Making a Man Wait - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

genuinegirly · 03-25-2009, 05:15 AM

To the TFP Ladies...

Oprah spoke with the comedian Steve Harvey, who advised women to make a man wait for sex when dating. Here's the rundown:

Quote:

Comedian Steve Harvey: Women's standards too low

(OPRAH.com) -- One of the original Kings of Comedy, Steve Harvey is the host of one of the most popular radio shows in the country, "The Steve Harvey Morning Show." His first book, "Act Like a Lady, Think Like a Man," is shooting to the top of the best-seller lists, and Oprah Winfrey says she loves everything it has to say!

Harvey says this book has a special meaning for him. "This is the first project that I didn't do for money," he says. "Other than my foundation -- mentoring programs -- everything I do is for money. I tell jokes for a check; I'm on TV for a check. ... But this [book] right here I did purely to empower women."

In his book, Harvey says the way a man introduces you gives good insight into the status of your relationship. If a man introduces you as a friend or says your name with no title at all, Harvey says you have nothing. "We're very protective. We mark our territory. If a man loves you...he's willing to profess it. He'll give you a title after a while. You're going to be his lady, his woman, his fiancée, his wife, his baby's mama, something," he says.

"If he's introducing you after six months, 'This is...Oprah,' you should be standing there going, 'This is going nowhere.'"

Man with a plan
Another thing women need to understand, according to Harvey, is that every man has a plan. "Men don't come up to you to just talk. We come up to you with a plan," he says. "We're looking across the room at you, and we don't care about your hopes and dreams. We don't care about what your future holds. We saw something we wanted."

When a man approaches a woman, Harvey says, he already knows what we wants from her, but he doesn't know what it will cost. "How much time do you want from me? What your standards? What are your requirements? Because we'll rise to the occasion no matter how high you set the bar if we want to," he says. "The problem is, women have stopped setting the bar high."

The cookie

Though a woman might want many things from a man, Harvey says men only need three things: support, loyalty and sex. Or as Harvey calls it, "the cookie." "We've got to have your support. Whatever adventure we're out on, whatever pursuit in life, we need your support. Then we need your loyalty. That's your love. We've got to know that you belong to us," he says. "And we've got to have a cookie. Everybody likes cookies. That's the thing about a cookie. I like oatmeal raisin...but if you've got vanilla cream, I'll eat that too."

Kickin' it

In his book, Harvey tells the story of his father-in-law's first introduction to one of Harvey's daughter's boyfriends.

"[My 26-year-old daughter] was dating this guy who was about 30. He had been over to the house about four, five times. And my father-in-law was visiting from Memphis," Harvey says. "He's in the kitchen and he's eating and [my daughter's] boyfriend is in there, and [my father-in-law] goes: 'So, son, sit down. Tell me, what's your plan for my granddaughter?'" After plenty of hemming and hawing, Harvey says the boyfriend finally said that the two were just "kickin' it."

Harvey was pretty confident his daughter didn't have the same interpretation of the relationship, he says. "I said: 'Cool. Let's bring my daughter in there. Let's inform her that she's just being kicked...let's see if that's what she wants to do," he says. "They broke up the next day."

Gone fishin'

Harvey says men are like fishermen -- but women are actually the ones looking for a good catch. You won't be able to find one, though, until you up your standards. "You've got sports fishermen, and you've got guys out there fishing to eat. You've got guys that are fishing to keep the fish, and you've got guys that are fishing to catch them, unhook them and throw them back," Harvey says. "You've got to determine along the way which one of the fish you're going to be."

Without ironclad standards, Harvey says you'll always end up back in the dating pool. "You've got to quit lowering your standards," he says. "Set your requirements up front so when a guy hooks you, he has to know this is business."

And don't let the man set the pace of the relationship -- Harvey says it's always the woman who has total control. "With all that power, why do you suddenly relinquish this power just because you want a guy to accept you? That's stupid," he says. "Say: 'Look, if you want to be with me, this is what you got to do. This is what it takes to get to me.'"

When should you sleep with your new boyfriend?

As an auto plant worker, Harvey says he had to wait 90 days to receive benefits -- and says the same probation period should apply to dating. "In 90 days they checked me out. They determined if I was easy to work with, if I got along well with others, if I showed up when I said I was going to show up, if I was worthy."

