bouray

I posted this in General discussion already, but I think it should have been posted here:


I just finished Harry Potter Book 6....I'm not going to leak anything about the story, but I will say that the ending SHOCKED me...I can't believe how dark Rowling went witht the story...Then to even further complicate matters, the revelation of what Harry's intentions are for book 7.

I really didn't imagine the book to take this path on it's way to final conclusion. As you can tell, I didn't want to give anything away about what happened in the book, but if any one else would care to post their opinions, I am interested to hear others thoughts.

Overall, the book was excellent...it provided much insight into the past of Voldemort, but most importantly I think it opened the door for a finale that no one will be able to predict, but everyone will eagerly await.

Pip

I was surprised Snape was so efficient when he... ugh, haven't come over THAT yet. I'd have figured him to gloat a bit, like in the Shrieking Shack scene back in PoA. On the other hand, it makes more sense now that Snapes worst memory ever was the pants thing and not some horible Death Eater stuff. It struck me as a bit odd, that.

On a lighter note, I'm slightly dissapointed that JKR killed the most pointless debate ever to divide the fandom by giving a gender to Blaise Zabini, but I'm glad I was right! Bwahaha!

The cave was a bit overdone, but it'll look damn cool in the movie. Overall, better than OotP, and I look very much forward to the next book!

snowy

Highly excellent. Absolutely shocking.

A couple of my friends who don't read the books wanted to know who died and how--they were just amazed. Flabbergasted.

I have more to say but I'd like to hear more from others first.

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If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

bouray

Yeah, I found it very interesting how Snape did the deed so cold heartedly and seemingly without any thought or remorse. I amazed a couple of my non-reading friends when I gave them a synopsis of this book.

I agree with you Pip about the cave, as I was reading I was saying that this was going to be an excellent scene in the movie, but kind of a little over played.

guthmund

Ugh...Absolute ugh..

Some spoilers....

Spoiler: First of all, let me preface this by saying that I thought the first 2/3 of the book was great. She introduced a couple of new characters, left around some of the old favorites and made Dumbledore a bigger part of the story. Nice progression of the story. Familiar, but with enough new stuff (characters, plot lines, etc..) to prevent being bored. Things were moving on nicely.

Now I understand why Dumbledore had to die. Something had to happen to force Harry's hand concerning Voldemort. As long as Albus Dumbledore was there to protect him, Harry was never going to step up to the plate, so to speak. So, I'm okay with that...really.

It's just the little things.

I don't like Malfoy as a sympathetic character. She's spent 5 books showing us just how snotty little Draco could be, it's a bit late to be changing the character arc to elicit sympathy from the readers.

I understand that love is supposed to be the prevailing theme of this book, but slapping together characters haphazardly (and a bit randomly) doesn't seem to be working. Bill and Fleur; Ron and Lavender; Ron and Hermione; Remus and Nymphadora; blah blah blah...

Which brings me to the biggest disappointment in the whole damn book, Harry himself. As much as I enjoy the angry, angst filled Harry who lashes out at everyone for little reason from the 5th book, I thought he might go the way of the Dodo in this one. The whole ordeal with Ginny is a bit to Spiderman-ish to take seriously. Not to mention incredibly stupid considering the last serious conversation Harry had with Dumbledore was about how the ability to 'love' was the one thing Harry had that Voldemort didn't. I would think, since Harry has decided to seek out Voldemort himself, that he would want to be able to use the one advantage he has over the Dark Lord.

Snape. I think it's ridiculous how that played out. Dumbledore was a wise wizard known for his sharp mind and cleverness. I hardly think it's right that he be duped by Severus Snape. Especially for such a lame ass reason; Snape said he was sorry and I believed him, yuk yuk. Guess I am a doddering old fart. I really hope there's more going on there than it seems.

And last but not least, Vigilante Harry and his roving band of justice. That's all I'll say except to ask if this is really where Rowling is going with this?

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ShaniFaye

I posted this in the other thread, guess I'll put it here too

Spoiler: has anyone besides me stopped to think....what if Dum had one of those horcrux (sp?) things as well? And if he DID and trusted Snape as much as he kept telling Harry..then Snape would know. He said in that final scene with Draco he could make him appear dead to Voldermort...whats to say he could do the same thing to himself? I refuse to believe Snape is bad

Is it just me? am I the only one NOT taking what happened at face value?

