crow_daw

Allright, so I grew up with a really close group of friends. Like brothers. And for the most part, we still are, but just like every big family has a black sheep, one of us is straying from the beaten path.

He's been surrounded by drugs his entire life, but he always stayed away from that when we were younger. We thought he had seen the horrors of drug abuse and wanted nothing to do with it. We were wrong.

He started behind our backs, he would just disappear for weeks at a time, and then turn up with some lame excuse like he was in Indiana with a friend of his. Shit like that. Then he came clean and finally told us what he had been doing. And what he had been doing was pretty much everything, I don't know much about drugs, but I know that you can get your hands on just about anything you want where I live, and he's been into all of it.

Well, we tried to help him, you know. Tried every possible angle, and everytime he acts receptive, like he knows we're right and he wants help, but then I swear to you, he'll say he's going to the bathroom and just walk right out of the house to go smoke crack and not come back. Last night he stole seven dollars off another member of our tightly-knit group. It's getting very severe.

Has anyone else experienced something like this? What did you do? What should we do?

This is just something that I know we're not prepared to handle, so any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

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"We each have a star, all we have to do is find it. Once you do, everyone who sees it will be blinded." - Earl Simmons

maleficent

He's your friend and it's brutal to see someone you care about be in that situation.

He knows he's engaging in self-destructive behavior. He knows what he's doing is bad for him. He has to know that stealing from his friends is only going to have bad things happen. He also knows, that right now you guys do care about him - but for how much longer...

Does he want to get help and just cant? Or does he just not want to stop?

In talking to him, without screaming, or yelling or going on the drugs are bad preaching... find out what's going on in his life, is he escaping something with drugs? bored?

Not sure where in tennessee you are, but doing some googling, on Narcotics anonymous, there are a bunch of listings for Tennessee... maybe doing some research there would be helpful or giving him some info on meetings he could attend.

But bottom line, until he realizes he has a problem and wants help for that problem there's not a lot you can do... you might even want to step back from him and not spend as much time with him (don't write him off completely, because when he realizes he has a problem... he's going to need you guys) but just be less available to him

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MSD

As a friend, you need to drag him to Narcotics Anonymous meetings. I am one of the people who believes that almost anything can be used responsibly, and that almost nobody does. He can't, and you have to help him stop.

I am reminded of the classic religious poem, "Footprints in the Sand." As an agnositc and a non-believer in divine intervention, I really don't feel particularly strongly about divine help, but I think that our firends and family can be the ones who carry us through hard times. If you are religious, and you do believe in divine help, remember that in biblical accounts, God worked through others many times instead of reaching down from the clouds. If you're inclined to believe in such things, consider that it could be God calling you to fidn the lost sheep.
Now that I'm done being philosophical, I'll leave you with the harsh reality. If nobody helps your friend, you're going to have to decide who among your group are going to walk alongside his family as pallbearers. Trust me, anything you can do to save your friend is worth it.

ShaniFaye

oh the stories I could tell you about the household I live in (it would probably be easier if you go and read my journal entries pertaining to my ex husband and his g/f though)

My ex hubby started smoking crack 9 months about (or maybe a tad longer Im not sure)

I watched the man I've known for 15 years (because we still live in the same house), go from bad to worse to totally intolerable.

He's pawned everything he held near and dear to him, including his 1972 Les Paul, which he got 100 bucks for and smoked it up in a few hours, along with all his other guitars, all his very valuable nascar die casts all his guns including a very valuable colt 45 among other things (including things that didnt belong to him)

He hasnt held a job at all since October of last year, his vehicle has been reposessed, he sells his g/f out for sex to take care of his habit. They shoplift things and take them to other stores to return them to get store credits in the way of store cards with X amount of dollars on them which they go and trade for crack. When he has to go more than two hours without a hit he goes into steroidal type rages that end up with him beating his g/f, threatening me and his mother.

He got mad at his mother 3am on mothers day because he was in a rage and she wouldnt give him his gun that she'd been keeping at her house (next door to us) and called the cops on her, he got the gun back and turned around last week and pawned it (thats the colt 45).

Every morning when dave and I get up, there is some wacky new crackhead either sleeping in my back bedroom or sitting in my living room.

I could go on......but I wont....long story short, his g/f has been on it 4 years, he's coming up on a year.....he has days where he swears he wont touch it and in a few hours you can hear the lighters clicking on the other side of the house.

I, and his family have tried everything....I am currently trying to get something set up where he is caught for something and thrown in jail.

I am very afraid to say, the chances are 90% your friend will not stop on his own and he will either end up dead or in jail.

ALL of my ex's friends have deserted him because all he did was use them, they all tried to help, nothing worked. I've tried to help, I get physically threatened.

Im sure some people will blast me for this, but considering I've been living in the same house with it for a very long time, and every weekend I get woken up by either them fighting or the cops being here....there is nothing you can do.....get away from it now before it affects you anymore than it already has and feel free to PM me if you need to talk. I feel for you I really do, there is nothing worse than watching someone you care about slowly kill themselves, just be glad for you that its not the father of your child.

