Key difference between liberals, conservatives – and their children - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

sixate · 05-09-2003, 04:00 PM

LINKY

Quote:

The kicking time bomb

Posted: May 9, 2003
1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com

What were they thinking? Were they thinking at all? Where were the parents? How did we get here? Dateline Chicago, the suburban Glenbrook High School now infamous worldwide for the incident of their senior girls "hazing a group" of junior girls at a powderpuff football game. Dateline New York, an upstate high-school baseball team visiting the big city. One of the parents accompanying the team decides to take 14 of the players to a strip club. Dateline Los Angeles, the kid behind me in the seat in first-class refuses to stop kicking my chair even after I ask his mother to make him stop.

What's the link?

Kids out of control, and parents who are complicit in how and why their kids behave the way they do. I brought this up on my radio show this week, and you should see the hate mail that came pouring in. I had the gall to say something along the lines of, "Kids are out of control, because their liberal parents never told them no!" My phone lines lit up, the e-mail piled up, I think my blog had a server attack – why was this so offensive?

Maybe it was the fact that we had to listen to the droning voice of Robert C. Byrd this week. His opining about why President Bush landing on the carrier U.S.S. Lincoln was shameful was some of the fall-down funniest moments I have seen in the Senate in a long time. In fact, I say give him his own TV show.

Maybe it was the fact that one of the paragons of conservative virtue was embarrassed badly this week, and liberals felt the need to take aim at others besides Mr. Bennett.

Maybe it was the fact that a group of liberals got together in South Carolina last Saturday night and agreed that the two biggest issues facing America were Soviet-style health care and whether or not "gay" South Carolina men should be able to give each other a poke with Mr. Happy and not go to jail for it. (Heck if this was my slate of candidates, I'd be pretty mad too.)

But whatever the cause, liberals didn't like the fact that I blame them for much of our youth's confusion and subsequent atrocious behavior.

As I told the story of my red-eye flight from Los Angeles to Chicago and how I sorely needed the precious hours of sleep on the plane, I was told by callers and e-mailers alike that the reason the boy was kicking my chair – even after I had glared at him, asked his mother and the flight attendant to do something about it – was really all my fault. That I had somehow instigated this little cretin into bugging me.

I really did myself in after that because I said something to the effect, "Well, when a mother simply stares at you as you ask her to control her little Damian of a boy, is it any wonder that when kids are becoming seniors you see them kicking the crud out of their classmates, breaking bones, shattering skulls and causing hearing loss?"

As the callers called they continued to object to my over simplifications and examples of out of control youth. One lady actually asked me an intelligent question: Why? Why did I associate the out-of-control behavior with liberals? It was by far the most intelligent question asked that day. The reason was simple.

Conservatives hold convictions and values. They believe in them. They teach them to their kids. They write books about teaching them to their kids. They get involved in activist activities like holding up signs at an intersection showing the truth of what an abortion does to the unborn baby – and in the process, they get spit upon. Conservative values mean something, and thus why they suffer the maltreatment – because in enduring, they persevere to the greater good. Conservatives do believe not only in good vs. evil and right vs. wrong, but in the varying degrees of each as well.

Liberals don't. Liberals believe in expediency – not process. That's why someone should just be given a check from the government instead of going out and earning their keep. That's why people should be allowed to kill unborn children – because that kid will end up getting in the way of my life. That's why liberals – and apparently in record numbers given the response at last week's presidential debate – believe that you shouldn't make a difference in saying whether or not it's good for a man and woman to be married as opposed to a man and a man. (According to John Edwards, by the way, this is the greatest issue facing America – Frank and Johnny in the bedroom – not terrorism or 9-11 or anything like that.)

"But Kevin ..." I heard them say, "what about all those conservative hypocrites like Newt, and Livingston and now Bennett?"

But here's the difference: When Newt and Livingston cheat on their wives, fellow conservatives don't stand for it – they resign. When liberals get serviced in the Oval Office (by a girl only slightly older than their daughter) while firing missiles at supposed terrorist sites – their favorability ratings go up amongst their core voters.

Adults doing whatever they like in life – and saying "screw you" to the rest of the world – produce children who then ponder the definition of what "is" is.

Adults that teach their children the difference in good vs. evil, and right vs. wrong, generally have kids who make choices that reflect those values as well.

So let Sen. Byrd babble on endlessly about what a shameful spectacle it was for President Bush to land on the carrier and thank the troops for their service. At the end of the day, that proud military knows the difference in the two men – and it is the conservative of the two that they have the respect for.

But then again, because liberals have no absolute value system, they wouldn't know respect if it kicked them in the face (though the kicking part they seem to have down).

