How do people afford these? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

shesus · 08-23-2005, 08:56 AM

My family keeps asking the dreaded question: When are you going to have a baby? Well, for one I'm not too keen of the thought of motherhood. Second, how would I afford one? I have no family around to help me out with childcare like my other relatives who get it for free. I was talking to a friend and she is paying $1200 a month for childcare. For the parents out there, how do you afford to be a parent? To back up my argument, I supplied a snippet of an article the entire article can be found at: http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/...ids/P37245.asp

Quote:

Raising your quarter-million dollar baby

Children are priceless, but raising them is probably the most expensive thing you'll ever do. Here are some strategies and tips that may help.

By MSN Money staff

Every newborn child is a bundle of joy. But you better have a bundle of cash on hand if you want to raise one.

For 2004, the newest data available, the U.S. Department of Agriculture estimates that families making $70,200 a year or more will spend a whopping $269,520 to raise a child from birth through age 17. Higher-income families in urban areas in the West spend the most, $284,460.

Though not as steep, the figures for lower-income families are just as unsettling: $184,320 for families earning $41,700 to $70,200 and $134,370 for families making less than that. That breaks down to nearly $15,000 a year from birth to age 2 for families in the $65,800 -plus income bracket. As your child ages, he or she gets even more expensive, topping out at $15,810 from ages 15 to 17. This is no back-of-the-envelope guesstimate. The survey involves visits to, and interviews with, about 5,000 households, four times a year.

Nor is there much in the way of cost-effectiveness for larger families. With an older child of 16, the USDA study says, a family with a second child under 2 lays out $20,740 for the both of them each year, with the numbers growing progressively as the children get older. With three children -- the two older ones being 16 and 13 -- a third child aged 2 years or less rings up an annual bill of $24,160.

Martian · 08-23-2005, 09:03 AM

Is that all?

Kids are expensive. That's the main reason I don't have any yet. I'm honestly surprised the total's that low, I would've figured it closer to half a mil. Sounds like a lot, but figure that's over nearly twenty years.

Charlatan · 08-23-2005, 09:10 AM

I rent mine out on weekends.

canuckguy · 08-23-2005, 09:29 AM

a lady i use to work with use to say "if you wait until you can afford them, you'll never have them".

Yakk · 08-23-2005, 09:41 AM

They learn how to budget?

That number looks like roughly 20% of their income. A big expense, but doable.

Remember, with a baby, you'll have far less leisure time!

Xazy · 08-23-2005, 09:48 AM

As one who does not have any yet (g-d willing when it is right we plan on having), I do not have the answer. But my brother while in law school had 2, my other brother had 1, when he was just beginning to make ends meet. For both of them, at that point it was very hard, but you do what you have to, and you make ends meet.

I help out a relative by paying about 25% of the costs for school for his kids (they go to a private school)... But the point is, to get these bundles of joy, you have to make sacrifices, be willing to buckle down on expenses and do what has to be done.

Fremen · 08-23-2005, 09:55 AM

If you get a chicken instead, at least you can eat it if it gets too expensive.

Bill O'Rights · 08-23-2005, 09:59 AM

You manage.
You eat out less, you don't go to as many shows, you discover that "khaki's" don't have to be "Dockers", Land's End is...ended, you find that there is at least another year left in your car, you bring a sack lunch to work...there are ways, and you will find them.
Kids ain't cheap. No question. But, as much as I bitch about mine, I wouldn't trade the little shits for anything in the world. There is nothing that I have ever purchased that has provided me with a greater return on my investment than my kids. Of course...it's been a few days since I've felt the need to strangle my oldest.

World's King · 08-23-2005, 10:36 AM

I'm thinking more and more mothers-to-be are getting into porn.

mystmarimatt · 08-23-2005, 10:51 AM

I'm not even going to begin thinking about having kids until at least after grad school.

Even then, chances are, we're going to adopt. Unless she's absolutely dying to go through childbirth, which I know she's not, we'd much rather help an orphaned child than contribute to the world's population. Besides, I don't want to be held responsible if the kid is ugly.

Seriously, though. That's not as much when you consider it's over a period of many years. It just looks bad because it's been clumped into some huge number. Like BOR said, "you manage," if this weren't managable, it wouldn't be happening.

Dano069 · 08-23-2005, 12:08 PM

Baby blood brings a high price on the black market!

shakran · 08-23-2005, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohh_shesus

My family keeps asking the dreaded question: When are you going to have a baby? Well, for one I'm not too keen of the thought of motherhood.

