Averett

As to not hijack this thread: http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=83940 I figured maybe I should start a new one. So here we are.

I can't understand why a woman should be put out to pasture once she hits menopause. Men don't retire after hitting a certain age, and lord knows they don't retain their youthful figure.

So a woman of 50 should just hang it up. I say hell no. If you still want to have sex, have at it. If I'm 50 and in a loving relationship I should hope that once I start to appear older my partner doesn't stop loving me and wanting me physically. Thats a really sad thought to have.

I know that I'm not always going to look the way I do. I know I'll get old. But I will not stop enjoying the things I enjoy now just because I can join AARP. Hell no.

__________________
Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.

uptown

What's even sadder is if your partner keeps approaching you sexually either out of his love for your mental traits or his sense of obligation when he is clearly not physically turned on by you anymore .

There is nothing that feels more shameful than being on the receiving end of mercy sex,nothing at all.


I think women face a huge amount of pressure all of their lives regarding physical appearance/sexuality issues and I think it perfectly valid and acceptable if a woman should reach menopause and just decide that it stops then.

Averett

It's not mercy sex, it's LOVE!

I'm honestly flabergasted.

__________________
Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.

uptown

I'm sorry I disagree,I feel totally flattened and humilated
by such sex and would rather go without it.You've obviously never had a man sleep with you because he felt it was his obligation even though he was not attracted to you at all physically.I don't care how much he loves your other traits there's no way of masking the lack of physical attraction over the long haul and ther's no way that you're not eventually going to feel horrible about it and there's no way the guy over time isn't going to expect you to express gratitude for his sacrifice.

I think the better way is to acknowledge that age is causing changes that are making the physical attraction diminish and then to decide both on your own and as a couple what options are ok with you in order to deal with it.

maleficent

There comes a point where the physical attraction no longer matters, and it's your partner's personality that becomes the most important thing in a relationship. So what if they haven't retained their youthful figure... does that mean their partner can no longer find them attractive? People change, gravity takes over eventually, that physical attraction does not have to fade.

a mercy fuck and having sex with someone because you love them, inspite of their appearance -- or perhaps not even noticing their appearance are two totally different things. The mercy fuck is wrong... but it's possible-- absolutely possible to have the latter.

__________________

Ananas

Well, this is one side of the coin. How do you feel about him? Is he still physically attractive to you? Do you want to make love with him because he still got it going on, or because you just feel sorry for him?

Are you sure he's not using the "you're not physically attractive to me anymore" line to mask a possible physical/physiological problem that prevents him from performing?

__________________
it's gritty

kollege_gal2000

Even though that is my thread that started this new one, I figured I would comment here also.

I think there is something beautiful in the way older people can still be in love after everything they go through physically. I don't understand why some of you have issues with older people having sex. I think it's a wonderful thing. I am very sorry for those who have "come to there senses" and believe that they should no longer have sex.

I plan to have sex as long as I'm still alive.

__________________
I am not afraid of tomorrow; for I have seen yesterday and love today!

greeneyes

Of course it is perfectly valid and acceptable, and so is deciding not to stop then.

From the former thread:

When I read that, all I could think was, "Wow, this is a detriment to so much of what women fight for everyday."

__________________
Put the blame on me
So you don't feel a thing

Go on and save yourself
Take it out on me

Untitled

As always, Mal is right there with my opinion in words better than I could use....

If you're in a loving and committed relationship, the person's appearance doesn't really matter. I've always found that, as you grow in the relationship and learn about the other person and love them, they become more attractive to you physically, BECAUSE of their personality.

I don't know, I don't know how to make my point properly here. I'm with Averett; I'm honestly confused....

uptown

Mother Nature shuts down our reproductive systems once we're too old to safely bear healthy babies,in her wisdom she also causes us to wrinkle and sag,rendering us unattractive to men. You can't fight mother nature,not unless you want to look like a foolish old woman.

Squishor

I'm confused too. 50 isn't even all that old these days.