So, do you agree or disagree with this?
I agree with every single word that is in this article.

BoCo · 05-09-2003, 04:08 PM

I'll take one super-size order of AGREE and a Diet Coke, please.

rockogre · 05-09-2003, 04:10 PM

Would it be redundant of me to chime in and agree also?

CBL65 · 05-09-2003, 04:15 PM

I agree.

Lebell · 05-09-2003, 04:25 PM

I agree and could add some stories, especially about one little hellion of a child, the daughter of a writer and a minister, both very liberal.

Somenosuke · 05-09-2003, 04:26 PM

....

Disagree.

oane · 05-09-2003, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sixate
LINKY

Conservatives hold convictions and values. They believe in them. They teach them to their kids. They write books about teaching them to their kids. They get involved in activist activities like holding up signs at an intersection showing the truth of what an abortion does to the unborn baby – and in the process, they get spit upon. Conservative values mean something, and thus why they suffer the maltreatment – because in enduring, they persevere to the greater good. Conservatives do believe not only in good vs. evil and right vs. wrong, but in the varying degrees of each as well.

Liberals don't. Liberals believe in expediency – not process. That's why someone should just be given a check from the government instead of going out and earning their keep. That's why people should be allowed to kill unborn children – because that kid will end up getting in the way of my life. That's why liberals – and apparently in record numbers given the response at last week's presidential debate – believe that you shouldn't make a difference in saying whether or not it's good for a man and woman to be married as opposed to a man and a man. (According to John Edwards, by the way, this is the greatest issue facing America – Frank and Johnny in the bedroom – not terrorism or 9-11 or anything like that.)

gov135 · 05-09-2003, 04:28 PM

This might be the wrong board for this, as I think the arguements will be staged along political lines.

Obviously, Sixate, an opinion written by someone from the right. But if you say that kids who act poorly are most likely from liberal lineage...

...what about kids rebeling from their far-right conservative parents?
...what about kids who are raised with hatred for other races or religions raised by far-right wackos?
...what about kids who are not told 'no' by their conservative parents?

I love how these guys spin President Bush seamlessly in and out of arguements that have nothing to do with him. If anything, President Bush is not receiving any award for restraining his kids...

Finally, since the article brings up President Bush on the aircraft carrier parked ten miles out to sea from San Diego, lets remember he spent most of his time during the Vietnam war studiously guarding Iowa as a member of the National Guard.

Liquor Dealer · 05-09-2003, 04:30 PM

Guess that'll make it 6 to 1.

Nice job Six!

ARTelevision · 05-09-2003, 04:31 PM

I don't see it.
I don't think parents have much effect on their kids at all.
I think the media teaches kids how to behave.

05-09-2003, 04:37 PM

Nope, can't say as I do, particular. Sounds like a lot of oversimplified, partisan drum banging.
I have a cousin who is a third generation family farmer, died-in the wool, regular church-goin' conservative type. His boys were little hooligans, appeased rather than disciplined.
My mother is quite liberal, in her way, particularly on social issues, and boy, did we mind.
I've voted a mostly liberal ticket through the years, but my kids will learn to mind, same as I did.

I think the writer is confusing political leanings with basic parental laziness, and a general feeling of "It's all about my rights" that cuts across society as a whole. Everybody is just too damn defensive anymore, whether of themselves, or their children, kinda thing. Sorta like: "Well, okay, my kid is being an ass, but how dare you, a perfect stranger, point that out to me. Are you trying to tell me I'm not a perfect parent? Just for that, I'm gonna let my kid keep being an ass. That'll show you!"

I guess my point, if I have one, is to ask why everything has to boil down to a liberal/conservative issue?

I'll be quiet now.

Liquor Dealer · 05-09-2003, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ARTelevision
I don't see it.
I don't think parents have much effect on their kids at all.
I think the media teaches kids how to behave.

Art I really think you are wrong on this one. People get from their children just about what the expect from their children. So long as one doesn't have unreal expectation the kid will give back just about what the parent wants. I know that from teaching a student whose parents are willing to accept C's makes C's or D's. If the family expects A's they will probably get them if the child is capable. This probably holds true only in families that are "real" families. My son is 33 - he has never done anything in his life that would make me anything other than proud of him - I hope he can say the same about me.

gov135 · 05-09-2003, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Liquor Dealer
Art I really think you are wrong on this one. People get from their children just about what the expect from their children. So long as one doesn't have unreal expectation the kid will give back just about what the parent wants. I know that from teaching a student whose parents are willing to accept C's makes C's or D's. If the family expects A's they will probably get them if the child is capable. This probably holds true only in families that are "real" families. My son is 33 - he has never done anything in his life that would make me anything other than proud of him - I hope he can say the same about me.