I correctly guess both who would die and who HBP was, hehehehe Im so proud.

I thought the book was great, although I really could have done without all the teenage "love" stuff

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ShaniFaye

I just LOVED what ended up to be, to me, a great reason for Tonks to be the way she was!!!

oh and when they are in class with snape the first time and the reason Harry gets detention....that was a GOOD comeback.

This book was SO much better than OOTP to me....I didnt end up mad once...although I did have to go back and read the end of OOTP just to remember a few things I'd forgotten since its been a year since I read it.

I had such a hard time sleeping cause I really wanted to talk to others about the end, and I cant talk to Dave, he reads slower than I do....damn my ability to read super fast

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Gatorade Frost

Spoiler: I sincerely hope that Snape isn't bad.

On the Horcruxes, I'd kind of like to see Potter being the last one. Everyone's asssumed that his scar is what gave him parseltongue, etc. but what if maybe to keep himself around he'd still have that part in Harry because hey, Voldermort can die, all the others can go down, but who's going to kill Potter just to get rid of that last bit of Voldermort? I think it would make an interesting twist.

On the idea of making Dumbledore 'dead' to the world, I think that's just us having false hopes. Dumbledore's pretty much dead as far as I can tell and I hope that she keeps it that way just for the sake of the story.

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I got in a fight one time with a really big guy, and he said, "I'm going to mop the floor with your face." I said, "You'll be sorry." He said, "Oh, yeah? Why?" I said, "Well, you won't be able to get into the corners very well."
Emo Philips

JustJess

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My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

kutulu

Spoiler: There is no way Dumbledore has his own horcrux. To make one, you have to murder someone. This allows you to split your soul in half. Dumbledore may kill in self defense but not murder and he'd never tear his soul apart.

I'm undecided about Snape's true loyalty. JRK is never that straightforward and the greatest wizard ever wouldn't be fooled so easily. It's entirely possible that Dumbledore was pleading not for his life, but for Snape to do what needed to be done. Snapes look of hate before the curse could have been hate for his 'master'

I think Dumbledore knew his time was up and that is the only reason he let Harry know so much.

ShaniFaye

Spoiler: I think Dumby killed someone, I think he killed his "tail", but of course I could be wrong, or there could be a "white" version of the horcrux...or he could be really dead. My point was kinda...well people are shocked but seem to not be thinking past the fact that "snape killed him". I think snapes look of hatred was because of what he had to do, and I think it was a pre arranged plan...thats what Hagrid heard them arguing about. Until I am proved wrong in book 7 there is no way I will believe Snape is "evil" self serving yes, evil no. Why would the last thing he does before he runs off with Malfoy be a final lesson to Harry about keeping his mind shut if he were really on Voldemorts side?


...there are lots of theories around and now we have to wait another 2 years to find out

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

mystmarimatt

Finished it after 6 hours of reading.

Jesus.

Spoiler: As soon as I read Snape using the killing curse on Dumbledore, and confirming my worst fears, I jumped up from the couch, threw the book against the wall, and screamed "AAAGHH. THE WORLD IS FUCKED!!!!!!" It freaked my mom out pretty badly.

Spoiler: However, after calming down, finishing the book, having a good cry and a shower, I thought back over the whole ordeal and realized that the whole death scene had a very "wink-wink, nudge-nudge" feel to it, you know? So I'm suspect.

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Words of Wisdom:

If you could really get to know someone and know that they weren't lying to you, then you would know the world was real. Because you could agree on things, you could compare notes. That must be why people get married or make Art. So they'll be able to really know something and not go insane.

Gatorade Frost

This is entirely random, but it cracked me up as a WoW player:

Harry Potter for Roleplayers -

Level 1 wizard get's invited into a guild, lots of help from the level 60 guild leader. Level 55 warlock's got serious PVP on his mind, wants to take down the level 1, but is stuck in the spirit world. Keeps trying to reach his body but it's camped. Hilarity ensues.

