filtherton

Yes, your opinion on what it means to be a parent would be more valid to me if you were actually a parent, because you would actually know what it's like to be a parent. You wouldn't be someone who has thought about what it means to be a parent, you wouldn't be someone who knows someone who is a parent you'd be someone who is, you know, actually a parent. It's like if you were actually a paramedic (instead of someone who might potentially be a paramedic someday) and you were telling me what it's like to be a paramedic you would be more credible than some guy who isn't a paramedic, but insists that he understands what paramedics go through without providing any evidence that he actually does.

I know that you already know this, but it would seem that it bears mention: there is actually more that goes on with being a parent than simply conceiving and delivering a child.

Don't get me wrong, a brain and some compassion help too, but in the end, unless you actually have had a child or have been a guardian of a child you can't credibly comment on what it feels like to be a parent. Sorry analog, but you can't know how things feel when you've never experienced them for yourself.

This isn't to say that you can't have anything interesting or relevant to say on the subject of parenting, just that you can't credibly claim to understand what it feels like to be a parent. You can't expect me to take seriously any statements you make about what being a parent means to a parent.

Even if someone is a parent, it doesn't mean that i will take them seriously concerning the subject of parenting. There are a lot of shitty parents out there

What's really asinine is that even though twice i've asked you how you can possibly justify your assertions of credibility on the subject of "what it's like to be a parent' you refuse to even acknowledge the question.

I'm not arguing for a universal application of anything other than the idea that everybody has the right to tell themselves that some things are universal i.e. if someone wants to believe that raising a child is the the greatest thing ever than that is their right. The statement that raising a child is the most meaningful thing ever is a completely subjective statement to make, as are any rebuttals to it.

By the way, the notion that nothing is universally true is inherently logically invalid.

analog

If this is a dig, as I think it might be (but I can't honestly see how it isn't meant to be one), then I say I am disappointed in how personally insulting it is. I will assume, for the time being, that it wasn't, and wait on you to confirm or deny it. I could be wrong but, at the moment, I'm giving the benefit of the doubt even though I'm less than pleased.

It's odd that you say that, seeing as how I was correct, and it is not a universal truth. Also, as has been brought up before- just because your words are sincere does not mean they can't also be condescending... and I think that's where you're mixing the two. Just because you truly believe you're saying something for someone's benefit (and in some cases, you may be), doesn't mean you're not talking down to them.

I agree whole-heartedly, there are a lot of shitty parents out there, and it pisses me off to see that a kid gets stuck like that. Contrary to anyone's belief, disliking children does not mean I wish them ill will- very far from it. I care about their well-being very much, in fact, and am very compassionate when it comes to their needs, as it relates to my profession. I love caring for all people, children are no exception- in fact, I pay even more attention to treating children because they have different needs than we do. They need more reassuring, more comforting, and they need (in general) to feel and be instilled with a greater sense of trust in you than an adult- because most adults already know (even if they don't act like it) that we're there to help them, not hurt them or take them away forever.

I also have never, ever claimed to understand what it feels like to be a parent. I also didn't say anything about what being a parent means to a parent- I said you can't universally apply your opinion to all people. It's a very straightforward concept.

I'm sorry, I didn't catch it before... my answer is that i've never said I have credibility on what it's like to be a parent, and my assertion that you cannot universally apply an opinion to all people does not hold parenting as a prerequisite.

Right... "I don't agree with your belief/statement, but respect your right to have/say it", that sort of thing. I agree. However, I never said a person is delusional for thinking that being a parent is the most fulfilling/meaningful thing they can do. I, in fact, have made several repeating statements reaffirming that what individuals hold as personal opinions are their own business, and perfectly fine with me- as well they should be.

What I called delusional was believing that your truth is true for all people, and insisting that another person is wrong because they don't agree. Why? Because when you believe something that places an untrue condition on me, you cross over past "personal belief" and into "putting your beliefs on me", which is exactly, precisely what people do when they say, "oh but having a child is the most fulfilling thing you can do!!" I cannot count how many times I've been told that.

This is akin to me telling a person that Religion X is the one true religion, and you are going to hell because you don't agree with me. I then insist that, no matter what you believe in, you are subject to the consequences of my beliefs, and must grant them truth. That is exactly what telling a person "oh but having a child is the most fulfilling thing you can do" is doing.

If you have children, and you find having children to be the most fulfilling and rewarding, most meaningful thing you've ever done, I'd smile and shake your hand in congratulations. There are a lot of people who have no idea how to achieve fulfillment in their lives, or simply have not yet. For many years, I worked retail sales jobs- commission stuff. I did that, I got a managerial position that paid nicely... but I felt no fulfillment at all. It was totally meaningless, the lot of it. Now I'm back to my first love, medicine, and I couldn't be happier. This gives me incredible meaning and fulfillment, and is very personally rewarding.

