raveneye

I'm tutoring a 12-year-old in math and science, and was wondering if people here have any insights into the problems that this particular boy might be having. Here's the situation:

--he's very bright and interested, enjoyable to be with. Quirky personality, very independent, likes to tackle a problem himself without much help. Good sense of humor. Could easily get As in his classes.

--is failing all his classes. The main reason is that he simply leaves most of his exams blank. Has been doing this since he transferred to this private middle school this year from a Montessori school. I don't know his history at the Montessori.

--he injures himself. He always has recent cuts and scratches on his face, from scratching himself with his fingernails.

--he seems emotionally unstable. He cries very easily. If his mother says something negative, like "Why don't you even answer questions on your exams, you're going to fail the class if you keep doing that?" He just cries and doesn't answer. If I ask him that question, he just says he doesn't have the time.

--his mother makes me feel very uncomfortable. There is something hard to describe about her that feels wrong. Her face is always expressionless, like a mask. She stares at you too long, has the manner of being rushed all the time, impatient.

--he's on the verge of being expelled. Some people are advising that he should be put in military school.

I feel badly for this kid, because he's a very nice, bright, interested and capable boy. He is not antisocial at all, behaves very well. Like I said, he understands enough of his classes to get As if he just wanted to. I've been with him just for a couple weeks, and he seems to like me a lot and looks forward to meeting with me. We have a good time. I think it's important to keep with me because he needs a mentor.

I realize this isn't much to go on, but if anybody has any suggestions about the best strategy, I'd appreciate any insights. I realize seeing a psychologist is a priority, but that's up to the parents and they currently are not receptive to that idea.

warrrreagl

A psychometrist. The kid needs a psychometrist. It sounds like he's got multiple issues, and a solution for one problem might inflame another one.

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freeload

Some of this can be said about my 6 years old daughter too - bright, but afraid to stand out at school. She also have some emotional struggles dating back to her birth (probably).

I'll present this to my wife this evening to get her opinion. She's studying child psychology at the moment - and tonight three of her fellow students are gathering at our place - they should be able to give me something to pass on.

I'll write some more tonight (like 2100 CET).

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raveneye

Thanks, folks.

Of course there are long term needs for this kid that I can't do much about, but the obvious short term need that I can help with is to get him on track with his classes.

How do I persuade him to actually write down answers on tests? I don't want to be a drill sergeant because it could backfire; I want to be supportive.

I've thought of giving him practice tests and making it a game; being competitive with him myself (who can answer faster, you or me), etc., as well as actually trying to ask probing questions. I'm sure there are strategies others have used; I'm just not that familiar with this kind of problem.

Thanks freeload, I'll be looking forward to hearing your wife's opinion. My wife is also at a loss.

maleficent

Answers given are based on two psych classes in college, years of watching people's behavior, and my own life experiences - it's all worth about 2 cents:

How are his reading and writing skills? I'm guessing here, but does he have any sort of reading disability, like dyslexia, which is pretty common, and often overlooked. He knows the answer if you ask him the question, but if he has to write it down, then the words get all jumbled and makes it a lot harder for the child.

Mom isn't helping him much, and sadly there's not a lot you can do about her, except just be encouraging for him. He's already got one person beating him down emotionally -- I've been in that situation, and speaking for me, tears are the way that I would express anger. Can't yell at mom and tell her to stop it, so that anger will often manifest itself as tears.

The self injury sounds like it's a cry for attention. But I don't know much about that kind of behavior.

I think your best bet with this kid, is doing exactly what you are doing, (which, you deserve a huge pat on the back for) Be supportive, let him trust you, be supportive, let him know you are available to listen if he ever wants to talk, but don't push it, just be an adult in his life that isn't yelling at him, isn't being negative, just accepts him for who he is.`

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Ripsaw

I agree with maleficent. The possibility of a learning disability should be investigated as soon as possible. Self injury can stem from frustration and a buildup of stressors, including not being able to do what his parents ask of him.

This is a good thing you're doing raveneye.

