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Old 05-14-2003, 01:11 PM   #1 (permalink)
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2nd student files suit on hazing suspension

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Second student files lawsuit over hazing suspensions

GLENVIEW, Ill. (AP) — A second student suspended after participating in a videotaped hazing incident filed a lawsuit Tuesday to prevent the punishment from being enforced.

The girl, listed as Jane Doe, filed the lawsuit in Cook County Chancery Court against William Eike, Glenbrook North High School's dean of students.

The lawsuit seeks an emergency injunction against the suspension, an official in the clerk's office said.

The lawsuit came as the school announced it has now suspended 32 seniors, 28 girls and four boys, for their involvement in the incident. School officials would not say what role the boys played.

The 10-day suspensions were the longest the school could hand down, said Principal Michael Riggle. It will be up to the school district to decide whether to expel the students, he said.

"We have never tolerated actions of this nature within our school or by our students within the community, nor will we now or in the future," Riggle said.

The students have three days to begin the appeals process.

Within hours of Monday's disciplinary decision, senior Marnie Holz, 18, filed a lawsuit.

A judge Tuesday agreed to expedite consideration of Holz's request and set a hearing for Wednesday.

Senior girls from the school beat their junior classmates and showered them with mud, feces and garbage on May 4 at a Cook County park. Five girls were injured seriously enough that they needed to go to the hospital.

Although the hazing took place off campus, Riggle said the school district's lawyer advised him that the school had broader powers to discipline students than he had thought.

Suspensions could bar students from the prom and graduation. Expulsion from the school would not prevent seniors from graduating. Those seniors who have not yet earned enough credits to graduate will be sent to "alternative education" to complete their studies, Riggle said.

The school found that the students violated laws on hazing and assault. The investigation also found the students violated the school's hazing policy and the Illinois school code. Authorities have said criminal charges are likely.

Authorities have been investigating anonymous tips that parents provided kegs of beer for the hazing, which started as a "powder puff" football game. So far, they have no solid leads, Northbrook police said.


This really pisses me the fuck off.
Can someone please tell me why everyone thinks that when they break the law they should not be punished.
Does anyone other than me realize that laws are made so that complete chaos doesn't break out?
I'd never have to worry about having a kid that did something this dumb, but if I did there's no way in hell I'd let them appeal. I would tell the school to suspend them.
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Old 05-14-2003, 01:19 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I AGREE.THE SENIORS GOT OUT OF HAND.THEY EARNEDTHE POSITION TO BE PUNISHED
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Old 05-14-2003, 01:21 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally posted by sixate
Can someone please tell me why everyone thinks that when they break the law they should not be punished.
Does anyone other than me realize that laws are made so that complete chaos doesn't break out?
I'd never have to worry about having a kid that did something this dumb, but if I did there's no way in hell I'd let them appeal. I would tell the school to suspend them.
I agree with you on this one. It's really amazing how people feel that they can do whatever they want to and can cry and sue to get out of it. I just find it funny that she's suing over being suspended when there could have been much worse consequences for her.
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Old 05-14-2003, 01:26 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Yes.. worse consequences... let me ask...

WHERE THE FUCK ARE THE PARENTS??!?!??!?! The parents are the ones who are not talking to these children saying that they were WRONG in doing what they did and should TAKE THEIR FAIR PUNISHMENT?
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Old 05-14-2003, 01:51 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally posted by Cynthetiq
Yes.. worse consequences... let me ask...

WHERE THE FUCK ARE THE PARENTS??!?!??!?! The parents are the ones who are not talking to these children saying that they were WRONG in doing what they did and should TAKE THEIR FAIR PUNISHMENT?
Not to jump to conclusions, but the parents are probably the ones that don't want to see their kids punished, and probably the ones who suggested to their daughter to sue, and use their family lawyer to get out of trouble.

I'm surprised harsher penalties were not delt. If the evidence is plain and clear I think expulsion would be the least of punishments they receive.
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Old 05-14-2003, 02:12 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally posted by kurty[B]

I'm surprised harsher penalties were not delt. If the evidence is plain and clear I think expulsion would be the least of punishments they receive.
This is local news in my area, and I believe I've heard a number of times that assault-type charges will be filed by the police against those that have either been caught on video-tape and/or are fingered by witnesses, 50 of which btw, were boys standing around watching and cheering.

