Cynthetiq

In another thread quadro2000 made me think of the natural progression of the friends giving you it honestly and the feelings of dealing with being "wrong."

Constructive criticism is hard to take that's for sure. We all do say that we can handle it, but can you really? We can all talk the talk, but can we walk the walk? Can you give an example of how you did deal with it?

For myself, every once in a while when I get into a room with a certain group of family and friends, it seems time to be "intervention time" or "pick on cynthetiq". It's not done with malice, it's done with the intention of love, and people sat down and outlined where I was falling short and what I needed to do to be better.

I recall sitting there, thinking to myself that "I know what's good for me, and how can these people who sit outside of me know anything about what goes on in my head."

By the time the second and third ones happened, I was ready to use it as a learning experience to augment the other learning that I was doing on my own. It was to help me fine tune what I didn't see because I was standing too close to it.

Personally, I know that it makes me a better person. While I don't relish it as much as being wrong at this point in my life, I do see it as very useful, especially when I remember "that which does not kill me makes me stronger."

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aberkok

I haven't experienced this lately, and this makes me uncomfortable. I feel like all the aspects of my life that I've been neglecting will come to a head and I'll be in big trouble. I've been riding on luck for too long.

I guess it's time for me to be criticised, and I think I've got that coming up. I'll be heading to a workshop which is basically intensive music school for 3 weeks, and I expect to get a chance to "walk the talk" when I'm told "I'm not really swinging," or "you obviously don't practice enough," or the one I'm dreading the most: "you don't love the music enough."

I aim not to get defensive. In the words of Tim from "The Office:" It's better to be at the bottom of a ladder you want to be on then half-way up one you don't.

I will be sure to update y'all on what things I didn't want to learn about myself.

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quadro2000

Oooh, I inspired a thread!

What a tough question. Our willingness to accept constructive criticism, I think, is often dependent on how we've received it in the past - and that has to do with how it was delivered. Giving constructive criticism is an art form. I think people can definitely deliver it in a way that is damaging to the recipient, and that would naturally turn one off to receiving the criticism.

Are you asking if we can "walk the walk," in dealing with taking the criticism, or walking the walk in actually accepting the criticism and using it to better ourselves?

I'm trying to think of an example, but all that's coming to mind now is that the relationship between actor and director is really an exercise in constructive criticism. There have been many rehearsals where I've known outright that I'm just stinking up the place. But no director has ever come up to me and said, "that was awful," or "you can't act." Instead, the director's job is to tell you what you need to do to better your performance, and that itself is a form of constructive criticism. I do think this counts, because while acting is somewhat an exercise in make-believe, the actual process of acting is extremely personal.

When I'm given constructive criticism in this context, sometimes it hurts, but only if I have no idea that I was doing anything wrong. Usually, instinctually, I know when I suck. So I am usually able to take it and improve. But again, this is based on a fictional character. I guess it's been a while since someone has really criticized me for real-life events. Again, we'd all like to think we can take it...but I think it really has to do with the situation and how the criticism is delivered.

(this didn't answer a damn thing, did it.)

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streak_56

Well... I will use an example of myself where I could show how I take it.

Recently I've been having a little rant/depression episode. So I talked about it to my girlfriend. And holy s**t was that a reality check. Most of my depression is caused by myself with hardly anyone affecting it. She gave me a good check of where I figured out what my problem will be. She told me that no one can help myself other than me. Which is true since it is an internal problem that causes these problems. And yes, I know what it is.

My Dad does the same thing all the time. He makes sure that I am on the right path, with my actions along with my future. He makes sure I have all my facts straight before I can do anything. It's basically the same thing as above, but more of a preventative measure instead of a realization.

My willingness to accept it... hmmm.... it definately depends. After what went on a few days ago, I would've told you that I readily accept criticism with the greatest of reactions. But after a few nights ago, I found out that I take to heart criticism. That even through criticism people will still like us, they're just trying to help us. I get pissed off though, because I know I always want to be right. But thats never the case. I guess sometimes we create our own truths because reality is too harsh for us (or me) to accept. I found it funny that I give criticism but I never listen to myself, because the same thing that I would say to other people, applied to myself. You just need the right person to turn it around and tell it to you.

I thank my girlfriend (Lead543) for doing that, it's helped me figure out alot of things.

