I have to agree, this show was fantastic at first. Now it does seem like the X-files or one of the sci-fi channels terrible movies. Is everyone going to end up being be a cylon??? P-lease!

There can only be 12 cylons, so we only have 1 to go.

Did anyone else see the ship of lights at the end in space? I could have sworn I saw something during the second airing.

I didn't delete if from TiVo yet. I will check, but I will say that Starbuck's Viper looked awfully white. . .

BTW, didn't she die like 30 minutes ago in BSG time?

It had to be several days, because of the trial, right?

So are the cylons channeling Bob Dylan or is the Earth they are searching for our Earth? Maybe they were picking up an oldies station.

Unless the writers change the story. Maybe we'll see some new models....hmmmm.....12 new models would be quite the spin.:)

No, it was several day to several weeks.
The seraphs weren't cylons.

I'm still not sure Starbuck is corporeal yet. She might just be inside Apollo's brain for the moment, a la Six in Baltar's.

I'd not mind seeing Starbuck in the red dress...

But didn't they see her on dradous (sp)

Bleh. Are you kidding? The show was OK in the beginning. So many characters underdeveloped, and a cliche robot storyline made it middle of the road. But now its easily one of the best shows on TV.

So Starbuck is the 5th cylon right?

As far as the song All along the watchtower I think that was programmed into them when they were first created so that when the get near earth they could figure it out. (all to fulfill some sort of destiny)

does anyone know where I can re listen to the new one they used in the show? I checked youtube and nothing. Though interestingly there was the original with a montage of the early scenes when they escaped new caprica. EVeryone's calling him a cylon, pretty funny. (just do a search for BSG and all along the watchtower)

I say madame president due to the link she has with the other two cylons

We don't know who the fifth cylon is. It could be Laura, it could be Kara. It could be anyone.

The full version will be released with the BSG season 3 OST. I'll let you know when I get it.

There are now two half breed children. The Chief's son, and Halo's Daughter. No wonder he is sickly also.

I'm not sure they're cylons. I mean, how the fuck did they get there in the 1st place? the others don't even know about them. it's like there was a 3rd party controlling everyone. earthlings maybe?

I took a look at it. It seems that it is just the way they drew the stars or whatever in the cloud thing (nebula?). I don't think it is a / the ship of light. They are sort of stretched Hypocycloid shapes if I am looking at the right thing right?

When I said 30 minutes - I was kidding. I was just saying, if you are killing her off to bring her back, do it when we least expect it. Everyone knew they would see her out there as soon as you saw the unknown ship on the dradis (if not before). I mean just think about when the Russian from the Pine Barrons comes back to kill off Christopher Maltosanti outside the Bada Bing in Season 7. Now THAT is how it is done.

/stop me before i sub-reference again. . .
//yes I quoted myself - sue me it was easier. . .

I think that, in many cases, people destroy a thing with their expectations.

Christopher Maltosanti is dead? The Russian is alive? %#$^%$@!

Seriously - that's a major spoiler for me!

Easy guys. I made it up. Just saying - the Russian is out of everyone's minds now and to have him come back all of a sudden would be crazy. That would have been a cooler way to handle Starbuck than having her "die" for just a little while and then come right back. Sheesh.

Ok - now what if it HAPPENS!!!! Then I would be too cool for school!

Maybe I'm not reading all the posts or I'm not going to the same sites as you guys are, but we're all going on the notion that those four people (Tigh, Chief, Tory and Anders) are cylons? 'Cause from what I saw, the only person who said it out loud was Chief.

Let's take Tigh as the best example. Do Cylons age? How is it possible that Adama has known this guy for some twenty years? I thought the Cylons looked more like the OG Cylons at that time. When they went away, after the Cylon war, they created the human looking 12. Tigh doesn't fit.

Every radio signal, every TV signal, we've ever sent is out there in the cosmos right now. (Remember "Contact?" How the initial message from the other world comes wrapped in the transmission they recieved from us? Footage of Hitler?) Is it possible that the Gallactica resonates this signal, "All Along the Watchtower" and that these four folks are the only one who hear it? Or at least are the only ones to admit it? That it's a radio signal from earth?

Anyway, that's how I'm going to get through the next several months till I get a new episode. Chief is not a cylon and Starbuck is not dead. I'll just keep repeating it over and over.

