majik_6

To all the vegetarians/vegans (especially those who do it for ethical reasons):

I'm really interested to hear your personal reasons for giving up the flesh. Also, please include other information that you feel is related (how long you've been veg, what "degree" of vegetarianism you practice, etc).

I'll start


I'm an ovo-lacto vegetarian, and have been for a little over two years. I chose to give up meat out of a sudden ethical concern. Although I had given up hunting quite some time ago, and had never felt quite right killing things, I continued eating meat until Febuary 2nd, 2001 (?). That day, I randomly decided to take the jump (again, since I'd tried veg in grade school) for good.

To clarify, I don't do this as any sort of social protest or big commentary on the meat industry, but rather just cause I like animals (I'm the sappiest 270 pound-West-Virginian-punk/freak biker-looking-artsy-welder-kinda-guy I know).

MacGnG

i dont understand vegan(no animal products at all) vegitarian is fine but vegsan i think is too much and all the food is like tofu or something strange. but if they like it whatever

i like animals... they taste yummy

Cynthetiq

While I understand being Vegetarian to whatever capacity...and I sometimes will eat vegetarian meals...

I don't understand the whole... "veggie chicken meat" "veggie beef" and the like. Why make it something that you didn't or don't want to eat anyways?

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4thTimeLucky

tried vegetables once. BIG mistake. i'm back to meat now

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majik_6

I know that for me, the veggie chicken and the like is a real life saver, since it's not that I don't like meat, I just feel weird about killing the animal to get the meat. A lot of vegetarians have certain foods that they still desire, but would rather just give up than abandon their vegetarian diet. I think that's where these products come into play. My two things that I praise Gardenburger for are their Riblets (just like McDonald's) and "chicken" pattie sandwiches. Both are absolutely delicious and they help me to keep to my vegetarian guidelines, since I don't feel like I'm missing anything.

Any other vegetarians that care to weigh in on the fake meat issue?

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harry

Im with majik on this one. We dont have to kill animals in order to survive - and its a terrible thought that millions and billions of living beings are slaughtered every year without necessity.

That said, I have to confess that, allthough I decided to be a vegetarian years ago, I lack the moral strenght of the likes of majik and I'm afraid my meat consumption is not much below average, if at all. I lead a life of inconsequence and guilt.

platypus

Vegetables aren't food. Vegetables are what food eats.

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SiN

sure

first, i don't understand why people don't understand the whole 'fake meat' thing....

especially considering that there are more reasons for being vegetarian other than just not liking meat...

:shrug:

neways...

i quite like the 'fake meat' products on occasion...

i've even had Tofurkey on Thanksgiving once

my favorites are prolly the fake chicken burgers and fake turkey sandwich meat...

unfortunately, here in Germany, the selection of fake meat products is much less than in the USA. so, you who like it, consider yourself lucky

however, here at McDonalds, we've got 'Veggie Mac's'. YuM.

oh...and regarding the whole thread...

is good post, and a brave one - seems to be kinda tendency towards 'masculine carnivore' around here (not that it's bad, i can totally respect that...just i wouldn't've had the guts to make such a thread)

n e ways....

reasons?

wel, i've been vegetarian for over 10 years (it started as new years resolution) ..

why?
started out as more of an ethical thing...i read "Animal Liberation" by Peter Singer, and basically started for all the reasons in that book...

and as time went on...i'm still ethically opposed to eating meat, but i recognise it as a purely personal decision, i respect others choosing to eat meat, or whatever.

and as time went on, i became more appreciative of the health benefits of it. my body seems quite pleased with a vegetarian diet.

afaik, it's a lifelong thing for me...

oh, and i'm technically an 'ovo-lacto-pesco-vegetarian'.

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Cynthetiq

my point isn't about the fake meat thing being something weird..but why not call it something different than what it is trying or pretending to be?

at least saeten isn't claiming it's fake ground beef but it does work as a good replacement.

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majik_6

I think that the naming of Chikn Patties, Tofurkey and the like is:

a. Imply that it is meant as a substitute for given meat

b. it's a marketing ploy

BTW, SiN, how is the Tofurkey? I've been wanting to purchase some, but the price is pretty high if it's not any good.

I'm glad to see that there are a variety of opinions on this subject.

Also, I think this thread kinda shows the total respect that all TFP members show towards each other. A thread like this was posted on another site (a good one, also, don't get me wrong) and it turned into nothing but a flamewar with vegans condemning meateaters as murderers (not all the vegans did this) and the meateaters calling the vegs hippies or stupid (once again, not all did this, but the most vocal ones did). It's wonderful to see that there's a place on the net that supports open discussion and respect. All hail TFP!