Sorry to bug in on the conversation LiquorDealer, but are parents who tend to have liberal ideals incapable of high expectations for their children? They are willing to accept less?

I know you are debating media/parental influence, but nothing you just brought up supports why you answered above that conservative leaning individuals are less likely to raise hooligans. Conservative people love their kids and expect more of them? Come on. I'm sorry, I just don't see any relationship.

Liquor Dealer · 05-09-2003, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gov135
Sorry to bug in on the conversation LiquorDealer, but are parents who tend to have liberal ideals incapable of high expectations for their children? They are willing to accept less?

I know you are debating media/parental influence, but nothing you just brought up supports why you answered above that conservative leaning individuals are less likely to raise hooligans. Conservative people love their kids and expect more of them? Come on. I'm sorry, I just don't see any relationship.

I will open the can of worms - Yes - I do believe that those who are extremely liberal have much lower expectations - for example - those who use drugs usually are not concerned with the example they set for their children. Do conservatives expect more from their kids? I believe they do - simply from the differences in lifestyles. What is acceptable behavior in a liberal household would probably never fly in a conservative home. I don't know if I helped this any or not - just my own personal opinion.

krwlz · 05-09-2003, 05:43 PM

in reply to arts comment about media raising kids....that happens when the parents fail to do their job, and therfore the kids turn to the easiest source of informatiuon about how society works, and therefore they shoudl behave, TV.

my (conservative) parents taught me well, i believe, well, i certinly never beat the snot out of someone for no reason, and i was never a little terror kicking the seats in front of me...

in short I AGREE!!!

gov135 · 05-09-2003, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Liquor Dealer
I will open the can of worms - just my own personal opinion.

Opinion respected.

gibber71 · 05-09-2003, 06:30 PM

The problem is this.You have a whole whack of people who think the world fucking well revolves around themselves and their asshole kid's,and that there are no exceptions. I agree

shalafi · 05-09-2003, 06:35 PM

I have to disagree with you to art. The unfiltered media can definitely have a huge affect on kids but the parents need to control how much of an affect. When i was growing up my parents regulated how much tv i was allowed to watch and what shows i could see. I wasnt allowed to rent movies they didnt think i needed to be seeing (this one always pissed me off when my friends were talking about that great movie they saw). They also kept an eye on what i was reading. Some may call it censorship. My parents called it parenting. Looking at how i turned out vs some of those friends who could do anything they wanted i tend to agree w/ my parents.

oh ya in case yall didnt guess.......agree

ARTelevision · 05-09-2003, 07:05 PM

it's ok.
think of me as a futurist.
the way I see it is:
every day that passes -
the role of parenting decreases in direct proportion to the increasing influence of the media.

as you know, this is a global conception of mine.

I'm content to be a voice in the wilderness

the media is taking our minds away day by day

it is taking your children away as well

if I can have some influence in having you take another look at this issue, I'm satisfied with that.

thanks.

Somenosuke · 05-09-2003, 07:29 PM

I personally think this guy doesn't understand the difference between liberalism and laziness/bad judgement. I know it may pain people to think about it, but there IS a difference. My parents are liberal folk, raised us "liberally" but still taught us right from wrong.

Liberal is not synonymous with "Doesn't know the difference between right and wrong." This is my view, and nothing will ever change that. I wonder if the person who wrote this article has his own children. Either way, he doesn't have all the answers. There are people out there who try to teach their kids to live right regardless of what their political stances are. Politics and child-rearing are two different things, by the way.

This quote...

"But then again, because liberals have no absolute value system, they wouldn't know respect if it kicked them in the face (though the kicking part they seem to have down)."

is what I call absolutely ridiculous. The fact that this man has to resort to silly insults of people who think differently from him makes me think poorly of him. Saying that all kids who show their asses and act stupid because their parents are SO obviously and undeniably liberal is like saying that all kids who don't act like idiots and do stupid things were raised by conservative people with "values." There's no hardcore proof. If there is, I want to see it.

You know, maybe, just maybe there are some kids in this world that choose to act like they were raised by brainless organisms no matter how they were raised. This guy must believe that can't happen.

I understand that there are people in this world who could brush up on their parenting skills. I don't deny that. But to write an article saying that every bad kid in the world simply must have a liberal parent is absolutely ridiculous.

This guy doesn't know how the parents of those girls who took part in that hazing raised them. They all might have been raised differently, but regardless of how they were raised, they still decided it would be cool to terrorize those other girls. Unless he knows -exactly- how each and every girl who took part in the violence that day was raised, as well as every other bad seed you year about in the media, I think he needs a tall cold glass of shut-the-fuck-up.

scapegoat · 05-09-2003, 07:44 PM

Quote:

But then again, because liberals have no absolute value system, they wouldn't know respect if it kicked them in the face (though the kicking part they seem to have down).

