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#1 (permalink) |
Upright
Location: San Diego
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Story in games, or lack thereof
Evening all. I figured it was about time to stop lurking around so here's some food for thought. For the sake of cutting some fat, you may skip to the asterixes as I tend to wander a bit before going in for the kill. Since this was a semi rant, I left the "fat" in for the purposes of texture and juicyness.
I've been playing computer games forever. Since my old apple IIe, then a few macs, and the last 8 years has been with pcs. Until recently, I have always been looking forward to the next generation of graphics, AI, sound, and generally speaking a richer experience with every wave of games. I do have something of a technical interest in games as well so I confess to getting off on small subjects such as sound occlusion and squad AI and the like. Until recently these developements have been enough to keep me coming back. I feel that the evolution of games has reached a sort of plateau. The truth is more likely a combination of that and myself reaching a saturation point. As of the last few years the rate of change in game complexity seems to have levelled off. Of course they still change but not as much as before. In addition, I feel that games are changing faster in the wrong ways. Let me elaborate on that. The fact of the matter is that every game from every major studio has bad ass graphics with bad ass sound, with bad ass sound tracks and some manner of kick your teeth in AI in it (i feel they [the industry] are predominantly full of shit on the last count, more on that later). I remember that at some point only some games had bad ass graphics while the rest didnt. And that was ok. It was like that one movie having mind blowing special fx. It just wasnt absolutely necessary. But let me get to the fuckin crux of the matter before I continue, in case someone made it this far. *** DING DING *** Heres the dealio folks. Games rely entirely too much on the novelty of their own medium. Bad ass graphics and sound certainly provide a slicker experience but what then? After playing the aforementioned game for some time; after I stop ogling (takes a little while, still), what then? I need a reason to keep playing. Multiplayer based games need not apply here. Personally I find a lot of satisfaction in the social and ever changing aspect of multiplayer games so graphics and sound are icing on the cake. Back to the single player realm. I require motivation to complete a game. The mere act of playing the game and working the game machine, if you will, is not sufficiently entertaining. Many games seem to presume that this action alone along with a tenuous excuse for a storyline is enough. A storyline about as meaty as those poor runway models in the fashion shows. We likes women with a bit o meat right? (this is for everyone, you know what i mean gals) In my memory and opinion, the the best games ive played have always had incredible stories. Top two I'd say say were the marathon series and deus ex (ok thats 4 but whats a few games between friends eh?). More Later. Somethings just come up. What you tink? Thanks for readin'. |
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#2 (permalink) |
Insane
Location: Austin, TX
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Keep in mind that videogames are games first, and stories second. It's main purpose is to be a fun interactive experience. Who cares why the blocks are falling from the sky? You don't need a back story to continue playing Tetris. Stories are just icing on the cake. And don't underestimate the progress made thus far. Back in my day, we'd play games where the storyline was "The president has been kidnapped. Are you a bad enough dude to save him?" That was all the story we needed to pound on hundreds of random thugs. Storytelling in games has come a long way, but the focus still needs to remain on the gameplay itself. When they focus too much on story we get games like Xenogears where you have to sit through 45 minutes of dialogue at every stupid cutscene.
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#3 (permalink) |
Junkie
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The stories need to serve the game.
Back in the day, outside of the arcade scene, adventure games were huge at one point, with Sierra dominating with their King's Quest series, Hero's Quest, Police Quest, Leisure Suit Larry, Space Quest, Laura Bow, Manhunter, Gabriel Knight, etc. Lucasarts had their own with Monkey Island, Zak Macracken, Day of the Tentacle, etc. And Infocom with their Zork Series and every other parser driven game they created. Back when visuals were crappy, designers needed to make games with great stories to engage the mind, which could arguably provide the best graphics out there. As technology improved, the shift moved away from stories and more about visuals. Will Wright said it best, "Back then, it was about 20% visuals and 80% mind, nowadays, it's 80% visuals and 20% mind." (paraphrase) Arcade games necessarily had lackluster storylines, simply because of the niche they operated in. Rarely do people have time for a narrative in the span of a few minutes, which is what the average player does at an arcade. The evolution of technology and gamespace affects how much narrative is focused on these days. We've gone from text-based games to graphically intensive games to online games. MMORPGs have questionable narrative content, but that's because it's hard to tell a story to thousands of people simultaneously in a medium where you don't control every aspect of the storytelling, a la movies. Instead, events are created and story is communicated in that fashion. I agree that gameplay is still paramount, and that some designers would do well to remember that. Stories serve the game. If the game succeeds with a storyline like, "The president has been kidnapped," then so much the better. But it's definitely a measure of what type of game that determines the importance of story in it. |
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#4 (permalink) |
C'mon, just blow it.