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Tirian

I was raised in a vegetarian family, and only started eating a bit of meat after I moved out. Now I call myself 90% vege, which means I occasionally have a dish with beef or chicken in it.

I have had lots and lots of the fake meats in my lifetime (in fact my dad used to work in one of the original manufactures plants), and being acclimatized, I found meat kinda strange and weird at first.

My opinion on using them currently is YES IT's GOOD STUFF.

1: It can be used in recepies calling for meat, for folks who want to eat vegetarian, this can simplify cooking, and allow them to eat foods normally seen in recipes.

2: It can be used to help adjust from a meat diet to a vegetarian diet, without as much of an abrupt change.

3: It is MUCH lower in fat etc. and can be eaten by folks who are working on a reduced calorie diet. For instance a product that is available near me (called "Griller") can be used instead of a beef burger, and you get way less calories/fat.

4: Easier to use. I'm no expert here, but possibly less prep work involved in some of these products over their meat equivelent.

5: Taste - some of these products taste great. The BACON replacement I buy is really good, and even some of the guys at work like it. They call it guilt free BLT time.!!!

Kyp

I've read of a lot of vegitarians who don't eat meat but do eat fish. This is completely beyond me how they can not justifty eating animals, but can justifty eating fish. Anyone in here who could enlighten me on that?

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Tirian

In case you wanted to know...
Some information on two of my favorite meat substitute products. I also like the Loma Linda brand and our grocer carries Yves, which I also eat.

The bacon I like is called "stripples" from Worthington.
http://www.kelloggs.com/products/morningstar/

Here's a little nutritional info

Two strips of..
STRIPPLES
--------------
Total fat: 4.5g
Total Cal: 60
Cal from fat: 40
Sat fat: .5g
Cholestoral: 0mg
Protien: 2g

BACON
---------------
Total fat: 6.24g
Total Cal: 72.6
Cal from fat: 56
Sat fat: 2.21g
Cholestoral: 10.77mg
Protien: 3.86g

source for bacon...it was linked from a pork industry site so...
http://www.diet-data.com/pork_produc...ed_or_roasted/
source for stripples - see above.

The Morningstar Farms Grillers Veggie Burgers are my fav vege-burgers.

64 GRAM GRILLER
----------------
Total fat: 6g
Total Cal: 140
Cal from fat: 60
Sat fat: 1g
Cholestoral: 0mg
Protien: 15g

64 GRAMS of Burger King burger
----------------
Total fat: 14.8g
Total Cal: 208
Cal from fat: 133
Sat fat: 5.9g
Cholestoral: 60mg
Protien: 16.4g

Source for BK data (ratio for a 64g burger)
http://www.burgerking.com/Food/nutri...0,;1&mt=1&dp=1

majik_6

Thanks for the facts!

As far as the fish thing, I have friends that do that, and they usually have different reasons for it.

One is veg. for ethical reasons, but doesn't feel bad about killing fish. Some don't eat redmeat in order to lower their fat intake, and fish fits well into their health plan.

Myself, I think fish are way too cute to eat, and the "meal to death" ratio is too high for me (1 meal usually equals 1 animal)

On the subject of saving lives, PETA reports that the average vegetarian saves 83 lives per year! (not harping on the killing issues, just thought it was a neat statistic)

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Cynthetiq

marketing and simplification of cooking.. that I can agree with. I go to a vegetarian chinese joint in NYC everyonce in a while.. and I kinda still think it strange that they say they have fake chicken and fake beef. I guess it's better than calling it imitation. But doesn't "fake" also mean that same connotation that most veggies are trying to stay away from which is processed?

The griller isn't that much different in caloric content. Yes the fat content is different, but as far as total calories... you aren't saving a whole lot.

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Mango

I was a veg. for 6 years but I blew it off and started eating meat again. I now grow my own chicken, duck, turkey, ginea fowl, cow & pig. They all live good (but short) lives. I know what went into them so I know I am eating a good healthy animal that is not pumped full of steroids, antibiotics and other chemicals/drugs. I also fish in the mountains around my house with the exception of the Columbia River as the fish in it have a higher levels of lead and other toxins than I want to consume.

krwlz

I agree whole heartedly!

Kllr Wolf

I am not a vegeitarian my self, nor ever plan to be, but I do admire the fact you guys can give up meat and are able to stick with it.

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platypus

I'm an Ovo-Lacto-Pesco-Pollo-Osso-Bucco-Bosco-Cuervo-Spaghetti-O omnivarian

Red meat isn't bad for you. Fuzzy, green meat is bad for you!