Women, Harvey says, hold the greatest benefit of all -- the cookie -- so there's no reason to give it away until you know your man deserves it. "Slow down, ladies," Harvey says. "Look, you cannot run us off."

So what if you don't want to wait 90 days? Harvey says if you change the probation period, you do so at your own risk. "You all keep changing the rules. And men are aware of the fact that you are changing the rules. We're aware of the fact that you act desperate. We're aware of the fact that you think there's a good shortage of good men out there," he says.

"We play on all of that. ... We created the term 'gold digger' so you won't ask us for nothing. We created the term 'nagging' so you can quit badgering us. These are terms that we created so you can require less of us."

Mr. fix-it

Harvey says four little words can strike fear and dread into any man: We need to talk. "You just drove a nail in his forehead," Harvey says.

Men are fixers, not talkers, Harvey says, so it's better to get to the point. "When you say, 'We need to talk,' we put up the barriers," he says. "I tell ladies, just sit down and strike up a conversation."

Turn off the text

Social networking Web sites and text messages can be a great way to keep in touch with friends, but Harvey says it's not the best way to date. "You have nothing if you're texting a guy in a relationship," he says. "We can text six women a minute. We can text it and push 'reply all.' I mean, since we're lying, we might as well lie to everybody."

If you want the relationship to be more, take it face-to-face. "Women talk about [how] chivalry's dead. Chivalry's not dead -- it's just not required anymore," he says. "You've got to get a guy in your face. Look in his eyes. ... God has given you all this incredible thing called intuition. You've got to use that."

Safety first
You know you've got a keeper when your man wants to make sure you're always safe, Harvey says. Every man wants to protect his woman, and Harvey says this instinct kicks in when his wife, Marjorie, scuba dives. "I can't go home without her. We've got seven kids between us," Harvey says. "They need their mother. I'm not a good mother at all."

Although Marjorie is a certified diver, Harvey isn't a swimmer. "I have a security guy who can swim," he says. "So [he puts] on the snorkeling gear and when she goes down, I tell him, 'You swim over and just keep an eye on my wife.'"

Harvey also has instructions for everyone else on the boat. "I told all the dive masters on the boat: 'If she does not come out of that water in 30 minutes, everybody in the water. Everybody. We're doing a dive search right here,'" he says. "I don't care if nobody [else] on the boat goes home. She goes home."

From The Oprah Winfrey Show

I see some excellent advice here, when it comes to helping a clueless woman understand the mentality that comes along with sex for men. The problem with this, though, is that they assume the woman is clueless. It assumes that women only want to settle down with every man they have sex with - an assumption that I find repulsive. It assumes that women are not as interested in sex as men - another repulsive assumption. Then again, I don't typically relate to the things that appear on Oprah.

What do you get out of this advice?
Are you bothered?
Do you benefit from it?
Do you find that it plays up to stereotypes?
Do you think something entirely different?

Feel free to disagree with me - I post so I can read a perspective that is different from my own.

snowy · 03-25-2009, 08:01 AM

What do you get out of this advice?
A whole bunch of nothing. Every situation, every relationship is different and should be treated as such.

Are you bothered?
Yes. The article makes a lot of assumptions I disagree with. It suggests that sex should be used as a manipulative tool, versus as something to be enjoyed between two people.

Do you benefit from it?
No. I slept with my SO on our first real date. We've been together over three years. I don't think Mr. Harvey's advice is relevant to me in the slightest, and I think other women should take it with a grain of salt.

Do you find that it plays up to stereotypes?
Yes, especially the idea that women enjoy sex less than men. It's complete bullshit.

Do you think something entirely different?
Obviously!

In my experience, there were definitely times where waiting was prudent, and there were times where it was clear that waiting was a waste. When I met my SO, I just knew that what we had was very, very different than any other relationship I'd been in, and I didn't see the point in holding off on something we both wanted.

genuinegirly · 03-25-2009, 01:02 PM

I just realized I didn't answer these questions!

