The Conversationalist - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Halx · 08-31-2003, 03:25 PM

... I am not.

(abstract post, feel free to add your comments, suggestions and tips)

Some people are naturals, some are not. I can talk, I can preach, I can explain, I can promote. I cannot converse.

Eye contact? No problem.
Ask questions? I can do that, but I'm not always interested.
Acknowledge? Uh huh. Yeah. Uh huh. Right. Yeah.

Conversation as a science, I am pretty good at.
Conversation as an art, I am dreadfully horrible.
It seems some people can make a conversation out of nothing. They just strike it up and suddenly you're interested in talking to them. Charisma... how does one get along without it?

So, you're sitting across the table from your date. (S)he's not exactly your intellectual equal, but you gotta talk about SOMETHING, right? What do you say? What do you ask? "I like your hair"? Ok now what? "So, how about them Yankees?" Nobody talks about sports, computers or school on dates.. do they?

I've been struggling with conversation forever. Sometimes just DOING something is a great substitute for conversation, but you know if you want to get anywhere special with a special person, you're gonna have to open your mouth.

Conversation, it's what's for dinner.

mtsgsd · 08-31-2003, 03:35 PM

I can relate! My wife is the type who instantly makes friends with anyone, and can talk easily. I on the other hand, have never understood "small talk". If I don't have something to say, I won't, and I expect others to do so too.

Ironicly, she has told me that she has been impressed with how I've held my own at get togethers with the inlaws (immediate family of 32 people!). Meanwhile I feel like a square peg being forced thru a round hole! LOL

jfranco13 · 08-31-2003, 03:37 PM

Find something you have in common. Failing that, you could always just let your date ramble on about something THEY know. Preferably if it's something you're interested in. Or something that one of you are passionate about (without getting into taboo subjects like religion/politics).

Failing that, you can usually get interesting conversations about people's taste in movies or music. It's lame at first to ask someone their favorite album, but you might find something about their personality when you do. That can be tricky and it's not for everyone, but sometimes if you're stuck anyway, take a shot. Ask them what they did last weekend, gives you an idea of their hobbies/interests. Another tricky one to introduce but one that could bear fruit.

It's hard to explain. There's just SOMETHING. Even if you suck at it, there is probably someone out there that you would feel comfortable talking to and with whom your conversations would flow freely.

homerhop · 08-31-2003, 03:48 PM

I dont talk much, even with my friends I would much prefer to sit and listen than talk.
My gf tells me that I am a man of few words.

Quietus · 08-31-2003, 04:07 PM

I have exactly the same problem! I find that I typically would rather listen to someone else then talk myself. I guess it's mainly because I don't like to talk unless I feel like I have something meaningful to contribute to the conversation. I have the same problem with in-class discussions, etc... I'll get talkative sometimes when I'm really tired and feel kind of weird, but that's more babbling than meaningful conversation. I absolutely hate it when I'm expected to make small talk with someone, I never have any idea what to say.

JcL · 08-31-2003, 04:08 PM

I have a hypothetical situation of sorts... Humor me..

Say the topic of family is brought up for whatever reason. The advice of staying away from taboo topics (religion/politics) was given. Yet there are other more universal topics such as family that can turn out negative. It turns out your date has an alcholic father. She/he opens up to you about this, and continues to talk about whatever problems she had.

I have two schools of thought about this, each with some psychology under it, but I don't know if theres truth to one or either.

1) while your date may not visibly seem distressed, and may even make light of the situation, the topic surely is still a downer - even if just on some subconscious level. Would it be best to change the subject to something the other person is happy about, ie doing well in school etc. You wouldn't want your date to associate the feelings brought up by a depressing discussion with the date itself. And it might not even be a conscious type of association.

2) At the same time, if your date is opening up to you for whatever reason, there must be some relief to get things off their chest, and a stronger connection could be made beyond the dreaded 'small talk.' Should you continue to listen and try to simply be understanding and give your date a chance to vent?

What would the pro-conversationalist do? Keep the discussion positive by changing topics or allowing the conversation to take its natural course?

cchris · 08-31-2003, 04:10 PM

I'm far from a natural so I tend to make light of most situations if starting a conversation with someone that I have just met.
It also helps me if the surroundings are familiar as well.
I pick out something quirky around us and start from there.
But if the subject matter,well,if it is of high interest to me then I can waffle on for ages and be a bore.

Halx · 08-31-2003, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JcL

What would the pro-conversationalist do? Keep the discussion positive by changing topics or allowing the conversation to take its natural course?