TM875

Being an under-30 white male, my friends constantly provide me with "constructive" criticism (that is, poking fun at me whenever the oppurtunity arises). Of course, being of equally sound mind, I toss it right back at them in equal amounts.

Criticism, in all forms, if often difficult to take. There's always the time when what they say cuts a little deep. Serious constructive criticism can be even more painful. In the end, it does help you become a better you (or strengthens the fuck-you-I'll-be-who-I-am attitude in time), but there also has to come along with it support of who you are and what you're doing. A friend poking fun at your heavy drinking or chasing after young ladies might just cause you to watch your ass in the future. Likewise, a director (music director in my case) gives you the advice that he thinks will push your into a better performance.

In response to quadro:
Now, in my semi-professional music career, I've often heard a "What the hell was that? That sucks!" from a director (I've also had batons and music stands thrown at me, but that's another story. Passive-aggressive conductors and all that...). And you know what? Often times I know that it was warrented and expected it. Maybe I'm a little twisted, but that type of criticism actually hurts less that something like "Perhaps a little cleaner in section such-and-such" or the intolerable "Your solo chord progessions certainly were...interesting".

In the end, I think that the acceptance of criticism is completely based upon the person's view of himself and what he thinks he needs work on. If someone is offering criticism on something that we think we did perfectly well, it can result in hurt feelings, anger, or even despair. On the other hand, if we knew that we needed assistance or work, the criticism might lead us in the right direction. After all, nothing annoys me more than being praised glowingly when I know that a performance sucked.

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"I've made only one mistake in my life. But I made it over and over and over. That was saying 'yes' when I meant 'no'. Forgive me."

Seeker

*sigh* I'm still waiting for someone to call me on my bullshit...

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OPgary

[B]It kind of depends HOW the criticism is given and by whom.

maleficent

When I see it, I will... haven't seen any yet...

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maleficent

With some people I can come right out and say exactly what is on my mind, and I don't have to sugar coat it at all... If someone is acting like a self-destructive dumbass, I will tell them. The reason why I would tell them, is because I care. (tough love shoudl be my middle name) If I didn't care, I would try a different approach, and then if that got nowhere, I would just walk away. (though I might return later, with a different way, because I don't like quitting on people)

Tough love doesn't work for everyone... there has to be a prior relationship, and the person that you are tough loving has to know where they stand with you. They have to unequivocally know that you are doing this for them.. and not just beating them when they are down...That is a very tough line to cross.

Of late, with me, my confidence has taken a nosedive and my trust of the outside world has crashed and burned, because I don't know where I stand with some people, I'm not sure I could take being smacked around - -even if it is for my own good. I tend to smack myself harder than anyone around me ever could.

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CSflim

Very true.

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Seeker

yes and thankyou!, it'll make my life a bit easier.
Like you mal(toughlove)eficient.. I too am my hardest critic

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To those who wander but who are not lost...

~ Knowledge is not something you acquire, it is something you open yourself to.

MsNobody

The problem with constructive criticism, it's just someone else's opinion. Who says they're right? People say that I am too blunt, that I tell it like it is, no, I tell it, the way that I see it, big difference. If someone asks my opinion, I give it, I never just offer it. I also say, I may not agree with what you are doing and you need to remember that's just how I think and what I would do, doesn't make me right...for you.
Now, on the other hand, I never ask for anyone's opinion, when it comes to me, why? I know what they are going to say. I live my life for me, I may not always be right, but, it's still my choice. I can talk the talk, when it comes to the walk, well, I'll just keep on walking my own way.

Elphaba

Mal? *Smack* Dammit girl, you are just thinking about it too much. Relax a little bit, would you? Even squirrels like you have real friends, or some that would like to be.

My sister-in-law came to visit this weekend and we haven't seen each other in eight years. We catch up with our girl-talk and I share something with her about the sex life that her brother and I don't have. Whoa... she is all over me insisting that this must be fixed immediately and I'm the one that has to do it. (True).

I feel run over by a freight train, but in my heart I know that she is right. It's up to me now to take her advice (hammer to the head) or not.

rainheart

The problem is that constructive criticism is just another form of criticism... and criticism harbours resentment.

Suggestions, ideas to consider, and posing your words in such a way that triggers the person you are talking with to feel as if what you said is something they came to recognize on their own... now THAT leads to constructive results.

cierah

'Advice is like snow - the softer it falls, the longer it dwells upon and the deeper it sinks into the mud.'

