Anxst

So, I quit WoW a few months back, feeling just burnt out. I'd log in and go through the motions, but I wasn't having fun anymore.

I'd heard a bit about Warhammer Online in the past, but hadn't paid a lot of attention, despite having played Warhammer 40k (the tabletop figurines game) for years in my youth.

Then suddenly, I got slapped upside the head by a friend with



Yep, that's a screenshot from over a year ago, and the game isn't even out yet. That Chosen looks bad ass.

Even better, we have



the ultra cool witch hunter. He's been making Puritan hats sexy since 1984.

So, I looked into the game a bunch more. It's being made by Mythic, who I loved for RvR in DAoC. They say they learned from all their DAoC mistakes (Trials of Atlantis, anyone?) and have made the best game they can make.

I think the video shows the best game they can make is damned pretty.

You can see it Here

I preordered a Collector's Edition just before they sold out using the last of my birthday money. So, what have folks heard? What do you think?

And most of all, who else from TFP is going to be there?

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CyCo PL

I've heard bad things about it, but one of my friends just got into beta so I'll see what he thinks about it.

Anxst

Uh oh. What kind of bad things? All the stuff I've found, regarding the public quests, grouping systems, and RvR, sound pretty cool.

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Dragonlich

I heard that they have dropped a few classes, because the game wasn't going to be finished in time otherwise. Some of those classes were pretty major. They have also dropped a few capital cities, which has a big impact on the game (given that one of the main features is that you can conquer said cities). These things will probably be added in a patch/expansion later. I haven't got the details right now, and could be wrong (I've read an article a few weeks ago).

Personally, I think I'd prefer a 40K game. But this might also be fun. Of course, I try to stay away from internet gaming; I know I'll get addicted, which is bad for my health.

Anxst

I can understand the concerns. However, I've seen a number of interviews with the game developers stating that they dropped the 4 classes because with the way they were built, they just weren't fun to play. Rather than releasing unfun classes, thay've decided to cut them and either drop them altogether or rework them for release at a later date by expansion or patch.

With the cities, they stated they dropped 4 of them so they could focus on making the 2 they are including as kick ass as can be, or the game wouldn't have released when they wanted. They also stated that as long as they had the mechanics up and running correctly they were okay with that.

I got the feeling from how they were talking they were unhappy with it themselves, but games have to come out eventually. I think such cuts get made in many games, but most of them aren't as communicative about it. It seemed as if they knew their plans had overreached their grasp, and they were simply informing the fans of it.

Maybe I'm just in love with the idea of the game, and therefore can't see the flaws as well as others. I dunno.

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Apokx

I got into the closed beta, played for two hours and promptly uninstalled.

reconmike

I am looking forward to release, I played DAOC for years when my entire guild went to WoW, I followed and played for a year, what a waste of a year. I reactivated my DAOC accounts and am still playing untill War comes out. Mythic has the best PvP system of any mmo released. I am just hoping that war has a /stick command because all that dancing around while in melee combat like in WoW is quite annoying.

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Anxst

Ugh. I know you're under the NDA, so you can't give my any details, but that doesn't sound good.

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Nisses

No NDA on me. Tried with the login of a friend, so to them.

I have to agree with Apokx, I tried it for one evening, and then deleted the whole thing.
It was bland, actually fairly empty and clean as far as areas go

And the interface for classes was nothing new either.


Mind you, this *is* almost a year ago. I can't say what it's like now. I'll keep my eye on it when it releases, might end up being a good game.

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Anxst

Well, I shall see how it goes. My pre-order of the Collector's Edition gets me into the open beta just before release, so if it truly seems horrible I can always cancel before my order ships.

Still, many of the Beta testers (who are under the NDA) have stated general things that make it sound as if they think the game is incredibly good. The NDA should come down soon, too, so we'll see what folks have to say at that time.

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Great_White

When I saw this at E3 it seemed pretty promising. But obviously playing with a dev and closed beta might be very different.


Also, if youre looking for a new MMO now, you should give Vanguard a go. At launch it was fucking awful shit, but last month they had a free month to people with old accounts, and I gotta say, I'm hooked on this. The improvements have been outstanding.

Seaver

For those of you that played one day and quit... you don't get it.