I disagree wholehartedly , and think this columnist is full of shit.

Does he know the backgrounds of these girls? For all we know they could have come from conservitive church going , bible thumping familys.

Saying that just because of your political views or your religious beliefs that you have no value system and cannont raise your kids to be decent human beings, is just about as biggoted of a statment as ive heard in a while.

Contami22 · 05-09-2003, 07:54 PM

I love the fact that somebody had the balls and the time to type that up. I woudl love to say that in more ways than one but the abortion thing kinda made me mad. What is so non conservative or so liberal about abortion is a persons choice and no man should decide what a woman who has to pass a watermelon through a whole that has trouble passing a lemon can do with that watermelon. Because thats what it is until it is in fact born. Not a living organism. I dont lose sleep over a tiny non thinking fetus dying. You eat meat dont you? Same thing only fetus's dont even think at much. Oh well other than the abortion thing i totally agree.

redravin40 · 05-09-2003, 08:54 PM

My mother was a classic liberal but I was raised knowing how to take care of farm animals, wash my own clothes, keep myself entertained without damaging anybody else, respect my elders, shoot a rifle, dance a jig, write a story and a whole lot of other things that seem to be classified as conservative values by this writer.
Druggies, self centered obnoxious, and just plain stupid people are not liberals. They are bad parents.

degrawj · 05-09-2003, 11:41 PM

i completely disagree. conservative parents put out just as many, if not more, messed up children as liberal parents do. unfortunately, conservatives tend to have more children, you do the math...

guthmund · 05-10-2003, 12:04 AM

I don't think it's just a simple liberal/conservative problem; I think it's an 'extremist' problem. It would be more fair to say, in my opinion, that kids from extremist left/right households are more inclined to bad behavior.

My mother was a liberal when I was growing up and I still know right from wrong and fit into society quite well. My values are just as important and morally sound as my conservative friends. They are no less and I am just as strong in my convictions.

I think that stupid/reckless/troublemaking/ignorant kids come from stupid/reckless/troublemaking/ignorant parents, and they fall on a wide range over the liberal/conservative chart.

thomerishus · 05-10-2003, 12:36 AM

coming from my own place......liberals teach you to think and to analyzeand be human among a crowd of humans....while cons teach you to follow and find your own place in a group. wrong? sure maybe but for now...truth

Macheath · 05-10-2003, 01:30 AM

I agree with Somenosuke. I know liberalism and it's not synomymous with laziness.

As for an example raised in this article, what in the hell kind of child is a ultra militant pro-lifer going to raise? About the same kind of kid an militant Islamist or Communist is going to raise.

"Son - all I want is for you to be the best gosh darn abortion clinic bomber you can be. Now let me help you load that fertilizer in the truck."

This shit is not about liberals versus conservatives. It's about extremists and morons versus civilized people.

The_Dude · 05-10-2003, 04:49 AM

what the HECK?? are you blaming bad parenting on liberals?

i bet half of these parents dont even know wtf liberal means.

liberals dont brain wash their kids w/ ideas that they have. they let the kids make up their own view-points, independantly. like on religion for example, a liberal parent wouldnt take his/her son/daughter to church every sunday and brainwash them beyond hope.

i know many conservative kids and they spend half their time in church.

this article just cracks me up, because a kid doesnt want to listen to their parents, it's cuz parents are liberal?

and most of the girls raised conservatively (i do live in the bible belt) are taught to be submissive to men.

my teacher asked this girl in class about where she is going to college, and she responded "it doesnt really matter, since i'm going to be a housewife" - i can tell you that no girl child raised by a liberal parent would say this.

and a majority of girls in my town would say that men are superior to women just cuz they're men - absolute bull shit.

Spanky Johnson · 05-10-2003, 05:03 AM

I saw no information about whether the parents of the kids in question were liberal or conservative. The author seemed to draw the conclusion that because the kids behaved badly, they must have liberal parents, and that well-behaved kids are that way because they have conservative parents. Bad parents come in all political stripes. The author of the article co-opted the issue at the football game to support the political point he wanted to make.

Cynthetiq · 05-10-2003, 06:21 AM

liberal/conservative... just words.

truly it is more based in ACTIONS of the parents rather than the words. Generalizing the actions into liberal and conservative is absurd, but alas its just an oversimplification

Liquor Dealer · 05-10-2003, 06:37 AM

Dude - you are talking about your home town in India! Right? If this drivel is supposed to reprsent Texas you must have found a time lapse to move into!