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ratbastid

The ability to take constructive criticism (or coaching or correction or call it what you will) is actually something you can train yourself in.

I participate in a leadership training program. I spent a year in training to lead that program, and then led it for a while. When I was in training I taught myself to "turn on a dime". A lot of my training was "on the court"--the person training me would actually put me at the front of the course room to lead a section, and coach me out loud in public while I did it. I had to deal with looking like I didn't know what I was doing, being told I was doing it wrong in public (in front of the people I'm supposed to be training!), etc, etc.

Eventually I understood that I could provide something for my students by actually DEMONSTRATING taking correction and coaching right there in the moment, because that's one of the things they're being trained in too. Doesn't mean my blood didn't run hot for a half a second, but I got to where I could stop myself, hear what I was being told, and implement it immediately.

Of course, that was in a context where I trusted the person giving me the input 110%. I don't necessarily have that same level of trust for everybody.

Seeker

This is so true! I decided myself that to take criticism constructively I had to develop a stronger sense of self. That way, it doesn't matter if the criticism was delivered harshly or gently.. if I could be OK with it, I could walk away and decide how much credence I gave it and adjust (or not) accordingly.

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To those who wander but who are not lost...

~ Knowledge is not something you acquire, it is something you open yourself to.

Zeraph

Constructive criticism is even harder to give than receive as its often not really constructive but just plain old criticism. I think it could even be argued that there is no such thing as constructive criticism.

Demeter

The hard thing about criticism is to realize that you
are probably angry at yourself,
and not the person laying down the facts for you.
It is hard at first, but if you can keep an open mind,
accepting criticism can get easier. Then its the other hard part -
doing something about it to make yourself a better person.

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chickentribs

I have a couple of friends where we have open, 2-way communication and because they listen to me I can usually put my ego aside and open up to what they are saying. Unfortunately that doesn't help with the rest of the world that I should be listening to as well. I catch myself frequently organizing rebutals in my head instead of listening to whomever I am speaking with

Ironically, it seems that the people I trust and respect the most are the ones that my defenses kick hardest with. Isn't that charming??

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and most oft there Where most it promises
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Supple Cow

I think I can comfortably say I am able to walk the talk. For me, though, that includes delayed walks. I think break-ups (no matter how tactful they may be) are always a form of constructive criticism, and the criticism often flows both ways. I can recall a specific break-up where I swore I could handle it (because I kind of I saw it coming), but then I reacted poorly on a number of occasions afterward. It took me a while to actually start behaving like I was okay with it, but the lessons weren't lost on me when I was reacting - they were just harder lessons to swallow, and swallow them I did.

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"I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. Twenty-six times I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."
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jwoody

I can just imagine that class.

Week 1: Everybody listening and attentive.

Week 10: Everybody thinking "I'd be better than this guy (Ratbastid)."

Cynthetiq

Interesting, we're taught lots of socializations, but that is definitely one we are not taught nor do we ask other people how they deal with it.

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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

ratbastid

Well, that was what I was afraid of, for sure! Turned out they all hoped they could be as good at me at taking coaching and correction.

pinkie

That statement alone tells me that you hold yourself accountable, and would be open to constructive criticism.

There's a HUGE difference between "constructive" criticism, and negative criticism. Negative criticism can make you think, but it also hurts your feelings, and the person dishing it doesn't care. Constructive criticism can be helpful, but also has the potential of cutting like a knife. I've been on the both sides many times. Some of the hardest things to hear were from a friend that I no longer speak to because of the mean, hurtful, catty, rude, intentionally malicious way she gutlessly confronted me. (Of all places, over the internet ) She basically ended our friendship that day, but you know what? I learned something - I learned that I want nice friends and not friends I feel like I have to "walk on eggshells" around. Friends that can “tell it like it is" without tactlessly insulting me in the process. For months though what she said to me (actually the names she called me) stuck in my head, and I did strive to better myself because of the echo of her nasty words.

Lemons to Lemonade...

So yeah, I can take it. I may or may not agree with you, but I think it's impossible for me not to take it into consideration. I weigh it on the scales, find the lesson, and move on.

I took that poll a while back that you posted cyn. I’m one of the 25 who said, “Yes, I am wrong sometimes.”

Isn't that what life's all about? If I already knew it all, how could I learn?