Dark Age of Camelot sucked for 49 levels... and was mind-blowingly awesome at lvl 50. The RvR (not PvP) is Realm vs. Realm. The ENTIRE server would mobilize for epic battles. Remember when PvP first started in WoW at that farm? Imagine that on steroids.... on a daily basis with guilds and alliances (up to 12 guilds) which are very well organized to take and defend keeps.

Imagine if an entire continent could be captured, and defended against instead of the "don't hit me" zones every 200 yards. Guilds worked with (most of the time at least) each other to accomplish goals. There were no afk rp-pharmers, there were no /afk droppers. Holding a keep with 8 people against 50+ occurred quite often as long as the defenders were organized.

I'm in closed Beta. I will say that it's on par with WoW PvE right now (no raiding yet). That is NOT where the game shines... the game shines in the RvR and the classes reflect it.

For example... Taunts. Taunts work in RvR, not by forcing them to attack the tanks... but lowering the damage (30% at the moment) they deal to anyone BUT the one taunting. This causes defensive tanks to become very powerful by one minor change.

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Anxst

Now THAT"S what I was hoping for. I loved RvR (RR4 Cave Shammy before ToA hit and I gave it up) and I was lookign forward to it again, and in the Warhammer universe no less!

Is the PvE at least passable, though? Sounds like most folks who gave it a try really didn't care for it, and I do rather like a bit of PvE from time to time.

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Seaver

PvE is actually "better" than WoW. I say it with quotations because it is WoW... but evolved. It's by no means revolutionary, but it's been built upon a very good system. They took the quest-giver sign, the map, and the quest log at the side of the screen from WoW. However it has evolved beyond it. You can see on your map and mini-map red borders in which the quests take place. So no more server-wide spamming of "where is this damn bug?" or whatever they can't find. Also, if you've already killed 6 bugs on your way to a quest area and return to get a quest where you have to go kill said bugs 20 times.... the 6 you've already killed are saved and you have that head start. In addition if a quest asks for 10 bandit heads, you don't have to kill 30 of them in order for the random quest head to drop 10 times. Kill one you get one.

Where it shines PvE wise are the Public Quests. No camp-stealers or anything you need to worry about. Public quests have 2-6 (so far) stages where it gets progressively harder. For example, orcs are landing in the High Elf area on a beach head. You as an Elf have to fight off waves of Orcs, supported by your NPCs. Each wave brings harder opponents, requiring more people to complete (time runs out and the PQ resets). So instead of competing others to kill the most for drops, you're working in tandem to finish it together... regardless if you're grouped or not. The final boss(s) drop decent loot, but the best loot for the level come with renown. You gain renown by participating in the quest. If you come just as the boss gets killed, you get very little renown of course and are not treated the same as someone who gets an invite at the last second. Said renown have merchants which you have a choice of armor/etc for your class. Also, your points for that round are tallied by your abilities used, and are ranked using bonus points in your random loot roll on the final boss. So if you've been afk you stand VERY little chance of a loot drop. Loot drops are a "bag" which gives the appropriate loot to your class if you win it.

None of this is NDA secret, it's available in lots of videos.

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Apokx

WAR isnt better than WoW in any sense of pve. They copy/pasted the basic elements of WoW(poorly), and the only real difference will be the rvr stuff. If you're as nitpicky as I am about alot of stuff (graphics, animations, ability types and classes) you won't be impressed.

Seaver, why would you play DaOC if it sucked for the first 49 levels just to enjoy the end-game? I would say WoWs strongest point is the 1-69 game. The leveling and quests(and areas you do them in) are just so interesting, and while the graphics arent the best, WoW definately has its own style that many people find appealing. WAR has none of that. They copy/pasted and came up with a mediocre game.

Obviously something is up if people are saying the RVR makes up for everything else.

btw, my closed beta account was less than two weeks ago, so its the newest build that I played.

Seaver

I joined after seeing how much fun the endgame of DAoC was. WoW was ONLY fun during the 1-59 level, at 60 they had nothing to offer. Even when PvP was released it was horrid, the classes were designed for PvE and in no way resembled PvP balance. DAoC had only mediocre stuff 1-49, and at 50 it was amazing. It had some balance issues, to which no one will lie. However playing WAR the classes seem very well balanced and reflect the focus on RvR.

Have you tried the Public Quests? Have you tried RvR? Be honest and tell us how long you played the game? If you play it for under 20 levels you can't pass judgement as you won't find a single MMO which gets good before then.