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lurkette

I second warrrreagl's call for some kind of evaluation - honestly, it sounds like the kid might have some kind of clinical disorder of social/emotional development. Given his mother's strange affect, or lack of it, chances are he may have a genetic predisposition to affective disorders, or he may be suffering abnormal development due to abnormal social cueing from his mom. And if he's been in a Montessori setting up till now, they may have either been able to adapt to his behavior, or they may have just missed it and chalked it up to different learning styles. Could be that the challenge of a new setting and new expectations has triggered some kind of deficit that might not have emerged before. It might help to get in touch with one of his former instructors and find out what kind of issues they had or didn't have with him, and what they did that worked for him.

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- Anatole France

ShaniFaye

As usual Mal beat me to it....Dave was that way when he was high school....extremely intelligent but his writing left a lot to be desired (dyslexia) and he just about flunked out (back then people didnt do a whole lot about dyslexics) because he wouldnt do his homework OR tests...his mom says he stayed frustrated and angry anytime anything about "school" was talked about...he was fine any other time.

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dksuddeth

While not being an expert in psychology I would initially say that this kid has a fear of failure. Maybe during his younger years, his mother or father put too much on him and things went badly for him or something to that effect. It's almost as if he feels by knowing he's going to fail, he doesn't dissapoint someone by giving them high expectations.

You say he's bright, hows his homework level? Does he get good marks on his assignments?

Injuring himself is a definite cry for help. I'd say its a way of hiding or deflecting emotional pain from his past, or maybe even his present. Hows his homelife? Wheres the father figure?

Crying at confrontations with his mother on his failings.....yet a bland excuse when you ask it. I'd say he's desperately seeking approval and praise from the mother. He may have never had any but without his prior montessori history, its hard to tell. This may also have something to do with your perceptions of the mother. If her baggage is being taken out on the child then he's getting the double whammy of both his and hers, not fair at all to him. This could explain almost all of his issues.

If you're truly concerned with the childs welfare then maybe you should seriously consider asking the advice of a professional. Start taking detailed notes of your daily activities, conversations, and interaction with him. Present these to the professional you talk to.

__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

Blaspheme

While it's by no means a diagnosis, a number of things you describe fall into the range of Autism Spectrum disorders. Self injury is a classic hallmark of these conditions, as is the emotional instability. His being bright, but unable to function in a standard school classroom would also be consistent with that.

The public school that he goes to should have personell trained to recognize the signs of a potential Autism Spectrum disorder. The problem is, you're not his parent, and unless his parents request and cooperate with an evaluation it's just not going to happen.

No matter what the issue is, you are virtually powerless to help. With parental rights laws being what they are, unless the child is visibly abused no authorities are likely to offer help unless it is requested by the parents.

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Faith: not wanting to know what is true.
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lurkette

This is what I thought at first glance, too...(Asperger's, actually, was what popped into my head) but the fact that he has a sense of humor, and appears to be able to relate socially to raveneye made me think that maybe it's something else. However, it couldn't hurt to have a professional evaluation. I find it hard to believe that he could go undiagnosed this long if it was an autism spectrum disorder, but he could be just borderline enough to get by, and if his mom is similarly affected (which it sounds like she is - the impatience, the lack of affect, the odd staring, etc.) she might not notice that anything is wrong.

Raveneye, does he have any "stereotypies" - repetitive self-soothing behaviors like rocking, bouncing, head shaking, etc.? (Symptoms of ASD)

Can you get him to talk about feelings? If you show him a picture of some kind of emotional tableau (a kid who's dropped his ice cream cone and looks sad, for example), can he tell you what's happened and how the kid feels and why? Can he recognize facial emotional expressions? Inability to do these tasks are symptoms of ASD, and if you can either rule in or out some of the symptoms it might be easier to get a focused evaluation.

Also, to deal with the question about dyslexia, can he write, other than on exams? If you ask him just to write a story or something, can he write it out? Also, can he type? My brother had dyslexia and had HORRIBLE handwriting, and a really hard time writing homework and such, but get him on a computer and for some reason he was fine. Might it be possible to let this kid do exams on the computer instead of writing out by hand?

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raveneye

My lord this is a great forum . . . . . .

