Wyodiver33

I live in South Florida. I have noticed more and more commercial in Spanish. Since Comcast jacks the volume of commercials by at least 30%, having somebody all of the sudden screaming at me in Spanish is very jarring. I am not anti-hispanic. But I get like 8 Spanish channels. For those that don't speak English, why are they not watching those channels? And for the Hispanics that are watching English-language channels, why would there be a need for Spanish-language commercial. To me it's very, very annoying. Does this happen in the northern US?

Thoughts on this?

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LoganSnake

I've been watching midwestern TV for 12 years and it has never happened. Spanish commercials stay on spanish channels.

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Wyodiver33

LoganSnake, thanks for the reply. That's one of things I was wondering about. Obviously, South Florida has a large Hispanic population. Again, I want to stress that I'm not anti-Hispanic. But it seems more and more like I'm expected to learn Spanish to live here. I have been thinking about learning Spanish for a while but it shouldn't be Expected of me. Florida, Texas, Arizona, California are US States. If people want to come to the USA I expect them to learn English. If I moved to Italy I would learn Italian as quickly as I could. I wouldn't expect Italian TV to air commercials in English.

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Jetée

I'm not sure how to tackle how your examples because to me, reading them aloud, they seem inane in their description and questioning--persnickety as to why doesn't the consumer stick to channels and shows they can understand, as if it might be their fault you are noticing more of these Spanish spots--but as a whole:

Comcast / Cox / Verizon any company along these lines (not so much the satellite providers, though); they know their demographic, very well, and if they can better advertise to a very large group of their consumers (the Latino market, and it is a massive market in South Florida, all along the Eastern coast, and a majority of the Sunbelt) then they will run advertisement spots that will make their targeted audience feel more at ease, and utilizing their native language is an effective tool to instantly capture their attention (assuming the consumer who pays for cable subscription watches more channels than the eight Spanish channels that is afforded to them).

Spanish is the unofficial second-language of the US (being that the first "unofficial" language is English) and as those consumers want to be as educated as the rest of us, it makes sense that some smarter companies have bought time on channels such as Discovery and ESPN that run maybe 1-4 Spanish language commercials in a 24-period, just to catch the attention of a wayward surfer.

---------- Post added at 10:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 PM ----------

The perfect example of this trend may be that Comcast commecial where the young girl is on the phone talking to the company operator, guiding her "abuelita" as to how to set up the newly-installed cable package, and just as she falters in translating instructions towards her elderly grandmother, the operator states the phrase in Spanish, as if to say, "we're a family, nation of one, people, etc.", I don't know.

here it is:

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Wyodiver33

I don't know, maybe some English-language commercials on Spanish-language channels would light a fire under their asses to learn English. If they have adopted the USA as their new home they should work hard to assimilate. I don't mean that they should abandon their culture and memories of their old home at all. But they should learn English. I shouldn't be expected to learn Spanish. As I can pass for Hispanic, I get approached frequently while in downtown Miami by Spanish speakers, asking for directions or whatever. Often, when I say "No habla Espaniol" I get looks of disgust from them. To me, that's completely farked up. I've been to Panama, Guyana, and the Dominican Republic. I never Expected anybody to speak English.

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Baraka_Guru

Maybe they're trying to improve their English.

Inclusion. If I wanted to market to Spanish-speaking audiences, I'd produce Spanish-speaking commercials. I'm assuming the English channels have a broader reach, but I'm sure there are other factors involved.

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dippin

Why do you think you are "expected" to learn Spanish? Are TV commercials that important to you?

Regarding the "work hard to assimilate" and the "learn English" comments: first, for a good chunk of Hispanics, the border crossed them, and not the other way around; second, Hispanics have assimilated to American society as fast as most other immigrant groups.

Finally, considering you've been around Latin America without speaking Spanish, I think it's safe to say you spoke English around the region. You might not have expected every individual to speak it, but you still spoke it. And a good chunk of the people working in the service sector there probably learned to speak English to satisfy their consumer base. Not too different from the situation you are describing.

Wyodiver33

I am thinking that my point is lost here.