What do you get out of this advice?
I see that many dominant thoughts in society revolve around women being helpless, hopeless romantics who want to find a man and nab him for life. I thought this was only prevalent in the LDS community that I experienced growing up. Looks like I was wrong.
Are you bothered?
Yes. Very.
Do you benefit from it?
I suppose I do. It helps me to understand a few female friends who are trapped in the "I want a family but I'm 27 and a virgin and don't have any prospects for a husband".
Do you find that it plays up to stereotypes?
Sure. Too many of them. It makes all of the men out to be jerks, only interested in sex. It makes women out to be hopeless ambitionless imbiciles.
Do you think something entirely different?
I think that women are much more intelligent about their decisions than they're given credit.

settie · 03-25-2009, 03:02 PM

What do you get out of this advice?
nothing, I've read a huge pile of books by doctors and such on dating, relationships, and basic human needs/desires and where they stem from. I know too much. lol

Are you bothered?
I'm not bothered by it, but I don't think its right. Its just a reiteration of old beliefs, old mannerisms. Like stepping into a time machine. To be honest, its how my old Italian family thinks in general: old-fashioned.

Do you benefit from it?
Nope, there's nothing to learn here.

Do you find that it plays up to stereotypes?
I think its possibly trying to reach naive women. Women that have never dated, or dated unsuccessfully, or dated without any elderly advice. Its a stepping stone, perhaps. One perspective, but not the best perspective by far. Because its so old-fashioned, and so general, its insulting.

Do you think something entirely different?
I feel that there is no right or wrong way to date. Its all experience, and what better way to isolate what you want in a partner than experience? Take a chance, try something different, but just do what feels right. If you keep questioning yourself, try something new, make a change. Just don't give up.

ametc · 03-25-2009, 04:39 PM

What do you get out of this advice?
He thinks all women want something more than just sex.

Are you bothered?
Yes. I'm the type of girl that wants something more than just a relationship. I expect lots of sex.

Do you benefit from it?
No.

Do you find that it plays up to stereotypes?
Yes.

Do you think something entirely different?
I've enjoyed many a bootycall before... and some of those bootycalls expected more from me. When I was asked by one of them if I had sex with anybody else, and I replied truthfully, yes, they got a little offended and said it wasn't "right" for me to be going out with other men... so apparently he wanted more of a relationship than just sex while all I wanted was sex. So, men, too are seeking fulfilling relationships... not just women. It varies to the degree of how much sex:relationship a person wants with each individual.

raeanna74 · 03-26-2009, 05:59 PM

What do you get out of this advice?
Nothing new.
Are you bothered?
Not really, it sounds like the same old thing.
Do you benefit from it?
Only in that it reminds me to think about my relationship instead of just letting things slide that might need to be dealt with.

Do you find that it plays up to stereotypes?
Definately but only because there are a lot of women out there who use sex to get what they want. Women use sex to get love, men use love to get sex - in general. It's not always that way and shouldn't be that way but it's the norm.

Do you think something entirely different?
Kindof. Be clear with guys as to what you are looking for. Communicate and you'll understand where they're coming from or why they do things. Be open and honest and last but not least... DON'T PLAY GAMES.

*Nikki* · 03-26-2009, 06:01 PM

If I make a man wait for sex it is simply because I don't intend to have sex with him at all.

snowy · 03-26-2009, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Nikki*

If I make a man wait for sex it is simply because I don't intend to have sex with him at all.

It's been the same in my experience too.

mixedmedia · 03-26-2009, 07:01 PM

His advice doesn't bother me, per se. It's not my kind of advice, but there are probably women in the world that it would work for. To each his own.

RangerJoe · 03-27-2009, 08:06 AM

What do you get out of this advice? I'm sorry to disagree with everyone else here, but I think it's pretty good advice for the Oprah viewers, which is what it is aimed for. There are A LOT of women out there that sleep with a guy on the very first night, then 3 days later when he won't call or answer, they wonder what they did wrong. I think Steve Harvey probably sheds a lot of light and insight into the minds of the guys that tend to run off.
Are you bothered? Not in the least. There's a bunch of women out there that need to hear this.
Do you benefit from it? The part about taking control made me think. My boyfriend is super passive and doesn't want the relationship control. I keep trying to hand it back to him because I hate making decisions. Looks like I should keep it and get that rent money. =P
Do you find that it plays up to stereotypes? No. I think he uses the word "women" very liberally and isn't meaning all women. You guys above me are saying that he's all wrong, women want just sex, too, right? Then, you're probably not the demographic that he is shooting for.
Do you think something entirely different? Yes and no. I think that no matter what kind of woman you are, there's probably going to be some advice in here that you could probably use in your everyday life, not just relationships. Then again, I normally just take advice with a grain of salt.