Well then be blunt. Tell your family to kiss off, and don't have a kid. If they want a baby so bad, tell THEM to have it. One of my pet peeves is people pressuring others to have children. Children are not a requirement for a happy lifestyle. I know many childfree people who are quite happy with their situation, and who have a hell of a lot more freedom than those of us with kid(s).

And if you're not keen on the idea of being a parent then for chrissake don't have a kid. You'll be miserable, and the kid will be cheated.

And btw, contrary to the popular argument I hear people use when trying to convince someone not to have a kid, it is NOT selfish to not want one.

shesus · 08-23-2005, 03:05 PM

I must say that there are many interesting responses to this. I guess Bill O'Rights stated the hows pretty well. I don't want this to turn into a thread about me wanting or not wanting children. There is already a thread like that in the Living section. It was just that after talking to my friend, I was curious how people make ends meet. I know that if you wait until you can afford them you will never have them. Yet, I'm just surprised that my friend is writing a $1200 check a month for childcare and not even batting an eye. She actually looked at me as if I were the crazy one thinking that it was a lot. Curious to hear more about supporting a child without going homeless.

analog · 08-23-2005, 03:23 PM

Man, I could make a list of all the reasons for me not to have children... that would have to be almost at the tippy-top of the list.

ngdawg · 08-23-2005, 03:42 PM

I'm willing to bet that if your friend added the cost of childcare to the cost of everything having to do with work, ie: commuting, clothing costs, etc-she'd find out she was working for next to nothing, maybe even less than nothing.
I left work to stay home until the kids started school. Daycare would have been just over half my take home pay and the idea of someone else raising the kids I worked so hard to get was disgusting. Easy choice. While I was home, I did work at home, labelling kitchen items for an importer-I didn't make a lot but what I made was mine and it helped.
BOR is right-once the kids come, you do cut back on some things simply because you don't have the time or need. We still did Friday night dinners out, just did it with two babies in tow. We cut out drinking beer and wine.
I shopped at Walmart and BJ's Warehouse instead of Macy's.
You make priorities is the bottom line.

Meditrina · 08-23-2005, 03:44 PM

I agree with the statement that if you wait until you can afford children, then you won't have any. My first came as a surprise. We were married, 1st year in the new house and not planning any kids, yet. We learned to budget our finances better and we both had to make some sacrifices. For awhile we didn't go on any vacations, except to family. oh and we both worked full time. If you want to have children, you find ways to afford them.

Cynthetiq · 08-23-2005, 07:01 PM

While I'm not looking at the dollar cost of children, I'm looking at the time cost.

I don't want to give up the time that I have to travel, go to broadway shows, barhopping, leaving at 12:30AM to go to a club to watch a live band, etc.

If I look at the cost... sure it's expensive, but so are all the activities that I spend my free time doing also cost money.

Willravel · 08-23-2005, 08:05 PM

I waited till I could afford them. In other words, I did everything humanly possible to get a well paying career as soon as possible. I started working at 14, and I have not stopped since. I had $100k tucked away by the time I got married (a year and a half ago), and I STILL have to budget carefully. Yes, kids are expensive. For me, it's justt a part of life. I'd pay a million dollars just to hear my daughter laugh, though (even when she's been up all night singing to her teddy bear).

Uncle Pony · 08-23-2005, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohh_shesus

For the parents out there, how do you afford to be a parent?

I'm lucky enough to be one of those people who makes enough money that my wife doesn't have to work. She stays at home with the kids and I work.

Yes, I'm the lucky one.

meembo · 08-24-2005, 05:45 PM

There are a lot of costs with having children, but never equate money with time and quality of care. Money makes many things easier, but it's not the most important thing. Kids don't remember small apartments or lack of trendy presents. They remember how much time they spend with mom and/or dad.

raeanna74 · 08-24-2005, 06:15 PM

Yes kids cost a lot initially (I think our hospital bill was around 8,000 for the c-section but thankfully we had lots of health insurance) and they grow out of clothes so fast that you can't imagine having to buy new shoes only 2 months after buying a previous pair but yet you find yourself doing it.