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rsl12

incidentally, spaghetti Os are vegetarian. I had them myself camping the other day cold...bleh...i really liked them when i was a kid...

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majik_6

Sorry to revive such an old thread, but I recently tried some "fake meats" that I thought I'd share with any felllow vegetarians.

The products are Quorn Roast and Tuno.

The roast is a turkey substitute, and has almost the exact appearance, taste, and mouth feel of turkey! It's incredible.

The Tuno is, as the name suggests, a tuna substitute and makes a good tuna salad. It's in no way a reasonable substitute for a good Yellowfin steak or anything, though!

Just something I thought I'd share.

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glasscutter43

I'm with you.
Potatoes are meat aren't they?

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BuddyHawks

In all seriouness, I just dont like vegetables.
I like potatoes if prepared right and scallped corn thats it.

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iamnormal

So the base of being a vegetarian is feeling guilty.
On what you feel guilty about is the type of vegetarian you are?
If bad things where to come up about farming would the vegetarians starve?
Why is it called vegetarian and not herbivore?

Humans are omnivores.

Lebell

hmmm,

Tofurkey just sounds...wrong.

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Hrothgar

just as bad sounding as turducken i guess. I'm gradually lowering my meat intake and using more soy meat substitutes for the times when my instincts kick in and I crave meat for the beast. I feel bad eating other animals and I've lost weight and feel better so I will hopefuly get to a point when I am 100% animal meat free.

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Lebell

Well, if it would help, millions and millions of animals are killed in the farming process, usually in the form of mice, voles, rabbits, etc. during the harvesting process.

Unfortunately, there is no way around having other animals die in order for us to exist.

But I'm not trying to disuade you.

You need to do what you feel is right.

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Phaenx

I'm all for animal rights, except animals that are assholes. Like cows and chickens. I grew up on a farm of sorts, and I hate those bastards so much.

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druptight

I know lots and lots of vegetarians, and i can totally respect their POV and empathize with them, i simply choose not to follow. The one thing that really does get on my nerves though, is the people who become vegan (and sometimes vegetarian but more often you find this with vegan) simply because it's the hip thing to do. If you ask them, they have no real reason they can claim, not that you need one, but you can just tell with some people that they are simply jumping on the bandwagon. I find this very disturbing, especially with vegan, which can be very harmful to your body if you're not a very careful vegan. Anyways, just thought i'd see if anyone else noticed this happening.

lurkette

I was a vegetarian for 3 years. I started because I just wasn't enjoying meat. I'd look at it and think about what it was, and get really grossed out. So I decided to try going veg for a week, and it stuck for 3 years.

I didn't do it for any animal rights reasons - I grew up on a farm, and food with a face doesn't bother me ethically as much as it bothered me just mentally. Dead muscle. Bleh.

The thing that most made me want to be a vegetarian was 1. how badly most animals are treated before they're killed, and 2. how bad cattle farming especially is for the environment. Factory farming has completely devalued animals and placed financial gain above all concerns for animal or human health or comfort. Pack as many critters as you can into the smallest space possible, then pump them full of antibiotics to keep disease from spreading and chop off their beaks to keep them from pecking each other to death. Nasty. And environmentally, it takes far more land to grow enough corn to feed a cow than it's worth - if you used the same land to grow, say, soy beans, you could feed many more people with the soybeans than with the meat from the cows fed by the same acreage. It's just not an efficient use of resources.

About a year ago, I started craving meat again, and I figured that my personal protest against farming practices and environmental damage wasn't doing much good to change the system, just through one abstention. I decided that it would be at least as effective to just eat the meat and buy from free-range and sustainable farmers whenever possible, and just donate time and money to environmental causes. I still don't eat a lot of meat - maybe 2-3 times/week - but it is nice to have the option.

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moot1337

I can never understand the vegetarians that claim they only eat veggies for a moral/ethical reason. If you just don't like meat, or can't stand knowing the origins of your meat, then that's just fine and I respect and praise your decision. However, this comment stood out to me:

I'm sorry, but the mass production food market we rely on in the US is responsible for the death of *millions* of field animals every year. The only difference between these animals and the ones that we eat is that we actually use the meat from the animals we butcher. The thing is that animals actually do live in those fields that we have to harvest, and the machinery we use to harvest those fields doesn't exactly have animal protection built in. The only way to really make sure that you don't harm another living thing in your daily existance would be to produce everything yourself without the assistance of machinery, and I'm sure that very few people are willing to go that far to save something lower in the food chain. I think that it's time for us to realize what we were made to be, and stop being ashamed for existing as we do. Humans are near the top of the food chain, and as long as you're alive, you will be killing innocent animals. It's a fact of life.

