Sage

As of about three months ago I've been pretty good about going to the gym. I'm not quite to my goal of three dedicated workouts a week, but I'm getting there. I have noticed (along with my husband) in the past two weeks a great increase in muscle mass in all the areas I've been working on regularly. My arms have especially shown an increase in muscley-ness (I've actually got "guns" now).

However, while my muscles have been getting bigger, my flab is not getting smaller. No, I'm not being very picky about what I eat, but I am trying very hard to change my eating habits (by eating less of more healthy foods). I am also not getting in the "Five to Seven one hour cardio sessions" a week, but I am trying to do cardio at least 30 min every time I go to the gym, and I'm trying to be more active throughout the day (parking further from the door, walking around more, stuff like that).

Is the weight coming off slowly right now because I've just started being more regular about going to the gym? Or am I really going to have to "buckle down" about what I eat and how long I do cardio? I know that the more cardio I do the faster I'll see results, but is doing 30-40 min every other day really "doing it" or not? Is there anything I can be doing in the gym to make things more effective for weight loss?

__________________

pornclerk

The most important part of losing weight is calrorie intake. Keep eating healthy all the time and the weight will come off. Exercise is important too, but it really comes down to what you eat.
I recommend not weighing yourself, but measuring yourself. You may be losing the fat but it's not showing on the scale because you are gaining muscle. You may be more happy with your results when you use that method.
My secret method is going by the way my clothes fit!

__________________
Who wants a twig when you can have the whole tree?

Jason762

Words from a very smart woman.

Generally you have a certain number of calories you need to eat to stay where you are (no weight loss or gain). Most people lost weight on a 500 calorie deficit. Once you figure out your maintenance, subtract your 500 cals and you'll start losing fat, but not muscle.

You may eat at maintenance and burn off 500 calories via exercise, or eat 500 calories below maintenance. Whatever floats your boat. Honestly, I don’t mind the extra exercise and enjoy eating the extra food

You may be gaining muscle because you're eating too much. I put epenthesis on the word "may". It may also be genetics. I know my best friend's muscles has a tendency to “swell” up when he lifts weights, but they shrink as soon as he stops lifting.

Example: he lifted weights throughout the school year, but stopped when summer came. In school he filled his shirt sleeves, but by summer’s end, they were baggy on him.

But PornClerk has good points. Experiment and go by what works for you.

Good luck!

Ch'i

Diet

There are two parts to the weight loss/good shape equation: diet & excercise. Both equally important, and valuable in the war against the gut. You must couple your regiment with proper diet; it will help you recover faster, raise your level of health, and deliver that final blow.

Side note: Be consistent with both & goodluck.

dman2

Calorie counting is important. I have found that strength training vs cardio is better for reaching your goals. DO NOT give up on cardio, but keep up with strength training and you will see results. I have seen it time and time again in the gym.

__________________
I have to exercise in the morning before my brain figures out what I'm doing. ~Marsha Doble

Ch'i

When trying to stay toned, and lean, it is important to supplement an even amount of cardio. Do an hour of cardio on the alternating days when you aren't doing weight lifting.

A more productive way is to change your weight lifting. Work the major muscle groups, then do 15-20 minutes of cardio immedeately afterwards. This will burn that beefiness, and keep you lean.

newtx

Comparing diet and exercise; I'm afraid diet has much more impact. For most people its easier to build muscle first. Very hard to lose weight and build muscle at the same time.

Sun Tzu

pornclerk brought up a point allot of people overlook the measurement vs stepping on a scale. Three tools you will find extremely useful in assessing your progress are a standard scale that is properly calibrated, a cheap fat caliper (any GNC or HiHealth- will come with instructions- do the 9 point, not the 3 point), and a paper tape measure.
Use the scale for your weight, the caliper to monitor your fat percentage, and the tape measure for you lean mass gains. If your weight is going down but your fat percentage is the same or increasing, you are going in the wrong direction. In that case the scale could give you a false sense that you are going in the right direction. You want your body to be in an anabolic state opposed to a catabolic state.

The zone approach to eating is something that allows you to design your own diet, and it’s a way of eating that can be done safely for your entire life.