Quote:

The Dude said:
"my teacher asked this girl in class about where she is going to college, and she responded "it doesnt really matter, since i'm going to be a housewife" - i can tell you that no girl child raised by a liberal parent would say this.

and a majority of girls in my town would say that men are superior to women just cuz they're men - absolute bull shit"

The fact that this stupid female realizes that she is stupid and was placed on earth to be nothing but a brood cow speaks for itself - liberal/conservative, religious/non-religious, or any other comparison you might choose to make would not alter that decision. As far as Texas women saying you're superior to them cause you've got a dick! Some Texas woman is probably gonna' bitch slap your 'superior' ass into the dirt.

The_Dude · 05-10-2003, 08:25 AM

well, come down here and texas, and you'll see that a majority of teenage girls share the same view points about their status.

Charlatan · 05-10-2003, 10:34 AM

I don't disagree that there are kids that are out of control BUT I do take issue with making it a Liberal vs. Conservative thing...

Being conservative doesn't give you a monopoly on being a bad parent.

Someone above touched on the issue... Many parents are too self centred. They don't understand that when you have kids it isn't all about you anymore. You need to spend time with your kids.

It is this lack of attention that leads to childeren being plunked down in front of the TV/Video Game/Internet with no supervision.

Add to this the fact that way too many parents have no idea how to disipline their kids (and I don't mean hitting them by that). I mean instilling in your kid a sense of responsibility (for their actions, themselves, etc) and consequences (if you don't live up to your responsibilities there will be a negative consequence).

This can only be accomplished by spending time and paying attention to your kids.

Liquor Dealer · 05-10-2003, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Dude
well, come down here and texas, and you'll see that a majority of teenage girls share the same view points about their status.

Dude! I was born a Texan in 1938. Texas girls didn't have that attitude when I was your age - much less now! And I realize Texas doesn't deserve a lot of respect but it does start with a "T"!

Peetster · 05-10-2003, 11:29 AM

One more in the AGREE side. Clearly there are examples of conservative parents raising up children that become very rebellious. Look at Jim Morrison; his dad was a very conservative Navy Admiral. But I believe that to be the exception to this rule.

The_Dude · 05-10-2003, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Liquor Dealer
Dude! I was born a Texan in 1938. Texas girls didn't have that attitude when I was your age - much less now! And I realize Texas doesn't deserve a lot of respect but it does start with a "T"!

well, i'm going to a texas high school now and trust me, 75% of the chicks have this attitude

james t kirk · 05-11-2003, 08:12 AM

That article belongs in the outhouse frankly.

Case in point......

George W. Bush.

Fater was Georger Herbert Walker Bush. Mother was Barbara Bush. A fine upstanding tory family.

Seems to me in his younger years, W was a bit irresponsible. Heck, he didn't even work till he was 40. And even then, he didn't really work as most of us know it.

Didn't do too well at school. Had a wee bit of a cocaine problem. Oh, and there were those three arrests, including DUI I believe.

But he did come from a fine upstanding conservative family.

Me on the other hand, my dad worked in a factory, my mother taught grade 3. I worked part time when i was in highschool from the age of 15 onwards (evenings and weekends, my first job being stripping paint for $2.15 an hour), still managed to pull off the marks to get into university. During the summers in university, i worked 12 hours a day from sun up till sun down in a steel fabrication shop and out on site hanging steel from the sky. I got my degree, hell, i even am enrolled in a masters programme part time. I speak 2 languages, I pay my taxes, I work full time, and do weekend side projects as well for 2 other jobs. Never collected a dime of assistance from anyone, knock on wood, never been on unemployment. I pay my own way. Never been arrested to the best of my knowledge either.

And my parents were both liberals.

So kiss my ass kid.

redravin40 · 05-11-2003, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by james t kirk
So kiss my ass kid.

Could you make it clear which kid you're talking about here James.
I doubt that you are flaming anyone but wouldn't want there to be any misunderstandings.

Thanks.

james t kirk · 05-11-2003, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by redravin40
Could you make it clear which kid you're talking about here James.
I doubt that you are flaming anyone but wouldn't want there to be any misunderstandings.

Thanks.

Whoever wrote that article...

Loki · 05-11-2003, 03:17 PM

ummmm... the author of that story forgets one critical thing with respect to the hazing ritual. He implies that its a result of the liberal parents, but really, all it takes is for one rotten egg to be considered "cool" for something like this to happen. Its a common problem - sometimes referred to as "Group Think" and other times referred to as peer pressure.

Anyway, i'd have to side with art here, the media controls the upbringing of children much more than parents do, so i guess id disagree.