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gremlinx8

I am a vegetarian because I can't deal with the idea of eating a living animal. I go on a major guilt trip and just feel terrible. I guess I just like animals too much and I feel bad if I eat them.

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Lebell

Well, there's you're problem right there!

They have to be dead before you eat them!

Try killing them first and report back to us how the eating goes

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majik_6

I more or less agree with you. I quit eating meat for ethical reasons, back when I was more of the activist type, then I just stuck with it.

There've been some very interesting replies in this thread, and I'm glad to see that almost everyone has given a constructive, honest answer, despite their personal standings on the issue.

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pinklily

I have very little ethical reason for being a vegitarian. The change mostly came with my efforts to eat healthier foods a couple of years ago and lose some weight. I realized that I didn't like the taste or texture of real meat, so the only meat I was eating was very unhealthy, like hot dogs and chicken nuggets. I still eat dairy products and eggs, but I haven't eaten any meat since then. I just can't stomach anything that would actually be healthy to eat.

rsl12

Exactly. Check out this handy moral spectrum. Put a pushpin at the point below which you will not eat:

Fruits that fall to the ground of their own accord

Plants you have to hurt first (Fruits you pick)

Plants you have to kill first

Lower order moving animals (clams, oysters, shrimp)

Food that involves hurting animals (honey, milk, eggs)

Common food animals (pig, cow, deer)

Uncommon food animals (ostrich, buffalo)

Animals you killed with your own hands

Endangered species (whooping crane)

Cute animals (bunny rabbit, cat, dog)

Intelligent animals (dolphin, chimpanzee, koko the signing gorilla)

Humans that wanted to be eaten (that guy in germany)

Humans that you don't care for very much (osama)

Humans that you like (grandma)


You will probably note that you fall somewhere in the middle of the spectrum somewhere, like most people. If you actually think about it, it's kind of amazing that 80% of the people in the US draw the line somewhere between cows and buffalos. Throughout the world, you will find people all over this spectrum.

My advice to everyone: use your head, think about what you believe in. Don't be a sheep, eating only what convention tells you to eat. If you're morally ok with eating bald eagle, going down to mexico and hunting a few is to me much better than blindly following what the masses are doing, without ever thinking why.

a lot of vegetarians are guilt driven, the same way you would be guilt driven about eating chimpanzee or grandma.

(i'm lacto-ovo, btw)

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rsl12

I should also note that moral issues are secondary to me, compared to environmental issues. But that's another topic.

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yatzr

i'm surprised only one person has mentioned that field animals get killed in the harvesting of vegetarian foods. If you're a vegetarian for ethical reasons, then I think you should be eating your own stuff out of your own garden. Otherwise, you're still killing animals.

http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com.../leastharm.htm

according to this, the foods grown for vegetarian diets actually kill MORE animals than killing animals for food. So unless you've got your own garden (or you don't eat meat for non-ethical reasons), you might as well enjoy some good ole fashioned steak.

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rsl12

um yatzr...some would argue that killing mice is not that big a deal. I would be one of them--unless you're extinguishing a particular species or something, I'm all for killing mice, even for soybean production. Most vegetarians in the US have no qualms about killing mice and cockroaches. If you see some sort of moral ambiguity in that, then I can't help you.

Benjamin Franklin was a vegetarian for a while, until he one day happened upon some fish that smelled pretty good (emphasis added):

" I believe I have omitted mentioning that in my first Voyage from Boston, being becalm'd off Block Island, our People set about catching Cod & hawl'd up a great many. Hitherto I had stuck to my Resolution of not eating animal Food; and on this Occasion, I consider'd with my Master Tryon, the taking every Fish as a kind of unprovoked Murder, since none of them had or ever could do us any Injury that might justify the Slaughter.--All this seem'd very reasonable.--But I had formerly been a great Lover of Fish, & when this came hot out of the Frying Pan, it smelt admirably well. I balanc'd some time between Principle & inclination: till I recollected, that when the Fish were opened, I saw smaller Fish taken out of their Stomachs:--Then, thought I, if you eat one another, I don't see why we mayn't eat you. So I din'd upon Cod very heartily and continu'd to eat with other People, returning only now & then occasionally to a vegetable Diet. So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for every thing one has a mind to do.--"

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rsl12

Yatzr, as a side note: the tibetan buddhist belief is that each life is equally sacred. Therefore, it is better to kill one yak and feed four families than kill hundreds of shrimp for the same purpose. The dalai lama has even gone so far as to condemn the shrimp industry.

Obviously, people take different moral stances on such issues.

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