I remember reading the same stuff regarding WoW from EQ'ers. WoW was not revolutionary, and neither is WAR. Honestly, nothing in MMO's have been revolutionary since UO. You say you're nitpicky, I say you're going in with pre-conceived notions. The similarities between the WoW and WAR universe immediately give credence to those who say it's a copy/paste. It looks very similar because Warcraft was designed around Warhammer (couldn't get the rights).

I'm not saying it's the second coming, but I'm sold on it, and all of our old DAoC guild have had a blast with the RvR. I

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Apokx

WoW was revolutionary in the fact that it was fun. I played EQ for about four years, and tbh, I hated everything about it. The boring grinding, the horrid graphics(Luclin was the worst thing I've ever seen that was meant to be an upgrade) the AA system, and the raiding. The PVP system was laughable at best. The only alternatives to EQ however were Shadowbane(rofl), FFXI, DaoC, and some other trash I can't even remember the names of.

WoW comes out, and is a breath of fresh air. Doesen't look horrible, the gameplay is enjoyable, it was fantasy based(mostly, until they started adding stupid crap like the space goats), and had a pvp system that worked for the most part. Even past the "new game" stage, I enjoyed myself quite alot.

As for WAR:
I did one of the public quests entirely until I was capped on whatever the currency was you used to buy the items(I got a 2hander I think). I didnt do RVR(didnt stay interested long enough to do anything but uninstall and I havent looked back), I played it long enough to get my Chosen to level 8 or 10 or somewhere around there(btw their class abilities are rather uninteresting. The skill system reminded me of Guild Wars).

Yes, I can and will judge a game based on the first 20 levels. If you design a game where the majority of the game is terrible, and focus on making the last 5% of your content worthwhile, you failed. Most games dont let people create a character and immediately jump into the end-game. You have to play it first. WAR does not play well.
Somehow trading NPCS for players wouldnt improve the experience for me, it's still not enjoyable.

If you really think WAR is best because of what RVR provides, they should have just skipped the PVE and let people jump right into the action. It wouldnt have improved my opinion at all, but then I could gladly say I did everything that WAR has to offer.

People burned out on WoW and thinking WAR will replace WoW for you, it will not. It will be another Age of Conan that will keep your attention for a couple months at best. A few of you may enjoy it and stick with it until it dies(Hi people who still play EQ) and thats fine. You will likely buy it anyway.

If you really enjoy WAR thats fine, but it's going to be a niche game. Most people who buy it probably wont stay more than a couple months.

Nisses

Apokx:

Seems from your input that the part of the game that I played has hardly changed in the last year.
I agree 100% that they need to make the game itself fun and engaging, not just the endgame.

Why would I want to buy a game and then have to spend 50+ hours "working" my way through it before I can actually enjoy it?
To learn to play the character? Control is roughly the same in every MMO and so are the skills.

Either give the option to skip it, or make it enjoyable.

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Zeraph

I like to hold my opinion until it's out, but I'll definitely be looking into it. I like mythic, and I like WH.

Anxst

Well, they announced 09/18/08 as the release date, and as a CE preorder person I gte into the closed beta sometime next week. The NDA is set to come down shortly after, and once it does I'll write up a full review here.

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Raptor20561

sounds good! hope this game lives up to the hype. My friend says the only reason they're rushing the release now is because of the popularity of WoW

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Catdaddy33

I am interested in the game, but will probably wait until the game has been out a couple of months before making a decision to buy or not. I'm still cooling the burn that I got from Age of Conan earlier this year.

Seaver

My money would be on the fact that it was originally geared to be released almost a year ago and the purse strings are being tightened.

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Catdaddy33

I'd say it's a mix of both $$ and trying to beat the WoW expansion to release.

Anxst

At least it's not like when DAoC released, which was entirely based on the fact that they ran out of money.

Also, the Beta testers can't say much, but they did say that in the last 2 weeks, significant changes were made to many things that made the overall play experience at least on par with WoW right off the bat.

I'll give a full report on how my Beta Test went, since I start the closed Beta next week, once the NDA drops.

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Vizzini

NDA is supposed to drop tomorrow.
Finally get to hear from all the testers if this game is worth looking at seriously.