05-09-2003, 04:08 PM	#2 (permalink)
BoCo Fear the bunny Location: Hanging off the tip of the Right Wing	I'll take one super-size order of AGREE and a Diet Coke, please. __________________ Activism is a way for useless people to feel important.

05-09-2003, 04:10 PM	#3 (permalink)
rockogre I aim to misbehave! Location: SW Oklahoma	Would it be redundant of me to chime in and agree also? __________________ Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American G. I. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom

05-09-2003, 04:25 PM	#5 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	I agree and could add some stories, especially about one little hellion of a child, the daughter of a writer and a minister, both very liberal. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

05-09-2003, 04:26 PM	#6 (permalink)
Somenosuke Insane Location: The 7th Level..	.... Disagree. __________________ Sex is not the answer. Sex is the question. Yes is the answer.

05-09-2003, 04:28 PM	#8 (permalink)
gov135 Junkie Location: Midwest	Re: Key difference between liberals, conservatives – and their children This might be the wrong board for this, as I think the arguements will be staged along political lines. Obviously, Sixate, an opinion written by someone from the right. But if you say that kids who act poorly are most likely from liberal lineage... ...what about kids rebeling from their far-right conservative parents? ...what about kids who are raised with hatred for other races or religions raised by far-right wackos? ...what about kids who are not told 'no' by their conservative parents? I love how these guys spin President Bush seamlessly in and out of arguements that have nothing to do with him. If anything, President Bush is not receiving any award for restraining his kids... Finally, since the article brings up President Bush on the aircraft carrier parked ten miles out to sea from San Diego, lets remember he spent most of his time during the Vietnam war studiously guarding Iowa as a member of the National Guard.

05-09-2003, 04:30 PM	#9 (permalink)
Liquor Dealer Super Agitator Location: Just SW of Nowhere!!! In the good old US of A	Guess that'll make it 6 to 1. Nice job Six! __________________ Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

05-09-2003, 04:31 PM	#10 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	I don't see it. I don't think parents have much effect on their kids at all. I think the media teaches kids how to behave. __________________ create evolution

05-09-2003, 04:37 PM	#11 (permalink)
Big Julie Guest	Nope, can't say as I do, particular. Sounds like a lot of oversimplified, partisan drum banging. I have a cousin who is a third generation family farmer, died-in the wool, regular church-goin' conservative type. His boys were little hooligans, appeased rather than disciplined. My mother is quite liberal, in her way, particularly on social issues, and boy, did we mind. I've voted a mostly liberal ticket through the years, but my kids will learn to mind, same as I did. I think the writer is confusing political leanings with basic parental laziness, and a general feeling of "It's all about my rights" that cuts across society as a whole. Everybody is just too damn defensive anymore, whether of themselves, or their children, kinda thing. Sorta like: "Well, okay, my kid is being an ass, but how dare you, a perfect stranger, point that out to me. Are you trying to tell me I'm not a perfect parent? Just for that, I'm gonna let my kid keep being an ass. That'll show you!" I guess my point, if I have one, is to ask why everything has to boil down to a liberal/conservative issue? I'll be quiet now.

05-09-2003, 05:43 PM	#15 (permalink)
krwlz Fledgling Dead Head Location: Clarkson U.	in reply to arts comment about media raising kids....that happens when the parents fail to do their job, and therfore the kids turn to the easiest source of informatiuon about how society works, and therefore they shoudl behave, TV. my (conservative) parents taught me well, i believe, well, i certinly never beat the snot out of someone for no reason, and i was never a little terror kicking the seats in front of me... in short I AGREE!!!

05-09-2003, 06:30 PM	#17 (permalink)
gibber71 Loser	The problem is this.You have a whole whack of people who think the world fucking well revolves around themselves and their asshole kid's,and that there are no exceptions. I agree

05-09-2003, 06:35 PM	#18 (permalink)
shalafi ARRRRRRRRRR Location: Stuart, Florida	I have to disagree with you to art. The unfiltered media can definitely have a huge affect on kids but the parents need to control how much of an affect. When i was growing up my parents regulated how much tv i was allowed to watch and what shows i could see. I wasnt allowed to rent movies they didnt think i needed to be seeing (this one always pissed me off when my friends were talking about that great movie they saw). They also kept an eye on what i was reading. Some may call it censorship. My parents called it parenting. Looking at how i turned out vs some of those friends who could do anything they wanted i tend to agree w/ my parents. oh ya in case yall didnt guess.......agree