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Reese

The worst part is that because many Spanish commercials are already very loud the volume boosting, which is going to be illegal soon, makes them that much louder. Adding to the fact that because we don't speak the language it sounds like nothing more than noise.

As for the original question as to why Spanish speakers aren't watching Spanish TV.. Well, It sucks. There's nothing on but cheap, over-dramatic, Spanish soap operas, Lucha Libre, news and 15 year old movies. At least that's the only thing on the Spanish channels here in Kentucky. We only have a small Hispanic population though.

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Charlatan

The answer is that Spanish speaking people are watching both Spanish and English language channels.

To be clear, the broadcasters ad sales department has time to sell on their channel. They are going to sell it to whomever will buy it. Advertisers want to place ads for their products and services. They do a lot of research into how to reach the people they want to buy their products and services. Their research tells them where to find their buyers. They would not bother putting Spanish language ads on an English language channel if they didn't think there weren't eyeballs (and this case ears) that were receptive to their messages.

As to why would you need a Spanish language commercial on an English channel... it's simple economics. It's more expensive to make another version of your ad if all you really want, demographically speaking, are those that will understand your Spanish language ad.

Similar things happen here. Quite frequently a Chinese language ad will run on an English language channel for these same reasons. If there is enough return on investment, you will sometimes see a Chinese ad dubbed into English on an English language channel. It certainly a lot cheaper than shooting a second ad.

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Wes Mantooth

I'd imagine part of it(aside from the economics) is trying to lure bi-lingual folks by appealing to their Spanish heritage. For example an immigrant here in the states might be feeling a little homesick, hearing an ad in his native language would both make the ad stand out and perhaps make the the person more willing to spend money at a store or company that bothered airing its ad in Spanish.

I had a good friend who was from Mexico City and he would light up like a pin ball machine when he ran into somebody else that spoke Spanish perhaps these commercials are trying for that same effect?

EDIT: Left this out because I'm over tired...When I lived in Northern Maine it wasn't uncommon to see ads in French due to the high population of French Canadians and proximity to Quebec...I don't think I ever met anybody living in Maine that didn't speak English but they aired them anyway, tourists maybe?

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Jetée

Yeah, I wanted to make a point about this, too. (though it seemed to veer abit off the point)

Most Spanish television in the US is based in South Florida, New York, and California, and is basically a mish-mashing of what Reese described, along with dozens of horrible sketch comedy-shows, scantily-clad programming (half of which are dating shows), "Judge (Spanish Person)", badly-translated 80s action movies, and game shows. Sabado Gigante is perhaps the best microcosm of what one can expect to find on any given hour on a Latino channel. So, it makes sense to advertise in other places, channels and venues if Spanish-speaking persons ever get tired of the same 10th grade humor and appeal that is so prevalent on their "cultural" channels.

Also, it has something to do with what Wes is describing, in that most of these advertisements have a central theme of "family", and for Latinos, (and most South Europeans, South/East Africans, Eastern Bloc countries, etc) the meaning and bond among their family members is a significant emblem of their lives.


One last thing that may or may not be deemed significant: ten minutes after I submitted my first reply towards this topic last night, I walked across the living room in passing, and I heard Dennis Haysbert doing his daily 'Allstate' spot again, but at the end of his little speech, he stated, "estas in buenos manos".

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Jinn

I think how you stand on Hispanic people was made perfectly clear here. And it wasn't by Post 1 or 2.

Food for thought: is it possible, in your mind, for someone to understand English but prefer to speak and listen in Spanish?
Food for thought #2: should what you 'expect' of immigrants really matter?

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Cynthetiq

Well that's just dandy, my metrocard kiosk is in Russian, Chinese, English, Korean, I think I saw Hebrew at one time. ATMs are the same way. I have advertising on bus stops in Chinese and Spanish.

Personally, I don't care what the commercials are on my TV, I usually fast forward through them via Tivo anyways.

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snowy

Another point to keep in mind is that some broadcast television shows simulcast in Spanish. Look for the SAP for second-audio program. Second audio program - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia So yes, Spanish speakers are watching the regular television channels too.