There are many unexpected ways of saving money.
You would be surprised what the difference in cost is between going out for one meal each day of the week opposed to packing a lunch and fixing meals from scratch at home. Even the prepared foods cost signifantly more than it would be to make something from scratch.
I work from home doing childcare for other parents. When I have all the possible kids that I'm allowed, I can actually make more than hubby does at his decently paying job. I am still at home and NOT paying out half of my paycheck for childcare.
We do not give our daughter allowance at least not yet and will not unless she does EXTRA jobs. An allowance won't be given for simply doing her responsibility.
We do not buy brand name clothes unless we find them for a very good price. I frequently shop at thrift stores. I would like to think that I am a savy thrift store shopper because I cannot recall one criticism of our clothes but plenty of compliments.

There are so many other things that we probably would do differently without a child's added cost. I must admit though that if I were given the choice I would not go back to not having a child.

It is RUDE for anyone to suggest that you need a child. Especially if you are not ready for it. It would not hurt to even tell them outright that you feel they are being rude when they say such things. Hubby and I are content with one child and have decided to make that a permanant decision. We have gotten a few questions about it but once we were firm about our decision we have not recieved any more complaints. It's your life - do what is right for you.

shesus · 08-24-2005, 06:43 PM

Thank you all. I have been wondering this for awhile and hearing your stories makes sense. I guess I see parents all the time and they look like they're making ends meet. However, you never know what is actually going on. I'm also surprised by how many people were stay at home moms. Raeanna, what you did with the childcare sounds like something I might try if I do have a child. Since I have a teaching degree, I shouldn't have a problem with credibility.
I guess your life does change when you have children, but it's nice to know that the sacrifices would be worth it.

Daniel_ · 08-25-2005, 02:39 AM

Of course there's always the HUGE DEBTS option.

That's the way I did it, and it makes for an interesting juggling act come pay day, but it's only money.

Redlemon · 08-25-2005, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

While I'm not looking at the dollar cost of children, I'm looking at the time cost.

I don't want to give up the time that I have to travel, go to broadway shows, barhopping, leaving at 12:30AM to go to a club to watch a live band, etc.

If I look at the cost... sure it's expensive, but so are all the activities that I spend my free time doing also cost money.

Yes, that is a huge part of the equation, and it should be. At this point in your life, you are still [ insert synonym for 'selfish', but without the negative overtones* ]. We were the same, and it wasn't until we were about 32 that we felt we had done enough of that and were ready to focus on a child.

* I can't find this word. It has to exist somewhere...

tooth · 08-25-2005, 06:39 AM

You just do it. There is no secret. You just do it. You have kids, and then you do the best that you can with what you have.

They are only as expensive as you let them be. They don't have to have the best of everything to be happy, well adjusted kids. I sure as hell don't spend that kind of money on my kids, yet somehow they always have clothes to wear and food to eat. Gasp, it must be magic.

Two best quotes in this thread...

"If you wait until you can afford them, you'll never have them."

and..

"It's only money."

Rubyee · 08-25-2005, 08:17 AM

It's true- it is only money.

Let's look at this from another point of view.

When I was a kid, I wore hand me down clothes and clothes we got from the salvation army. My favorite thing to do was decorate my clothes with puff-paint to make them seem new. I didn't have a pair of jeans until I entered junior high.

The mall to me was Target. It was not the toy store, followed by The Children's Place, followed by the theatre and the arcade. It was Target- get in, get out, and spend less than $50 on all three children and the parents.

Dinner was never out. It was in. It was something simple out of a box with a can of vegetables. Lunch was always home lunch rather than school lunch. I had a sandwich and a quarter to buy a milk. It wasn't a sandwich and potato chips and a candybar and a juicebox like the lunch of everyone next to me.

My parents couldn't have made more than $60,000 a year, especially since my father found it impossible to hold down a job for more than a year. But we survived. I didn't have my own car until I moved out and took out the loan for one. I bought my own clothes with the money I made holding down part time jobs in high school.

When I look around at the kids I grew up with, the kids whose parents could spend a fortune on them, I am the one that should be fortunate. I have very little debt. I have a nice home and nice furniture to go inside it. I have a nice car. I have new clothes and shoes. I can go out to a nice dinner every once in a while just because I feel like it, because I understand the value of money, and what I need and don't need.

I see the spoiled kids, and they are racking up the credit card debt, and their new cars are falling into disrepair because they are too expensive to afford insurance on so the accident they got into has not been fixed. They call home to mom and dad whenever they spend too much money on a new handbag or pair of leather shoes and can't buy ramen.

It doesn't take a lot to raise a kid properly. Mostly you need values, morals, and love. Half of my parents had that, and I spent most of my childhood with the betterhalf. Yes, it is expensive, and I don't know how people afford day care, doctor's visits, and especially Back To School Clothes. But not having the newest stuff or the best food will not harm a child. If anything, it makes them stronger.

