4thTimeLucky

Its not a universal rule, I know.

BUT wherever I look I see more and more evidence of girls only wanting to date 'bad guys'. Even to the extent of girls listing off hundreds of attractive qualities about guys they 'really like', only to say that they're "too nice" and dating some idiot who screws them about.

I'm a nice guy, who's found himself a nice girl, but even then I find that the worse I treat her the more she wants me, but treating her well means I'm taken for granted.

I don't get it. Please tell me I'm just imagining things. Or explain to me why this happens and how you can deal with it without turning into a monster.

[PS Before you ask, I don't beat up my girlfriend!]

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GuttersnipeXL

Shocking as it may sound there are girls out there who enjoy relationships with nice guys. My girlfriend is nice and I was always thought of as a "nice guy". Being a nice guy through and through will definently hook you up in the end. Being a dick is the most ridiculous way to get girls. Yeah, you get the girl but remember, you're still a dick. I guess what I'm saying is don't be a dick for the sake of some cooch. If that is all yer looking for, then go for it, but to have a meaningful relationship leave that shit at the door. Solid relationships aren't built on these terms. This reply is scatterbrain, maybe someone can make some sense of what I'm trying to say.

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SecretMethod70

In the end, being a nice person leads to a more fulfilling and long-lasting relationship. The girls that go for the "bad guys" are either screwed up or still young. If they're screwed up there's nothing you can do, Uncle Willy molested them when they were younger or mommy beat them or something, but if they're young then eventually they'll come around. Either that or they'll end up with a series of failed marriages. They're attracted to the "bad guys" because, from an evolutionary perspective, they're the ones showing power. Well, thankfully we're not monkey-like anymore, so it's an invalid assessment left over from centuries of development.

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

World's King

For a lack of a better way to put it... I'm an asshole.


I used to be able to get any girl I wanted... But as women mature they don't want to deal with shit anymore. So, as the older I get the less and less I'm having sex. Pretty soon I'm gonna be buying blow up dolls and cases of Astro-Glide.

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4thTimeLucky

That's what I think exactly. The bit I don't get though is the...

"Yeah, you get the girl but remember, you're still a dick."

Why do you get the girl, why?

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Lebell

Bingo. WK hit the nail on the head.

This is 100% true fellas. As the bad boys get older, marriage to them sucks more and more and the 'charm' of being 'bad' counts for less and less. Pretty soon bad boys are just old assholes, frequently divorced old assholes.

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The_Dude

it's hard finding a date in high school nowadays.

all the pretty chicks seem to go off w/ bad guys. guys that smoke (weed among other things), drink, sleep around and everything of that sort.

i dont see what they see in these guys when there are "good guys" like me.

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phoenix1002

Unfortunately, I don't know the answer to this question... wish I did.

I'm curious though, if anyone remembers the old thread, something like "How many people have you been with". There were some people who had only been with 5 or less people, and some who had been with 30+. I'm curious to know if the ones who have been with quite a few people would consider themselves to be "bad guys"? I'm wording this poorly, I know, but hopefully you get the gist of the question. I also hope nobody takes offense... that is definitely not my goal here.

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I approach college much like a recovering alcoholic--one day at a time...

GuttersnipeXL

One of lifes many mysteries my friend!

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When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. HST

yournamehere

I think it's univeral - Girls could just as well ask. "Why do guys always choose the "bad girls?"

Everybody seeks adventure in their lives to some extent, but as we mature, we realize that there are far more important qualities to look for in a mate.

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*Nikki*

It is really not that women want men who treat them like shit, it's just that the majority of men do it.

Also the majority of men who treat women badly are the attractive ones. The less attractive men tend to be the nicer ones. I don't know why this is, but this is definately the experience I have had.

Of course there are exceptions to it.

Of course I always fall for the men who treat me badly because I am screwed up like that.

Deep down though I want a nice man who is attractive to me as well. I just haven't found him yet.

Grothendieck

4thTime I think there's a difference between the "generic" girl who falls for bad guys, and the way your girlfriend reacts.

Concerning the 1st case. First, it is my cynical belief that out of any given group of human beings, 90% are complete idiots. This includes our female population, so don't worry about them. You will never understand them, and you don't want anything to do with them.

Concerning the 2nd case (more seriously): Most people seek security in a relationship, and when they get too much, they start going off on adventures. It's as if we want to be loved, and despised at the same time. Most people can't deal with total safety in a relationship: "You can feel *too* secure". So I don't think your girlfriend actually gets a kick out of you treating her badly, but rather that she notices superficially something she knew subconsciously all along: That you are her "special person", and that your love and well-doings are not to be taken for granted.

P.S. I just noticed Nikki's signature. Seems like evidence for my theory, right?

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phoenix1002

This seems like a cycle to me.
The attractive guy finds out that, because he's attractive, people, especially girls, tend to like him. He discovers that, even if he's an ass, girls still find him attractive. Less attractive guys find that they can't get by on looks alone, so they become nicer guys in order to survive socially. The girls, however, still find the asshole to be more attractive, so although some girls might think he's an ass, others will still keep going for him because they like how he looks. So it continues.