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Daniel_

12 step programmes are the only way I have ever seen anyone get clean and stay clean when they dabbled with the hard stuff.

It's miserable, but your friend needs comitted professional help.

Good luck.

ShaniFaye

12 step programs only work for those that want help.....trust me I know, I was in one many moons ago when I was younger for a coke problem (we are talking like 16 years ago) they are a joke to people who dont want to stop.

true story.....ex hubby's g/f had to go to them by order of the court, I agreed to go to one with her, she sneered at everyone there, made fun of them then tried to get in my car and light up. And, I kid you not, there were people in this group that I'd known 15 years earlier from my own group....still there by court order.

Watch the movie clean and sober with micheal keaton (old movie from the 80's), its very true to life, and the most significant scene in there was where MK's sponsor told him that until he hits rock bottom he will not want to help himself....and for his sponsor rock bottom was the day he stood in front of a mirror bashing his nose in with a hammer. The movie will help give you a little perspective on what you're dealing with and some lengths people will go to....even when they are in a 12 stepper.

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

maleficent

A few years ago, I went thru a training program to work on a suicide hotline (Not a how to line, a prevention line) One of the things we had to do was go to a few AA meetings and an NA meeting if we could find one. Personally I thought it was a huge invasion of people's privacy intruding on this meeting, but I went... It was interesting -- some people were there clearly because they needed help and it was a supportive environment (though it rarely made people responsible for their drinking)There were some people who hadn't had a drink in years... and would move heaven and earth to help others... Then on the opposite end of the spectrum, I met some p eople after the meeting at a local bar, and a handful of people from the AA meeting were in the bar drinking.

12 step programs work -- IF a person wants them to work... Taking them to a meeting maybe they will hear something that will click with them.. and it will give them a reason to want to get clean.

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guthmund

You can only help those that want it. He's paying lip service right now. Telling you what you want to hear and then making off with what he can palm.

Help him when you can and that means calling him on his shit (like stealing...). Don't hold him to some lesser standard just because of his drug problem.

As long as he sees no problem with his little adventures, there's absolutely nothing you can say to get him clean. It's like that last mile of a marathon (not that I've ever run a marathon, but...you know..I read things..) you got to want it and right now he doesn't want it. Just be sure to be there when he does.

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No signature. None. Seriously.

MsNobody

Its a very strong addiction we are talking about here. You don't think that most of the people, addicted to this drug, don't want to stop? They don't wake up every fucking day of their miserable crack addicted lives and wish they could go back to THAT day?THAT day when "normal", ceased to exist, and the slow hell that they know now, as their lives, took over? The endless paranoid nights, just sitting, and I mean literally sitting in the same exact position for 15 - 20 hours, without moving - yeah, I bet they want that more. It could be the erratic mood swings or even the loss of teeth, thats always fun and I am sure painless, not to mention, very attractive - maybe that's what they want more.
We all make choices in life, on THAT day, the first day you decide you are going to try smoking crack, well, don't worry, you won't forget that day - it will be the only day you will ever remember. There have been people who have successfully quit, and have stayed clean, but, very few. It wasn't because they finally wanted to, they were just able to. Until you know what its like to have that craving, the one you will do anything, and I do mean anything, to be able to feed that craving, you really don't have any idea, how bad this addiction is. Less than 10% of people who have tried to quit smoking crack, have been successful, I cannot believe that over 90% are still using, simply because they don't "want" to quite - it's alot stronger than any 12 step or 12 week rehab can handle. If it were simply as easy as wanting it strongly enough, they would have a much higher success rate.
They need to figure out exactly what that drug is physically and mentally doing to the body, and figure out a way to stop it's control. The longer a person uses, the less likely they will be able to ever quit. The use of meth, or crack is already at alarming numbers, that keep getting higher everyday. The fact that there is no cure or even a program, that has been proven to keep someone clean and sober, for any length of time - should have people very worried.

mokle

Why don't you focus your efforts on something more productive... like moving out?

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Mokle
"Your hands can't hit what your eyes can't see" -Ali

ShaniFaye

so my house can be foreclosed on because he cant/wont pay for it? and because of the terms of the divorce we are both responsible for it? A house that I have worked my ass of for almost 10 years to pay for? And because his name is both on the property and the mortgage (we owend the property before the house was built) and the cops, lawyers, you name it, have told me that I have no RIGHT to kick him out....because he has put liens on the house to bail his g/f out of jail when she got arrested for possession and selling it would leave me with NOTHING....do I need to keep going?

I swear, and Im sorry this isnt entirely directed at you, but I told Dave in tears this morning at 1am, if ONE more person says....well why dont you move out I was going to go postal.

First off, we have been looking for a place to move to where I can afford both a rent payment AND a mortgage payment, Im in Atlanta, thats not an easy thing to do. 2nd off, if we leave the house will be destroyed, he's already threatened to burn it down.

I know people mean well when they say that, but jesus christ, do you really think I WANT to be living in this? Do you think I'm NOT trying to do what it takes to get away from it?