Additionally, Latinos are everywhere in the United States these days. Get used to it. This country was built on the backs of immigrants, and it is no different in the present day. Personally, I think we should all be learning Spanish, not the other way around; I'm a big fan of dual immersion programs for children. Linguistic isolationism is silly.

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Pearl Trade

I don't see any commercials in spanish, but it would piss me off if I did. I'm in the same boat with Wyodiver here, I want everyone to assimilate to American values, customs, and so forth. ASSIMILATE ASSIMILATE ASSIMILATE. It's the name of the game. You came to America, be American. This goes for everyone, not just Mexicans and Hispanics, I'm talking Germans, Chinese, Canadians, Nigerians, I don't give a fuck. Speak english and be American.

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Jetée

Hmm.. this seems to be right in your wheelhouse then.

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Pearl Trade

As a matter of fact, that is right in my wheelhouse.

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Charlatan

The USA does not have an official language. As there is no official language whatever is most popular is the lingua franca.

Get over yourself with the whole Assimilate thing.

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Baraka_Guru

It would seem that some long-time Americans should assimilate themselves and perhaps learn more Spanish.

Times change.

I don't see "speaking English" as being particularly "American." I see it as being more British than anything else.

Being American means speaking Spanish as much as it does speaking English. How many Americans know Spanish? Think about that.

America is no longer simply a former British colony. Not anymore.

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LoganSnake

As an immigrant, I can tell you right now that there is no fucking way in hell I will ever completely assimilate to the American culture. By choice.

There are just way too many things I disagree with on such a level that it makes me sick. However, I am not asking for commercials to air in Russian just because I speak it. The most basic thing you can do when moving to a new country is at least learn the basics of the language to be able to communicate with the general population.

Asking me to do any more than that and especially to adopt American values and traditions just makes me scoff at the very least.

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Cynthetiq

Assimilate on TV commercials? Maybe for government services and other public sector things such as voting, I'd probably agree with you, but private sector? Really you want someone to force a private company via government controls?

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dippin

The funny thing is that as a former colony, the only reason you can speak of an "American culture," as opposed to a British culture or Native American culture, is because a bunch of people came over here and didn't readily assimilate...

World's King

There are Mexicans living in the US?

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Wes Mantooth

I never really understood the grand importance placed on assimilation anyway, I really could careless if somebody from Mexico, Japan or Italy or Mars comes here and opts to speak their native language or part take in anything else they bring along with them. Its none of my business and has no effect on my life or how I live it. Other then a few communication problems what harm does it really cause?

"MY GOD! the guy taking my order at McDonalds only speaks SPANISH!!!!!!!!!! RAGE!!!!!" What a waste of perfectly good rage.

God forbid we Americans take the time enrich ourselves by learning multiple languages or something equally horrifying.

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Pearl Trade

We must Americanize in every way, in speech, in political ideas and principles, and in their way of looking at relations between church and state. We welcome the German and the Irishman who becomes an American. We have no use for the German or Irishman who remains such. He must revere only our flag, not only must it come first, but no other flag should even come second. – President Teddy Roosevelt

That's pretty much my take on the situation. Sums up my feelings spot on.

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Wyodiver33

This is obviously a touchy topic, and I understand that. I welcome all legal immigrants to the USA. But I stand firm on the idea that they should all learn English.

Yes, Europeans wrongly conquered North and South America. I'm not getting into that. That is very much in the past. It can't be fixed.

I wish English was the official, mandated language of the US. I understand that most Europeans speak at least two languages. Some speak three or four. But most European countries are, relative to the US, small countries. (Just talking about geographically, not importance, not bashing Europe.) And travel between countries is easy. So it behooves Europeans to be multilingual.

The US is a large country. English speakers in the US should not be obligated to learn other languages. I said it before that I will eventually learn Latin-American Spanish. But I shouldn't feel obligated.

Here's an example: All government forms here in South Florida have to be printed in English, Spanish, and Creole (Haitian). What a waste of time, money, and resources.

