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Originally Posted by filtherton
It's like if you were actually a paramedic (instead of someone who might potentially be a paramedic someday) and you were telling me what it's like to be a paramedic you would be more credible than some guy who isn't a paramedic, but insists that he understands what paramedics go through without providing any evidence that he actually does.
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If this is a dig, as I think it might be (but I can't honestly see how it isn't meant to be one), then I say I am disappointed in how
personally insulting it is. I will assume, for the time being, that it wasn't, and wait on you to confirm or deny it. I could be wrong but, at the moment, I'm giving the benefit of the doubt even though I'm less than pleased.
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Sorry analog, but you can't know how things feel when you've never experienced them for yourself.
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It's odd that you say that, seeing as how I was correct, and it is
not a universal truth. Also, as has been brought up before- just because your words are
sincere does not mean they can't also be
condescending... and I think that's where you're mixing the two. Just because you truly believe you're saying something for someone's benefit (and in some cases, you may be), doesn't mean you're not talking down to them.
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This isn't to say that you can't have anything interesting or relevant to say on the subject of parenting, just that you can't credibly claim to understand what it feels like to be a parent. You can't expect me to take seriously any statements you make about what being a parent means to a parent.
Even if someone is a parent, it doesn't mean that i will take them seriously concerning the subject of parenting. There are a lot of shitty parents out there
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I agree whole-heartedly, there are a lot of shitty parents out there, and it pisses me off to see that a kid gets stuck like that. Contrary to anyone's belief, disliking children does not mean I wish them ill will- very far from it. I care about their well-being very much, in fact, and am very compassionate when it comes to their needs, as it relates to my profession. I love caring for all people, children are no exception- in fact, I pay even more attention to treating children because they have different needs than we do. They need more reassuring, more comforting, and they need (in general) to feel and be instilled with a greater sense of trust in you than an adult- because most adults already know (even if they don't act like it) that we're there to help them, not hurt them or take them away forever.
I also have never, ever claimed to understand what it feels like to be a parent. I also didn't say anything about what being a parent means to a parent- I said you can't universally apply your opinion to all people. It's a very straightforward concept.
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What's really asinine is that even though twice i've asked you how you can possibly justify your assertions of credibility on the subject of "what it's like to be a parent' you refuse to even acknowledge the question.
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I'm sorry, I didn't catch it before... my answer is that i've never said I have credibility on what it's like to be a parent, and my assertion that you cannot universally apply an opinion to all people does not hold parenting as a prerequisite.
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I'm not arguing for a universal application of anything other than the idea that everybody has the right to tell themselves that some things are universal i.e. if someone wants to believe that raising a child is the the greatest thing ever than that is their right. The statement that raising a child is the most meaningful thing ever is a completely subjective statement to make, as are any rebuttals to it.
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Right... "I don't agree with your belief/statement, but respect your right to have/say it", that sort of thing. I agree. However, I never said a person is delusional for thinking that being a parent is the most fulfilling/meaningful thing they can do. I, in fact, have made
several repeating statements reaffirming that what individuals hold as personal opinions are their own business, and perfectly fine with me- as well they should be.
What I called delusional was believing that
your truth is true for
all people, and insisting that another person is wrong because they don't agree. Why? Because when you believe something that places an untrue condition on me, you cross over past "personal belief" and into "putting your beliefs on me", which is exactly, precisely what people do when they say, "oh but having a child is the most fulfilling thing you can do!!" I cannot count how many times I've been told that.
This is akin to me telling a person that Religion X is the one true religion, and you are going to hell because you don't agree with me. I then insist that, no matter what you believe in, you are subject to the consequences of
my beliefs, and must grant them truth. That is exactly what telling a person "oh but having a child is the most fulfilling thing you can do" is doing.
If you have children, and you find having children to be the most fulfilling and rewarding, most meaningful thing you've ever done, I'd smile and shake your hand in congratulations. There are a lot of people who have no idea how to achieve fulfillment in their lives, or simply have not yet. For many years, I worked retail sales jobs- commission stuff. I did that, I got a managerial position that paid nicely... but I felt no fulfillment at all. It was totally meaningless, the lot of it. Now I'm back to my first love, medicine, and I couldn't be happier. This gives me incredible meaning and fulfillment, and is very personally rewarding.
Feeling fulfilled, and that my livelihood is truly meaningful, brings me an incredible amount of happiness. I respect that for you, it is having children. Even though I can't say for certain what makes a great parent from experience, you're obviously a good parent because you care so strongly about this to debate with me so thoroughly, and you have a passion for it... you're not just arguing with me because you're bored.
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By the way, the notion that nothing is universally true is inherently logically invalid.
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Yeah I know, you quoted it before I'd gone back and re-read a bit later... it's long since been changed... not sure what my fingers were thinking at the time, but you can take my word for it as a mindless mistake or not, your choice.