Uptown, it seems to me that you have made wise decisions based on your experience (from what you've said), and I commend you on that. Certainly there is nothing wrong with retiring from sex at any age, if that's what makes the most sense in your life and your world. But I don't believe it's appropriate to enforce that on others. I think the value in what you're saying is that we should respect the position of the older women and allow them to be older woman instead of expecting them to try and remain forever young. I agree with that. However, not everybody ages at the same pace. I am 41, so 50 isn't all that far away. Sex is very important to me, and I certainly don't plan on going into retirement in less than a decade!

p.s. My grandmother didn't retire either...and she was in her mid-70s when she told me.

little_tippler

Damn, if you want to stop go ahead! I don't think what's right for one person is right for everyone. I also think that older people can still be physically attracted to each other, because that's not the only element to attraction. The physicality of the person you love, after being with them for so long, is deeply entwined with the spirituality, emotional bonding, mutual respect and tenderness that a healthy relationship provides. I don't understand how you can just "decide" oh no your body doesn't do it for me anymore after such a long time of being with someone, not if you love them. If you can, that's pretty cold and heartless. I plan to go on having sex for as long as I feel like it. And we don't live in the stone age anymore, when I last looked life expectancy nowadays is between 70-80 years of age on average, so saying that the menopause is your body saying lay down and act like you're dead is BULLSHIT if you ask me.

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

greeneyes

Have you seen Something's Gotta Give?

__________________
Put the blame on me
So you don't feel a thing

Go on and save yourself
Take it out on me

raeanna74

I actually can't imagine a woman of 50 or perhaps even 60 who takes care of her body NOT being attractive.

The woman I've seen in our swinging exploits who are of the 45 on up age rage have some sags, stretch marks, veins, and wrinkles still have all the working parts needed for SEX. Their vaginas don's "sag" or get loose. Their breasts are still soft to the touch and the lips aren't sagged so they can't kiss. They rejoice in the fact that they don't have to worry about BC pills and can just enjoy sex for the pleasure of it. Procreation is no longer a worry for them.

I've seen quite a few younger men in the 20-30 age range pursue one of these menopausal women even though at these parties there's a whole range of woman available. These women exsude a confidence and joy in life that is attractive despite their apparent age. Just last weekend I saw a 35 yr old pursue a woman who had just turned 50 because she was attractive to him. There were other woman around and other men to entertain her as well it was in no way mercy sex it was pure attraction. Nothing wrong with that.

I am only 30, well 31 nexct week, and I have stretch marks galore from pregnancy as well as varicose veins from the same. I still have acne as well. I have scars now from c-section, mole removals (precancerous) and from a recent hernia. I try to keep fit physically but there are battle scars and marks that show. What am I supposed to do? I'm not even close to 50 yet but time is already showing. Oh and how about the fact that the women in my family tend to hit pre-menopause around 35 or so. My mother started out with hot flashes then and found out at 39 that she could no longer have the 3rd child she wanted. So do I only have about 9-10 more years of sex in my life. NOT for ME. I don't think so. If that's what makes your life easier to let go of sex once you hit a certain point that do so. But for me I will enjoy sexual activity so long as my husband or other men are willing.

You're only as old as you think you are.

btw - Thanks averette for starting this thread - I apologize to kollege gall for going off on a tangent on her thread.

__________________
"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

ngdawg

I have been in TFP just a few weeks shy of a year. Maybe 6 people here know how old I am. The pictures I post are always the most recent ones I have-last set I took was in January. Here goes.........
I am 50! I don't have to color my hair-I have no grey. I don't work out heavily-I dance while doing other things like dry my hair.
I have some things that might be associated with 'age'-menopause has started, the neck ain't as tight as it was 30 years ago. Minor stuff. I have no physical ailments worth mentioning that anyone in their 20's wouldn't get.
I get hit on by guys young enough to be my son. My sexuality now is probably stronger than it's been since I was 30-perhaps it's the aura of confidence I have found in the last few years. I don't have to wiggle around in too tight jeans or wear a ton of make-up or hang all over someone to prove anything and I think that comes through-I cringe when I see girls doing all that, but they still need to find their place-I arrived at it.
I would really be appreciative if everyone would STOP referring to 50 as old!! With any luck at all, you will get here and if you play your cards right, the path will be smooth for you.
/me goes back to her rocker and afghan now.....

Averett

Kudos, ngdawg! I wouldn't say 50 is old at all. After all, Oprah says 50 is the new 30

__________________
Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.

Squishor

Perfect example. Thanks for showing off, ngdawg. I'm right behind you!

Grasshopper Green

Ndawg, I've seen your pics and you are a sexy woman and nowhere NEAR old.

That having been said, I'm creeping up on 30. Like raeanna said, I've got stretch marks, spider veins, and an extra 20 pounds on the petite size 6 frame that I used to have when I was in my late teens and early twenties; childbirth can take a toll on a womans body. However, my husband thinks I'm sexier now than I was when he first met me, and I somehow doubt that is going to change. Sure, I'll be taking care of him when he's 50, his time in the military really took a toll on his body and he'll probably be slowing down then. But guess what? He'll also be taking care of ME then, and not in the bringing me hot tea kind of way.