It's just my guess that it's best to let the person get it off her chest, but that may be my problem. I'm a good listener, so I've accidently ventured into the dreaded "good friends" category for many girls and they never wanna bring it further than that.

jfranco13 · 08-31-2003, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JcL
What would the pro-conversationalist do? Keep the discussion positive by changing topics or allowing the conversation to take its natural course?

I think HalX is right - if you let them keep going, you risk going down the "friend" road. But the 1/1000 chance of getting a best friend who is also a perfect romantic match is still there, and you probably don't want to ignore it. When I find myself in this situation, I always let the person talk, but I wonder if that's the best thing to do. Maybe tactfullly changing the subject would be better? Is that even possible? You don't want to seem unsympathetic.

vermin · 08-31-2003, 04:31 PM

I can identify with some of the previous posters statements about economy of words. I have been told that the best way to appear to be a good conversationalist is to ask the kind of questions that get the other person to do most of the talking. Most of the time this results in having to listen to a lot of Other People's Bullshit that I couldn't care less about. But it usually beats the alternative of opening up and boring the piss out of someone who doesn't care about my bullshit.
Then again you could just go through Tilted Humor and memorize all the jokes and just keep on and on telling jokes until people run screaming from the room. As you can see, I'm as clueless as anyone about this stuff, but you can always try new ideas and marvel at the ensuing social atrocity.

Edit to answer the un-asked question: Yes, I'm just as bad at conversation as I am at writing.

Tickford · 08-31-2003, 04:45 PM

Halx, I so hear what you are saying. I think that I suffer from the same problem as you. I cant just strike up a chat with anyone. I hate it cause I struggle to just start talking to people. Once I get going Im not too bad. But its just the starting that I really suck at. Maybe this is why in single? I hate going to parties that I dont really know anyone and try to avoid them at all cost. I would rather sit at home by myself that go party packed with people I dont really know and stand there with no-one to talk to. And I have lots of "good friends" too. Which I really hate. So I guess I know what you are feeling?

ratbastid · 08-31-2003, 05:05 PM

I run hot and cold about this. Sometimes I'll be sitting with a group of friends and realize I haven't said a word in ten minutes, and other times I'm the life of the party--leading the conversation, making jokes and connections with prior topics, that sort of thing.

I think the main difference is, when I'm keeping to myself, I'm spending mental energy keeping up with the conversation and trying to figure out what to say, and when I'm dancing right along in the conversation, I'm not thinking about any of that, I'm just... dancing.

WhoaitsZ · 08-31-2003, 06:38 PM

i'm basically the opposite.

i am always thinking and so i always say -something-. i can easily hold a conversation on anything i know about. if i don't i can sit and listen, but if yer boring then forget it.

my life is so much faster than others.. i feel rushed.. i feel like i got to say what i have to say and say it NOW.

however, when i'm quiet i get pissed if people bug me to talk.

spectre · 08-31-2003, 06:42 PM

For the most part, I'm a listener. I can make it very easy for people to just talk to me. I find that the best way to learn about anything is to just shut up and listen. Paying attention to detail is important too. Remembering little details about what others have said make conversation easier later. After I'm comfortable talking with a person, and know enough about them, it's very easy for me to hold a coversation with them.

But, for the most part, I'm a very quiet person. It's usually very difficult for me to start a conversation with someone, especially when I don't know the person. Once a conversation is started though, I do pretty well.

And just like Hal, being a good listener tends to put me into the "good friends" category a lot.

Double D · 08-31-2003, 06:45 PM

Good conversation is a balancing act--a give & take, if two people are to *click* with one another.

I am from the get-the-other-person-to-talk-about him/herself school--because I'm unnaturally shy (long story, but I think I was supposed to be extroverted and that part of my personality got *stifled*).
When they tell me about themselves I can comment on any parallel experiences I might have had, ask them more questions to dig deeper into the topic, or just nod and say uh-huh.

But beyond the Q&A, which I see as a preliminary *getting-to know you* stage of a relationship, I think it's exciting to hear someone speak of what they are passionate about. As long as they don't drone on, ignoring the premise that conversation is a two-way discourse, I have found that honing in on what's really important to someone will keep the convo flowing and will allow a greater depth of exchange.

I find listening to what another person knows about a topic that I either know nothing or near nothing about, can be quite fascinating. If nothing else, I'll learn something new. Conversely, discussing shared interests can work very well, too.

I suppose maybe the key is to be with someone that you see as having something potentially of interest to say, and hopefully they feel the same way about you.