1. Determine your caloric intake: example- 2800 calories allotted for the day
2. Divide that number by 6 which in this case would be about 466
3. Schedule your eating sessions into 6 meals each consisting of 466 calories
4. Within each of those meals split the substrates into a ratio of 40% protein, 30% complex carbs (not simple), 30% friendly fats. There are many reference books out there that will break down all known foods with their info to give you this info. The only meal you won’t do this with is the last one. Your sixth meal will only have protein. So it will need to be a source of protein that can give you those calories.
5. Most people have no problem eating breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Schedules can conflict with the in betweens most people don’t eat. The late morning, and early afternoon. That’s where IMO meal replacement powders are one of the only worthwhile supplements to invest in. They are actually an engineered meal for people to drink down in a matter of minutes. It would be like having steak and salad in a drink. For the last meal getting a good protein powder could make getting that sixth meal of straight protein in easier. If designing meals like that became too tedious which is easy, then cooking in large quantities and having the same menu for three to four days at a time makes it allot easier.
6. Unless you are doing cardio for performance reasons, make the session work in your favor. If you do your cardio the same days you do your weight training, or possibly with the same two hour window then always do you weight training first. There is debate about this because some people will argue that the cardio helps loosen you up for the weights. When I worked as a personal trainer my client had 1005 better results doing weights first. The reason is your better off using the carbs, glycogen, and level of insulin that is present in your body to fuel you through the weight training (which you should be giving your all), then by doing cardio after (provided you are at your target heart rate) you will spend a higher amount of fat fueling your cardio workout- which is what you want. You do not want to be burning carbs when doing cardio. For an endurance athlete sure that is they way to go. For someone doing cardio for aesthetics using fat is the better direction. The other choice is to do cardio first thing in the morning right after you wake up BEFORE breakfast. At this point the last meal you had was the protein in your sixth meal in the day before. Again you will be in a situation where carbs will not be fueling your cardio workout. Make no mistake both ways are challenging, but IMO making the most out of each minute working out is the way to go.
7. If you discipline yourself to eat as stated above you will find that your fat percentage will drop even without physically working out. (I’m not saying not to). This is because by regulating your insulin level at a steady amount vs. spiking it which is what most people do; your metabolism will begin to speed up. After a month of eating like this is will be very fast. At this point you body will be burning calories just by digestion and movement. If you are consistent I am 100% confident you will see results that will amaze you. The major draw back—get ready to start having 4-6 bowel movements a day.

__________________
To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

Kensei

First off, losing weight is not all about putting on muscle. You won't lose weight lifting weights, not at all. Also, someone said it nis all about calorie intake, thats not true at all.

If you eat late at night, you will gain more weight then people who do not. A study was done of one group of people, who ate 2,000 calories in the morning, then another group who ate 2,000 calories at night. Group one gained no weight, group two gained a ton. Why, because late at night you do not have enough time to metabolize and burn off the weight.

I have been an athlete all my life, and after 25 years, I can tell you, it is as much about when you eat as what.

I don't advocate going to bed hungry though, so if you need to eat before bed, make it protein, carbohydrates before bed stimulate insulin production, which stores what you eat as fat.

Trust me, I know of what I speak, I was nt born naturally skinny, but I am 5% body fat, and every muscle is distinclty visible. I simply walk about 10 to 12 hoursa a week, and have an hour to an hour and a half of sword work every other day.

However you sound like a real couch potato, and this amount of exercise takes years to reach. Walking may not sound like much, but a four mile ann hour pace will burn a good 80-90 calories a mile.

Also, if your trying to look svelt, forget it. Weight lifting will cause your fat to bulge out all the more. You need to eat less carbs late at night, and more good fats, like peanuts, and more protein. Your going about your weight loss all wrong, trust me on that, the health club doe's not get you healthy, and it's a big waste of time and money. Also, building all that muscle just makes you a slave to your body.

Keep it simple stupid, the kiss principle. Eat less at night, more good fats, and exercise, cause lifting weights is not considered exercise at all, and the weight will come off. You are a gooey mess, so don't expect quick results either, you sound like a dougball, and therefore your looking at years of work. makes sense, it took years for you to become the current chicken fried you, so of course it will take years to become a leaner meaner you.

Hope this has helped, leave the weights alone, calisthenics, walking, and some other form of good aerobic exercise, like walking, will solve what ails you.

Also fatty, it would be a good idea to get yourself a fat reading scale. It will tell you within half a percent either way how much of you is fat, how much is water, and how much is muscle. Cost you about 40 bucks, but well worth it. Don't listen to these other folks, weight lifting is not enarly as good as body weight exercises, look into calisthenics, they rule.