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CyCo PL

I really hate how they're pimping their beta as an "open beta" when it's only available to pre-order customers. That is not an open beta... as someone who betatested Asheron's Call, Anarchy Online, Asheron's Call 2, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Auto Assault, Final Fantasy XI, World of Warcraft, Tabula Rasa, City of Heroes, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, Lord of the Rings Online, and a bunch of crappy asian MMO's, I find it rather insulting that Mythic would try to pass this off as an "open beta".

I think I'm just gonna skip this one completely.

Vizzini

I agree about the open beta. I have no intention of pre-ordering until after release when I hear how well it is doing. However I certainly am not going to drop the game because of such a minor thing.
Now with the NDA lifted, a lot of videos are starting to come out and I have to say this looks a lot more interesting than I originally thought. Graphics are quite nice as well.

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Anxst

So, I've been beta testing on and off for just over a week now. I'll admit, I've been working overtime, so I haven't had a ton of time lately, but here are my impressions.

The IP: I played the tabletop game for years, used to be a White Dwarf subscriber, the whole deal. I feel they really brought the overall feel of the tabletop to their world. Everything is dark and grity, the styles are there, and the humor is there. Great job here.

The graphics: Stylized, but not cartoonish. The beta client graphics are locked at the lowest settings, and the game still looks awful damn good.

The combat: About the same as WoW, and I never had any beefs with WoWs combat system. Just before I started beta testing a number of patches went in that supposedly made the combat feel more responsive, and I guess they worked, as everything feels pretty tight here.

The animations: Hot or miss. Some things look smooth as butter and work so well for what you're doing. Others look like crap. However, some of these have been changed even during the week I've been playing, so I think the last of these are being implemented over this last month, and the bad looking ones are still placeholders.

The RvR: Even at low levels, the scenarios are a hell of a lot of fun. It takes some time to actually kill someone, and working together is a must, even if it's just 'follow me, I'll lead the way' so you all stay together. I'm only rank 10 on my highest character, but everything still seems quite balanced at this point. Healers are hard to kill, but take some time to kill you, same with tanks. DPS is the usual. Witch Hunters are a pain just because they have a high damage snare early on, but I see most classes get that by level 15, so it's just a minor disparity at this point.

The PQs: Fantastic! The only drawbacks are if they're overcrowded, everything dies so fast it's hard to contribute. However, they cycle over super fast then. If they're underpopulated, you get a ton of contribution, but they take quite a while. If you're trying to solo one, you can really only do the first stage. However, even a group of 6 can finish one, and it's easy to call for people to give you a hand with them.

The quests: Well written, no quest bugs encountered yet. The stories they tell are really well done. The UI thing on the map that shows the general area that the quest item/mob/next NPC can be found in is freaking brilliant, and can be turned off for those who want to explore everything themselves.

The UI: It does all the things I ever downloaded/wrote UI Mods for in WoW right out of the box. And it's in LUA for the most part, so I can change or download stuff for it in the future if I so desire.

Overall, I give it a big thumbs up. It could use another month of polish to really come roaring out of the gate, but I'd say it seems at least as well done as WoW was during the final month of their closed beta. I'll be keeping my CE pre order.

And yes, I do agree that Mythic's idea of an 'Open Beta' is crap. They've posted their reasons for it, but I really think they should call it something besides an open beta.

If you have any questions about my play experience, ask away!

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CyCo PL

Wait a sec, the beta client is locked at the lowest graphical settings? So they're not testing the graphics at all? Is this even a test or just a glorified demo?

Anxst

Yes, the beta client is currently locked at the lowest graphical settings....for most of us. The 'Elder Beta Testers' are testing the main client.

The reason for this is because few of our computers could run the game, with the heavy logging/debugging they have going on with the client for the testers, at anything beyond what they've given us, without seeing noticeable slowdown.

They did have all our dxdiag info, after all.

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JamesB

I've been in the closed beta for some time now and just sat on my opinion to get a fair feel of the game before commenting.

My experiences with MMOs started with Ultima Online (god I miss that game.. it was fucking incredible despite its simple mechanics and ultra low-grade graphics). Vas Flam anyone? I then left the MMO world for a few years and jumped into WoW the day it came out. After losing a few years of my life to WoW (hardcore raiding) I lost interest in the game all together. WoW will always have a special place in my heart just as UO does, however, it became lackluster quickly. With the changes to WoW that are coming out with the next expansion, the forces that pushed me from WoW grow stronger.