Cynthetiq · 08-31-2003, 06:55 PM

I'll talk your ear of it I'm comforfortable enough, I've been told that I'm a good conversationalist.

Most conversationalists konw a little bit of what's going on in the world, read about various subjects, industries, companies, cultures. Everything you know is something that you can tap into and contribute to a conversation.

here's something that I found that I feel really fits:

Conversationalist

Quote:

Being a Good Conversationalist

The art of conversation involves having the confidence to speak freely about whatever comes to your mind (without self-consciousness or second-guessing yourself), but also in a manner that engages the other person to be interested in what you are saying and feel like you are interested in them as well.

Your conversation can cover many types of topics, such as these:

Talk about current events or news. For example, if you or the other person likes movies, have a story ready about a new release or the latest on a film star (Pam clinched Charles's interest when she talked about Japanese producer Kurasawa's death). Sports lovers can talk excitedly about the latest baseball records (if anyone's close to McGwire or Sosa's homers). Conspiracy theories about Princess Diana's death can stimulate analytic minds.

Use compliments. Notice -- and make a positive comment about -- your date's looks such as eyes or hair), actions (a gesture), expressions, or experiences. Jody was swept away when she slid into the booth at the restaurant and Geoffrey immediately noticed her unusual nail polish!
Ask a question. You might ask, "Where do you work out?" or, "Where's your favorite restaurant?"

Tell an interesting story about what you have done recently. You might have visited the White House or learned a new sport.

Talk about the moment. Tell how you feel about where you are and what you are doing. For example, you might say, "I'm excited to meet you," "I love industrial decor of bistros like this," or "This is my first calm moment after such a crazy day."
Some people seem to be born conversationalists or good talkers. but most people have to learn the skill by practice, getting a sense of what makes other people respond positively. Here are some tips to help you be engaging on your date:

Talk about subjects that are meaningful to you (from cooking to volunteering at a soup kitchen) so the other person can sense your passion.

Choose a subject that can lead to n engaging conversation (like your favorite movies, foods, travel destinations).

Talk about things initially that are positive rather than what makes you mad, so your date will not think you are a complainer.

Use words that are descriptive and rich in imagery (say "sparkling emerald" rather than just "green").

Avoid slang and worn-out clichés ("you know," "like," "uh") that may be a habit but that are boring to hear and don't flatter you.

Be provocative. Ask, "What's your dream for what you would most like to happen?" or "What do you think about the current controversy in the news about..." Or, talk about "My scariest experience growing up..."
Make connections from one subject to another. use the psychological technique of free association: What does one subject make you think of? For example, if you start with the conspiracy theory of Princess Diana's death, then you can connect this to the movie Conspiracy Theory -- with Mel Gibson and Julia Roberts, and from there talk about other Mel Gibson movies you enjoyed, such as Mad Max and how many sequels you've seen.

Keep yourself as informed and diverse as possible. Keep track of the news so you can talk intelligently about major developments in politics (wars in other parts of the world), economics (drops or rises in the stock market), sports (what season it is for which sport, major players (such as Tiger Woods and Michael Jordan), and entertainment (current movie releases, plays, concerts).

Be surprising. Out of the blue you can interject into the conversation, "Oh, the Czechoslovakian President said in a news conference this afternoon that a poor Russia is better than a rich Soviet Union."

Develop the conversation. For example, if you start out with this statement about Russia (the fact), build on it by saying something like, "I thought that was fascinating" (your feeling). Then expand on that with an explanation, such as, "It was, of course, a statement about preferring democracy to communism," and then follow-up with an engaging question, such as, "Would you ever like to go to Russia?"
Make statements and ask open-ended questions to get beyond just "yes" or "no." For example, ask "What is your favorite food?" instead of asking, "Do you like Italian food?"
Being afraid to say anything out of fear you'll sound silly, stupid, or foolish.

In The New Millennium: Saying anything that comes to your mind, however it comes out of your mouth, without intentionally hurting the other person's feelings, of course. That shows confidence about who you are. Get in touch with your intuition. if it sounds strange to you, say so.

Being too humble. Holding back saying nice things about yourself.

In The New Millennium: Don't be afraid to toot your own horn. Hopefully you'll be appreciated and your date will see your fine points without you having to point them out. But you might as well do just that -- point them out. I don't mean that you should be a braggart or give yourself false compliments, but do say nice things about yourself. Talk about your successes and what you've done that you're proud of. Not only might your date be impressed, but he'll see your self-esteem, which will only cycle toward making you feel even better about yourself.