Location: Perth, Australia
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Pretty much hit it on the head, FngKestrel. The best games are ones with stories that compliment the gameplay wonderfully, like Deus Ex, most Zelda games, the venerable Marathon, System Shock, RE4 and so forth. Those are the ones that will be remembered in years to come, while those that are all eye candy will age by the next generation.
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"'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex." -- From an IGN game review. |
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#5 (permalink) |
I'm a family man - I run a family business.
Location: Wilson, NC
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I agree 100%. The games I have the most fun in are the ones with engaging stories. Granted, some games don't need stories (such as puzzle or racing games).
The best advice, as much as I get flamed for it, it to check as many reviews as you can before putting time into a game. Use word of mouth also. Reviewers will tell you if the story sucks. There are still tons of games out there with excellent stories. Just gotta sift through the shit.
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Off the record, on the q.t., and very hush-hush. |
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#6 (permalink) |
Vroom!
Location: Toronto
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The Xbox 360 comes out in November. I was on that bandwagon. Cool new graphics, ra ra ra... Then I realized that less than 10 days later, I'll be wanting something like 4 new PS2 games and that GameCube game I've been waiting for since 2001. I don't think we're even ready for this next generation. The XBox was the most powerful machine of the current generation, and it's not even going to have a 5 year life. It's somewhat upsetting. I have to wonder how long it will be till we see a third Xbox... 2008? 2007?
I discovered Police Quest a few years ago, and was blown away. That style of game shouldn't have gone out. I'd like to see it updated with current graphics and the same text entry input. I've just this week discovered the brilliance of Perfect Dark. I can't get over how great that game is. I'm having alot more fun with it that I ever did with, say, Halo.
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I do it for the rare drops |
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#7 (permalink) | |
Blood + Fire
Location: New Zealand
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Funny, one of our columnist for NZGamer just put this article up...
http://nzgamer.com/index.php?type=3&id=134 Stories in Games Quote:
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#8 (permalink) |
Upright
Location: San Diego
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Indeed games are games, but thats where I think the difference in expectations comes from. I realize that I have always expected games to become another medium on par with books, theater, and movies. I don't believe there is any reason for games to remain simply games as we know them, off in a corner by themselves away from movies, books, and theater.
I have alot of respect for Will Wright. What he said regarding 80 20 I believe is entirely true. The old games had little else to offer besides an engaging mental side, so designers had to work with what they had. In the fullness of things, I believe there needs to be balance. I dont mean 50 50 for all games but as was mentioned before sufficient story to serve and improve the game. After all, anything that detracts from the enjoyment is useless in the end right? The instant that whatever manner of story content (or gameplay gimmick) we are dealing with begins to interfere with the experience as a whole, it becomes as useless as the filler levels we've all dealt with. And again, as was said before, a game is a game. As such it shouldnt be filled with stupidly enormous dialogues because what sets games apart from the other mediums is that they are interactive and dynamic. I feel like if I wanted a book or book on tape, I would have bought one. So much cheaper too. The point about long dialogue also brings up another interesting issue. How can the story be related to the player without disrupting the visceral experience that makes games what they are? Its tricky, I think. There are a number of mechanisms available and I believe a combination of these tools yield the best result as their effectiveness is highly contextual. Off the top of my head, these tools are: Cutscene, in game Cutscene, pre rendered Narration (one of my favorite) Textual dialogue Inter-character dialogues and interactions I tend to favor narration over the others as it is very rich and doesnt interrupt the gameplay experience at all. In a narrative, you have the voice actor with their hopefully great skill enriching your experience while the gameplay does the same. Its a double whammy for me. I dont feel the other methods are able to communicate and enrich to the same degree as narration on a consistent basis. But like I said before, they all have their place, together I might add. Think of your favorite game with a story and imagine that it had the story told with a well balanced sprinkling of the methods listed above and perhaps others I have failed to mention. How cool would that be? |
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#9 (permalink) |
Upright
Location: San Diego
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I began writing my last post before the incredible piece by Mr. Deflok. The man that wrote that has obviously taken more time to organise and present his thoughts than I have, but I suppose thats why he's paid for it. That aside, I think its a great piece and was happy to hear some of the items I mentioned mirrored.