I hope I worded this in a way that makes sense, it definitely makes sense in my head.
This works the other way around, too, I just put it this way because that's what the original question asked.

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I'd rather be climbing...

I approach college much like a recovering alcoholic--one day at a time...

rogue49

At an youthful age, being with a "bad guy" is part of being rebellious, adventurous and exploring.
Unfortunately, it also takes them a "few" times before they realize there are significant disadvantages.
They don't notice the subtler signs & ambiguous hints with their inexperience.

Grothendieck

Don't worry about your wording phoenix... You and Nikki have good points there. That's why I fall for attractive women who aren't attractive in an obvious way: They're just as attractive as the obvious types, but they get less positive feedback, and get less bloated about it. Isn't that the most attractive thing you can find in a person (and I don't mean that *only* in a sexual way): Someone who is overwhelmingly attractive, but isn't aware of the fact, and maybe is even shy about it?

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ARTelevision

many people make "bad" decisions - and that's exactly what they are...

eventually, some people learn to make "good" decisions - then good things happen.

Some things in life are painfully simple.

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BBtB

I wonder if I am attractive? I get compliments. Not ALL the time but often. But I am very shy and also don't think I am that attractive. I am also not an asshole but I do have a theory. Girls like assholes. Thats the theory and it gets proved over and over again. Thats fine be that way if you want but do NOT say all men are assholes. There is nothing that pisses me off more then to see a girl date asshole after asshole then after like the 5th guy she goes "All men are assholes!" which isn't true. You just date assholes. All I am saying is to any girl who has ever said/thought "all men are assholes" take a step back and look at the men you date.

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"I would like about three fiddy"

rekinom

Post removed.

JumpinJesus

In my opinion and experience, the women who tend to go for the "bad guys" do so because they feel that the relationship will be unpredictable and exciting.

What they often fail to realize is that the unpredictability and the excitement quickly wear off when they begin being treated like shit only to find themselves stuck in the relationship.

Yes, I believe that a lot of these women go for these men due to some sort of insecurities they may have about themselves. But then again, the assholes they date have the same issues and insecurities, that's why they are "bad" to begin with.

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Johnny Rotten

I wouldn't give too much analysis to this phenomenon. Fact is, a lot of people are dumb. The majority, probably. And when you're dumb and see asshole behavior, you misinterpret it as confidence, when it's actually the exact fucking opposite. Confrontation and derision is overwhelmingly a sign of insecurity and general frustration.

It's not about nice guys not keeping the girl. It's not about the asshole that does. It's all about the smart girl that recognizes genuine confidence and intelligence, and sees though cheap brashness.

Oh, and nice guys are usually too passive for their own good.

snowy

As a female, I can say I honestly don't understand why girls dig bad guys. I never have and I never will--I saw too many of my friends in high school go after "bad" guys and end up knocked up/heartbroken/abandoned.

I personally like nice guys who might be a little deviant...interested in smoking weed now and again, drinking a bit, maybe getting a little kinky...but that's as far as that goes. A guy's gotta treat me like a queen or he's gone. Generally, nice guys tend to succeed in this area more

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cinnles

I think dicks usually have more self confidence than nice guys, that might have something to do with it...

laconic1

I qualify as a nice guy, and that is definitely a major part of the problem for me. It's just easier to admire a girl from afar than to actually go up to her and take a chance.

phunktastic

It sure does seem that way sometimes

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fastom

"Being a nice guy through and through will definently hook you up in the end."

Unfortunately we die at the end so that's not so good.

The bad guys aren't even good looking in many cases. Explain me why guys with a horrid complexion, balding, short, arrogant, and no money and a small dick gets girls... is confidence (whether real or imagined) that big a deal?

I find that stupid people can't realize risk or errors as easily thus have more confidence. Just like drinking is bravado-in-a-bottle, it doesn't make you more confident, just less aware of risks.

Nice guys do finish last.

Ashton

guthmund

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4thTimeLucky

Thanks for all your thoughts guys (and gals), nice to know I'm not alone on this one.

I think I agree with phoenix and the "good looking guys become arrogant, less attractive guys work at being nice" theory. Even though that condemns most of us to being ugly munters.

I also agree with the line "nice guys are too passive for their own good".

My own thinking when I see a nice girl usually goes along the lines of:
1. To get somewhere I'll need to make a move.
2. But it must get annoying to be hit on all the time.
3. All I am judging this girl on is her looks and a snippet of conversation, so wouldn't it be shallow of me to approach her on that basis?
4. I never like being shallow and I never like to put myself before others (and risking her feeling hit on would do just that).
5. Therefore, I shouldn't make a move.

Bad guys thinking seems to go something like this:
1. That's a nice piece of ass.
2. I think I'll f#ck it.

Or, a classic from a conversation I had yesterday with a male model:
1. I thought she was alright, but nothing special.
2. My mate Gaz went on about how fit she was.
3. So I thought I'd f#ck her.
[And he did]

You may be wondering how I managed to find a girl given the above. Well, I gues the same way that all "nice" guys do. I took all of the things that "nice guys" do to succeed (be nice, smart, thoughtful, interesting etc.) and just tried to do them as best I damn well could. It took me two years to get the girl I wanted this way and believe me I had to show myself to be pretty damned nice/smart/witty to do it.