Being afraid to tell a joke because you're not good at it.

In The New Millennium: Remember, humor is the most attractive quality. Punctuate your conversation with a joke. Even if you're not good at joke-telling, you can likely remember and practice telling at least one. Or say, "I'm not great at joke telling, so roll with me on this..."

IC3 · 08-31-2003, 11:00 PM

I am just an all around quiet guy...But when I go out on dates it's hard for me to spark up a conversation...Just cause i am a quiet.

But lucky for me, I have been out on a few dates where they just loved to hear themselves talk, So I just act likes it's someone speaking that i don't understand and just keeping nodding my head..

There was this one girl about 3 or 4 months ago, She was sooo hot, I met her through a friend...And we went out on a couple dates...First thing first, She was of Spanish decent, She was just an all around Beautifull girl.

Anyways, I was in such awe by her beauty..That even when she did talk to me I was hesitant on what to say, I didn't want to say something that would make me sound like an idiot...As the night went on though, She kept telling me to loosen up & relax alittle...That right there told me she was cool shit, Cause she said it in a jokingly kind of way with a smile.

We went out a couple other times and I learned to relax around her...Things got alot better.

anti fishstick · 08-31-2003, 11:07 PM

i appreciate silence just as much if not more than conversation. i'm reminded of a time my friend and i decided to be *bold* and invite ourselves to the table where this guy we were intrigued by/had a crush on was sitting. we said hi and sat down, talking about whatever. we're not really very good conversationalist and quiet people so it was a little awkward. he sat there eating his banana in silence. then he broke the ice and commented on the silence, and how people don't appreciate it as much.. and how it's comforting to be able to just sit in silence and not feel like you have to say anything. it kind of made us feel better about being bad conversationalists :P

juanvaldes · 08-31-2003, 11:08 PM

Simple. Avoid conversation.

Memnoch · 08-31-2003, 11:41 PM

Passion. Passion is the key to charisma. I don't mean to sound arrogant, but passion is about 80 percent of what has gotten me as far along in my life as I have come. Don't make it a conversation - make it a convention! I kid you not, I have made people excited about spinach, simply because I love the vegetable so much. I had an entire room calling back at me as I yelled "Gimme an S!" ("S!"), etc. You just have to let the person know that you care. This passion, this love, this interest sparks desire on many levels - on the basest of levels, it's viril. Being lively, loud, even belligerent at times can spark arousal - "If he's this passionate about spinach, what's he going to be like when we're in bed?" That's probably not going to be a *conscious* thought, especially not on the first date, but I can guarantee you it will be hovering just below the surface. Secondly, the person is going to be thinking "If he's this interested in spinach, what's it going to be like when he starts caring about me?" Letting a woman know, directly or through your actions, how much care and interest you are capable of taking into her is almost never a bad thing. Thirdly, and if nothing else, it makes for great conversation. Just remember to include her. Don't preach about your passion, whatever it is - ask her questions. "I love football. I've got the rulebook memorized, I can tell you every single Super Bowl winner from the first till now. Do you like football? Who's your favorite player? Have you ever been to a game? Isn't it exciting? I get into the hype and the atmosphere so much, I usually don't have a voice for about a week afterwards - and it's great!" See how that works? It doesn't matter what the topic is, so long as you can find even the biggest stretch when it comes to common ground. And if you can't find common ground, the trick is to make that person passionate about what you're passionate about. Hype it up, and be truthful about it. That's the most important - be honest. Be able to follow up what you just said with an example later on. Take her to a game sometime, and make sure you *know* that you can get her into it, or that at the very least, you can show her a good time while you're there.

Passion. It's the key to everything.

guthmund · 09-01-2003, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by juanvaldes
Simple. Avoid conversation.

Amen, Reverend, Amen.

If I notice that someone is uncomfortable in my presence. I'll make small talk to reassure them I'm not about to mug them or steal a kidney.

My biggest problem? Sometimes they volunteer personal stuff that I don't (or shouldn't) really want to hear. Sometimes I'm so amazed at what these folks are saying that I have no alternative then to shrug akwardly and pray for interruption.

On a date....I always talk about them. I've yet to run into anybody that refuses to talk about themselves, and then you just pose questions to keep them going.

ARTelevision · 09-01-2003, 08:52 AM

Cynthetiq,
That is a really great and useful post!
I bet it helps out with Hal's original inquiry a lot!
Thanks!

rogue49 · 09-01-2003, 10:41 AM

As anyone who has met me I'm a conversationist (this can be called an understatement

)

I have an opinion about everything under the sun.
However, most people don't want to talk about your opinion,
they want to talk about what they are thinking about.
Well this is where your opinions in everything comes into play,
but you don't express your opinion, but you use the same knowledge to express interest in THEIR views & thoughts.