Plus, low income households get a lot of help with things like day care and food for children. You can also just hope that your child turns out like me and is smart enough to start school a year before all the other kids.

highthief · 08-25-2005, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian1975

a lady i use to work with use to say "if you wait until you can afford them, you'll never have them".

That's basically it - there is never a "good" time to have a kid financially, even if you are making good money. When one is ready to have kids, and put your own needs and wants behind theirs, it's time to squeeze one or two out.

Kalnaur · 08-25-2005, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dano069

Baby blood brings a high price on the black market!

Of all the things posted, this one caught my eye!

splck · 08-25-2005, 10:04 AM

if you want them, you'll be able to afford them. it's all a question of your priorities in life.

Rinndalir · 08-25-2005, 10:33 AM

Yeah like others have said you make it work, somehow. A good point though is the TIME investment involved in having a kid. Something that was simple before like going to a movie or out to dinner with friends now becomes a major logistics challenge. Most people don't understand this and so are in for a big shock in addition to how much it costs when they have a kid. So if you're not willing to give up 99.99% of all your free time you need to think twice before you have one.

viejo gringo · 08-25-2005, 11:37 AM

52 years ago I got layed off and had to borrow $20 from my
mom to get my baby out of the hospital.....it got a little
worse, but then I got 3 job offers in one day and took them all...

yea, there were times when we collected soda bottles and returned them for the deposit so we could buy food....BUT

I would not change it for anything---lord how I loved that
little baby girl.....so much that I had two more and remarried
into three more---now I have 9 grandkids and 4 great grand
kids----now THOSE are the expensive ones...paying for the
collage books tonight.....ya got love'm..VG

Giant Hamburger · 08-25-2005, 11:51 AM

No matter how much money you make you will grow old and die.
When you are gone your worldly possesions will not remember you with love.
They will not mourn your passing. The time and money you saved will mean nothing.
I could not afford not to have children.

shesus · 08-25-2005, 11:57 AM

Wow, I honestly didn't think I would get such a response from this. I am impressed. Rubyee, your response was very sweet and true. Looking at all the money I spend on my stuff, I think that I could swing it.
Redlemon, the reason it is so hard to find a word that is not negative for selfishness is because I don't think one exists. I like to think that I am very unselfish because I refuse to bring a child into the world while I still like to spend for me and have a lot of free time. Selfish would be having the baby and neglecting it by still acting parentless.

snowy · 08-25-2005, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giant Hamburger

No matter how much money you make you will grow old and die.
When you are gone your worldly possesions will not remember you with love.
They will not mourn your passing. The time and money you saved will mean nothing.
I could not afford not to have children.

GH, you made me cry. That has to be one of the best things I've read all day. Thank you.

Grasshopper Green · 08-25-2005, 03:29 PM

onesnowyowl beat me to it. GH, that was beautiful.

I don't really have anything to add, as it's all be said before me. They are expensive, but you manage.

Sugarmouse · 08-25-2005, 06:13 PM

[QUOTE=ohh_shesus]My family keeps asking the dreaded question: When are you going to have a baby? Well, for one I'm not too keen of the thought of motherhood.

Then you shouldnt even need to ask the question...i agree with shakran..

only if you do want to be a mother should it be relevant..and i doo not know but wil gues when/if you do..you will find a way and not worry so much!

MSD · 08-25-2005, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohh_shesus

My family keeps asking the dreaded question: When are you going to have a baby?

"When you start paying for it."

boo_radley · 08-30-2005, 10:08 AM

My wife and I have a 4-month-old son who is the center of our lives. Honestly we afford it, because we choose to. Also, your sense of what is expensive changes drastically once you start to see what's available. That said, there are ways to control your costs, for instance, instead of day care you might try an Au Pair. You sould also never forget that Grandparents want to spend money on their little G-babies, so that is another way.

Even after shelling out all of our expendable income and them some, we are quite happy as our little one makes everything better.

JoeSixPack · 08-30-2005, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rubyee

It's true- it is only money.

Let's look at this from another point of view.

When I was a kid, I wore hand me down clothes and clothes we got from the salvation army. My favorite thing to do was decorate my clothes with puff-paint to make them seem new. I didn't have a pair of jeans until I entered junior high.