There must be an easier way than this and I think I know what it is, but I just wanted to hear everyones thoughts. Keep them coming.

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Sun Tzu

Its perplexed me for a long time. The answer I get alot is they enjoy the challenge. IMO its self worth issues.

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neoinoakleys

You know this is an interresting topic, and I took it upon myself to ask that question to a few girls I know...this is what I came out with...

It was pretty unanimous that woman like the bad boy for a few reasons.

1. They think of them as a project. They think they could work on them and turn them into what they want.

2. They like the excitement and unpredictability, they view this as exciting. Except when it starts to get out of hand.

3. They like the bad boy when younger because they are not looking to get married just yet. They are looking only for excitement and adventure. As they get older, they start to calm down and start looking more long term. This is when they look for the guy they can marry.

So all in all....Be a bad boy if you want younger girls just to have sex with. But in the long run all women want marry a stable man that is going to treat them right.

Bad boy = fuckable and dumpable
Nice = Marriable

Just my 2 cents...

I would like to say that I think I have taken a pretty good cross section of girls....(I own a model promotion agency)

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double

Ok,..i can only speak for my self and I dont want to generalize..
I dont like guys who treat me badly. And I dont think I personally know anybody who does...
But I do like the guy to have some balls and him to put his foot down when its needed. Especially with me ( I have a strong will and can be stubborn sometimes) . This doesnt mean that he should treat me bad but to be equal and have self respect. I find it very attractive in a man when he can show intelligence and a high self-esteem. I dont want a man to give me EVERYTHING i want anytime I want. I think, the relationship stays on a healthier level if he doesnt. The way I see it : Treat eachoher with respect, understanding and passion + have trust - in yourself and the other person..
I have a couple expieriences of dating guys who dont stand up for them selves and dont put their foot down or express their wants and needs... with time i lost interest...

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4thTimeLucky

Thanks for appreciating the topic neoinoakleys and for going to such lengths in the name of scientific investigation.

Certainly plenty to think about.

Double: I hear what you've said from a few girls, but it still leaves the challenge of 'treat me like a princess' versus 'don't give me everything I want'. (A dilemma that's up there with "when girls say no they mean yes" versus "when girls say no they mean no-and-if-you-persist-i'll-file-charges"). Its a thin and tricky line to tread, knowing what not to give and when not to give it, but I guess practice makes perfect.

Great quote:
"Be a bad boy if you want younger girls just to have sex with"

If that's the bottom line is there any male who wouldn't want to be a bad boy?

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BoCo

I used to get so pissed off when I would get dumped for being a nice guy. It took a long time to figure out how to use it to my advantage, but I finally did a few years back. When I start seeing a new girl, I just treat her really well from the beginning; I never hit her, yell at her in a demeaning way, I'm not emotionally abusive, and I show her plenty of attention. If she eventually dumps me because I'm a "nice guy", then I just consider it the same as test driving a car at its limits; if you drive the hell out of a car on a test drive and it shows signs of bad quality, you just take it back and consider it a piece of shit that you won't waste your time with. The same works with women. If she breaks up with you because you're a kind and caring guy, then just be glad you didn't marry the crazy bitch and have kids with her before you found out how fucked in the head she was.

On the other hand, if you treat her incredibly well and she's appreciative of it, then you know you've found a winner.

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4thTimeLucky

"consider it a piece of shit"
"fucked in the head"
"crazy bitch"

I'm glad to see that you take breaks up so well. I'd hate to see you when you don't!

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I've been 4thTimeLucky, you've been great. Goodnight and God bless!

BBtB

I think you just hit the nail on the head right there. For some stupid reason confidence makes girls legs spread like nothing else. And to a degree I understand way. I mean who wants to date a sniveling winer? But remember go for a go with confidence TO A POINT. Rember that a guy who is ultra confident has no use for your ass. I mean ask yourself why is he confident? Well he knows if you reject him then he can get another girl in like 30 minutes. But remember the works inversly to. He can stick around long enough to fuck you and THEN go off and use his confidence to fuck your best friend then just move on.

John Henry

It's so true! I'm a complete asshole and the ladies just can't get enough of me

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Serpent

This is why i have never really had a girlfriend.. life sucks sometimes, then again this helps the wallet alot..

On a side note mabye i just need to fiind a bad girl and it compensates out that way..

BoCo

I take breakups just fine, dude. Don't make any assumptions that I don't. I used my wording to make a point, nothing else. Never make accusations towards me that I can't handle my anger, or you'll end up on the wrong side of it.

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bigoldalphamale

the only thing bad girls offer is an extremely intense and fast involvement that sends you hurdling to the girls like donna reed or june cleaver.

double

I agree, it can seem to be a tricky thing. But its really quite simple. Treat her like you would treat yourself or a good friend of yours, have enough trust and respect for her that you'll trust she can handle you not being 'super-nice' and pleasing her all the time. Treat her like she is a human being, not a Godess. That way she'll respect you as well and doesnt start looking down on you. Just use common sense and be honest with yourself and her.

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