Chief is not a cylon and Starbuck is not dead.
Chief is not a cylon and Starbuck is not dead.
Chief is not a cylon and Starbuck is not dead. :)

uhh? what's this Russian thing? did i miss something?

The other 5 cylons clearly are different than the 7, so we can't say for sure they can't age. We don't know if they are even from after the war. There seems to be a connection between the final 5 and Earth, so they could be 3000 years old. It could be that the cylons were built also by the 13th colony, or they could have time travel.

I do like the idea that the 4 are actually earthlings, and they are close enough to earth to pick up old radio transmissions and they are remembering their childhood on Earth. That would be very interesting.

I have a completely unsubstantiated theory: The four are prophets of some sort--as is Baltar. Remember how Chief was acting in the temple?

Plus, there's waaaaay too much story to pump to reveal 4 of the 5 remaining Cylons all at once. And to "wake" them up with a Jimi Hendriks song?!? It's a great song, but it doesn't transcend time and space, eh?

I would be disappointed if they played 4 of the 5 cylon cards like that in one short hand.

I'm with Sultana - not Cylons, but different.

wow have never thought about it that way, but you might be on to something there Sultana

definitely. the 5 remaining cylons are special and to have random characters show up as the remaing 5s is just lame. Chief, tigh are special enough but anders and the girl are new and not that special. why would they be random like that?

also, I'm pretty interested in knowing how starbuck survived the explosion and where she was for the last few weeks. did she find a house or something where there was food? washroom? bed? ...

and why are the cylons traveling with starbuck in the last scene?

Oh it it going to be a long wait 'til 2008. I remain optimistic for season 4. I still can't figure out what got resolved at the end of season three other than Baltar. Which sort of puts us right back to the beginning with him. The worst humanity has to offer cloaked in the guise of intelligence.

Despite Moore's insistence to the contrary, I really don't think that Tigh, Tyrol, Anders, and Tory are cylons. I also like the idea that they're earthlings. They could be more sensitive to picking up an earth radio wave in some way, through dental fillings or whatever, and it would explain why they feel a sense of memories of their childhood when they hear an earth song. Perhaps the Seraphs (god like beings in the original series) are aware of both the earthlings and the colonies and want to help reunite them. So, the Seraphs kidnap five earth children and bring them to the colonies and guide their lives to end up in strategic positions to help bring the colonies to earth. We know where the four revealed "cylons" end up, and it fits for Starbuck as well. Her mother knows she's "special," perhaps she knows about the Seraph's and their plan as she wwould have been given Starbuck as a young child. Since the Seraphs are watching over the five earthlings, they saved Starbuck right before her ship exploded and brought her to earth, and now brought her back to the fleet to guide them there as well. So the "different-ness" that Tigh, Tyrol, Anders, and Tory are experiencing is their earthling genes, not being cylons.

Now if the Seraphs are brought in, there's a Count Iblis figure to introduce as well. (an evil Seraph form the original series) Perhaps he didn't agree with the other Seraphs that the colonies should be reunited, so he influenced the creation of the cylons to interfere with that plan. The "one god" that they follow is really him. He would know about these "five earthlings," but perhaps he doesn't know who they are. Thus the cylons know there are five "special models," but don't know what they look likeor anything about them. Because those five aren't actually cylons at all, but earthlings.

Also, the more religious members of the colonies somehow tap into the Seraphs consciousness or whatever and come up with prophecies and religious documents based on the pieces they gather. Therefore the colonies have many gods, i.e. the Seraphs, and it would make sense that they would have five priests, being the five earthlings who will lead them home, and prophecies which also help lead them home as well.

Or I'm thinking way too hard about this. :lol:

Ono - nice work there...

I'm going to back way up and point out that the only evidence from the show that those 4 are cylons is them jumping to a conclusion. "Different" doesn't have to equal cylon. It's just the only thing those guys can think of.

I'm liking your theory of the 5 cylons being earthlings more and more ono... It doesn't make sense for them to be real cylons and for the original 7 skinjobs to not know more about them. I mean, cylon history is what, 40-60 years at this point?

*does happy dance at finding the BSG thread*

I, too, refuse to look at Chief, Colonel Tigh, Tori and Anders as cylons. It's weird. I read the interview with Moore (?) and could see - sorta - why they'd say these people are cylons but I still like the prophet theory better.