My best friend's grandmother recently got remarried (she's in her late 70's) and had her first orgasm during a sexual encounter EVER. She enjoys sex more now than she ever did with her first husband and I think that is fantastic. More power to her, I say.

Hang up my hat at 50? Maybe if I'm dead at 49.

__________________
"They say that patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings; steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you king"

Formerly Medusa

uptown

You older? still think you're sexy? like being on to during sex ? do an experiment, get a hand mirror and place it on top of your bed pillows, assume a crouching postion as you would be during sex, look into the mirror, yes ladies that saggy face, that resembles a chinese shari pei dog that's looking back up at you is what your man see's, have a good look at your breasts and belly in that mirror while you're at it.

When you're done there, go browse thru a few "mature women" porn sites and notice how visually unappealing these women are next to nubile young women in their 20's.Also keep in mind those older porn actresses are the middle aged women who still look good,better than the rest of us average ladies who haven't had the money for surgical help in looking good.

Another idea to think about is that as baby boomer women age,sales for meds like vigra and cilias are booming, most possibly because men,no matter their age are visual creatures and their middle aged wives quite frankly are no longer visually or sexual appetizing, I dare say if you placed a 22 yr old in front of most impotent middle aged men instead of their 50 yr old wife,there'd be no need for any viagra.

greeneyes

Thank God I don't have the same hang-ups about sex as you do. Sex is more that just the physical act, it is also an emotional connection. I'm sorry that isn't how you view it but that doesn't mean that the rest of us should "throw in the towel."

__________________
Put the blame on me
So you don't feel a thing

Go on and save yourself
Take it out on me

uptown

I'm sorry but I think it takes more than an "emotional connection" to produce a working erection,it takes some physical attraction and sorry ladies but the best kept 50 yr old doesn't hold a candle to an even average 25 yr old in terms of physical attractiveness.

A man might indeed love his aging wife and have a lot of affection for her but that affection is similar in type to the way he regards a loyal old dog that's been with him for years.

I also find it telling that you attack me for having "hang up's" but you fail to address any of the very real points I've brought up.

Another thing,if middle aged woman are so sexy, then why is it that divorced men remarry in far greater numbers than middle aged women and that those men usually remarry younger women ?

Why do so many middle aged men need to take drugs in order to get erections for their middle aged wives ?

Cause maybe there needs to be some sort of physical attraction for sex to even begin to happen ?

abaya

I believe people of both genders only engage in "mercy sex," as you say, when they don't value themselves enough to go out and find someone who will truly treasure them and would LOVE to have good sex with them, regardless of age.

Uptown, I gotta ask: can you give us some idea of your current relationship status? And I don't mean just married/divorced/single, I mean, what kind of relationship do you (or did you) have that influenced your self-image so greatly? Everything that you say is tinged with an accusation of men being unattracted to you, which tells me that this is something you've probably struggled with for a long time. Have you ever had sex with a man who attended to you with great tenderness and care, setting aside all of his own needs to take care of yours (no matter what your age)? I ask these things because I can't help but hear a lot of bitterness in your words... it sounds like some guy really screwed you over in the past (or is still doing so today) and made you feel very self-conscious of your body. If this is the case, I am sorry.

You also said "a woman with any sort of class or breeding gracefully retired from sexuality" after menopause; what does this mean? What class do you see yourself being in, and do you consider the rest of us to be below you in terms of class? I have a real problem with this tone, as it assumes a certain classism that says the rest of us are all lower-class sluts if we want to have sex after menopause. Is that your intention?

I wish we could take a poll of older couples to ask how many of them only have sex for obligatory purposes... I think the numbers themselves would disprove your theory. How does one set up a poll??

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Squishor

I think that the truth is to be found somewhere in the middle, as with most situations involving human feelings and circumstances. Humans are very adaptable creatures and so it goes with our attraction to our sexual partners. I am aware that when I am old, chances are my sexual partner will also be older. I suppose when that time comes, I will just deal with the fact that I am no longer in bed with a 20- or 30-something. Sure, a young, firm body is going to be inherently more appealing than an aged, "flawed" one. And sure, men are visually stimulated, more so than women in a lot of cases. However, I have noticed that as I age, I am no longer as attracted by the smooth, unlined faces of 20-year-olds. I enjoy seeing the little crinkles at the corners of my boyfriend's eyes because I know that means he's been laughing. Or squinting into the sun even, whatever it is he's been doing I know that he's been somewhere living life and I appreciate that. I don't believe that men are so shallow that they don't have the same feelings about the women in their lives, no matter how visual they are.