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I got in a fight one time with a really big guy, and he said, "I'm going to mop the floor with your face." I said, "You'll be sorry." He said, "Oh, yeah? Why?" I said, "Well, you won't be able to get into the corners very well."
Emo Philips

Pip

Thanks ShaniFaye, I had totally forgotten about the argument! Time for a bit of re-read and pondering.
Now that I have had time to think things over a bit, I've found some more interesting points. First of all: Spoiler: The Sorting Hat. The four founders have all "put some brains in me" as the Hat says in GoF. Is it in fact a Horcrux?

Also, note the beautiful mirror symmetry of polyjuice usage. In the second book, Crabbe and Goyle were impersonated by polyjuice, in the second-to-last book Crabbe and Goyle are using polyjuice (to impersonate girls, the slash writers are going to have fun with that!) and polyjuice played an important role in the middle book too. I hope there will be no polyjuice in the last book, to make it perfect.

Best sentence of the book:Spoiler: "Harry, however, had never been less interested in Quidditch; he was rapidly becoming obsessed with Draco Malfoy."

t3m3st

Rowling loves to kick back to older things introduced in the beginning. Like the Nicholas Flamel thing The Philosophers Stone, or Fenrir Watshisname at the beginning of this one. Or Bezoars.

Things we skim by and, well, I forget.

So I'm wondering then, if anyone has any idea who this R.A.B. could be... If it's a kickback to something older. Something from the first book maybe, would be cool. Prolly not though...

Also, did anyone else think Voldemort was the HBP? I was so sure.

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Lotronex

Spoiler: Pretty sure RAB is Regulus A. Black, Sirius's brother. On another note, Dumbledore is dead, he wouldn't avoid death. "To the organized mind, death is but a great adventure" or something, my copy of philospher's stone has been missing for years.

Gatorade Frost

I didn't think Sirius had a brother and the only relative was Bellatrix?

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I got in a fight one time with a really big guy, and he said, "I'm going to mop the floor with your face." I said, "You'll be sorry." He said, "Oh, yeah? Why?" I said, "Well, you won't be able to get into the corners very well."
Emo Philips

t3m3st

Regulus is dead.

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I do it for the rare drops

rhaevyn

I love Snape, so I just can't believe he's bad lol Like someone said, it just seems that it was too simple for Snape to have duped Dumbledore like that. I think it's a set-up of some sort.

As to the Blaise Zabini thing, I'm glad the gender is cleared up. And Lupin/Tonks, I like that setup. I actually wondered if that might happen.

In general, I liked the book, but the Snape thing made me want to throw the book against the wall.

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~Alex~

You've come far, and though you're far from the end, you don't mind where you are, 'cause you know where you've been.

Lotronex

Spoiler: Yes, Regulus is dead, and the note indicates that the author is probably dead aswell. We have no idea how old that note is. Regulus might have destroyed the horcrux, then attempted to leave the Death Eaters

Ishmal

my thoughts exactly...

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"Despite the high cost of living, it remains popular."

guthmund

Spoiler: Regulus was the first one I thought of when that note popped up. If I remember correctly, they mention him a few times earlier on in the book don't they? Dumbledore implies that the Order can hide just about anybody and hide them well when he's talking to Draco at the top of the tower. What if Regulus isn't really gone?

Second, and not to harp on it, but thing that's really been bothering me about the death of Dumbledore since I finished it Saturday is that she uses the word 'pleading.' Dumbledore 'pleads' with Severus. The only conclusion I can come to, and this should make Shani happy to know that someone else is in her boat , is that Snape really isn't the bad guy.

Seriously, I've thought about this off and on for two days know...

I think Dumbledore knew he was going to die. I think he knew it well before he went into the cave and that's why he was so nonchalant about the danger. Remember he's already lost his right arm while finding something similiar, yet, in the cave, he jumps in the boat, guides it across the lake, and has himself a drink. Just the casual way Dumbledore handled the cave makes me suspect he probably knew what was going to happen before he even left Hogwarts.

Not good enough? How about on the way back he asks for Snape twice. He corrects Harry (who wants to get Madame Pomfrey, remember?) twice and tells him it's Severus he wants, no questions asked.