After reading I realized one important thing mentioned in that article is how sensitive a genre is to this. I want to touch on this more. Dont get me wrong, I'm not crusading for a story in tetris and if there was one I would likely start deriving pleasure from torturing small rodents out of shear sickness over the matter. Now I'm sure many will disagree with the following. Dont hate me. Yet. I dont consider all game genres or mediums to be equal in an evolutionary sense. Text adventures were great, but they can't stand up to what the new technology allows us to create in the way of game experiences. Some genres I feel survive due to their own novelty, and thats ok. As far as I know, that is why theater is still around. There is something charming about the stage presentation. And its charming enough to keep it around despite the fact that a movie can better relate a play. I would say the same about hand drawn animation as well. Please, I'm not trying to be derrogatory here towards any one genre or medium. That said, I feel that games that maintain fluid action and involving story at the same time are the most highly evolved. This follows from my belief that games, offering a dynamic experience, are more highly evolved than say movies. Theories of evolution aside, sometimes you just want a good flick. I'm in no way trying to negate that reality. I think some day games will grow far beyond their simple nature today and become interactive fictional experiences. At the same time, some games need not deliver any more than they do. The connection here is that in order for this to occur it must become common the way hot graphics and sound are to have story lines just as developed as our purdy shaders these days. 400 years from now, the best way to play an old puzzle game might still be on some kind of portable 2d display. And maybe the best way to play chess will always be on a real chess board. who knows. I think what I'm really trying to say here is that a holodeck would rock. ![]() PS I think porn with a good story is better than without. ![]() Last edited by roofles; 07-28-2005 at 02:43 PM.. |
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#10 (permalink) |
C'mon, just blow it.
Location: Perth, Australia
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roofles, what you mentioned about text adventures works both ways. Compare MMO's to MUDs. The graphical orgasmic pleasure (or whatever) of Everquest of WoW is great, if you're into that. The problem therein lies with the player's ideas of what's what. Imagination is the key, so to speak. In a MUD, I can imagine and re-create any character I want, and it'll come across that way. In an MMO, I'm trapped by set boundaries and guidelines with character creation. With an MMO, if my Level 32 Knight looks exactly the same as another Knight, well, what can I do?
As for plain ol' single player text adventures, well, you're spot on ![]() ![]()
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"'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex." -- From an IGN game review. |
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#11 (permalink) |
Upright
Location: San Diego
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Good point on giving up the freedom of your vision of your character. I suppose the arguement is as valid as why novels shouldn't have loads of pretty pictures. Then again, I would say that the old MUDs or text adventures were much more like an interactive novel than a game in the sense that the visceral experience we have nowadays wasnt present. At least it always felt that way to me. Its always possible that I lack the imagination to make the visceral experience for myself without an orgy of shaders and polys onscreen gyrating to throbbing soundtracks...or something
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#12 (permalink) |
Insane
Location: Gaming Thread, and the UK
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A couple of recent titles I have played have had pretty good storylines:
Beyond Good and Evil Oddworld Strangers Wrath Ironically both of these did not sell well over here in the UK. EA obviously thought it would be more important to promote FIFA Street and NFSU2. Also thought Half Life 2 had a pretty good plot when compared to the likes of Doom 3. Seems to me though that the games which are story driven seem to suffer in terms of sales. Stick a FIFA or Star Wars franchise on any genre and it will sell ![]() |
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#13 (permalink) | |
Junkie
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Quote:
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#14 (permalink) |
Upright
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I have always wondered why PC games mostly lacked a real in depth story. The Final Fantasy series is overwhelminly popular, mostly because of its amazing storylines. Quite a few other Console RPG's have storylines that make you feel as you were in the story but why dont they make any games on the PC that can have that same effect? Or am I just missing them?