05-09-2003, 07:05 PM	#19 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	it's ok. think of me as a futurist. the way I see it is: every day that passes - the role of parenting decreases in direct proportion to the increasing influence of the media. as you know, this is a global conception of mine. I'm content to be a voice in the wilderness the media is taking our minds away day by day it is taking your children away as well if I can have some influence in having you take another look at this issue, I'm satisfied with that. thanks. __________________ create evolution

05-09-2003, 07:29 PM	#20 (permalink)
Somenosuke Insane Location: The 7th Level..	I personally think this guy doesn't understand the difference between liberalism and laziness/bad judgement. I know it may pain people to think about it, but there IS a difference. My parents are liberal folk, raised us "liberally" but still taught us right from wrong. Liberal is not synonymous with "Doesn't know the difference between right and wrong." This is my view, and nothing will ever change that. I wonder if the person who wrote this article has his own children. Either way, he doesn't have all the answers. There are people out there who try to teach their kids to live right regardless of what their political stances are. Politics and child-rearing are two different things, by the way. This quote... "But then again, because liberals have no absolute value system, they wouldn't know respect if it kicked them in the face (though the kicking part they seem to have down)." is what I call absolutely ridiculous. The fact that this man has to resort to silly insults of people who think differently from him makes me think poorly of him. Saying that all kids who show their asses and act stupid because their parents are SO obviously and undeniably liberal is like saying that all kids who don't act like idiots and do stupid things were raised by conservative people with "values." There's no hardcore proof. If there is, I want to see it. You know, maybe, just maybe there are some kids in this world that choose to act like they were raised by brainless organisms no matter how they were raised. This guy must believe that can't happen. I understand that there are people in this world who could brush up on their parenting skills. I don't deny that. But to write an article saying that every bad kid in the world simply must have a liberal parent is absolutely ridiculous. This guy doesn't know how the parents of those girls who took part in that hazing raised them. They all might have been raised differently, but regardless of how they were raised, they still decided it would be cool to terrorize those other girls. Unless he knows -exactly- how each and every girl who took part in the violence that day was raised, as well as every other bad seed you year about in the media, I think he needs a tall cold glass of shut-the-fuck-up. __________________ Sex is not the answer. Sex is the question. Yes is the answer.

05-09-2003, 07:54 PM	#22 (permalink)
Contami22 Banned	Agree in more ways than i disagree I love the fact that somebody had the balls and the time to type that up. I woudl love to say that in more ways than one but the abortion thing kinda made me mad. What is so non conservative or so liberal about abortion is a persons choice and no man should decide what a woman who has to pass a watermelon through a whole that has trouble passing a lemon can do with that watermelon. Because thats what it is until it is in fact born. Not a living organism. I dont lose sleep over a tiny non thinking fetus dying. You eat meat dont you? Same thing only fetus's dont even think at much. Oh well other than the abortion thing i totally agree.

05-09-2003, 08:54 PM	#23 (permalink)
redravin40 Loser Location: With Jadzia	My mother was a classic liberal but I was raised knowing how to take care of farm animals, wash my own clothes, keep myself entertained without damaging anybody else, respect my elders, shoot a rifle, dance a jig, write a story and a whole lot of other things that seem to be classified as conservative values by this writer. Druggies, self centered obnoxious, and just plain stupid people are not liberals. They are bad parents.

05-09-2003, 11:41 PM	#24 (permalink)
degrawj I'm still waiting... Location: West Linn, OR	i completely disagree. conservative parents put out just as many, if not more, messed up children as liberal parents do. unfortunately, conservatives tend to have more children, you do the math...

05-10-2003, 12:04 AM	#25 (permalink)
guthmund big damn hero	I don't think it's just a simple liberal/conservative problem; I think it's an 'extremist' problem. It would be more fair to say, in my opinion, that kids from extremist left/right households are more inclined to bad behavior. My mother was a liberal when I was growing up and I still know right from wrong and fit into society quite well. My values are just as important and morally sound as my conservative friends. They are no less and I am just as strong in my convictions. I think that stupid/reckless/troublemaking/ignorant kids come from stupid/reckless/troublemaking/ignorant parents, and they fall on a wide range over the liberal/conservative chart. __________________ No signature. None. Seriously.

05-10-2003, 12:36 AM	#26 (permalink)
thomerishus Crazy	coming from my own place......liberals teach you to think and to analyzeand be human among a crowd of humans....while cons teach you to follow and find your own place in a group. wrong? sure maybe but for now...truth

05-10-2003, 01:30 AM	#27 (permalink)
Macheath Junkie Location: Sydney, Australia	I agree with Somenosuke. I know liberalism and it's not synomymous with laziness. As for an example raised in this article, what in the hell kind of child is a ultra militant pro-lifer going to raise? About the same kind of kid an militant Islamist or Communist is going to raise. "Son - all I want is for you to be the best gosh darn abortion clinic bomber you can be. Now let me help you load that fertilizer in the truck." This shit is not about liberals versus conservatives. It's about extremists and morons versus civilized people.