At this point I don't know the boy enough to be able to answer these questions, but they're all good and worth looking into.

About the Asperger's, I'd say his mom fits the description more than he does, although he could be a borderline case (I'm familiar with it because a neighbor boy has it seriously and it is obvious). He doesn't have any soothing behaviors that I've noticed. But he does seem uncomfortable most of the time, and you sense immediately that something is off kilter. His reactions are not smooth and not entirely appropriate.

On the eagerness to please, that's definitely true. He needs praise and I'm happy to give it to him.

On the learning disorder, that's worth checking into. Unfortunately he seems to definitely have an aversion to writing things down, so it's difficult to know. I'll ask him to do a math problem, and he will stubbornly try to do it in his head first, no matter how hard it is, and even if he can do I practically have to beg him to write down the answer. Exasperating.

My first thought was that he was in some sort of conflict with his mother, and was deliberately failing to spite her. But it might be deeper than that.

In any case, my concern right now is that he has major final exams in all his classes coming up (the second trimester exams). And what he will probably do is sit there in all his exams, work out the answers in his head, and not write any of them down.

Unless I can do something to take him out of this behavior. Most of his teachers have given up, and say he should be expelled and put in a special school. He does seem to like me, so maybe I can get some positive changes.

I'll be calling his counselor this afternoon, to see what her take is.

Thanks again everybody.

lurkette

I'm really surprised that the teachers have given up - he so obviously has SOME kind of disorder, and (no slam on overworked public school teachers) I wouldn't expect private school teachers to give up so easily and pack him off to a "special school" without at least trying to get a diagnosis so you know what methods work with such kids.

Again, it might be worth talking to his past teachers at the Montessori school to see what his behavior was there and, if he did have these problems, how they dealt with them. If he knows the material and is doing the problems correctly in his head but just won't write them down, I would hate to see him shunted aside just because the school didn't have the time, flexibility, or inclination to figure out how to work with his particular idiosyncracies. To start with, try the computer option - see if you can just get him to type in the answers, or tell them to you so you can write them down. I know that won't work as a long-term solution, but it'll help you see if he's getting the answers right so you can focus your attention on what the real problem is: is it his ability to do the work, or is it his ability to write things down? One you are trained to deal with, the other needs to be treated by someone who knows what the underlying problem is.

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"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France

raveneye

... update, just got off the phone with the counselor, who ironically was just about to call him into her office. She didn't have much to add, other than to say that she is frustrated and still doesn't know what his problem is. She would not answer some of my questions ("by the nature of my position I can't tell you"), and suggested I ask his mom instead.

But the bottom line is that nobody really knows what to do at this point. I do have an opportunity to do something because I see him one-on-one a couple times a week for an hour each time.

At this point any suggestions what I should do for those two hours are appreciated.

pinkie

Two guesses: Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) or Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD)

I'd have to know more about his background. Please do not recommend putting him in a special/military school! That would be the worst idea. He needs long term therapy, his family's support, and love, not punishment.



http://www.focusonyourchild.com/rela.../A0000746.html

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/bpd.cfm

raveneye

Lurkette, maybe "given up" was too strong, but I think it is definitely true that they are not doing all that they could be doing. None of his teachers is trying to accommodate him in any case, even though the ones I've talked to understand that he is far more capable than his performance indicates. His math teacher thinks this is a deliberate battle of wills, so he is not very sympathetic, although he does like the boy.

The counselor does seem sympathetic and trying hard to find out what the problem is, but she does not seem to be exploring alternative ways to evaluate him.

Demeter

How are his handwriting skills? Maybe he has a hard time putting it down on paper. My son has a disability in that department. Its like there's a 'short' in the path from his brain to his hand. He can think of the answer, but its torture to get it down on paper in a legible way. He's had all sorts of help & therapy with this. There's just no improvement in this area.
Has anyone tried positive reinforcement? The best motivator for my son at school is a few minutes playing games on the computer at the end of the day/week if his work gets completed.
The cuts/scratches are probably from anxiety. He knows he's having a hard time & not living up to everyone's expectations. He really should be taken to a doctor to rule out things like diabetes which may affect his behavior & work.
I've been through this with my son. He has ADD.
Simply asking the kid what he thinks is wrong or how he is feeling isn't out of the question. I'm sure he has a good insight to what he's having trouble with. He may even have ideas on how to improve things.
I hope somehow you can get through to this guy. Its a shame when a kid who's obviously bright has so much trouble. It must be very frustrating for you.