So, basically, the onus is on me to accommodate immigrants. I should pay higher taxes to make sure that they are comfortable, that all forms are understandable to them. And I should learn Spanish and Creole, which would cost me money and time. And, as I probably have another 30 years, at least, to live, if any other groups of immigrants come to the US in large numbers I'll be expected to learn their languages as well. Hmm.

Why is the burden on me? To me that's a very simple question. If I moved to Brazil I would learn Brazilian Portuguese. If I moved to Pakistan I would learn Urdu.

I would never, ever, expect to be catered to.

My viewpoint: Come to the USA legally, learn English.

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dippin

Who the fuck is being obligated to learn Spanish? All this discussion and I've yet to see where this is happening.

And maybe printing forms in other languages actually saves money when compared to wrongly filled forms or to enforcing English only rules. And the citizenship test is in English. They don't require the same from other visa holders, but it would be unreasonable to mandate tourists and so on to learn it. Finally, if English is mandated, should we have English proficiency tests? I guarantee many "native speakers" wouldn't pass it.

Jetée

I don't usually like to quote things in very small contexts when the sum of the post conveys more of the idea, but this seemed very pointed in ways to defining your main argument.

So, my question to your realization would be: you learned this all from watching what, daily, maybe two full minutes, at most, of a blue-shirt cable installation man/woman or Dennis Haysbert speaking to you in Spanish? And that America is doing a disservice to its people because it has yet to install a regimented, mandatory state of mind as to how we should operate and be viewed as a world nation?

I have never gleaned that much from my commercials (though I rarely watch them anymore).

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Wyodiver33

It's a much bigger deal to me than just the Spanish commercials. Maybe I didn't understand that when I posted the original post.

Forget it. I give up with this topic. You are all right, I am wrong. Just forget it.

I will learn eight or nine languages to make sure that everybody is comfortable. I will spend the money and time to get that done. When commercials on my English-language channels air Spanish commercials I will crank the volume up. I will continue to pay Comcast for the Spanish-language channels.

Insanity. But, sure, I'm on board. Let's do it! In 50 years the USA will be totally crippled.

I give up.

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Cynthetiq

wyo, I'd agree with you for some things like ballots, since the voting requirement is that you can read English. It doesn't qualify at what level, but I understand that to mean that level that is in the ballot.

Government services? Well that's a bit harder, I don't think that they should spend the money to put languages all over, because it's a government service, but all people who pay taxes should be afforded access to services. If reaching out to them is via their language, I think that's not such a bad thing.

Personally though, I'd rather it be reach out by NGOs to those communities, where the community takes care of themselves. I'm a big advocate of NGOs and that's where I think the language barrier be better served by their own community and advocates of their community.

But when it comes to private enterprises such as printing goods and services why can't they cater to who they want to? So what that Enterprise prints or advertises in multiple languages? What difference is that? If you don't like it you don't have to use Enterprises services.

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Baraka_Guru

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—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
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dippin

Again, who is demanding that you speak another language? Who is forcing you to do so? Were you denied access to anything because you don't speak Spanish? You've said again and again that you shouldn't be expected to learn another language, and that apparently the whole thing is bad enough to completely cripple the US in 50 years, but you've yet to say why. Oh, and the number of people within the US who don't understand English is near all time lows.

By the way, making a language an "official" language doesn't do what you think it does. Having an official language doesn't force people or private businesses to use that language.

Wyodiver33

Ok. I give up.

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Wyodiver33

Even though I was born in the USA I should cater to every single person who emigrates to the USA. As a tax-payer it's my job to make sure that every person who doesn't speak English is comfortable. Every illegal immigrant should have a Driver's License.

This is pointless.

I give up on this thread.

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Cynthetiq

who gave you that job? It isn't mine. I don't cater to them... why are you?

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dippin

Amazing that you give up (without ever trying) and yet keep coming back.

If this is a rant, maybe you should put it in a blog. If not, what the hell are you trying to argue here?

I've asked before and I'll ask again: who is making you do anything? who is making you learn a language?

Let me try to salvage this mess a bit: What exactly are you for and against here, other than random rants about illegal immigration and foreigners?