Sun Tzu

Later on you mention the caliper which leads me to believe you understand reading the weight measurement is not the optimal way to go. You may or may not be right about this statement depending on several factors, but most people (unless absurdly fat) are concerned with asthetics. Which do you think a person would rather be at a weight lower than their goal only to realize they are in a catabolic state, and the weight loss is only temporary because it always is in that direction. Not to mention flabby.
Or in a constant anabolic state where their lean mass is burning their fat while they are resting. The scale may or may not be higher again that depends on several factors, but their fat percentage would be lower. In the end there will be no rebound.


Im not referring to you with this statement, but this is the one myth that stops people from lifting either because they havent educated themselves about it, havent tried it, or simply dont like lifting. For one thing females dont have the testosterone level males do, and as far as males go they would have to have genetics going way against them for this to occur. I have heard this frequently throughout my life here and there. It was always from people that didnt work with weights, and who had terrible physiques. The only time I have seen this is with pros that intentionally bulk up and who are on tons of drugs testosterone, thyroid, insulin, and HGH.

That may be; in about four times the amount of time. Its good you have found what works for you. Martial arts is a great workout. Because you have found what works for you and your genetics it doesnt appear you felt the need to experiment or even research any further.

I would post a link to information about the benefits of burning fat by resistence training, but there are seriously too many. Both for females and males alike. There are so many infact that promote the complete opposite of what your saying that you would be hard pressed to find anything disputing it. If you find a source that states weight training does not burn fat, please post it I would like to read the information and how they got the results.

Im not stating your workout wont work, this is about optimizing the time someonee is putting in to working out. It will not take years to achieve results. As a matter of fact I have seen case after case where there was a dramatic change in 90 days.

Weight training will also stimulate IGF-1 and HGH production, something calistenics wont.

I think you unintentionally stated your underlying view on weights by the slave statement. It sounds like you just dont like to do it. Each to their own. But to present lifting as being counter productive in the fat burning process doesnt make sense.



All I can say is WOW!!!!

Sage research information regarding females and weight training there is tons of it out there. Again I would post a link but there are so many that promote this reality, take your pick. Good luck!

__________________
To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

Kensei

4 times the amount of time, aerobic exercise 4 times, lol, you don't know what your talking about clearly. Lifting weights doe's not work the respitory system, or the cardiovasicular system, and is not considered aerbobic exercise by the AMA, or any other certified board of health. Having muscle is nice, but it is purel;y based on looks.

I don't use a caliper, I use a much more accurate technique to measure body fat ratio, electrical current. Oh, and I have weight trained, I have done everything, and I have a fabulous physique. I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about my dear.

Four times as long, I have no clue where you got this, made up figure I suppose, but my advice is not only sound, but it works, simple tried and true methods. Lifting weights won't make you healthy, or fit, it will just maybe, maybe, make you look better. However, you gotta loose the goo before hand.

Could care less that your a woman, clearly your an amatuer when it comes to fitness and sports sciences, a shame.

Ch'i

That's true, but weight training is a very effective way to gain strength and burn fat, especially when coupled properly with cardio. Calisthenics is an excellent method of weight loss, fitness, and overrall health. Its harder than weight training, and yeilds great results. Remember; your training effort yeilds your results.
That she's asking for that knowledge is no reason to criticize; she's already doing more than the rest of her country.

Sun Tzu

1. I never stated weight training was aerobic exercise.

2. You are alone in your theory that weight training doesnt burn fat. As I stated before find any source of information that states what your saying counterwise is valid and I would be more than interested to read it.

3. You want to know where I got that from it was an educated guess on my part. That is based on too many success stories to count of people that trained using proven methods and reached their goal within 90 days. According to you it will take her years to undo the current "chicken fried whatever" you labeled her as. So actually you are saying it will take longer than 4x.



Either way its simply not factual information. You can believe and live as you choose, each to their own. But if you are going to make the kind of statements you are making in the form of facts, you are going to have to expect debate. I was trying to help Sage out by hopefully conveying to her that while you maybe passionate about what you believe you know; its not what Ive seen anyone agree with professional or otherwise.

4. Not considered by the AMA huh? Can you provide a link please to the specific area you are finding the information?

5. The President's Council on Physical Fitness and Sports--- “Weight training will give you the strength and endurance to perform daily tasks more efficiently and safely during work, errands and recreation. It can also: improve your bodys muscle-to-fat ratio, helping you burn calories more efficiently and lose weight” http://www.fitness.gov/nolanryan.htm

6. The American College of Sports Medicine Position Stand-- "The Recommended Quantity and Quality of Exercise for Developing and Maintaining Cardiorespiratory and Muscular Fitness in Healthy Adults" outlines several basic guidelines for strength training programs. "Strength training of a moderate intensity, sufficient to develop and maintain fat-free weight, should be an integral part of an adult fitness program. One set of 8-12 repetitions of eight to ten exercises that condition the major muscle groups at least 2 days a week is the recommended minimum." http://www2.gsu.edu/~wwwfit/strength.html

7. Because you could just as easy find this very apparent, tried and tested information and like me post links disproving your stance, I'm thinking your just wanting to argue for the sake of argument. Anyone can argue the sky is orange, but that is not what this thread or forum is about. I would hope Sage has a sense of humor with some of the liberty you take in your previous post.

