asudevil83

after reading through this thread, i agree spot on with just about everything most people have to say. i used to be the nice guy, and still am to an extent. but it is extremely difficult to change the "nice guy" mentality because for many nice guys, its the foundation of a personality. YOU are the nice guy, and that's who you've always been.

women look at self confidence more than anything. sure physical attraction is what is first noticed, but if a guy has self confidence he can usually bag some chick who is ranked higher up on the totem pole.

lastly, i started reading this thread hoping that i would find an answer to a question that relates to what's being talked about here. and that question is, how hard is it (and is it even possible) to shed the "friend/nice guy" label that some chick has tagged your forehead with?

Ch'i

I used to have "zero" self confidence, but then I started martial arts, and teaching and shit. Now I have oodles. Confidence really does help. Just don't confuse it with being cocky; the two are very different.

JimmyTheHutt

Once you are there, the odds are you will never escape. Better to walk and spare yourself the frustration. I've done it more than once, and felt better about myself as a result.

Veritas et Lux!
Jimmy The Hutt

__________________
Think Jabba, only with more hair and vestigal legs....

"This isn't a nightmare, its real. Nightmare's end."
-ShadowDancer

asudevil83

now, i'm a very analytical/proplem solving oriented guy, so i think there is always a solution to a problem out there. and i've been thinking about this for a while now, and i believe that there is a realization.

what i have come to realize is that a guy who finds himself in the "friend/nice guy" essentially has nominated himself to be there. for the most part, any guy has a chance with any chick, and if he wastes his opportunity to step up, he essential says "hey, i dont have the balls so i think i'm just going to settle for this".

but what is a guy like me to do if he suddenly develops the balls and confidence, and wants to shed himself of the "nice guy" label? i think it is possible. now this might just be more bullshit and me talking out of my ass than anything, but it might have just a grain of truth to it.

1.) the nice guy can find a replacement "nice guy/friend" for this chick. a sort of deflection for a time being. during this time, someone like me has an opportunity to take control of the friendship and evolve it as they see fit. i guess it would be like finding some other poor sap, omega male to take over the reigns.

2.) the nice guy can fade out of the friendship for a time (or at least limit his contact with this girl), and return down the road with a new attitude towards the "relationship".

this in theory only works when this girl is single. because returning to a chick who is still in a relationship does little to help evolve the friendship into something else.

and a little off topic here to end it: but has anyone ever heard Tom Lynkis (spelling). he's on in most places on the west coast, and has quite an interesting, and for the most part, correct view on women and relationships.

MSD

Here's a scenario:

I'm about to introduce you to one of my female friends. She's gorgeous, she's single, and she's been looking at that guy at the bar in the ripped jeans and leather jacket decorated with chains all night. She just told me she's going to go over and talk to him, but I think he has "bad news" written all over him, and I decide to introduce you to her. I motion for her to come over to us, and introduce her, "This is [your name here,] I think you should meet him," and point at you. I take half a step back, and she leans in so you can hear each other over the music. She says, "Ian told me you're someone I should get to know [smiles a bit,] why does he think that?"

Time yourself, you have exactly five seconds after I say "go." You see her glance over at the guy I'm trying to keep her away from, and you know you don't have much time to impress her. GO!

five ... four ... three ... two ... one ... time's up


You said something, right? You knew I was trying to help both of you out, so you didn't freeze up. If you did, hold that thought for a few seconds. If you told her, "I won a trophy last week for the regional armpit farting championships," at least you got the trophy, because she said, "oh, ok," and not only are you not going to get to know her better, I'm gong to kick your ass after I have to pull Mr. Tough Guy off of her and realize that I don't have a current tetanus shot. Even then, you could have done worse. If your answer was along the lines of "Because I'm a nice guy," I'm going to buy you a beer to cry into, because you're never going to get women with that attitude. I'll leave out the more obvious wrong answers, because if you give those, you're beyond what I can help you with.

"But Ian, what's wrong with being a nice guy," you ask? There's nothing wrong with it. The problem is that you're exhibiting signs of Nice Guy Personality Complex (NGPC)

As a NGPC suffferer, you may have noticed that you always end up being "just friends" with women. You're like the gay friend to these women, the difference being that teh gay friend is probably having more sex than you. Your first step toward recovery is to swear to yourself, and to me (because I'll kick your ass if you don't,) that you'll never describe yourself to a woman as "nice" again. "I'm a nice guy" is like saying "she has a great personality." It means that you have one good quality and nothing else going for you. If you refuse to think of yourself as a nice guy, you'll stop projecting that image to others. Niceness is something that should be self-evident, not a quality to be worn as a medallion. It'll show through in the first few dates when you're polite to the waiter and take genuine interest in what she says.

What are you really saying when you tell her that :I'm a nice guy"? You're telling her that you're compensating for a lack of anything worthwhile to say by trying to say what you think she wants to hear. In reality, you think you're God's gift to women, the alternative to the assholes and salvation to the women who want to escape from them. You would treat her right. You're an asshole, too; you're just passive-aggressive about it. Once you get past the first few dates (if you even get that far,) the inner douchebag shines through and she sees that you're not relationship material.