Third and this one really cinches it for me. Why did Dumbledore bother to 'freeze' Harry? He's under his invisibility cloak, he's relatively safe. Harry could have easily handled Draco alone. The two of them, remember the one wizard Voldemort feared and the boy who has beaten him 3 times now and lived to tell the tale, could have handled Draco, the two Death Eaters and Fenrir, right? I mean, in the OotP, Dumbledore manages to hold off Voldemort himself and still had a little oomph left to mess with another witch (it was Bellatrix, right?) in the lobby of the Ministry. Surely he and Harry could have held off the four...especially with Draco's confidence questioned.

All of this means that Dumbledore needed to let Harry watch him die and he needed Harry to live afterwards. That's the only reason I can come up with to explain why Dumbledore froze Harry. Snape came into the picture and quickly surveyed the scene. Rowling seems to stay very neutral about Snape when he shows up. The reader isn't all that sure which side Severus is going to come down on, until Dumbledore 'pleads' with Severus. Kutulu, I think, hits the nail square when he says that Dumbledore is pleading with Severus to do what must be done and kill him.

I don't think Dumbledore is coming back, but I definitely think there's more to the story than what's in that single chapter. Maybe Dumbledore has a prophecy of his own that had to be fulfilled to bring down the Dark Lord? That would explain the little tirade he went off on about prophecies when he was instructing Harry earlier in the book. Rowling always seems to have a reason later on for mentioning things previously.

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Zeraph

Note: spoilers.

I really liked it, better than book 5. All the parts except one made sense, which will probably be explained in book 7. The fact that Harry has an equivelence of grade 11 (high school) education, and he's going to go up against someone with a doctorate, if I were him I'd be a lot more interested in learning more (from school or the order) as snape really kicked his ass and he doesn't even have as much power as Voldemort.

And that just made me think of another thing, he didn't even use that septumsemptora spell on those death eaters because apparently it was too dark...but how does he expect to kill Voldemort? Stun him to death? Ah that reminded me of another thing I read
"There was a dark wizard in medieval times named Voldermortist. In another language, Voldermortist means "Lord of Evil" or "Dark Lord". Legend has it that Voldermortist once tried to destroy Merlin before the time of King Arthur (Mr. Weasley?), by bewitching good people, and simply bribing those who already were evil. Legend has it that Merlin destroyed Voldermortist by using a simple paralyzing charm (full body bind?), fed him to the many-headed-beast (Fluffy?) of the lake, the Lady of the Lake's pet (Giant Squid?), freed the bewitched people, and destroyed the evil men. That was maybe twelve, thirteen years before Arthur (how long it was from Voldemort's destruction until Harry started Hogwarts). In many European languages 'mort' or 'mord' refer to death or evil. In French, Voldemort means "flight of death" (meaning escaping death.)"

In regards to RAB, maybe I forgot, but wasn't Regulus rather weak? I don't think he'd be the first one to uncover Volds horcrux. Plus, how would he know about that cave?

I wrote a lot of reasons why I think Dumbledore's dead for good, but I'll just leave it at my opinion, as it was disjointed.

Snape could be good or bad still, I think there is equal chance for either. At the end, I think Dumbledore was begging for Snape to kill him, to keep up his cover, rather than for his life, as I don't see him as one to fear death. Dumbledore also hinted that he didn't have much time left through out the book, so he may have suspected this would happen (I also think he talked to Malfoy about the plot for Harry's sake.)

EDIT: Forgot one thing, Harry can't be a horcrux as when Vold tried to posses him in book 5 he couldn't stand it for more than a few seconds, so there's no way his soul could reside in him.

BenChuy

I believe he still could be the last one. How does he get stronger? Possibly by reclaiming his soul bits. But, as pointed out, he has problems because of HPs ability to love.

kutulu

Harry cannot be the last horcrux. LV was going to make him the victim to make the 6th and final horcrux (with LV's remaining soul being the 7th piece) but he couldn't kill Harry. The snake became the final horcrux.

Ishmal

that was my understanding...

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"Despite the high cost of living, it remains popular."

fallsauce

Wow! What an ending! so much better than OOTP, a bit heavy on the kissing, but the light atmosphere made the ending even more shocking.

I'm convinced it's Regulus Black, (mostly because I can't think of any other person with those initials.)

Snape. I'm sceptical. I'm thinking it may have been the Unbreakable Vow, but then again, he's living with Wormtail, (not that that means much, what does 'assistant' mean?)