05-10-2003, 04:49 AM	#28 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	what the HECK?? are you blaming bad parenting on liberals? i bet half of these parents dont even know wtf liberal means. liberals dont brain wash their kids w/ ideas that they have. they let the kids make up their own view-points, independantly. like on religion for example, a liberal parent wouldnt take his/her son/daughter to church every sunday and brainwash them beyond hope. i know many conservative kids and they spend half their time in church. this article just cracks me up, because a kid doesnt want to listen to their parents, it's cuz parents are liberal? and most of the girls raised conservatively (i do live in the bible belt) are taught to be submissive to men. my teacher asked this girl in class about where she is going to college, and she responded "it doesnt really matter, since i'm going to be a housewife" - i can tell you that no girl child raised by a liberal parent would say this. and a majority of girls in my town would say that men are superior to women just cuz they're men - absolute bull shit. __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

05-10-2003, 05:03 AM	#29 (permalink)
Spanky Johnson Insane	I saw no information about whether the parents of the kids in question were liberal or conservative. The author seemed to draw the conclusion that because the kids behaved badly, they must have liberal parents, and that well-behaved kids are that way because they have conservative parents. Bad parents come in all political stripes. The author of the article co-opted the issue at the football game to support the political point he wanted to make.

05-10-2003, 06:21 AM	#30 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	liberal/conservative... just words. truly it is more based in ACTIONS of the parents rather than the words. Generalizing the actions into liberal and conservative is absurd, but alas its just an oversimplification __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

05-10-2003, 08:25 AM	#32 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	well, come down here and texas, and you'll see that a majority of teenage girls share the same view points about their status. __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

05-10-2003, 10:34 AM	#33 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	I don't disagree that there are kids that are out of control BUT I do take issue with making it a Liberal vs. Conservative thing... Being conservative doesn't give you a monopoly on being a bad parent. Someone above touched on the issue... Many parents are too self centred. They don't understand that when you have kids it isn't all about you anymore. You need to spend time with your kids. It is this lack of attention that leads to childeren being plunked down in front of the TV/Video Game/Internet with no supervision. Add to this the fact that way too many parents have no idea how to disipline their kids (and I don't mean hitting them by that). I mean instilling in your kid a sense of responsibility (for their actions, themselves, etc) and consequences (if you don't live up to your responsibilities there will be a negative consequence). This can only be accomplished by spending time and paying attention to your kids. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

05-10-2003, 11:29 AM	#35 (permalink)
Peetster Right Now Location: Home	One more in the AGREE side. Clearly there are examples of conservative parents raising up children that become very rebellious. Look at Jim Morrison; his dad was a very conservative Navy Admiral. But I believe that to be the exception to this rule.

05-11-2003, 08:12 AM	#37 (permalink)
james t kirk Junkie Location: Toronto	That article belongs in the outhouse frankly. Case in point...... George W. Bush. Fater was Georger Herbert Walker Bush. Mother was Barbara Bush. A fine upstanding tory family. Seems to me in his younger years, W was a bit irresponsible. Heck, he didn't even work till he was 40. And even then, he didn't really work as most of us know it. Didn't do too well at school. Had a wee bit of a cocaine problem. Oh, and there were those three arrests, including DUI I believe. But he did come from a fine upstanding conservative family. Me on the other hand, my dad worked in a factory, my mother taught grade 3. I worked part time when i was in highschool from the age of 15 onwards (evenings and weekends, my first job being stripping paint for $2.15 an hour), still managed to pull off the marks to get into university. During the summers in university, i worked 12 hours a day from sun up till sun down in a steel fabrication shop and out on site hanging steel from the sky. I got my degree, hell, i even am enrolled in a masters programme part time. I speak 2 languages, I pay my taxes, I work full time, and do weekend side projects as well for 2 other jobs. Never collected a dime of assistance from anyone, knock on wood, never been on unemployment. I pay my own way. Never been arrested to the best of my knowledge either. And my parents were both liberals. So kiss my ass kid.

05-11-2003, 03:17 PM	#40 (permalink)
Loki Psycho Location: Drifting.	ummmm... the author of that story forgets one critical thing with respect to the hazing ritual. He implies that its a result of the liberal parents, but really, all it takes is for one rotten egg to be considered "cool" for something like this to happen. Its a common problem - sometimes referred to as "Group Think" and other times referred to as peer pressure. Anyway, i'd have to side with art here, the media controls the upbringing of children much more than parents do, so i guess id disagree.