Many of those involved are spoiled rich kids, whose parents have questionable moral standards, but thick wallets. Their darlings can do no wrong, and they will hire the best attorneys to make that point.
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Old 05-14-2003, 02:15 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally posted by Double D
Many of those involved are spoiled rich kids, whose parents have questionable moral standards, but thick wallets. Their darlings can do no wrong, and they will hire the best attorneys to make that point.
let them learn that their shit stinks just like everyone else's...I hope that they get a judge that DOESN'T take this crap.
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Old 05-14-2003, 02:48 PM   #8 (permalink)
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If they gonna expedite the appeal process for the suspensions, will they expedite whatever assault charges come about, as well? Fair is fair, I think.

Here's to some big black marks on their permanent records!
 
Old 05-14-2003, 02:55 PM   #9 (permalink)
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This is just stupid, why can't people accept that they've broken the law and take responsibility for their actions these days?
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Old 05-14-2003, 03:37 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: 2nd student files suit on hazing suspension

Quote:
Originally posted by sixate
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This really pisses me the fuck off.
Can someone please tell me why everyone thinks that when they break the law they should not be punished.
Does anyone other than me realize that laws are made so that complete chaos doesn't break out?
I'd never have to worry about having a kid that did something this dumb, but if I did there's no way in hell I'd let them appeal. I would tell the school to suspend them. [/B]

Sixate, this is one of the few times that I agree with you wholeheartedly. I couldnt have said it better myself.
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Old 05-14-2003, 03:45 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Judging by the video, the parents were taping it.
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Old 05-14-2003, 05:47 PM   #12 (permalink)
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As far as I am concerned, if it happens off campus, the school should stay out of it. It is up to the police and parents to deal with things that happen off campus.

Esp. if the police do file charges against some students, they shouldn't be punished by the school, and the courts.
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Old 05-14-2003, 06:08 PM   #13 (permalink)
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The school has no right to punish the students. I was involved in a similar instance once where me and some friends egged a house or 10. The parents of the kids whose houses we egged tried to get the school to suspend us. The school basically told them to fuck off and talk to the police. They never did (Thankfully).
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Old 05-14-2003, 06:38 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally posted by Greg700
As far as I am concerned, if it happens off campus, the school should stay out of it. It is up to the police and parents to deal with things that happen off campus.

Esp. if the police do file charges against some students, they shouldn't be punished by the school, and the courts.
my private school deemed a 5 miles radius around the school as to be a ANYTHING HAPPENS jurisdiction, just for reasons like this and this was in the 80's.
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Old 05-14-2003, 07:23 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I agree. Suspend them, expel them, then make them wear funny hats. Not to make less of what they did, no.
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Old 05-14-2003, 07:24 PM   #16 (permalink)
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The school has no right to punish the students.
Fine, then arrest them and throw them in juvinile hall, where they'll get treated much worse. Is that what you had in mind?
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Old 05-14-2003, 10:04 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Fine, then arrest them and throw them in juvinile hall, where they'll get treated much worse. Is that what you had in mind?
Why not? If they have committed criminal acts, the legal system should decide what should happen. Schools are not above the legal system.
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Old 05-15-2003, 01:30 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Sorry to interrupt on the orgy of confirmation here, but.. um... they hire the lawyers and try to fight it, because they can.
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Old 05-15-2003, 05:03 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Sorry to interrupt on the orgy of confirmation here, but.. um... they hire the lawyers and try to fight it, because they can.
right... and look like even bigger asshats in the process.
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Old 05-15-2003, 05:17 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I'm still wondering though why we haven't heard anything from the parents of the kids put in the hospital. Shouldn't they be doing something instead of the school? This would especially true in my eyes if a few of the parents add kegs of beer to the party to kick the hazing off... That contributing to the delinquency of a minor isn't it? And it just seems odd that a school can claim jurisdiction over property that isn't even theirs. I don’t mind the school taking action the kids need to be punished, but where are the parents?
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Old 05-15-2003, 05:26 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally posted by Dark_Prophecy
I'm still wondering though why we haven't heard anything from the parents of the kids put in the hospital. Shouldn't they be doing something instead of the school? This would especially true in my eyes if a few of the parents add kegs of beer to the party to kick the hazing off... That contributing to the delinquency of a minor isn't it? And it just seems odd that a school can claim jurisdiction over property that isn't even theirs. I don’t mind the school taking action the kids need to be punished, but where are the parents?
I don't know... I've been wondering about that from day 1. I think that they've all been told by legal advisors to not say anything because it may jeopardize the cases when brought to civil/criminal court. But even to hear the sound byte.. "No Comment"
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Old 05-15-2003, 05:28 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally posted by Double D
Many of those involved are spoiled rich kids, whose parents have questionable moral standards, but thick wallets. Their darlings can do no wrong, and they will hire the best attorneys to make that point.
I take offense to blanket statements such as that. Having grown up about 15-25 minutes away from that neighborhood, and now working with many people from that area, I know that there are plenty of good, decent people who come out of there. Demonizing those who have money is pointless and really just shows a lack of understanding, or, perhaps, caring to understand. As with most things, I don't think the issue is that this is an overall corrupt group of people, just that the corrupt are the most visible. I don't make blanket statements about the African American population in the US just because a disproportionate number of them are incarcerated, just like I don't make blanket statements about all people from an area or who have a significant amount of money just because the most vocal of those groups are people with questionable morals.