Malfoy. Poor baby. I also foresee many Draco/Harry fanfics in the future.

Dumbledore. I keep expecting it to be revealed that Dumbledore was a fake, because he kept going on and on about his intellect and being all secretive about his hand. But I couldn't really believe that because... well, he's *Dumbledore*.

I was feeling shocked and depressed by the end of it. Shocked because of what happened, and depressed because of Harry's implications of his future. (I'd also read Artemis Fowl: The Opal Deception the day before, and that had a few major changes as well...) Everyone's growing up...

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You could have a following in every town that you go"
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Ishmal

good series that!!!

anyway,

back to HP&HBP

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"Despite the high cost of living, it remains popular."

Ishmal

good series that!!!

anyway,

back to HP&HBP...

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"Despite the high cost of living, it remains popular."

Lasereth

Just finished it. Some mother fucking idiot on the Internet purposely ruined the ending for me so I knew what was gonna happen the entire time.

Spoiler: It didn't ruin the book, but there was absolutely no shock factor when Snape turned out to be a bad guy and especially when he killed Dumbledore. I wish I could go back in time and not have seen the spoiler...some people are simply childish fuckwits that are out to ruin other's entertainment. Dozens of places on the Internet have ruined the ending already. Hell, there's a website out right now that's sole purpose is to ruin the ending to people who haven't read it yet.

Besides the ending being ruined, I honestly don't know what to think about this book. If I hadn't known the ending, I would have thought "where's the actual story at?" towards the end, which would have been really cool (I liked how in OotP you didn't really get what the book was about until halfway or more through...kept suspense up). Instead, I knew it was just trying to setup a mood that would be dramatically changed at the end. The more I think about it, the more I realize that this book's experience was basically entirely ruined for me by the idiots that spoiled the ending. It was like I had already read the book.

The horcruxes are a really cool idea. When Dumbledore and Harry went after the one at the coast, Rowling's writing was really put to the test, and thankfully succeeded. I was down right creeped out during the potion feeding part with the Inferi.

Somehow I knew that the seventh book wouldn't take place in Hogwarts. I remember thinking that the last book would be tracking down Voldemort after I read the second one.

The funeral scene was done pretty nicely. It was nice and emotional.

I don't have a problem with Dumbledore dying...I recall believing that it was gonna happen in the series early on as well. I just hate how it was ruined for me. I like how Snape is a true Death Eater...it would actually be a cop out to leave him as a "good guy." It's a nice change of pace to see the mean bastard in the series actually turn out to be deserving of the mean bastard label.

Some are saying the Malfoy character is ruined by this book because he's not mean enough to Harry. Well..let's see, he's been ordered by Lord Voldemort to KILL Dumbledore and let Death Eaters enter the castle. Does he really have time to be mean to Harry?

A very well written book that would have been much better had I not known the ending from the start. Fuck the internet dickwads that like to ruin books for people. I can't wait for the seventh book of which I will read in a padded cell, completely shut out from the outside world that is filled with purposeful spoilers.

-Lasereth

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"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

ChistledStone

Agreed - Anyway as you said 'back to HP' here's my (published) review.

And thinking about the Regulus Black things - Does anyone else think conspiracy? Maybe the Dark Lord has some plans that we don't know about yet. Maybe he isn't as weak as we suspect, but rather one of the higher ranked people in the Death Eaters - so important that Lord Voldemort thinks that he would be better to be his property only.

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A.minor.fall.then.a.major.lift

DazednConfused

Spoiler: I was totally shocked by the ending of the book. I really forgot for some odd reason that someone was supposed to die in this book.

The thing I haven't read here and don't know if anyone has thought about it, but Dumbledore will still be around. At the end of the story when Harry went to Dumbldore's office with McGonagall, JK wrote that "Dumbledore was slumbering in a golden frame over the desk, his half-moon spectacles perched upon his crooked nose, looking peaceful and untroubled." This seems like an excellent way to keep Dumbledore involved in the story running between his frame and one at the Ministry of Magic or to 12 Grimmauld Place or anywhere. So I don't feel so bad about Dumbledore being dead, because he isn't really. He is still going to be able to be a character, only now he will only be acting through his frame. (If it works out that way)

The whole thing about Snape really confises me. I don't see what Snape could have done or said to make Dumbledore trust him so implicitly. I hope that is something that we find out. Maybe another Penseive moment?