What you have to do is to develop something that sets you apart from the crowd. Learn to cook and amaze her with a homecooked meal, learn to juggle and amuse her, become a wine connoisseur and introduce her to her new favorite wine, be like me and learn to do this, but for the love of God, don't just tell her that "I'm a nice guy." Learn to hold a conversation, diversify your interests and be able to join in on, or at least comprehend, most conversations that might arise. Be good at something and exude confidence via an engaging personality. Being a nice guy (the good kind, not suffering from NGPC) is great, but it can't save you if you're boring.


You're in luck. My friend's twin sister just walked in, and after this lesson, I think I can match her up wtih the perfect guy. "Ian just told me that you're someone I should get to know. Tell me a bit about yourself." She just saw the group of guys her sister is with, and a few of them are unattached. It's a good thing that you thought about what I said, because this means you only have three seconds.

Three ... two ... one ... now.

"Really? After the last few people I've met, I'm glad Ian didn't set me up with one of those boring 'nice guys.' Let's go get some drinks and talk out on the patio for a bit."

high_jinx

thats what i wrote in another thread and i think it applies here.

to add to that, i'd say yeah, confidence and being yourself is important. just be aware of the give and take aspect of any social relationship...

if you don't expect her to give back any affection/interest in you she won't

if you invite her to walk all over you she will

__________________
-my phobia drowned while i was gettin down.

Deltona Couple

Do what I have done before in my younger years, chase after their FRIENDS, and then when their friends say how great you are in bed, or whatever, then SHE will want you. worked all the time for me.

Now If you want a REAL relationship, do what the majority seem to be saying in here and just be yourself, because if you change how you are now, you just become someone else, and lose sight of who you REALLY are. Then you will actually find the RIGHT girl for you, who likes the "good guy."

__________________
"It is not that I have failed, but that I have found 10,000 ways that it DOESN'T work!" --Thomas Edison

JimmyTheHutt

Yes, he's nominated himself to be there. However, once he's there it takes an act of God to get out. Not because of him, but simply because one never gets a second chance to make a first impression. That first impression, despite what many say, will guide someone's behavior in regards to you for quite some time. They have a view of you, and everything you say and do they will shoehorn into that view/expectation.

You can do it. You just may not be able to do it with HER. There are more women then men out there. Find a different one and try on a new attitude. Remember, faking it works just as well.

The only thing you have control of is your presence and attitude. You can't really steer shit. If you don't like the way things are going, move on. It might actually do the trick.

It sometimes works, sometimes not. More than likely, everything will return to previous behavior unless DRAMATIC changes occur during the off season.

Completely not true. Most girls who are with guys, were with other guys JUST BEFORE they were with this guy. Few of them spend any time single, particularly if they are attractive and they know it. They always trade up. When you get dumped, its not because she wants some time alone. She has already moved on to someone else.

Veritas et Lux!
Jimmy The Hutt

This is a great plan.

True, but not until you are into your 30's, and finding women a little older than you. By that point, if they are not married, they are quite tired of the typical bullshit that goes on.

Veritas et Lux!
Jimmy The Hutt

__________________
Think Jabba, only with more hair and vestigal legs....

"This isn't a nightmare, its real. Nightmare's end."
-ShadowDancer

Willravel

How do you lose the nice guy/friend label?

You lose your mother to Sand People, become cocky with your powers, shack up with a hot senator, get your hand chopped off by an impossible weapon, behead a Count, swear your allegience to an Emperor, try to kill your best friend/father figure, accedentally break your wifes heart so bad she somehow dies, then don a dark metal suit, right Darth?

match000

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Ample

One thing that you guys should know that I just learned this weekend. If you are going to act like you don't give a shit or a asshole. Say or do something that you think that she won't like or approve of, DON'T look for a reaction right afterwards. She will pick up on that and see right through it.

__________________

Her juju beads are so nice
She kissed my third cousin twice
Im the king of pomona

Deltona Couple

Now thats just not true! I was almost 30 (read 28) when I met my current wife, by being myself! And we have been together for almost 10 years.

__________________
"It is not that I have failed, but that I have found 10,000 ways that it DOESN'T work!" --Thomas Edison

Kensei

It's very simple really. You don't come on as being someone who want's to get it on with them, so they put you into a category. You don't change how you act really, so they keep you there. Once you let them know what you want, it's kinda too late, they have already pidgeon holed you as a friend, and want to keep you there.

You will find that once someone has formed an opinion of you, it is very hard to change it. And, once someone as made you into a friend, that is also very hard to change.

How people see you is based in large part about how you portray yourself from the first, and let them know what you want. You can not expect these women to suddenly change what they want from you just ebcause youn have decided "It's time to make my move."

You make your move from the first, and don't be a clown. Your approach is quite wrong. You must first yes, have more confidence. if you think making them, your friends first will make it easier for you to get what you want from the first, your dead wrong, it will just make it harder. If rejection is what you most fear, it is what you will most get. Put your fears aside, and you will find yourself getting what you want, it's really that simple.

Aro23

don't be too much of a d*ck but be sure not to be too eager or be cautious when around women. just be confident, and don't ask them too much if they're ok? or are they feeling ok? and so on...

Mantus

There are MANY resources on the net conerning this. Many are BS...if a man has enough drive he will find the communities which deal with personal improvement and growth.