I perceive a lot of idealism in the comments saying that physical appearance doesn't matter when you love someone. Truthfully, it's going to be a factor, but hopefully one that is mitigated by years of affection and appreciation for the person behind the wrinkles. This is not a cut-and-dried topic, since every situation is different and humans are complex creatures. Uptown, I want to give you credit for speaking your truth; I know it's not an easy topic and perhaps I'm mistaken but I sense a lot of pain behind your remarks. But you could back down a little bit and be more flexible, don't you think? There is more to attraction than simple physical stmulus, and there are more scenarios being played out in people's bedrooms than your own.

ngdawg

What I lack in body hardness I make up for it GETTING his hard and getting it on. The 25 year olds they wanna just fuck and send home-the real men stick around for a bit and want more than an airhead attached to a pussy.
This doesn't merit a response.

Working on that now.

Because they are insecure and can't take care of themselves. Because only a know-nothing young bimbo would take him, for the most part-so she can be 'taken care of'. And because women, unlike men, get smarter as we age. To quote Gloria Steinem- A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.

I know middle aged men who take that stuff to fuck YOUNG girls and keep up with them-this comment of yours has NO merit at all. Hugh Hefner ring a bell?

If you think that physical attraction ends at 30, I have some swamps in Florida to sell you. I have been hit on by merely writing, sight unseen, by men much younger than myself. If you feel the only thing worth building on is your physical being, I am sorry for you. I am not denying that visually, there has to be something for two people-but then again, how to explain a truly unattractive person with an attractive one-but, there are those that just wanna fuck and those that want to love. With age comes wisdom, if one is lucky at all and those that have lived both ways will generally tell you, it's love that wins the race.

greeneyes

Now this just pisses me off. You are likening yourself and your entire sex as being no more loveable and worthy after menopause than a dog. Thank you for opening my eyes and showing me that once I can no longer produce children, I am worthless and should be regarded as a pet.

/sarcasm

__________________
Put the blame on me
So you don't feel a thing

Go on and save yourself
Take it out on me

uptown

My point is that physical attraction is an important part of sex and a lot of men are not only not attracted to older women,they are actively physically repulsed by them and it's not even by concious response.You can love someone very much but no longer desire them physically and once physical desire is totally gone,well you're in much the same place as a beloved dog.
He might try to overcome his aversion to the sight of you naked but it'll feel like mercy sex at best, obligation,let's get this over with chore sex at worst.

lazygirl

gosh, I feel sad for some one that thinks this way.

ngdawg

These musings sound much like they come from a bitter, left woman. They have very little basis in fact-save for maybe a 30 year old man being repulsed by a grandmotherly type-but it's the same for women. Do you want the unkempt, beerbellied retired guy or the well-kept, fit, active one? Age has little to do with it and if the man I'm with feels it's his duty, he can go AWOL.
On a side note: My mother-in-law is 73, has a 'boyfriend' her age and they get it on more than many, including her own 51 year old son. Rock on, old lady!!

lazygirl

yep i think it is when you are young thats it all about bodies, my feelings are that it just gets better all the time!

abaya

UPTOWN -- you completely ignored my post and its questions.

I can't take anything you say seriously unless you give us some insight into WHERE you got these ideas from, as in: are you currently in a shitty relationship where some guy treats you like a dog, or have you experienced that in the past, or did you see your parents treat each other that way? etc etc. I need some serious context for your comments, because otherwise I have no clue where you are coming from.

I also would like to know if you think that any woman having sex after menopause is a lower-class slut, because as it stands, that's exactly how your tone sounds.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

uptown

I have NEVER said that any woman who engages in sex after menopause is a lower class slut, what I have said is that for ME to do so is shameful and makes me like one of those disgusting creatures on a mature woman porn site, I have no desire to be viewed as a "deparate, cock hungry granny" nor do I desire to be whispered and laughed about as one of those foolish old women who refuse to accept and act their age and come on,every neighborhood/social circle has one of those women that everybody gossips about.

Manuel Hong

I continue to age, yet I still feel 17 in many ways...
My boyfriend is 44, eight years my senior and his sarcasm regarding society's expectation that a woman needs to look young until the day she dies fills me with love for his total independence of thought. For my own vanity, I like looking good...it makes me feel good, doesn't matter what other people think although it's fun to be hit on by guys in their early 20's who don't know my age. I always get a kick out of the fact that thay all say the same thing: "You don't look that old" HA! Just you wait kiddo, it goes by faster than you can imagine!! These boys without fail move away to seek younger companions...funny.
I've been involved with men in their 20's recently and there's really no comparison in my opinion to the character that developes with age as compared to a rather shallow view of women and sexuality that often is present in younger men. I love my bf. He's hot, smart and secure in himself, as I've learned to be. I dig his cute pot belly and he loves my ass (celulite and all). I want to stay in shape for health reasons and my own sense of vanity, but realistically being loved and loving in return is more of a turn-on than the exterior presentation of one's self.
Over 50?? Granny? Oy Vey!!!