The mall to me was Target. It was not the toy store, followed by The Children's Place, followed by the theatre and the arcade. It was Target- get in, get out, and spend less than $50 on all three children and the parents.

Amen to this--the whole post, actually. When I see this figure of $250k to raise a child, I wonder whether that average is driven sharply up by people spending a heck of a lot more than they need to. I look around today and see all these little kids, from toddlerhood on, dressed in brand new Gap clothes... whatever happened to hand-me-downs (or inexpensive stores, like you mentioned)? I guess they're not good enough for some people's little angel.

(Hijack: how long has Target been around if you went there as a kid and are now an adult? It just came to the Philly area about 5 years ago, and I assumed then it was a new company.)

avhg1 · 08-31-2005, 06:48 AM

As a father of 4 boys (5, 4 & 8month twins) all I can say is that you make it work. We are in a good deal of debt, but not beyond reason. I have two cars, both less than 4 years old and own a house. I also pay for my own college and am paying off my wife's student loans. Currently, formula and diapers (non name brand) runs us about $80 a week. I'm the sole bread winner and do feel a bit of pressure at times. It's really the same as getting a raise at work, you think of all this money, but your life changes rather quickly to adjust to the difference. Before you know it, you feel the same financially as you did formerly.

08-23-2005, 09:03 AM	#2 (permalink)
Martian Young Crumudgeon Location: Canada	Is that all? Kids are expensive. That's the main reason I don't have any yet. I'm honestly surprised the total's that low, I would've figured it closer to half a mil. Sounds like a lot, but figure that's over nearly twenty years. __________________ I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

08-23-2005, 09:10 AM	#3 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	I rent mine out on weekends. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

08-23-2005, 09:41 AM	#5 (permalink)
Yakk Wehret Den Anfängen! Location: Ontario, Canada	They learn how to budget? That number looks like roughly 20% of their income. A big expense, but doable. Remember, with a baby, you'll have far less leisure time! __________________ Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

08-23-2005, 09:55 AM	#7 (permalink)
Fremen With a mustache, the cool factor would be too much Location: left side of my couch, East Texas	If you get a chicken instead, at least you can eat it if it gets too expensive. __________________ Google

08-23-2005, 09:59 AM	#8 (permalink)
Bill O'Rights will always be an Alyson Hanniganite Location: In the dust of the archives	You manage. You eat out less, you don't go to as many shows, you discover that "khaki's" don't have to be "Dockers", Land's End is...ended, you find that there is at least another year left in your car, you bring a sack lunch to work...there are ways, and you will find them. Kids ain't cheap. No question. But, as much as I bitch about mine, I wouldn't trade the little shits for anything in the world. There is nothing that I have ever purchased that has provided me with a greater return on my investment than my kids. Of course...it's been a few days since I've felt the need to strangle my oldest. __________________ "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

08-23-2005, 09:29 AM	#4 (permalink)
canuckguy I read your emails. Location: earth	a lady i use to work with use to say "if you wait until you can afford them, you'll never have them".

08-23-2005, 09:48 AM	#6 (permalink)
Xazy People in masks cannot be trusted Location: NYC	As one who does not have any yet (g-d willing when it is right we plan on having), I do not have the answer. But my brother while in law school had 2, my other brother had 1, when he was just beginning to make ends meet. For both of them, at that point it was very hard, but you do what you have to, and you make ends meet. I help out a relative by paying about 25% of the costs for school for his kids (they go to a private school)... But the point is, to get these bundles of joy, you have to make sacrifices, be willing to buckle down on expenses and do what has to be done.

08-23-2005, 10:36 AM	#9 (permalink)
World's King Here Location: Denver City Denver	I'm thinking more and more mothers-to-be are getting into porn. __________________ heavy is the head that wears the crown

08-23-2005, 10:51 AM	#10 (permalink)
mystmarimatt Omnipotent Ruler Of The Tiny Universe In My Mind Location: Oreegawn	I'm not even going to begin thinking about having kids until at least after grad school. Even then, chances are, we're going to adopt. Unless she's absolutely dying to go through childbirth, which I know she's not, we'd much rather help an orphaned child than contribute to the world's population. Besides, I don't want to be held responsible if the kid is ugly. Seriously, though. That's not as much when you consider it's over a period of many years. It just looks bad because it's been clumped into some huge number. Like BOR said, "you manage," if this weren't managable, it wouldn't be happening. __________________ Words of Wisdom: If you could really get to know someone and know that they weren't lying to you, then you would know the world was real. Because you could agree on things, you could compare notes. That must be why people get married or make Art. So they'll be able to really know something and not go insane.