You think people should learn English before they emigrate to the US? Done. The naturalization test is in English. And I bet a good number of US born Americans would either get the English or the history in them wrong:
Sample INS Citizenship Questions

So those that come to the US to become citizens already have to know English. That leaves temporary visa holders and illegal immigrants. Illegal immigrants are, well, illegal, and as such any attempts to make them learn English are at best redundant. Do you believe an English test should be a requirement for temporary visa holders? Keep in mind that the organizations sponsoring several types of visas already require English, which realistically only leaves tourists without some expectation of knowing English. Should people be subjected to English tests to get tourist visas? And given that a substantial amount of people whose primary language is not English were born in the US to foreign parents, should US citizens be subjected to those same English tests?

Of course, the majority of Spanish speakers in the US, be them US born, naturalized or here illegally already understand English. They just choose not to use it with other Spanish speaking people and within their neighborhoods. Should they be forced to speak English? Should the US go beyond even what Quebec does in trying to protect it's language, and force, by law, that broadcasts can only be in English and people can only speak English in public? Who would be in charge of making that happen, checking everyone and being in charge of punishments?

These aren't rhetorical questions, as I would really like to know what you think. People get caught up on the "people should speak English in the US" part but never think about what it would mean in practice to make that policy. You are probably not going to respond, given that this looks more like just random anti immigration rants, but you should at least give it a try before giving up.

Pearl Trade

It almost feels like we're being forced to learn another language. No one is really making us learn anything, it just feels that way. High school students here in Texas are required to take at least 2 years of a foreign language. I'm sure other states have similar programs. Granted, learning a new language can help certain people if they ever need it, but why should it be required?

I don't think making an argument about "most Americans don't know english" is a good argument. So what if they don't know the proper uses and what an adverb is, I want to be able to understand them and have an intelligent conversation with them. If you only "partly" learn english, then a potentially good idea seems like a broken thought that's trying to be put into words. Is it really too much to ask for immigrants to learn basic english in a country who has only spoken english in it's entire history? I'm not one for bringing up the past history, but it's obvious the United States is an english speaking country, whether it's offical or not.

Tourist visas shouldn't require the holder to learn english, as it is extremely short term and it's pretty much a "get in and get out" deal. It's not like they won't know anything in english either, most people know a few words that might be able to get them through a short stay. They just need to know enough to get by. Citizens shouldn't be tested, as they will most likely learn english if they stay here, even with foreign born parents. I know of many people who's parents didn't know any english, but they still learned it in school or things like that.

It's fine that they speak spnish among themselves, but they need to know how to speak english so when they talk to people who don't know spanish they can convey what they want. We all know it's just not possible, not to mention un-Constitutional, to force people to speak english in public. I don't know anything about the Quebec laws and I haven't even heard about them having "language laws", would you care to tell me what the deal is there?

Man, I just get tired of being asked to press 1 for english.

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dippin

Why does it feel like you are being "forced" to learn another language?

By the way, students in Texas are not required to take a foreign language. Foreign languages are part of the recommended program, but not the required program:

19 TAC Chapter 74, Subchapter F

And my point wasn't that "most Americans don't know English." It was that "most Americans would not do well in an English proficiency test."


Regarding the "country who has only spoken English in its entire history," pretty much everything outside the original 13 colonies spoke Spanish, French, or one of the Native American languages at the time of independence.

---------- Post added at 10:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:05 PM ----------

Oh, and regarding the Quebec language laws, here's a summary:

Charter of the French Language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


And yet, as strict as those laws are, they would do absolutely nothing in the situations described here (broadcasts in foreign languages, use of foreign language in every day life).

---------- Post added at 10:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 PM ----------

By the way, English is already the official language of the state of Florida. As I said, being the official language doesn't stop business and people from using other languages.

Wes Mantooth

So really the whole issue of immigrants learning English ultimately boils down to "its inconvenient for me and I don't want to deal with it"? So many nations are bilingual, millions upon millions of people all over the world can learn and fluently speak a second and sometimes a third or fourth (or more) language, why is that such a difficult concept for us here in the States? I don't know, my country baffles me sometimes.

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