Bryndian_Dhai

All of the posts in here have been very amazingly insightful and I commend Raveneye for taking such a compassionate interest in this kid.

That said, I have to say that if the parents are seriously resisting getting their kid help when he so obviously needs it, perhaps child services should be contacted. Parents have a legal responsibility to obtain aid for their children when they need it.... and there is the glaring question about why they would refuse to take him to get help.... Are they hiding something? Are they contributing to his problems?

At the very least, I think contacting child services and telling them what you've told us and asking if there is something they can feasibly do is worth a shot. You can talk to someone anonymously, so you don't have to worry about some overzealous social worker going nuts (yes, there still are a few social workers out there who, in spite of overwhelming case loads, are trying to take on the world).

I'm a former self-injurer, and the product of a home that while not "textbook" abusive should have sent red flags up to the adults in my life.... None of them did anything to help, and I really wish they had.

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~Sinclair Lewis

meembo

This child needs professional help, and he likely needs an intervention that brings help to him, since his parents don't seem to be advocating for him as actively as they should. Any scrutiny a mental health professional could give this boy is better than the future than awaits him without some kind of help -- counseling, medicine, whatever. I worked in an adolescent psychiatric hospital in Minnesota for a few years, and this kid sounds like he is one or two episodes from being in a place like that himself, especially with the self-injury, anti-social behavior, and the weak personality traits. IMO, his behavior at school is a symptom of a much larger and potentionally much more dangerous mental health situation. Very sadly, 12 year olds do hurt themselves seriously, and sometime commit suicide. Do your part to keep this from happening.

Don't be afraid to raise your voice! (I remember the first time I called the police for a domestic violence call at a neighbor's house -- I was very nervous about what would happen next. The couple ended up thanking me for it together, even though he went to jail for it.) Also be aware that there are mandated reporter laws in some states that compel some professionals to relay their concerns to school or legal authorities. I don't know your profession, but please be aware of your own legal liabilities as one who is clearly in the middle of the situation.

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less I say, smarter I am

Rodney

You might want to check out what he learned or didn't learn in Montessori, and how achievement was measured there. Sometimes kids from Montessori and Waldorf schools don't do well when they transition to traditional schools. For one thing, they don't _have_ exams in a lot of these schools. You demonstrate what you know by demonstrating your knowledge in a way that you have a lot of control over, and it's not competitive. He may simply reject the idea of exams. Start talking with him about how things were done in Montessori and try to help him make a connection between how achievement is measured there and how achievement is measured in his new school.

I'm of the opinion that a child psychologist or family therapist should be called, but you asked what you can do, and this is my suggestion.

raveneye

I'll be meeting with him today for an hour. On the menu for today, just off the top of my head:

--a few questions about his Montessori past. I already asked him about his transition, and he said it has been difficult for him. I'll probe a bit more, also find out which Montessori it was and give them a call.

--I'll ask him about how things are going at home. Just in general, see if he volunteers anything.

--I'll ask him about his face, be sympathetic. "Looks like that must have hurt."

--Take it from there, depending on how he answers.

--Talk to his mom in private afterwards. Ask her (1) if he's been evaluated overall (2) if he has any learning disorders (3) what in addition to tutoring she is planning for him (4) what the school has threatened to do, specifically (any ultimatums?).

On the specific writing aversion, here's the idea I had: I'll give him a mock test, and tell him that he and I are going to have a competition to see who can finish it first. He can write with his right hand, and I have to write with my left. Maybe make it interesting with a $5 bill. See if he likes that idea. Or maybe do it in increments, one question at a time.