Well, I liked the book. It wasn't as good as some of her previous books, but I still liked it. And I also liked the relationship between Lupin and Tonks. I just think they make a good pair for some reason. Anyway, my $0.02 about it.

spindles

I thought this book was pretty slow in the middle section.

Spoiler: Well, I personally think Snape will end up as a good guy. I'll bet that dumbledore took a fall so that Snape can stay buried in Voldemort's confidences. I also think that he will save Harry's butt in the next book.

I was convinced fairly early on that it would be Dumbledore who died - just a lucky guess I suppose.

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Mr.Deflok

Regarding the speculation that Regulus is in fact R.A.B due to the Order's ability to hide people indefinately... Why would Dumbledore seek out a Horcrux that has already been got to and make Harry read a note which was intended solely for the Dark Lord's eyes only?

Regulus is either a) DEAD or b) acting on his own unknown whim secretive from both the eyes of the Order and the Death Eaters.

I'm gutted we have to wait so long for the next book. Why couldn't she have done a Matrix/Kill Bill?

djflish

Just finished it! And I'm not gonna use spoiler tags, cause if you've got this far then you don't care about knowing!
I enjoyed it, more than OotP. It wasn't as infuriating as OotP, I just wanted to give Harry a slap and say 'SHADDUP!!'

I agree that Dumbledore knew he was going to die and that it was planned for Snape to kill him. I've just got this feeling that it isn't the last time he's going to be aiding Harry. Like he's going to make a Gandalf like come-back, or be an Obi-Wan like ghostly presence, whispering in Harry's ear.

I was shocked that he decided not to go back to school. I mean, he couldn't even get Snape with a spell, so I don't see how he can get Voldemort without more training.

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I know which one I prefer.

spindles

Maybe he gets training from someone outside school.

I also think they will find some of Dumbledore's memories that they can use in the pensieve.

If it is Regulus, then he has to be dead, otherwise Harry could not have inherited Kreacher etc. from Sirius. It does not mean has hasn't taken the Horcrux and hidden it - speculation that it is in the black house has been mentioned.

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Rubyee

Spoilers!!!:

Bear with me- I only picked up this series a couple of weeks ago.

Personally, I liked OotP better. It had more to it, I thought.

I think Dumbledore is dead. Dead dead. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that he A) knows that he is no match for Voldemort again, B) knows that by being alive, he holds Harry back because Harry is used to being protected and taken care of, and C) knows that by staying alive he makes things worse for everyone else- Voldemort cannot get to the top with Dumbledore around, so he will make everyone else's life a living hell. Also, I don't think that Dumbledore has a horcrux, because until Harry got the unmodified memory from Slughorn, he didn't know what they were, really.

I could be wrong.

You all have very interesting views on Snape. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he did have a plan with Dumbledore. I had completely forgotten about the arguement. But what confuses me is how Voldemort didn't suspect him of being a traitor if he does turn out to be a good guy. You think he would notice something like that.

I really do like these books, but there are a few things that bother me. The whole school structure confuses me. Hagrid was expelled, so his wand was broken and he was not permitted to use magic (though his wand is now his umbrella and he still uses magic). But Fred and George drop out and start their own business and are perfectly capable of using magic all the time. Little things like this really get me.

Also, it seems that JKR is toying with Harry's personality a lot. He seems to be very unstable- more so than someone in his position. I don't know if she does it on purpose, or forgets what he is like from book to book, or just doesn't know how to make the points she wants to make. Or maybe I am imagining things. Who knows.

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ShaniFaye

Its different with Fred and George....they werent kicked out...the quit when they had come of age. when they turned 17 they were free to do what they wanted to withoug reprecussions of not being able to use magic.

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

djflish

Yeah, maybe the ghost of Dumbledore will tell Harry to visit a 2ft green wizard in a swamp somewhere who will train him further.

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Europes two great narcotics, Alcohol and Christianity.
I know which one I prefer.

FoolThemAll

Isn't Snape supposed to be very skilled in Occlumency?

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