08-23-2005, 12:08 PM	#11 (permalink)
Dano069 is Nucking Futs! Location: On the edge of sanity	Baby blood brings a high price on the black market! __________________ I may look attentive, but I'm taking peeks down your blouse faster than the human eye can follow.

08-23-2005, 03:05 PM	#13 (permalink)
shesus Fancy Location: Chicago	I must say that there are many interesting responses to this. I guess Bill O'Rights stated the hows pretty well. I don't want this to turn into a thread about me wanting or not wanting children. There is already a thread like that in the Living section. It was just that after talking to my friend, I was curious how people make ends meet. I know that if you wait until you can afford them you will never have them. Yet, I'm just surprised that my friend is writing a $1200 check a month for childcare and not even batting an eye. She actually looked at me as if I were the crazy one thinking that it was a lot. Curious to hear more about supporting a child without going homeless. __________________ Whatever did happen to your soul? I heard you sold it Choose Heaven for the weather and Hell for the company

08-23-2005, 03:23 PM	#14 (permalink)
analog Banned	Man, I could make a list of all the reasons for me not to have children... that would have to be almost at the tippy-top of the list.

08-23-2005, 03:42 PM	#15 (permalink)
ngdawg peekaboo Location: on the back, bitch	I'm willing to bet that if your friend added the cost of childcare to the cost of everything having to do with work, ie: commuting, clothing costs, etc-she'd find out she was working for next to nothing, maybe even less than nothing. I left work to stay home until the kids started school. Daycare would have been just over half my take home pay and the idea of someone else raising the kids I worked so hard to get was disgusting. Easy choice. While I was home, I did work at home, labelling kitchen items for an importer-I didn't make a lot but what I made was mine and it helped. BOR is right-once the kids come, you do cut back on some things simply because you don't have the time or need. We still did Friday night dinners out, just did it with two babies in tow. We cut out drinking beer and wine. I shopped at Walmart and BJ's Warehouse instead of Macy's. You make priorities is the bottom line. __________________ Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

08-23-2005, 03:44 PM	#16 (permalink)
Meditrina Junkie Location: LI,NY	I agree with the statement that if you wait until you can afford children, then you won't have any. My first came as a surprise. We were married, 1st year in the new house and not planning any kids, yet. We learned to budget our finances better and we both had to make some sacrifices. For awhile we didn't go on any vacations, except to family. oh and we both worked full time. If you want to have children, you find ways to afford them. __________________ "Toughness is in the soul and spirit, not in muscles." ~Alex Karras

08-23-2005, 07:01 PM	#17 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	While I'm not looking at the dollar cost of children, I'm looking at the time cost. I don't want to give up the time that I have to travel, go to broadway shows, barhopping, leaving at 12:30AM to go to a club to watch a live band, etc. If I look at the cost... sure it's expensive, but so are all the activities that I spend my free time doing also cost money. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

08-23-2005, 08:05 PM	#18 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	I waited till I could afford them. In other words, I did everything humanly possible to get a well paying career as soon as possible. I started working at 14, and I have not stopped since. I had $100k tucked away by the time I got married (a year and a half ago), and I STILL have to budget carefully. Yes, kids are expensive. For me, it's justt a part of life. I'd pay a million dollars just to hear my daughter laugh, though (even when she's been up all night singing to her teddy bear).

08-24-2005, 05:45 PM	#20 (permalink)
meembo Junkie Location: Connecticut	There are a lot of costs with having children, but never equate money with time and quality of care. Money makes many things easier, but it's not the most important thing. Kids don't remember small apartments or lack of trendy presents. They remember how much time they spend with mom and/or dad. __________________ less I say, smarter I am Last edited by meembo; 08-25-2005 at 06:44 AM..