Look at them as they talk about their thoughts
Ask interested questions to prompt them for more.
Interject with a few points and stories of your own.
But remember to sincerely listen to their thoughts.

This is not just an act, this is REAL interest in their interests & views.

See, conversation is a TWO way street.
This is not just about you, and what you are interested in.
The conversation may not be finished when you think you've said it all.
And although some might not be as "capable" as yourself intellectually,
EVERYONE has some view to express.

And when I say that it's TWO way street,
it means YOU have to participate also.
Being a "listener", means that you are giving everything in the conversation to them.
Believe it or not, although you are allowing them to express themselves,
you need to express yourself too, and give what you can back.

See, conversation is about SHARING
It means you give
and you get
You listen AND you talk.

And yes, this might be when you're not as interested in the subject as they are.
Because there are times when they might not be as interested in yours.

And why must you do this?
When you think it's waste of time and energy.

Because you are SHARING.
This is communication
This is socializing
This is interacting with other humans.

This is sharing your world with theirs,
because we are all here together
and ALL our experiences are valid.

Thagrastay · 09-01-2003, 02:36 PM

When I was a very young man, I had the most wonderful advice given to me by an accomplished author while we attended a family gathering. I was also fascinated by how this lady would move about the room from person to person, discussing various subjects and leaving each person she spoken with with a most wonderful impression of her and remarks of admiration for her. I asked her how she was able to accomplish that feat. She took my hand, leaned toward me in a very conspiratorial manner and quietly told me that she had learned, through the course of many years, that while in the presence of others, if she spent her time talking about herself, she was considered a bore. If she spent her time talking about someone else, she was a snob. But if she spent her time talking about the person in frpnt of her, she was the most interesting person they had ever met!
I have utilized that advice and formula ever since and I have never found it to fail!
My suggestion about maintaining a conversation, is to pretend you are a reporter or talk-show host and the person you are with is a celebrity you are very curious about. Interview that person. Glean every bit of information about them that you can and pay attention! Most people are amazingly interesting when given the opportunity to be.

08-31-2003, 03:25 PM	#1 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	The Conversationalist ... I am not. (abstract post, feel free to add your comments, suggestions and tips) Some people are naturals, some are not. I can talk, I can preach, I can explain, I can promote. I cannot converse. Eye contact? No problem. Ask questions? I can do that, but I'm not always interested. Acknowledge? Uh huh. Yeah. Uh huh. Right. Yeah. Conversation as a science, I am pretty good at. Conversation as an art, I am dreadfully horrible. It seems some people can make a conversation out of nothing. They just strike it up and suddenly you're interested in talking to them. Charisma... how does one get along without it? So, you're sitting across the table from your date. (S)he's not exactly your intellectual equal, but you gotta talk about SOMETHING, right? What do you say? What do you ask? "I like your hair"? Ok now what? "So, how about them Yankees?" Nobody talks about sports, computers or school on dates.. do they? I've been struggling with conversation forever. Sometimes just DOING something is a great substitute for conversation, but you know if you want to get anywhere special with a special person, you're gonna have to open your mouth. Conversation, it's what's for dinner. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

08-31-2003, 03:37 PM	#3 (permalink)
jfranco13 Crazy Location: Pittsburgh, PA	Find something you have in common. Failing that, you could always just let your date ramble on about something THEY know. Preferably if it's something you're interested in. Or something that one of you are passionate about (without getting into taboo subjects like religion/politics). Failing that, you can usually get interesting conversations about people's taste in movies or music. It's lame at first to ask someone their favorite album, but you might find something about their personality when you do. That can be tricky and it's not for everyone, but sometimes if you're stuck anyway, take a shot. Ask them what they did last weekend, gives you an idea of their hobbies/interests. Another tricky one to introduce but one that could bear fruit. It's hard to explain. There's just SOMETHING. Even if you suck at it, there is probably someone out there that you would feel comfortable talking to and with whom your conversations would flow freely. __________________ We may lose, and we may win, but we will never be here again.