genuinegirly · 03-27-2009, 08:49 AM

Yay! A new perspective! Thanks, RangerJoe, raeanna, and mixed for piping in.

Shaindra · 03-29-2009, 02:25 PM

I think it's basically good advice for his audience: women who want a longer term commitment from guys. I'd rather the "wait on sex" line was phrased more like, "You shouldn't feel the need to put out before you're ready. A man who is into you will wait 3 months, if necessary, because you're worth it." Most of his advice is aimed at weeding out guys who don't want a longer-term commitment.

The rest of it? Mostly common sense. But it's amazing how uncommon common sense can be.

CinnamonGirl · 03-29-2009, 07:06 PM

I guess there's some good advice in there, but, like RJ said, I'm not really the demographic he's aiming for.

Very similar: when I was about 16, a male coworker told me to girls should wait six months before having sex, because then you'd be sure he actually was into YOU, not just using you for sex. And it was great advice... when I was 16. I don't think it would really work now that I'm closer to 30.

Parts of this remind me of that conversation. Sure, would've been great advice when I was way younger... not so much now.

ametc · 03-30-2009, 12:34 AM

It could just be me... but most girls I know that want something long term already know that sex on the first date.. or any date is not a very wise decision. Girls who have sex with a guy in the beginning of their relationship tend to not want a very serious relationship at that time.. so it boggles me how long term gals would want to have sex with someone they barely know enough to consider the relationship serious.

Not judging or being a bitch.. just curious on how this could slip a girl's mind.

SabrinaFair · 03-30-2009, 03:04 AM

I don't believe in establishing rules and timelines, nor do I assume sex on the first date is an *automatic* deal-breaker. My most serious relationship to date started with sex on the first date. It's not usually a good idea, though, but if it feels right, it's all good.

The advice doesn't bother me, per se. There's plenty of bad advice out there. I just chose to ignore it.

genuinegirly · 03-30-2009, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SabrinaFair

...
The advice doesn't bother me, per se. There's plenty of bad advice out there. I just chose to ignore it.

Goodness, I love this!

SabrinaFair · 03-30-2009, 01:10 PM

Thank you. :-)

NorthernGirl · 04-16-2009, 05:13 PM

90 days !!!!!!!!!! If I make a new guy in my life wait, it wont be 90 days !!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have needs too !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lostgirl · 04-17-2009, 11:15 AM

I never understood the making a man wait thing. I want it just as much (if not more) than he does.

NorthernGirl · 04-21-2009, 09:21 AM

steve harvey is kind of a prick , I wouldnt write in stone eveything he says

03-25-2009, 08:01 AM	#2 (permalink)
snowy Kick Ass Kunoichi Location: Oregon	What do you get out of this advice? A whole bunch of nothing. Every situation, every relationship is different and should be treated as such. Are you bothered? Yes. The article makes a lot of assumptions I disagree with. It suggests that sex should be used as a manipulative tool, versus as something to be enjoyed between two people. Do you benefit from it? No. I slept with my SO on our first real date. We've been together over three years. I don't think Mr. Harvey's advice is relevant to me in the slightest, and I think other women should take it with a grain of salt. Do you find that it plays up to stereotypes? Yes, especially the idea that women enjoy sex less than men. It's complete bullshit. Do you think something entirely different? Obviously! In my experience, there were definitely times where waiting was prudent, and there were times where it was clear that waiting was a waste. When I met my SO, I just knew that what we had was very, very different than any other relationship I'd been in, and I didn't see the point in holding off on something we both wanted. __________________ If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