08-24-2005, 06:15 PM	#21 (permalink)
raeanna74 I'm not a blonde! I'm knot! I'm knot! I'm knot! Location: Upper Michigan	Yes kids cost a lot initially (I think our hospital bill was around 8,000 for the c-section but thankfully we had lots of health insurance) and they grow out of clothes so fast that you can't imagine having to buy new shoes only 2 months after buying a previous pair but yet you find yourself doing it. There are many unexpected ways of saving money. You would be surprised what the difference in cost is between going out for one meal each day of the week opposed to packing a lunch and fixing meals from scratch at home. Even the prepared foods cost signifantly more than it would be to make something from scratch. I work from home doing childcare for other parents. When I have all the possible kids that I'm allowed, I can actually make more than hubby does at his decently paying job. I am still at home and NOT paying out half of my paycheck for childcare. We do not give our daughter allowance at least not yet and will not unless she does EXTRA jobs. An allowance won't be given for simply doing her responsibility. We do not buy brand name clothes unless we find them for a very good price. I frequently shop at thrift stores. I would like to think that I am a savy thrift store shopper because I cannot recall one criticism of our clothes but plenty of compliments. There are so many other things that we probably would do differently without a child's added cost. I must admit though that if I were given the choice I would not go back to not having a child. It is RUDE for anyone to suggest that you need a child. Especially if you are not ready for it. It would not hurt to even tell them outright that you feel they are being rude when they say such things. Hubby and I are content with one child and have decided to make that a permanant decision. We have gotten a few questions about it but once we were firm about our decision we have not recieved any more complaints. It's your life - do what is right for you. __________________ "Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

08-24-2005, 06:43 PM	#22 (permalink)
shesus Fancy Location: Chicago	Thank you all. I have been wondering this for awhile and hearing your stories makes sense. I guess I see parents all the time and they look like they're making ends meet. However, you never know what is actually going on. I'm also surprised by how many people were stay at home moms. Raeanna, what you did with the childcare sounds like something I might try if I do have a child. Since I have a teaching degree, I shouldn't have a problem with credibility. I guess your life does change when you have children, but it's nice to know that the sacrifices would be worth it. __________________ Whatever did happen to your soul? I heard you sold it Choose Heaven for the weather and Hell for the company

08-25-2005, 02:39 AM	#23 (permalink)
Daniel_ Evil Priest: The Devil Made Me Do It! Location: Southern England	Of course there's always the HUGE DEBTS option. That's the way I did it, and it makes for an interesting juggling act come pay day, but it's only money. __________________ ╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗ Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air, And deep beneath the rolling waves, In labyrinths of Coral Caves, The Echo of a distant time Comes willowing across the sand; And everthing is Green and Submarine ╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

08-25-2005, 06:39 AM	#25 (permalink)
tooth Addict	You just do it. There is no secret. You just do it. You have kids, and then you do the best that you can with what you have. They are only as expensive as you let them be. They don't have to have the best of everything to be happy, well adjusted kids. I sure as hell don't spend that kind of money on my kids, yet somehow they always have clothes to wear and food to eat. Gasp, it must be magic. Two best quotes in this thread... "If you wait until you can afford them, you'll never have them." and.. "It's only money."

08-25-2005, 08:17 AM	#26 (permalink)
Rubyee I'm baaaaack!	It's true- it is only money. Let's look at this from another point of view. When I was a kid, I wore hand me down clothes and clothes we got from the salvation army. My favorite thing to do was decorate my clothes with puff-paint to make them seem new. I didn't have a pair of jeans until I entered junior high. The mall to me was Target. It was not the toy store, followed by The Children's Place, followed by the theatre and the arcade. It was Target- get in, get out, and spend less than $50 on all three children and the parents. Dinner was never out. It was in. It was something simple out of a box with a can of vegetables. Lunch was always home lunch rather than school lunch. I had a sandwich and a quarter to buy a milk. It wasn't a sandwich and potato chips and a candybar and a juicebox like the lunch of everyone next to me. My parents couldn't have made more than $60,000 a year, especially since my father found it impossible to hold down a job for more than a year. But we survived. I didn't have my own car until I moved out and took out the loan for one. I bought my own clothes with the money I made holding down part time jobs in high school. When I look around at the kids I grew up with, the kids whose parents could spend a fortune on them, I am the one that should be fortunate. I have very little debt. I have a nice home and nice furniture to go inside it. I have a nice car. I have new clothes and shoes. I can go out to a nice dinner every once in a while just because I feel like it, because I understand the value of money, and what I need and don't need. I see the spoiled kids, and they are racking up the credit card debt, and their new cars are falling into disrepair because they are too expensive to afford insurance on so the accident they got into has not been fixed. They call home to mom and dad whenever they spend too much money on a new handbag or pair of leather shoes and can't buy ramen. It doesn't take a lot to raise a kid properly. Mostly you need values, morals, and love. Half of my parents had that, and I spent most of my childhood with the betterhalf. Yes, it is expensive, and I don't know how people afford day care, doctor's visits, and especially Back To School Clothes. But not having the newest stuff or the best food will not harm a child. If anything, it makes them stronger. Plus, low income households get a lot of help with things like day care and food for children. You can also just hope that your child turns out like me and is smart enough to start school a year before all the other kids. __________________ You don't know from fun.

