growing up with a silver spoon in their mouths sometimes really deserve to be bitch slapped. It's funny how some people think they're invincible. Anyways, I've never really gotten into it with a customer. If they get mad when I'm trying to explain something, I usually keep my cool and remain patient. You'd actually have to try to get me pissed off. In my opinion, it's their problem they act like idiots, not mine. If things actually did get really bad at one point, I would just walk away. Retail sucks period. If I had to do it as a career...I'd probably kill myself, because most likely everything else in my life would suck at that point. __________________ "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!" -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions- Last edited by bluestars87; 08-30-2007 at 01:36 AM..