03-25-2009, 01:02 PM	#3 (permalink)
genuinegirly Eat your vegetables Super Moderator Location: Arabidopsis-ville	I just realized I didn't answer these questions! What do you get out of this advice? I see that many dominant thoughts in society revolve around women being helpless, hopeless romantics who want to find a man and nab him for life. I thought this was only prevalent in the LDS community that I experienced growing up. Looks like I was wrong. Are you bothered? Yes. Very. Do you benefit from it? I suppose I do. It helps me to understand a few female friends who are trapped in the "I want a family but I'm 27 and a virgin and don't have any prospects for a husband". Do you find that it plays up to stereotypes? Sure. Too many of them. It makes all of the men out to be jerks, only interested in sex. It makes women out to be hopeless ambitionless imbiciles. Do you think something entirely different? I think that women are much more intelligent about their decisions than they're given credit. __________________ "Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

03-25-2009, 03:02 PM	#4 (permalink)
settie Junkie	As Bill from Left4Dead would say: "What a crock of shit!" What do you get out of this advice? nothing, I've read a huge pile of books by doctors and such on dating, relationships, and basic human needs/desires and where they stem from. I know too much. lol Are you bothered? I'm not bothered by it, but I don't think its right. Its just a reiteration of old beliefs, old mannerisms. Like stepping into a time machine. To be honest, its how my old Italian family thinks in general: old-fashioned. Do you benefit from it? Nope, there's nothing to learn here. Do you find that it plays up to stereotypes? I think its possibly trying to reach naive women. Women that have never dated, or dated unsuccessfully, or dated without any elderly advice. Its a stepping stone, perhaps. One perspective, but not the best perspective by far. Because its so old-fashioned, and so general, its insulting. Do you think something entirely different? I feel that there is no right or wrong way to date. Its all experience, and what better way to isolate what you want in a partner than experience? Take a chance, try something different, but just do what feels right. If you keep questioning yourself, try something new, make a change. Just don't give up.

03-26-2009, 05:59 PM	#6 (permalink)
raeanna74 I'm not a blonde! I'm knot! I'm knot! I'm knot! Location: Upper Michigan	What do you get out of this advice? Nothing new. Are you bothered? Not really, it sounds like the same old thing. Do you benefit from it? Only in that it reminds me to think about my relationship instead of just letting things slide that might need to be dealt with. Do you find that it plays up to stereotypes? Definately but only because there are a lot of women out there who use sex to get what they want. Women use sex to get love, men use love to get sex - in general. It's not always that way and shouldn't be that way but it's the norm. Do you think something entirely different? Kindof. Be clear with guys as to what you are looking for. Communicate and you'll understand where they're coming from or why they do things. Be open and honest and last but not least... DON'T PLAY GAMES. __________________ "Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

03-26-2009, 07:01 PM	#9 (permalink)
mixedmedia has all her shots. Location: Florida	His advice doesn't bother me, per se. It's not my kind of advice, but there are probably women in the world that it would work for. To each his own. __________________ Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

03-25-2009, 04:39 PM	#5 (permalink)
ametc Psycho	What do you get out of this advice? He thinks all women want something more than just sex. Are you bothered? Yes. I'm the type of girl that wants something more than just a relationship. I expect lots of sex. Do you benefit from it? No. Do you find that it plays up to stereotypes? Yes. Do you think something entirely different? I've enjoyed many a bootycall before... and some of those bootycalls expected more from me. When I was asked by one of them if I had sex with anybody else, and I replied truthfully, yes, they got a little offended and said it wasn't "right" for me to be going out with other men... so apparently he wanted more of a relationship than just sex while all I wanted was sex. So, men, too are seeking fulfilling relationships... not just women. It varies to the degree of how much sex:relationship a person wants with each individual.

03-26-2009, 06:01 PM	#7 (permalink)
Nikki ~~~~~~~ Location: Charleston, SC	If I make a man wait for sex it is simply because I don't intend to have sex with him at all.