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#15 (permalink) | |
Junkie
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Quote:
And adventure games are making their comeback, at a lower price point these days albeit. |
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#16 (permalink) |
Upright
Location: San Diego
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Lately I've been seeing articles here and there, more or less about this subject. I noticed something that stuck with me while reading them. The presence of a story in the game should not be confused with a properly constructed plot. Character development also seems to be sorely absent these days.
While RPGs do allow for much richer stories, character development is rarely there. I figure story is what they told us it was in english class, and anything that doesn't meet those requirements really isnt much of a story. Ruben mentioned hl2. The gameplay was incredible. They really have that down pat, even if it felt a bit formulaic at times. The story was a huge let down. I spent 75% of the game waiting to figure out what is going on just to jump right into the resolution of the whole conflict that was hardly built. It seems that the standards for story within games is not the same for story within movies or books. There isn't any reason it can't be that way. fng, do you suppose its possible that gamers aren't going for story driven games because they aren't being fed too many? I'm thinking that is a stong possibility. You're right, story driven games are out of style. I'm not sure thats the key here anymore. I don't think the story should drive the game by any means, the player should. Many of these older games forced the player to complete a certain arc of the story before advancing. It seems modern gaming needs an infusion of story intensive games driven by the players actions, not story driven games. what do you think? |
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#17 (permalink) | |
Junkie
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Quote:
Game should be driven by players, but having a cohesive narrative alongside it is actually incredibly difficult. Lee Sheldon gives a regular seminar at the GDC about trying to put good story telling in an open environment, which is what more and more games are trying to be. Back in the days of adventure games, you could get away with something linear because it was easy to make checkpoints in the system. Nowadays, depending on your game and the player, you may not ever have a storyline emerge. And if you do, what's the best way to present the story? MMORPGs suffer from this because while they can offer content, content is not the same as story, which several companies are finding out these days. I agree with you that story for games should be held to the same standard as for other forms of entertainment, but game makers have a significany hurdle to overcome in that they can't control primary aspects of storytelling. For example, movie makers can control their cinematography, and block their shots the way to have the most impact. Character dev is a tricky issue in games because it only appears in many games as a "leveling up" of sorts. But what about when character development requires loss? Unless it's in a cutscene or some other hit over the head sequence, most players are going to just reload and try again. For instance, in the second Prince of Persia (The Shadow and the Flame), it is necessary for the prince to die at a certain point. Most people, when they hit that moment, reload the game. But you need to sit through the entire sequence to continue. A flaw in the story telling? Possibly, but it's much more interesting than a cutscene. Will Wright also brought a good point with Spore and what he discovered in the creation of the Sims. People don't like to tell stories about characters in the games, they want to put themselves in the characters and tell stories about themselves. It's like, no one cares how Lara Croft won against the bad guys, because everyone's seen the cutscene and it's immutable. But people are interested in telling others about how THEY played the game and the cool thing they did on the way to beating the bad guys. |
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#18 (permalink) | |
Upright
Location: New jersey
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Quote:
FPS's can incorporate a great storyline too....Duex Ex The sequel was crap though I think Also, neither of the games i've mentioned above sacrified gameplay in any way. |
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#19 (permalink) |
Who You Crappin?
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
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This is why I love the Grand Theft Auto series. I'm not in it for the violence, sex, or whatever. I'm in it because it's a fully immersive story experience. You really get to know the characters in the game, everything you do makes sense in the context of the world/storyline, etc. Believe me, GTA games wouldn't sell so well if it was just all "bang bang, kill, fuck" without a cohesive storyline.
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"You can't shoot a country until it becomes a democracy." - Willravel |
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#20 (permalink) | |
Upright
Location: Riverdale IL
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Quote:
"man can accept the impossible but not the improbable" - Oscar Wilde |
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Tags |
games, lack, story, thereof |
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