Feeling fulfilled, and that my livelihood is truly meaningful, brings me an incredible amount of happiness. I respect that for you, it is having children. Even though I can't say for certain what makes a great parent from experience, you're obviously a good parent because you care so strongly about this to debate with me so thoroughly, and you have a passion for it... you're not just arguing with me because you're bored.

Yeah I know, you quoted it before I'd gone back and re-read a bit later... it's long since been changed... not sure what my fingers were thinking at the time, but you can take my word for it as a mindless mistake or not, your choice.

filtherton

It's not a dig, and i'm pretty sure you'd make a great paramedic.



I'm not talking about whether being a parent is actually the most fulfilling thing one can do, all i'm saying is that it is okay for someone to think that being a parent is the most fulfilling one can do. It doesn't bother me because i don't have to agree with them.

As for condescension, well, if you feel condescended to by me stating a fact, then that sucks for you.

I think that a more selective use of pronouns on your part would have made that clear much earlier.

For instance when you said this:
I assumed you meant they as in the people who made the child. I can't really see how you could have meant anything else by this. Your statement here doesn't speak of any sort person A applying a universal opinion to all people. Your statement here seems like a straight-up condemnation of anyone who decides for themselves that having a child is the most fulfilling thing they can do. That sounds suspiciously like you were trying to apply your opinion universally. From what you're saying now it seems like you didn't actually mean what you said.

Unfortunately, what you said came across as pretty arrogant, especially when you tacked on the pithy line about breeders. It's the kind of post that if you see some rookie in politics say something like it you think, "This person isn't going to be around long." I mean really, do you honestly think that it is appropriate to mock all parents? As if we are all of one mind? Do you really think saying something like that reflects well upon your intellect? Saying shit like that is what makes people stop talking and start talking shit.

See my quote from above. Your prior assertion that it is false for someone to think that having a baby is the most fulfilling thing they can do seems to presume some sort of awareness of the experience of being a parent. Otherwise, how can you claim that someone's sense of fulfillment is mistaken when you've never experienced that particular sense of fulfillment?

Just to be clear: I don't really disagree with your position as you are currently stating it. It's just that what you said initially doesn't seem to agree with what you are saying now.

I believe you.

Manorfire

Being a parent has given my life the most meaning. To answer the question "is it worth it?", yes, absolutely - it is to me. I relish having the joy and the responsibility. I just couldn't live without my kids and that's not a statement I make lightly.

Raising, or influencing, children to become well-rounded individuals is surely worthwhile to our own existence and of benefit to wider society's. I know that other things are too, and I do try to follow as many of my desires as possible, but they are less of a priority to me.

I sincerely hope to experience a worthwhile relationship or marriage. I think either are possible to achieve, given the right ingredients. Again, this is part of what I seek in life. I am thankful that I have these choices.

If this thread is to be interpreted on a personal level, then this how I feel. Of course, there are many unique reasons and circumstances concerning my life that have influenced these feelings.

Ourcrazymodern?

Married has tended towards the stressful.
Reproduction even more so.
Nonetheless...a resounding YES IT'S WORTH IT!

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BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

StormBerlin

I voted not sure. People constantly grow, learn and develop in ways they never thought they would and deep down inside me wonders if being tied to the same person (or people, if you decide to have kids) is something I could see myself doing.

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"if anal sex could get a girl pregnant i'd be tits deep in child support" Arcane

Ourcrazymodern?

What if the people (apart from the kids) weren't tied to you? Yes, I am not serious, but StormBerlin? It's hard to grow and learn from within, but the only place you can develop from is from there, eh?

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BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

Drider_it

Omg kids.. they are wonderful.. we have 3 children then we had twins for a total of 5 makes my day coming home and seeing them.. tossing them to my parents.. (im evil they thought once i was grown up it was over muwahahahaha)

buying "cool toys" for your sons.. (yeah i play with transformers)

taking my oldest daughter to the lake and rock climbing.. awesome.

I hear "that was the best day dad" soars my heart

to have my children pile up on the couch to watch a movie.. priceless

marriage.. yeppers.. best thing around..

hard part is finding that one person.. luckly I did. took a bit to get it right but I did.

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It means only one thing, and everything: Cut. Once committed to fight, Cut. Everything else is secondary. Cut. That is your duty, your purpose, your hunger. There is no rule more important, no commitment that overrides that one. Cut. The lines are a portrayal of the dance. Cut from the void, not from bewilderment. Cut the enemy as quickly and directly as possible. Cut with certainty. Cut decisively, resoultely. Cut into his strength. Flow through the gaps in his guard. Cut him. Cut him down utterly. Don't allow him a breath. Crush him. Cut him without mercy to the depth of his spirit. It is the balance to life: death. It is the dance with death. It is the law a war wizard lives by, or he dies.

Ourcrazymodern?

EEWWWW! What a nasty quote!

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BE JUST AND FEAR NOT