Though, each theory has holes in it IMO. Cause Starbuck is a prophet and Baltar is a what? There's only 5 prophets and 5 final cylons. Oh - just realized this. Does Madam President count as a prophet already?

edit: just saw uber's post. I remember that in the interview these four are noted as being fundamentally different cylons.... maybe they are half earthling half cylon? :paranoid:

Bear McCreary's blog entry for the finale indicates that it's unlikely that the four revealed cylons are picking up any radio waves from earth.I'm guessing that the final five being different has a lot to do with something Leoben said in season 1, episode 8, "Flesh and Bone." Rather than saying cylons were created by humans, he insisted that god created the cylons. Maybe that's more true than we realize. (I just happened to come across that today)

So as I saw it there were three reveals in the finale.

1. Baltar's verdict.
2. New Cylons.
3. Kara's return.

The first reveal was fine, and unsurprising. A guilty verdict would have meant the death of the character, and they're not going to do that. The second reveal was the most interesting, especially, as japhyryder pointed out, the chief because of his offspring. The final reveal was garbage.

It was timid to bring her back. Even if she's just a voice in Lee's head like the Six/Baltar connection...ugh, god. I find it so frustrating.

I thought Starbuck's return was completely obvious. I mean, that was basically the lamest death - there wasn't really even any emotional payoff for any of the other characters. If you're gonna get rid of a major character like Starbuck, you do it in a way that makes it worth it - not completely packaged from start to finish within 2 episodes.

I would have been more satisfied by Starbuck's return had Maelstrom been a better episode. As it stands, it was rather predictable - and not in the "I know this is going to happen, and I can't wait to see it" way.

That said, I don't think her return in and of itself is a bad decision. The arc was just executed quite poorly. Aside for that, I really enjoyed the finale.

As a side note, I was sooooooooooooo happy to see Baltar immediately slip right back into his overconfident ways after being acquitted :D

You have to give it to Ron Moore and BSG, they know how to do season finales. Other shows like Lost and Grey's Anatomy could learn a lot from BSG. My god the message boards all over the internet lit up after that episode.

First off, Onodrim, very thought provoking post. I really like the way you are heading there. That kind of thing is what makes the show so fun. You can really talk about possibilities and take them in lots of directions. That being said - I kind of want them to be cylons. I think they are based on their reactions and I don't know any way around it, but either way, nice theory.

As an add in, I paticularly liked how Anders was all "stay the frak away from me!" to the gal he was banging a few hours earlier because she is a Cylon. Nice.

Also, it was interesting to see the trainee pilot's little heart break when she saw Anders with her. Poor thing.

On to the real reason for my post:


While this is already done, there is a flaw that I thought interesting. I have found in life that there is no such thing as a contradiction, only a problem with your premises. A few episodes earlier Moore made it painfully clear that a human could survive being tossed out an airlock. Imagine for a second how we would be reacting to a Cylon ship jumping in as the airlock opened, grabbing Baltar and jumping out! We would have all gone collectively NUTS!!! I expect no less from Moore, although in the end, I agree that the path he took was pretty predictable. 1 and 3 were scripted as soon as Starbuck "died" and Baltar was "recaptured".

As for Baltar's future: what do they say about a Woman's scorn? I think Baltar will piss off Caprica Six (in custody) and that will not go well. She may become an ally to the fleet much like Athena has and turn on that traitorous bastard.

I still can't get my head around what I consider to be the most important part of the episode: Laura, Athena, and Caprica Six were sharing the visions. Christ, that's unbelievable. We all knew that Six, Hera and the president had a connection to this vision and the ultimate destiny of the hybrid, but this is taking things in a new direction. This is giving corporeal meaning to the non-corporeal people and environments.

Saw this in a Fark thread today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7da3iwxMUjU

Aside from being a pretty cool edit (that's the most exciting episode of BSG ever) the fact that the poster chose the right music four months ago is amusing.

Mondak: that's true, although I think it would have been even more hacky than Kara's return. For them to jump in at the exact moment would indicate that the Cylons know where the fleet is at any given moment.

Will, that's true, and we're all overlooking that. I frankly don't know what to make of it at all.

One thing that struck me about the four is that they are all "supports" to main chars: Tigh to Adama, Anders to Starbuck, Tory to Laura...Chief to? Hmm. Anyone?

So have we decided that Leoben was lying when he told Roslyn that Adama is a cylon?