08-31-2003, 03:48 PM	#4 (permalink)
homerhop Insane Location: ÉIRE	I dont talk much, even with my friends I would much prefer to sit and listen than talk. My gf tells me that I am a man of few words. __________________ its evolution baby

08-31-2003, 04:07 PM	#5 (permalink)
Quietus Tilted Location: Tempe, AZ	I have exactly the same problem! I find that I typically would rather listen to someone else then talk myself. I guess it's mainly because I don't like to talk unless I feel like I have something meaningful to contribute to the conversation. I have the same problem with in-class discussions, etc... I'll get talkative sometimes when I'm really tired and feel kind of weird, but that's more babbling than meaningful conversation. I absolutely hate it when I'm expected to make small talk with someone, I never have any idea what to say. __________________ "And I think it’s gonna be a long long time 'Till touchdown brings me 'round again to find I’m not the man they think I am at home Oh, no, no, no, I’m a rocket man, Rocket man, burning out his fuse up here alone..."

08-31-2003, 04:08 PM	#6 (permalink)
JcL Crazy Location: Simi Valley, CA	I have a hypothetical situation of sorts... Humor me.. Say the topic of family is brought up for whatever reason. The advice of staying away from taboo topics (religion/politics) was given. Yet there are other more universal topics such as family that can turn out negative. It turns out your date has an alcholic father. She/he opens up to you about this, and continues to talk about whatever problems she had. I have two schools of thought about this, each with some psychology under it, but I don't know if theres truth to one or either. 1) while your date may not visibly seem distressed, and may even make light of the situation, the topic surely is still a downer - even if just on some subconscious level. Would it be best to change the subject to something the other person is happy about, ie doing well in school etc. You wouldn't want your date to associate the feelings brought up by a depressing discussion with the date itself. And it might not even be a conscious type of association. 2) At the same time, if your date is opening up to you for whatever reason, there must be some relief to get things off their chest, and a stronger connection could be made beyond the dreaded 'small talk.' Should you continue to listen and try to simply be understanding and give your date a chance to vent? What would the pro-conversationalist do? Keep the discussion positive by changing topics or allowing the conversation to take its natural course? __________________ "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth then lies." - Nietzsche

08-31-2003, 03:35 PM	#2 (permalink)
mtsgsd Addict Location: Wisconsin, USA	I can relate! My wife is the type who instantly makes friends with anyone, and can talk easily. I on the other hand, have never understood "small talk". If I don't have something to say, I won't, and I expect others to do so too. Ironicly, she has told me that she has been impressed with how I've held my own at get togethers with the inlaws (immediate family of 32 people!). Meanwhile I feel like a square peg being forced thru a round hole! LOL

08-31-2003, 04:10 PM	#7 (permalink)
cchris Junkie Location: Sydney	I'm far from a natural so I tend to make light of most situations if starting a conversation with someone that I have just met. It also helps me if the surroundings are familiar as well. I pick out something quirky around us and start from there. But if the subject matter,well,if it is of high interest to me then I can waffle on for ages and be a bore. __________________ There's a fine line between participation and mockery

08-31-2003, 04:31 PM	#10 (permalink)
vermin Indifferent to anti-matter Location: Tucson, AZ	I can identify with some of the previous posters statements about economy of words. I have been told that the best way to appear to be a good conversationalist is to ask the kind of questions that get the other person to do most of the talking. Most of the time this results in having to listen to a lot of Other People's Bullshit that I couldn't care less about. But it usually beats the alternative of opening up and boring the piss out of someone who doesn't care about my bullshit. Then again you could just go through Tilted Humor and memorize all the jokes and just keep on and on telling jokes until people run screaming from the room. As you can see, I'm as clueless as anyone about this stuff, but you can always try new ideas and marvel at the ensuing social atrocity. Edit to answer the un-asked question: Yes, I'm just as bad at conversation as I am at writing. __________________ If puns were sausages, this would be the wurst. Last edited by vermin; 08-31-2003 at 04:34 PM..

08-31-2003, 04:45 PM	#11 (permalink)
Tickford Insane Location: Australia	Halx, I so hear what you are saying. I think that I suffer from the same problem as you. I cant just strike up a chat with anyone. I hate it cause I struggle to just start talking to people. Once I get going Im not too bad. But its just the starting that I really suck at. Maybe this is why in single? I hate going to parties that I dont really know anyone and try to avoid them at all cost. I would rather sit at home by myself that go party packed with people I dont really know and stand there with no-one to talk to. And I have lots of "good friends" too. Which I really hate. So I guess I know what you are feeling? __________________ Anyone who goes to a psychiatrist ought to have his head examined. Samuel Goldwyn

08-31-2003, 05:05 PM	#12 (permalink)
ratbastid Darth Papa Location: Yonder	I run hot and cold about this. Sometimes I'll be sitting with a group of friends and realize I haven't said a word in ten minutes, and other times I'm the life of the party--leading the conversation, making jokes and connections with prior topics, that sort of thing. I think the main difference is, when I'm keeping to myself, I'm spending mental energy keeping up with the conversation and trying to figure out what to say, and when I'm dancing right along in the conversation, I'm not thinking about any of that, I'm just... dancing.