My sister was a crack addict for years.....she successfully got off after using for 4 years, no drug treatment program, no 12 steps, just the desire to better her life when my parents took her child away and her ex husband was committed for 1st degree murder because he shot someone in the face while they slept because they wouldnt wake up to give him more dope. She stopped...cold turkey...it wasnt easy but she did it, and I have more admiration for her than anyone will ever know, especially now.

Sober they think they dont have a problem.....Fucked up they dont care about anyone but themselves and their next hit.

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Grasshopper Green

/threadjack

Shani, I didn't know the specifics of your living situation, but I knew it was bad. I'm very sorry to hear about it. Living with people on drugs is NOT fun; I hope everything works out in the end for you...you are a terrific lady and you deserve it.

/end threadjack

crow, I have to agree with the people who say that no one quits until they are really, really ready to quit. I've seen too many people say they want to quit and then go over to their dealers house later in the day. Trying to help will only get you so far, and it is admirable, but until the user decides to meet you halfway, there is really nothing you can do.

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"They say that patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings; steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you king"

Formerly Medusa

ShaniFaye

Medusa99 thanks, I honestly dont mean this thread to turn into any kind of pity for me. A few, not many, friends here know the nitty gritty of whats going on (mainly because if I do talk about it all I ever hear is some variation of the phrase "you really need to move out") but also because I really hate focusing on ME, I like to try to help other people. The only reason I posted all the details I did was so that Crow would know exactly what he's up against in trying to help his friend. I wanted him to kind of see a "day in the life of a person you care about thats hooked on crack" so to speak.

It is a serious serious addiction, one that leaves the non addict feeling helpless, useless, enraged, and taken advantage of. I also wanted him to know that if he tries and fails to help his friend, that its not HIS failure.

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

maleficent

Just tried to do some googling on how to stage an intervention for your friend... most of the resources it brings up are professionan interventioners... Maybe it does require a professional in case people get in over their heads.

What I might try to do with him is lay my cards on the table -- if you are angry at his behavior - say so - if you are hurt by his behavior - say so... A drug abuser (and alcohol abuser as well --which is where most of my experience lies) doesn't see what their behavior does to the people that care about them.

Ask him point blank if he wants to stop. Crack I realize is a pretty powerful drug and people won't necessarily want to stop because of what it does for them. Ask him if he likes what he's becoming... stealing from his friends and lying to his friends. That may be enough reason to stop.

Layout a plan for him to get the help. You guys will be with him along the way to hold him up... but honestly, unless you've been in that situation, you don't know what he's going thru... That's why somehting like NA might be great because he could get a sponsor who's been thru all the stages and knows what to expect.

If he doesn't follow thru on the plan.. then what? Yes, he might stumble a few times... but accountability will be important.. it will be just as hard for you guys as well... If he steals from you? What will you do... remember you are doing this because you love him and you want to help him... it might be something pretty drastic that you have to do. Follow thru on whatever you say you will do... Don't let him get away with anything.

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Redjake

Is there a Narcotics Anonymous group in your area? My dad and mom were both addicted to drugs and alcohol when me and my brother were young and they both got clean from drugs with the NA program. Check and see if there are any in your area and get your friend there. One thing: He has to want to stop or else it's not going to work.

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Off the record, on the q.t., and very hush-hush.

ophelia783

Just remember, you can't help someone who has no desire to get help....

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~*~* He with a sharp tongue slits his own throat *~*~

crow_daw

I am very grateful for, but not surprised by, the amount of caring responses I've received already. Thank you guys so much for that.

Now, I'm not sure if there are NA programs in my area, because I mean when I say small town for my location, I mean small town. If there isn't an NA program, there should be, because for such a small town, the amount of serious drug abuse is alarming. But this friend is the only one I'm close to who's having serious problems. But like many of you have said, he has to want help, and I don't think he does. Not yet. I honestly think he needs to hit rock bottom first, but I'm afraid of that. I think rock bottom is gonna be jail time or, worse, an OD. But as long as he's not dead, I think it would be worth it.

I have thought about ratting him out myself, because I think jail might be the only thing next to an OD that might actually wake him up. But I just can't do that. It seems like there should be some other way. But we're not his only friends anymore. If we try to push him too much I don't think it'll take much at all for him to completely give up on us. His other group of friends are the ones who got him started in the first place, and they totally support his getting high. If we piss him off by downing him about the shit, he just runs to them and gets his fix. And now of course, I'm sure he's starting to feel like they're his real friends.

The situation is just so completely fucked up.

I just don't know.

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"We each have a star, all we have to do is find it. Once you do, everyone who sees it will be blinded." - Earl Simmons

maleficent

Are there any hospitals or medical centers nearby you, many of them will have NA type programs. What about a local church?

AA and NA meetings are anonymous, they don't often do a lot of advertising for meetings, so there might very well be meetings held...

As long as he has easy access, and people who enable him, he won't stop using. It's a shitty position for you to be in and I really am sorry for you for watching a friend go thru this and the helpless feeling it is.

I'm not sure how much you can really do except let him know that you still care about him, and that his life is worth something and you will be there when he needs a hand out of the hole he's dug for himself.

It's really nice to see that caring friends do exist... Hopefully your friend will recognize that before it's too late.

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