__________________
Believe nothing, even if I tell it to you, unless it meets with your own good common sense and experience. - Siddhartha Gautama (The Buddha)

ShaniFaye

why does uptown make me feel like I should be taken out and shot in a few years? jesus christ

sorry you feel the way you do uptown...but mercy sex can take place AT ANY AGE

I know MANY couples in the 50+ category (Up to their 70's) who still find each other as attractive as they did in their "younger years"

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Demeter

At 50, I hope to be getting on like a jackrabbit! I'll be the nympho granny, and everyone will know why I smile!

ngdawg

And what, pray tell is 'act her age' as it regards sex? I have to accept my age, it's what I am! But, assuming you are NOT 80 or over, what on earth would make anyone think that because you like sex(hypothetically-obviously you hate it). That is horribly sad that you regard it as shameful because you aren't 25.
I damn well hope I'm still going at it years from now. I will die having sex or kill the one giving me my orgasm!!

sexymama

uptown, sure glad I'm married to Lebell and not someone who feels like you do!

__________________
If you can go deeply into lovemaking, the ego disappears. That is the beauty of lovemaking, that it is another source of a glimpse of god

It's not about being perfect; it's about developing some skill at managing imperfection.

bad jane

beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and love is blind.

we all know people that we think are...well, ugly. sorry if being that blunt offends anyone, but it's true. we have all at some point, looked at another person and thought--wow, they are ugly! and meant it. sometimes these people are strangers so who knows what goes on in their bedrooms, but sometimes they are people we know.

now i know people that would be considered a 10 on the unattractive scale, but they are still managing to get laid. so either someone has decided that my idea of ugly is not the same as theirs or they've looked past it and found other reasons to find the person attractive. why would age spots be so much worse than moles or acne or birthmarks? why would wrinkles be so much more unattractive than fat rolls or people so thin you could count their ribs? why would grey hair be so much worse than any other color? why would breasts that sag due to age be any worse than breasts that sag due to size?

but what really concerns me most about saying sex should end when you no longer fit some unknown ideal (i've never had a hollywood body but i assure you i have had no trouble finding a bed partner!) is that there are reasons other than age that alter a persons appearance. burn victims? women who've had breasts removed? trauma from car accidents? the list could go on. should these women also give up on sex?

and if women should stop having sex when they can no longer have kids, i guess i should never have started! and i'm not alone, there are lots of women out there who can't have children. is it "wrong" for them to still enjoy sex?

as for who people gossip about around town--let 'em talk! how is being a cock hungry granny any worse than being a cock hungry twenty year old? do you really think gossips feel one is appropriate and not the other? hell no! they're just looking for someone to talk about and will take whatever comes their way. trust me, if the town gossip wants to discuss some flaw in you with others--the town gossip will find one whether you actually have it or not.

little_tippler

All this act your age stuff...I'm so glad we're in a time where you no longer have to hide who you are and what you want, for the sake of social convention...and it's sad to see some women would rather go back in time.

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

Manuel Hong

I have no desire to flame Uptown...Hon, how old are you? The ideas you have now may be a result of inexperience, society's obsession with physical beauty or maybe parenting...I dunno. I'm interested though. WHY do you feel the way you do? I think this bears discussion.

__________________
Believe nothing, even if I tell it to you, unless it meets with your own good common sense and experience. - Siddhartha Gautama (The Buddha)

jenjen

I will admit that there was a time when I thought 50 was old, or that nobody my mom's age (or my mom for that matter) should ever have sex. But now I realize that neither beauty nor sexuality are defined by age. I'm less than halfway to 50, but I have seen some beautiful women that are 50 and above, and some (what's a nice way to say this) not so pretty women that are under 25. If you want to give up on sexuality and give up on your body, you can do that at any age, but I think putting a boundary like 50 or menopause and saying no more sex after that is silly. If any of you really have any doubts that someone 50 can look beautiful and be sensual and sexual, you need to look at some of ngdawg's pictures - if you didn't know the age, you would never guess first thing, and do you seriously expect someone that looks like that to shut down her sex life? I know I won't if I look like that at 50! One last thing, I volunteered one summer at a retirement home, and trust me there is plenty of sex going on in the over 50 (over 70) crowd, and it's not just men that are having the sex!