08-31-2003, 06:38 PM	#13 (permalink)
WhoaitsZ Crazy Location: right behind you...	i'm basically the opposite. i am always thinking and so i always say -something-. i can easily hold a conversation on anything i know about. if i don't i can sit and listen, but if yer boring then forget it. my life is so much faster than others.. i feel rushed.. i feel like i got to say what i have to say and say it NOW. however, when i'm quiet i get pissed if people bug me to talk.

08-31-2003, 06:42 PM	#14 (permalink)
spectre Junkie	For the most part, I'm a listener. I can make it very easy for people to just talk to me. I find that the best way to learn about anything is to just shut up and listen. Paying attention to detail is important too. Remembering little details about what others have said make conversation easier later. After I'm comfortable talking with a person, and know enough about them, it's very easy for me to hold a coversation with them. But, for the most part, I'm a very quiet person. It's usually very difficult for me to start a conversation with someone, especially when I don't know the person. Once a conversation is started though, I do pretty well. And just like Hal, being a good listener tends to put me into the "good friends" category a lot. __________________ "Fuck these chains No goddamn slave I will be different" ~ Machine Head

08-31-2003, 06:45 PM	#15 (permalink)
Double D Junkie Location: Chicagoland	Good conversation is a balancing act--a give & take, if two people are to click with one another. I am from the get-the-other-person-to-talk-about him/herself school--because I'm unnaturally shy (long story, but I think I was supposed to be extroverted and that part of my personality got stifled). When they tell me about themselves I can comment on any parallel experiences I might have had, ask them more questions to dig deeper into the topic, or just nod and say uh-huh. But beyond the Q&A, which I see as a preliminary getting-to know you stage of a relationship, I think it's exciting to hear someone speak of what they are passionate about. As long as they don't drone on, ignoring the premise that conversation is a two-way discourse, I have found that honing in on what's really important to someone will keep the convo flowing and will allow a greater depth of exchange. I find listening to what another person knows about a topic that I either know nothing or near nothing about, can be quite fascinating. If nothing else, I'll learn something new. Conversely, discussing shared interests can work very well, too. I suppose maybe the key is to be with someone that you see as having something potentially of interest to say, and hopefully they feel the same way about you. Last edited by Double D; 09-01-2003 at 05:45 PM..

08-31-2003, 11:00 PM	#17 (permalink)
IC3 Poison Location: Canada	I am just an all around quiet guy...But when I go out on dates it's hard for me to spark up a conversation...Just cause i am a quiet. But lucky for me, I have been out on a few dates where they just loved to hear themselves talk, So I just act likes it's someone speaking that i don't understand and just keeping nodding my head.. There was this one girl about 3 or 4 months ago, She was sooo hot, I met her through a friend...And we went out on a couple dates...First thing first, She was of Spanish decent, She was just an all around Beautifull girl. Anyways, I was in such awe by her beauty..That even when she did talk to me I was hesitant on what to say, I didn't want to say something that would make me sound like an idiot...As the night went on though, She kept telling me to loosen up & relax alittle...That right there told me she was cool shit, Cause she said it in a jokingly kind of way with a smile. We went out a couple other times and I learned to relax around her...Things got alot better.

08-31-2003, 11:07 PM	#18 (permalink)
anti fishstick Post-modernism meets Individualism AKA the Clash Location: oregon	i appreciate silence just as much if not more than conversation. i'm reminded of a time my friend and i decided to be bold and invite ourselves to the table where this guy we were intrigued by/had a crush on was sitting. we said hi and sat down, talking about whatever. we're not really very good conversationalist and quiet people so it was a little awkward. he sat there eating his banana in silence. then he broke the ice and commented on the silence, and how people don't appreciate it as much.. and how it's comforting to be able to just sit in silence and not feel like you have to say anything. it kind of made us feel better about being bad conversationalists :P __________________ And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. ~Anais Nin

08-31-2003, 11:08 PM	#19 (permalink)
juanvaldes Banned Location: shittown, CA	Simple. Avoid conversation.