I talked to some of his teachers yesterday, and it turns out his biology teacher is very sympathetic and already has been lobbying for him. She says he's a wonderful kid, interested and motivated to learn, participates in class discussions and often is the only student that makes the discussion productive. But it's the same story on exams. The last exam she thought that she had finally persuaded him to write, but after class she looked at his test and all he had done was draw an intricate picture of a boat.

She also said some interesting things that he told her: he's afraid of crowds. He often sits in convocations with his head down and his fingers in his ears. He also said "I know I'm weird. Sometimes I'm talking and everything is fine, then I clam up and I just can't say anything anymore."

But the other teachers are unsympathetic, feel he needs to be somewhere else.

I'll let you all know what I come up with today, if you're still interested. Thanks again.

raeanna74

This is one of the first things that came to my mind. A Montessori school is a very non-traditional setting. Trasitioning from a school such at that to a Private school where test results and standards are held very high would be an extreme switch. Was he switched over from one school to the other mid-school year? Why did they switch him? This question might be a real eye-opener.

It does sound like the boy needs a different approach to education than a traditional setting. It sounds like he's got a few learning problems that are holding him back. He may have problems at home and the emotional consequences are bleeding over into his school.

One more thing that came to mind and it may be grasping at threads but I can't ignore it - You never mentioned a father, the schools he's attended are high cost schools, the mother seems intent on forcing him to do well without giving him outside assistence. The mother is "living" through her child. He's her status symbol. That puts a LOT of pressure on a kid. It could account for maybe even half of his problems.

As for the teachers - they're in a private school - there's a lot of pressure on teachers in a private school (I taugh in one) not to let anything slack in class just because one kid is behind. I was foisted with teaching a 13 yr old boy with a 3rd grade reading level in my class of 4th-6th graders. When I took the time to really help him I was unable to do everything that the school (and parents) expected from me in class. This caused a lot of confrontation with other parents. It was a huge temptation to ignore his problems, let him slip by, and only deal with his parents who thought their child was brilliant and was just not working hard enough. When ONE kid slips it's his problem - when the whole class slows down it's the teachers problem - or at least that's the way it goes sometimes. I'm not trying to give those teachers an excuse but I'm telling their side. You may be able to make many of them advocates if they think you're going to try to take the pressure off them and get this kid some outside help. Ask them if they'll support you if you look to another authority to intervene in this situation. Have you spoken to the principal - you wouldn't want to step on any toes but he/she may know of someone outside the school who would best help. Be forewarned - I don't know this school but some private schools are very contrary to getting outside help unless THEY approve of it. A "problem child" Or "bad parents" in their school looks BAD for them. Do what you can but try not to make too many loud waves.

Also on the autism note - I worked with a girl with autism - they can tell when you really do care and will show more affection to you than perhaps normally they would with anyone else. I noticed it when she began to follow me everywhere. Also how does this boy react to physical touch - just to his arm or something. Typically an response from an autistic child is to shy away from it - almost excessively as with fear. If there isn't a touch of autism - this is a response that we were taught can indicate some abuse. Has he outright told you the scratches were from his fingers?? Are they in a position to be created by him? I know I might be stretching but I'm looking for all possibilities. I've seen abused children enough that I'm unable to ignore the possibilities.

Kudo's for caring about this kid. I hope you can help him. If anything I'm sure he can tell you care - you'll never know the effect that alone can have on a child.

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My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

Bryndian_Dhai

Please do. I'm very interested in what happens with this kid. His plight has touched a chord in me that resonates with the timbre of familiarity.

Again, hats off to you for taking the time to go to bat for him.

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~Sinclair Lewis

clavus

I don't mean to sound like a total ass, but maybe a "special" school is the best place for him. While the concern you have for this kid is commendable, y'all act like he's going to be sentenced to a cell in Guantanimo Bay.

Clearly the traditional school isn't working out. Why not put him in an environment where he is more likely to be properly diagnosed and cared for. As it is now, he's in a system where he is failing, and his best hope is a community of concerned armchair child psychologists (no offense to any actual child psychologists in this thread).

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raveneye

Well I had a good session with Daniel today . . . . .

He went for the competition idea perfectly. I said "OK, let's see who gets the answer first. I'll write with my left hand only and you write with your right." He didn't even think twice, went to work writing down the problem and working it out on paper, looking over at me grinning while I pretended to scrawl with my left hand.