03-27-2009, 08:06 AM	#10 (permalink)
RangerJoe Addict	What do you get out of this advice? I'm sorry to disagree with everyone else here, but I think it's pretty good advice for the Oprah viewers, which is what it is aimed for. There are A LOT of women out there that sleep with a guy on the very first night, then 3 days later when he won't call or answer, they wonder what they did wrong. I think Steve Harvey probably sheds a lot of light and insight into the minds of the guys that tend to run off. Are you bothered? Not in the least. There's a bunch of women out there that need to hear this. Do you benefit from it? The part about taking control made me think. My boyfriend is super passive and doesn't want the relationship control. I keep trying to hand it back to him because I hate making decisions. Looks like I should keep it and get that rent money. =P Do you find that it plays up to stereotypes? No. I think he uses the word "women" very liberally and isn't meaning all women. You guys above me are saying that he's all wrong, women want just sex, too, right? Then, you're probably not the demographic that he is shooting for. Do you think something entirely different? Yes and no. I think that no matter what kind of woman you are, there's probably going to be some advice in here that you could probably use in your everyday life, not just relationships. Then again, I normally just take advice with a grain of salt.

03-27-2009, 08:49 AM	#11 (permalink)
genuinegirly Eat your vegetables Super Moderator Location: Arabidopsis-ville	Yay! A new perspective! Thanks, RangerJoe, raeanna, and mixed for piping in. __________________ "Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy Last edited by genuinegirly; 03-27-2009 at 08:51 AM..

03-29-2009, 02:25 PM	#12 (permalink)
Shaindra Psycho Location: Massachusetts	I think it's basically good advice for his audience: women who want a longer term commitment from guys. I'd rather the "wait on sex" line was phrased more like, "You shouldn't feel the need to put out before you're ready. A man who is into you will wait 3 months, if necessary, because you're worth it." Most of his advice is aimed at weeding out guys who don't want a longer-term commitment. The rest of it? Mostly common sense. But it's amazing how uncommon common sense can be. __________________ "Never regret something that once made you smile."

03-29-2009, 07:06 PM	#13 (permalink)
CinnamonGirl She's Actual Size Location: Central Republic of Where-in-the-Hell	I guess there's some good advice in there, but, like RJ said, I'm not really the demographic he's aiming for. Very similar: when I was about 16, a male coworker told me to girls should wait six months before having sex, because then you'd be sure he actually was into YOU, not just using you for sex. And it was great advice... when I was 16. I don't think it would really work now that I'm closer to 30. Parts of this remind me of that conversation. Sure, would've been great advice when I was way younger... not so much now. __________________ "...for though she was ordinary, she possessed health, wit, courage, charm, and cheerfulness. But because she was not beautiful, no one ever seemed to notice these other qualities, which is so often the way of the world." "Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?"

03-30-2009, 12:34 AM	#14 (permalink)
ametc Psycho	It could just be me... but most girls I know that want something long term already know that sex on the first date.. or any date is not a very wise decision. Girls who have sex with a guy in the beginning of their relationship tend to not want a very serious relationship at that time.. so it boggles me how long term gals would want to have sex with someone they barely know enough to consider the relationship serious. Not judging or being a bitch.. just curious on how this could slip a girl's mind.

03-30-2009, 03:04 AM	#15 (permalink)
SabrinaFair Junkie Location: Louisville, KY	I don't believe in establishing rules and timelines, nor do I assume sex on the first date is an automatic deal-breaker. My most serious relationship to date started with sex on the first date. It's not usually a good idea, though, but if it feels right, it's all good. The advice doesn't bother me, per se. There's plenty of bad advice out there. I just chose to ignore it. __________________ "With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy." -Desiderata

03-30-2009, 01:10 PM	#17 (permalink)
SabrinaFair Junkie Location: Louisville, KY	Thank you. :-) __________________ "With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy." -Desiderata

04-16-2009, 05:13 PM	#18 (permalink)
NorthernGirl Upright	90 days !!!!!!!!!! If I make a new guy in my life wait, it wont be 90 days !!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have needs too !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

04-17-2009, 11:15 AM	#19 (permalink)
lostgirl lightform Location: Edge of the deep green sea	I never understood the making a man wait thing. I want it just as much (if not more) than he does. __________________ We're about to go through the crucible, but we'll come out the other side. We always arise from our own ashes. Everything returns later in its changed form. - Children of Dune

04-21-2009, 09:21 AM	#20 (permalink)
NorthernGirl Upright	steve harvey is kind of a prick , I wouldnt write in stone eveything he says