08-25-2005, 10:04 AM	#29 (permalink)
splck it's jam Location: Lowerainland BC	if you want them, you'll be able to afford them. it's all a question of your priorities in life. __________________ nice line eh?

08-25-2005, 10:33 AM	#30 (permalink)
Rinndalir Insane	Yeah like others have said you make it work, somehow. A good point though is the TIME investment involved in having a kid. Something that was simple before like going to a movie or out to dinner with friends now becomes a major logistics challenge. Most people don't understand this and so are in for a big shock in addition to how much it costs when they have a kid. So if you're not willing to give up 99.99% of all your free time you need to think twice before you have one.

08-25-2005, 11:37 AM	#31 (permalink)
viejo gringo Registered User Location: Deep South Texas	52 years ago I got layed off and had to borrow $20 from my mom to get my baby out of the hospital.....it got a little worse, but then I got 3 job offers in one day and took them all... yea, there were times when we collected soda bottles and returned them for the deposit so we could buy food....BUT I would not change it for anything---lord how I loved that little baby girl.....so much that I had two more and remarried into three more---now I have 9 grandkids and 4 great grand kids----now THOSE are the expensive ones...paying for the collage books tonight.....ya got love'm..VG

08-25-2005, 11:51 AM	#32 (permalink)
Giant Hamburger Gastrolithuanian Location: low-velocity Earth orbit	No matter how much money you make you will grow old and die. When you are gone your worldly possesions will not remember you with love. They will not mourn your passing. The time and money you saved will mean nothing. I could not afford not to have children.

08-25-2005, 11:57 AM	#33 (permalink)
shesus Fancy Location: Chicago	Wow, I honestly didn't think I would get such a response from this. I am impressed. Rubyee, your response was very sweet and true. Looking at all the money I spend on my stuff, I think that I could swing it. Redlemon, the reason it is so hard to find a word that is not negative for selfishness is because I don't think one exists. I like to think that I am very unselfish because I refuse to bring a child into the world while I still like to spend for me and have a lot of free time. Selfish would be having the baby and neglecting it by still acting parentless. __________________ Whatever did happen to your soul? I heard you sold it Choose Heaven for the weather and Hell for the company

08-25-2005, 03:29 PM	#35 (permalink)
Grasshopper Green ...is a comical chap Location: Where morons reign supreme	onesnowyowl beat me to it. GH, that was beautiful. I don't really have anything to add, as it's all be said before me. They are expensive, but you manage. __________________ "They say that patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings; steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you king" Formerly Medusa

08-25-2005, 06:13 PM	#36 (permalink)
Sugarmouse Insane Location: Preston lancs(i know i know)	[QUOTE=ohh_shesus]My family keeps asking the dreaded question: When are you going to have a baby? Well, for one I'm not too keen of the thought of motherhood. Then you shouldnt even need to ask the question...i agree with shakran.. only if you do want to be a mother should it be relevant..and i doo not know but wil gues when/if you do..you will find a way and not worry so much! __________________ Sugarmouse=Festered

08-30-2005, 10:08 AM	#38 (permalink)
boo_radley Upright	My wife and I have a 4-month-old son who is the center of our lives. Honestly we afford it, because we choose to. Also, your sense of what is expensive changes drastically once you start to see what's available. That said, there are ways to control your costs, for instance, instead of day care you might try an Au Pair. You sould also never forget that Grandparents want to spend money on their little G-babies, so that is another way. Even after shelling out all of our expendable income and them some, we are quite happy as our little one makes everything better.

08-31-2005, 06:48 AM	#40 (permalink)
avhg1 Insane Location: MD	As a father of 4 boys (5, 4 & 8month twins) all I can say is that you make it work. We are in a good deal of debt, but not beyond reason. I have two cars, both less than 4 years old and own a house. I also pay for my own college and am paying off my wife's student loans. Currently, formula and diapers (non name brand) runs us about $80 a week. I'm the sole bread winner and do feel a bit of pressure at times. It's really the same as getting a raise at work, you think of all this money, but your life changes rather quickly to adjust to the difference. Before you know it, you feel the same financially as you did formerly. __________________ I shake the devil's hand daily... I'd do it hourly, but my hand gets tired.