Yes you sound as though you have a wealth of sought after knowledge.
Kind of reminds me of http://www.filecabi.net/video/kungfu-teacher.html



8. I have plenty of experience with your method of training I was in Basic Underwater Demolition Class 203, we did plenty of it.

9. I'm not a woman I brought up the female issue for the benefit of who created this thread, but I think you probably knew that.

10. Why dont you create a thread devoted to this subject. It would be interesting to see the entire field of exercise physiology be rewritten.

11. So you use electric current to tell you where your fat is huh? Good for you! I mentioned the caliper because its low cost and superiorty in developing symmetry, not everyone may have your passion to get that kind of euipment. While your at it you should go ahead a buy a DEXAScan.



I think I get it now. Your joking. I have to say your sense of humor is a little off, but thats OK. Some might have seen it as trolling, but I have the feeling you are just trying to be funny.

__________________
To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

Kensei

No, I never said you can not burn fat lifting weight, however, you will loose more weight performing aerobic activity, and I said that the AMA does not consider weight lifting "aerobic" exercise. It is a form of exercise, however it doe's not promote much to your wind, or your heart, the things that make on truly healthy.

Also, calisthenics would be better, and can be harder, which is why I advocate it. You misread and warp some of what I say to fit your own perception, that is fine.

Lifting weights however, if your super heavy, meaning super fat, is not the best way to initially lose weight. It masy be a good start, however I would really recommend something aerobic and of a cardivascular nature. Then, use your own body weight.

I was speaking to you by the way, not the woman, when I said the word amatuer, clearly she is noe to be asking for advice, which is good. Clearly you are one as well. Take care.

Sultana

Kensei, I really wish you would stop being so insulting to people here. You have interesting points of view, but your posts loses credibility with the insults, the name-calling, the aggressive language choices, etc.

No one is being rude to you, in fact many are going out of their way to be polite. Please return the favor.

__________________
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.

Kensei

Yes, of course, I do apologize. You do realize though that obesity kills more people then cancer, aids and smoking combined don't you, yet we tolerate it. Perhaps if things went back to the way they used to be, with less tolerance for people being over weight, perhaps we would nt have so many overweight people in the world, especially in the USA, where I am not at now thankfully.

I was being more comical in my initial post here, not insulting, but you did not see that obviously. As for the other person I responded to here, I don't have much tolerance for being talking out their butts about things they clearly know very little about. Should we have tolerance for pretend experts? Don't they cause a lot more harm then any good they do?

I appreciate the feedback though, and did not realize that one could not be comical without being misinterpreted as being insulting, so I will of course cease and desist for those very few out of the majority who's feelnigs were hurt. Thanks for the feedback, let's all hig each other now, and then go hug a tree, and then we can protest something thats really really bad for the environment. Take care.

amonkie

Comments like:


and

Do not promote healthy discussion - at the least, they make those who are attempting to interact either choose not to reply, or they are being put on the defensive for absolutely no reason. Play Nice.

__________________
Calling from deep in the heart, from where the eyes can't see and the ears can't hear, from where the mountain trails end and only love can go... ~~~ Three Rivers Hare Krishna

Porkchop

Thanks for some of those tips. Great help as sounds like my partner has the same problem at present sage.

__________________
Be cool b*tch now b*tch be cool
Sport 1976 Taxi Driver.

Sage

"A gooey mess"

Wow... apparently I've morphed into Pizza the Hutt!

I did NOT mean to open a big can of worms, but this IS the most entertaining argument I've read on TFP in a while. Thanks for all the input, even the negative stuff. It's good to have opposing viewpoints for the purpose of discussion, remember that.

Sun Tzu, you're a DOLL to go out of your way to thoroughly explain stuff and link to references like that.

__________________

Ch'i

Sage, buy some Women's Health magazines. I regularly read Men's Health and find the information on health maintenence, excercise, and tips to be invaluable. I'm sure the Womens Health is just as insightful.