Anyway, back on topic. I'm a bit torn on this one. I honestly don't think the school has a right to mete out any punishment to these students BUT I strongly believe that they ought to be punished for their actions. I'd much prefer to see each and every one of them brought to trial and given hefty fines/stays in juvenile hall/prison if applicable. I'm not talking about a year or anything, but I do think a few months of prison time would do them some good. For most, that would leave a life-long impression in their heads as far as thinking about the consequences of their actions.

Unfortunately, I don't trust that punishment to come from the courts considering their age and that they're probably all first time offenders (not to mention, let's face it, that they're female). So, I'mleft with no other choice than to fully support and hope that the school expels every last one of them and that the expulsion is upheld through any appeals, despite the precedent such an action sets.
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Old 05-15-2003, 05:29 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally posted by kurty
Not to jump to conclusions, but the parents are probably the ones that don't want to see their kids punished, and probably the ones who suggested to their daughter to sue, and use their family lawyer to get out of trouble.

I'm surprised harsher penalties were not delt. If the evidence is plain and clear I think expulsion would be the least of punishments they receive.
..not to mention the ones to purchase the alcohol.

This is just yet another example of how much of a failure at parenting that the baby-boomer generation is.
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Old 05-15-2003, 05:35 AM   #24 (permalink)
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..not to mention the ones to purchase the alcohol.

This is just yet another example of how much of a failure at parenting that the baby-boomer generation is.
Yes, any parent who contributed to this by purchasing alcohol or any other means ought to be punished to the full extent as well. I want to see dents in these parent's and kid's wallets and major disruption to their lives.
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Old 05-15-2003, 05:42 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Yes, any parent who contributed to this by purchasing alcohol or any other means ought to be punished to the full extent as well. I want to see dents in these parent's and kid's wallets and major disruption to their lives.
I would prefer chemical castration, to ensure that such horrible parents never reproduce again.
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Old 05-15-2003, 06:05 AM   #26 (permalink)
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I would prefer chemical castration, to ensure that such horrible parents never reproduce again.
If they had kids at this particular gathering, it's waaaaay too late.

OTOH, things are looking up: http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/05/14/hi...ing/index.html
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Old 05-15-2003, 06:09 AM   #27 (permalink)
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If they had kids at this particular gathering, it's waaaaay too late.
Partial-birth abortion is legal in the US, how much of a leap would it be to legalize post-birth abortion? :P If they screw up before they hit 18 years old, abort!
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Old 05-15-2003, 06:12 AM   #28 (permalink)
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OTOH, things are looking up: http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/05/14/hi...ing/index.html
Saw that in the papers today. I'm very pleased. Now it's back in the school board's ballpark to vote for expulsion.
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Old 05-15-2003, 07:45 AM   #29 (permalink)
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"The judge, however, said that under the terms of the suspension Holz would be allowed to take tests and exams, just not at the school. If she passes those she would be able to graduate. "

Now THAT sucks...no graduation...no prom...(sniffle, sniffle sob) AND you still have to take tests and exams...

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

I am glad they had the opportunity to file their motion, and equally glad that it was dispatched with quickly.

It does bring to mind an interesting question though (one that is raised by others before me)...Namely, how far do we extend the authority of the school to police the students? If this happend in another town?? Speeding tickets?? Underage drinking??
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Old 05-15-2003, 07:57 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally posted by kurty[B]
Not to jump to conclusions, but the parents are probably the ones that don't want to see their kids punished, and probably the ones who suggested to their daughter to sue, and use their family lawyer to get out of trouble.