So he can write just fine. Very careful, even has good handwriting. He again is a very bright kid, worked out several problems just as fast as I did.

I asked him a few questions too. Me: How do you like it here, are you doing OK? He: Yeah, but I'm getting bad grades. Me: Why? You're a smart kid, you should be getting good grades. He: I'll tell you why [and he starts counting off on his fingers]: One, everybody puts me down. Two, people try to get me to do things I shouldn't do. Three, I'm not in any sports. And four, I don't have any motivation. Me: you have a lot of motivation, you're doing great with me! He: Yeah but I don't want to do the work in my classes. Me: Why not? He: I don't have a good connection between what I'm thinking and what I have to write down. Me: HUH? You can do great, you do better than a lot of students I know. Etc.

He also says he doesn't like to do homework, at the Montessori he came home and could do anything he wanted, whereas now his mom makes him do homework all evening long, and doesn't let him play on his computer or watch TV.

Anyway I didn't get a chance to talk to the mom, she was in a hurry. We gave each other a high five and I told him he did great.

pinkie

There is no such place. The best environment is home, with therapy, and family support. You obviously have no idea what actually happens in schools like those you mention. Many of those "places" are riddled with abuse and even accidental murders! I would never send my child away for someone else to "deal with." What a total cop-out as a parent. There are professionals he can see without being sent away. The fact that people even consider doing that makes me wonder why they ever had children at all. Those “special schools” you speak of have been statistically proven ineffective over and over for 30 + years now. The only reason they stay open or re-open is because that are privately run and operated and there are no governmental regulations for them. They are money pits, torture chambers, and mind rape mills. Do some research…

raveneye

Well here's what seems the likeliest scenario right now. He'll fail his finals, and will be expelled from this school.

That means it's then up to his parents where to send him. His mom mentioned to me that she is considering sending him to "military school" whatever that means. I have no idea.

Like somebody else said, there's really very little I can do besides be supportive and positive for him.

pinkie

Military school will destroy him... You don't help a "child" work through difficult emotional issues and problems by punishing and forcing them into behavioral submission. It just doesn't work that way, and never will.

raeanna74

Could it be that a large part of it is just resentment at having to move from one school to another?? This is one of the drawbacks of Montessori schools - they don't put as much pressure on kids as traditional schools. I hope you can help him adjust and buckle down. I do hope he doesn't have to go to military school. I don't see him doing that well there. Perhaps just a year at a school like that will show him what pressure is like and a traditional school won't seem so bad.

__________________
"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

Bryndian_Dhai

Actually, my best friend's godson was having problems that sound somewhat similar to Daniel's, without the self-harm. Now mind you, my friend would go to the ends of the earth to get her own son the help he needs should he need it, and has really gone to bat for her godson. She convinced his mother to get Stephen professional help, and when that was not productive, she found a very structured, exceptional private boarding school, which she then convinced his mother to send him to. I'm personally believe that simply being away from his mother did that child a world of good. The school not only required study time and expected high performance, they worked individually with each student to teach them how to study in a manner most productive for them. They were encouraged to participate in sports and other extracurricular activities. Stephen went from failing to excelling in a school year.

I'm not saying military school is best for every child, or even for Daniel, but it is not the horrific environment that many people think it is.... it's <i>not</i> "boot camp" by any means. I also know that there are good ones and not so good ones.... Sometimes its the structure and discipline that are what works. I've seen it work.

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~Sinclair Lewis

raveneye

I'm sure some of the problem is the transition from Montessori, but this behavior is extreme, much more than warranted by the requirements of the school, which is not a high pressure place.

It seems like such a small thing to just get him to write his tests, for now, since it's clear he can do it with little trouble. . . . . . yet it's like a brick wall. A cry for attention, defiance, spite, who knows.

I got through to the Montessori school on Friday and the receptionist mirrored my own feelings, saying, "Oh that's awful, and he was such a good student here, a wonderful boy, one of my favorites." Monday I'll have a talk with one of his full time teachers, and see if he has any suggestions.