08-31-2003, 11:41 PM	#20 (permalink)
Memnoch Insane Location: Land of milk and honey - Wisconsin	Passion. Passion is the key to charisma. I don't mean to sound arrogant, but passion is about 80 percent of what has gotten me as far along in my life as I have come. Don't make it a conversation - make it a convention! I kid you not, I have made people excited about spinach, simply because I love the vegetable so much. I had an entire room calling back at me as I yelled "Gimme an S!" ("S!"), etc. You just have to let the person know that you care. This passion, this love, this interest sparks desire on many levels - on the basest of levels, it's viril. Being lively, loud, even belligerent at times can spark arousal - "If he's this passionate about spinach, what's he going to be like when we're in bed?" That's probably not going to be a conscious thought, especially not on the first date, but I can guarantee you it will be hovering just below the surface. Secondly, the person is going to be thinking "If he's this interested in spinach, what's it going to be like when he starts caring about me?" Letting a woman know, directly or through your actions, how much care and interest you are capable of taking into her is almost never a bad thing. Thirdly, and if nothing else, it makes for great conversation. Just remember to include her. Don't preach about your passion, whatever it is - ask her questions. "I love football. I've got the rulebook memorized, I can tell you every single Super Bowl winner from the first till now. Do you like football? Who's your favorite player? Have you ever been to a game? Isn't it exciting? I get into the hype and the atmosphere so much, I usually don't have a voice for about a week afterwards - and it's great!" See how that works? It doesn't matter what the topic is, so long as you can find even the biggest stretch when it comes to common ground. And if you can't find common ground, the trick is to make that person passionate about what you're passionate about. Hype it up, and be truthful about it. That's the most important - be honest. Be able to follow up what you just said with an example later on. Take her to a game sometime, and make sure you know that you can get her into it, or that at the very least, you can show her a good time while you're there. Passion. It's the key to everything. __________________ Doing my best not to end up like Kathleen Chang.

09-01-2003, 08:52 AM	#22 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	Cynthetiq, That is a really great and useful post! I bet it helps out with Hal's original inquiry a lot! Thanks! __________________ create evolution

09-01-2003, 10:41 AM	#23 (permalink)
rogue49 Loser	As anyone who has met me I'm a conversationist (this can be called an understatement) I have an opinion about everything under the sun. However, most people don't want to talk about your opinion, they want to talk about what they are thinking about. Well this is where your opinions in everything comes into play, but you don't express your opinion, but you use the same knowledge to express interest in THEIR views & thoughts. Look at them as they talk about their thoughts Ask interested questions to prompt them for more. Interject with a few points and stories of your own. But remember to sincerely listen to their thoughts. This is not just an act, this is REAL interest in their interests & views. See, conversation is a TWO way street. This is not just about you, and what you are interested in. The conversation may not be finished when you think you've said it all. And although some might not be as "capable" as yourself intellectually, EVERYONE has some view to express. And when I say that it's TWO way street, it means YOU have to participate also. Being a "listener", means that you are giving everything in the conversation to them. Believe it or not, although you are allowing them to express themselves, you need to express yourself too, and give what you can back. See, conversation is about SHARING It means you give and you get You listen AND you talk. And yes, this might be when you're not as interested in the subject as they are. Because there are times when they might not be as interested in yours. And why must you do this? When you think it's waste of time and energy. Because you are SHARING. This is communication This is socializing This is interacting with other humans. This is sharing your world with theirs, because we are all here together and ALL our experiences are valid.

09-01-2003, 02:36 PM	#24 (permalink)
Thagrastay Crazy Location: Handrail, Montana	When I was a very young man, I had the most wonderful advice given to me by an accomplished author while we attended a family gathering. I was also fascinated by how this lady would move about the room from person to person, discussing various subjects and leaving each person she spoken with with a most wonderful impression of her and remarks of admiration for her. I asked her how she was able to accomplish that feat. She took my hand, leaned toward me in a very conspiratorial manner and quietly told me that she had learned, through the course of many years, that while in the presence of others, if she spent her time talking about herself, she was considered a bore. If she spent her time talking about someone else, she was a snob. But if she spent her time talking about the person in frpnt of her, she was the most interesting person they had ever met! I have utilized that advice and formula ever since and I have never found it to fail! My suggestion about maintaining a conversation, is to pretend you are a reporter or talk-show host and the person you are with is a celebrity you are very curious about. Interview that person. Glean every bit of information about them that you can and pay attention! Most people are amazingly interesting when given the opportunity to be. __________________ "That's it! They've got the cuffs on him, he's IN the car!"