As soon as I heard about the WAR MMO coming out, I jumped on the beta band-wagon as soon as they would allow me. What appeals to me the most is the fact that they have learned from all of the WoW mistakes and have addressed them in their own way. No more grinding for quest items, PvP that actually makes sense and requires some modicum of skill (minus the rank 10, RR 6 gear bug). Having leveled a number of characters of varying classes up, I thoroughly enjoyed every minute of play.

Imagine gaining XP for killing a PC! And additional XP for RvR (pvp) quest objectives. Combine the "queue in for RvR from anywhere" feature with the PVE (player versus environment) questing/leveling and you get a very nice variety of ways to level. Oh, and you can loot the opposing faction for decent gear (though you do not get their actual gear like the good old UO).

I honestly do not see what all the complainers / naysayers are griping about, but that is just fine - it is their opinion and I will not try to understand or change it. Its just a shame that they were unable to enjoy a superior game .

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highdro69

i have a question for all the WAR beta-ers out there: would you call WAR WoW with better PvP or DAoC with better PvE?

Anxst

It's neither, really. If those were my only two choices, I'd say WoW with better PvP. At this point, I'd say it's that polished. I'm playing the Preview Weekend+ right now, and the game is a phenomenal step from last preview weekend. They released some (but not the top end) advanced graphic settings to us, and it looks awesome. They had a pathing issue that's fixed, they added a bit to the 'slop' timer for actions so you have more leeway before you get an 'action not ready' message.

It's just a damned fun time.

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Apokx

It is not WoW in any shape or form besides what they tried to copy.

Seaver

As I've said before, they took the best parts of WoW and improved upon. They took the best parts of DAoC and evolved beyond. They took the worst parts of both and either A) got rid of, or B) evolved beyond.

For example, the no-excuses #1 WoW problem for me was the PvP. PvP was all I cared about, yet as Alliance we had to wait 1.5hrs to join as a group to play. So we had to individual it... with morons (sorry but it's true). This killed PvP, throw into that the /afk people who never had any punishment whatsoever and it was all but unplayable. Being afk in WAR gets you nothing, you have to be in the vacinity of the fighting which means no hiding. Any PvP outside scenarios were pointless, and mostly involved having fun repeatedly killing goldfarmers. They took the keep fights from DAoC, and expanded upon them allowing you to even capture (and throw tomatoes at) the enemy's kings.

The #1 problem with DAoC was the PvE. I never much cared as I'm an RvR/PvP guy... but still. The PvE was never well thought out, boring, and dull. One of the first quests for the Greekskins involve launching yourself in a catapult onto the Dwarf's walls to take the keep. The first public quest involves getting a Giant drunk.

Seriously... first game I found myself laughing while doing quests.

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Apokx

You'd be much better off saying that WAR is its own game. It's not "WoW but better!!" because it doesnt feel, play or look like WoW. The pvp system is different, the way they handle player skills is different.

Stop telling people it's WoW but better in every way because someone is going to try it with expectations and find something completely different. It makes it sound like anyone who enjoyed/enjoys WoW is going to pick up this game and like it, which simply isnt true.

WAR = MMO focused around RVR combat.
WoW = MMO focused around PVE combat with some PVP(optional).

xepherys

Basically they "borrowed" the best aspects of most of the past decade of MMOs, plus added some great new features (I'm digging the Tome of Knowledge). Instanced "scenarios" are pretty impressive as well.

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xepherys

Apokx, I wouldn't leave PvE out in WAR though. I'd say PvE is more prevalent in WAR than PvP is in WoW. PQs are pretty amazing, and an important part of moving up in the game (Area Influence Levels and such).

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Apokx

From WAR's own website, the key features list:

# Realm vs. Realm (RvR) gameplay means you will never fight alone...
# Experience the camaraderie of fighting side-by-side with allied players against otherwise insurmountable odds in groundbreaking Public Quests. These cooperative PvE encounters unfold across multiple stages and allow solo players to experience the glory of RvR.
# Embark on the endless quest to complete the Tome of Knowledge...

They obviously have PVE stuff, but its right before "We have cities!" and "We have guilds!"

WoW's website starts with PVE stuff(locations mostly), with PVP very near the bottom of the list.

Very easy to see what the intent of each game is/was.