I'm surprised harsher penalties were not delt. If the evidence is plain and clear I think expulsion would be the least of punishments they receive.
What has been done so far was done by the school. Criminal charges will probably follow in light of the publicity this has received. (It probably would not have without the publicity)
I know that in our state - those kegs of beer are tagged by state law - a keg registration form must be filled out by the purchaser and this information must be kept by the seller until the keg is returned. I don't know if Illinois has such a law but I am sure they have something similar - If this is the case, and they have any type of dram shop law to go with it, the purchaser of the kegs is in deep shit. He could be criminally liable for the physical injuries suffered by some of the girls.

I did think that it was interesting that these kids realized the legal jurisdiction of the park in which they had their party - they are probably in a lot less trouble in dealing with the "tree cops" than they would be in dealing with regular law enforcement.
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Old 05-15-2003, 08:07 AM   #31 (permalink)
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my HS.. Notre Dame High School, affliliated with another NDHS school in Louisiana, and affiliated with Notre Dame University run by the Brothers of the Holy Cross. They have a name and noteriety to protect. Thus they established rules that were clearly stated to EACH INCOMING STUDENT and what punishments would be for each infraction. They extended the school grounds to reach a 5 mile radius, which happened to encompass my girlfriends home. So had I gotten in trouble there, I could have gotten trouble also in school.

I didn't find it unreasonable as they took the time to make sure it was understood before I attended their school.
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Old 05-15-2003, 08:37 AM   #32 (permalink)
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well in light of the judges ruling maybe now the parents will show on be half of there injured children.



Quote:
Two of the injured said last week that they had no idea the seniors would go back on their promise of not physically harming them during their initiation into the senior class.

A videotape shot at the scene shows several students huddled together on the ground while others hit them, kick them and threw objects at them, including large plastic buckets. Witnesses also reported urine, feces and fish entrails being thrown, and other victims said they had been forced to eat mud.
Also why would the kids want an initiation into the senior class by students anyway?
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Old 05-15-2003, 08:47 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Originally posted by SecretMethod70
I take offense to blanket statements such as that. ... I don't make blanket statements about all people from an area..

Unfortunately, I don't trust that punishment to come from the courts considering their age and that they're probably all first time offenders (not to mention, let's face it, that they're
female). .
Then why do you make blanket statements like *...let's face it, they're female (so they won't be punished by the courts).*

Just wonderin'.
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Old 05-15-2003, 08:57 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Originally posted by d_p_w_k
[BNow THAT sucks...no graduation...no prom...(sniffle, sniffle sob) AND you still have to take tests and exams...Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.[/B]
Sounds like an excellent opportunity for those involved in this B.S. to learn a few of lifes harsher little lessons.
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Old 05-15-2003, 09:43 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Partial-birth abortion is legal in the US, how much of a leap would it be to legalize post-birth abortion? :P If they screw up before they hit 18 years old, abort!
Right out of South Park, that is.
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Old 05-15-2003, 10:43 AM   #36 (permalink)
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I see nothing wrong with psychological hazing and limited physical hazing, but what they did went WAY out of hand. Theres no reason why you should beat the shit out of someone for a powderpuff game.
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Old 05-15-2003, 12:13 PM   #37 (permalink)
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I'd agree that there's a good chance these lawsuits are just stupid, but I couldn't be certain without knowing the details of the case.

It's possible these two girls can prove some lack of involvement or mitigating circumstances, and are fighting a scattergun approach to punishment taken by the school after the matter got national attention.

Possible...but not likely. We don't know for sure because the press generally never goes into ANY relevant detail when writing about legal matters.
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Old 05-15-2003, 12:32 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Right out of South Park, that is.
Heh, is it? I haven't seen any South Park since the first season.
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Old 05-15-2003, 02:12 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Then why do you make blanket statements like *...let's face it, they're female (so they won't be punished by the courts).*

Just wonderin'.
Good question. However, I wasn't generalizing. Statistically, that's just the way things are.
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Old 05-16-2003, 05:25 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Originally posted by seretogis
Heh, is it? I haven't seen any South Park since the first season.
That's fixable. The last ep of the second season (IIRC) is a two-parter called "Cartman's Mom is a Dirty Slut", wherein she tries to get a 40th trimester abortion after Cartman starts trying to find out who his father is.

Hint: it's his mother he doesn't know.
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