Infinite_Loser

I wasn't sure if I should put this in general or sexuality, so here goes...

I have a friend named Steve who, with a few other people, has been my friend since our freshmen year is college (We're all now seniors). Anyway, sometime last year he started dating some girl (I don't remember her name. It starts with an "M", though). Everything was fine at first (As things usually are), but as time passed she turned into a manipulative and controlling bitch.

If we want to go out to eat somewhere, he has to get her approval.

He has to get her approval to hang out with me (None of his other friends, mind you).

He has to check in with her at least five times a day (I'm serious!).

Whenever I try to talk to Steve about anything concerning his fiance, she will chime in with a prompt "You can talk when you have a girlfriend!" line.

And, to top everything off, I didn't even get a wedding invation because "His fiancee doesn't want me there".

So basically, I don't know what I should. I'm really contemplating just letting it go and cutting my losses but, you know, it kinda' sucks to lose a friend of 3 years to such an evil, coniving bitch. Any suggestions?

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Willravel

Hook up with her sister, then don't invite her to your wedding. Seriously.


Tell your friend how you feel, minus the word "bitch", and see what he thinks. Most guys know when they're dating or married to a member of the Gestapo, but they feel it's worth it. My wife has a very powerful personality, and I happen to love it. She does not, however, make me check in with her and she doesn't decide who I am to be friends with.

*Nikki*

Unfortunately I don't think there is much you can do. There is a word for this condition that your friends suffers from.

'Pussywhipped'

paulskinback

Will, never cut your "losses" with a friend. My best friend, who is still my best friend, slept with a girl I was seeing for 6 months when we were 18. We had been friends for 5 years and he told me what happened.

He wanted me to hit him, beat him up, and I still gave him a lift home in my car. I didn't talk to him for a couple of weeks, then he rang me and the rest is history.

In my opinion its NEVER worth giving up a friend over a girl. We have had the best of times since, i'm now 26 and so much has happenend, girls been and gone, the best nights out etc

time will tell if he's a good friend, but only you can tell if he is that at this point in time.

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Ch'i

What happens if he doesn't check in, or get her approval?

She's probably jealous of your friendship.

Infinite_Loser

I wouldn't think so. Basically, Steve and I have our own little group of four or five people we hang out with. His fiancee only has a problem with me and me alone-- No one else. If someone else tells Steve that he's pussywhipped, she'll laught it off but if I say it, she'll get defensive and bitchy. It's like she has some personal vendetta against me and doesn't like me telling Steve what I think about her.

Edit: If he doesn't call her, she'll call him.

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Willravel

Um, I know. I never said to cut your losses. Or are you talking to IL? Is Infinite Loser also a will?

longbough

Questions that remain:

Is Steve your "best" friend? Or is he just an equal friend among your group of five.

If he's your best friend of the bunch does Steve even try to explain things like, why you weren't invited? It's hard to believe he wouldn't.

If he's not your best friend then you've got to respect his privacy and his decision to marry the girl. Their relationship is really none of your business - especially if they're married. Let it be known that you're still around and still consider him a friend. Go hang out with your other friends and let him know that he can call you any time. You can't expect to be liked by everybody you meet - so let it go.

Surely you MUST have SOME idea why she doesn't like you, right?
-Maybe, before they got engaged, you commented to either Steve or another friend that you thought she was a controlling "b*tch" or a "ballbuster". If that got back to her, can you blame her?
-Maybe she found out that you and Steve spent 2 memorable months in Thailand and she sees you as part of his "past."
-Maybe it's just because Steve, historically, looked to you for advice about everything and now she sees you as competing for his trust.

No story is ever simple.

thespian86

Ever consider your friend enjoys the structure of his relationship. Perhaps, also, it's a choice to spend infinite amounts of time with her. When I started dating my now fiancee I used it also as a way to seperate myself from the group of coworkers/peers that I felt very uncomfortable with. And also, perhaps "bitch" is too harsh a term. Have you spoken to her? Ever? Or are you jumping to conclusions, directing frustration at her, instead of actually trying to deal with the situation. Even speaking to your friend could create hostility. With her you have nothing to lose because you think she has some unreasonable vendetta against you. So just speak to her about hwo you feel, in a nice and open way, show her you care for your friend and thats what you are considered about.

Hopefully you respect your friend enough to realize that he isn't an idoit and can choose partners.

Perhaps I'm wrong.

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Sage

Well, there's either two things happening here...

A) Your personalities just don't mesh at all, and you're in the same boat as those guys from "Saving Silverman." It's unfortunate, but it does happen.

B) She really IS a scheming, manipulative, canniving whore. It's unfortunate, but it does happen.

The most unfortunate thing, however, is that you're getting the short end of the stick. There's nothing you can do that will make the situation any better. Take a deep breath, and back off for a while. Go hang out with your other friends. Keep calling your "pussywhipped" buddy from time to time just to keep the lines of communication open, but let him call the shots from now on. If he really, truly wants to be your friend, then he'll make the effort. However, you have to accept that perhaps his woman will win this "battle," in which case you'll have to find another buddy with less emotional baggage than your current one.

Whatever you do, DON'T BAD MOUTH HIS GIRL. I know she's a bitch, all your friends know she's a bitch, hell... HE probably knows she's a bitch, but he doesn't need to hear it from you. If you keep your mouth SHUT about it tho, and he eventually gets her legs unwrapped from around his head long enough to sit up and notice how much of a bitch she is, he'll need buddies to help drag him back from the dark side, and that's when you step in!

I totally am sorry, dude. This sucks... but hey, if she really is that horrible of a person, he'll wisen up... some day.

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ngdawg

Sage gives good sage
I feel sorry for your friend. Hopefully his spine will grow back before he walks down the aisle. No one has the right to tell someone they supposedly love who they should like or not like as friends. Spouse tried that. He lost.

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Smooth23

This thread makes me thankfull that my best friend married a girl that is now like my sister.

Uncle Pony

Ever seen the movie American Wedding? You're the Stiffler of the bunch. It isn't just her that doesn't want you there, it's him too.

Infinite_Loser

No, it's really not.

Yes, I have. But she dislikes me for reasons unknown. And when I say reasons unknown I do mean reasons unknown. I didn't do anything to her to cause her to not like me. In fact, I used to say nothing about Steve being a wuss or her being controlling (The rest of our friends did) and she NEVER had a problem with it until I said something about it.

That's what confuses me the most.

Also, I've found out that whatever I tell my friend about his fiancee ends up getting back to his fiancee so basically I lose no matter what I do. And if Steve had a problem with me, he'd tell me. He's never had a problem saying so before, so I don't see why it would be any differently now.

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Zar

Heh, women make everything different. I'd agree with those above who say let the friendship be on Steve's terms. Keep up some regular contact, but let him do some of the legwork if he wants to remain friends. You can't force someone to dump their SO, no matter how much of a good idea it might be.

It does suck to (potentially) lose a friend this way, but there's not much of an alternative other than to basically let it run its course. Hopefully he'll wise up, but if not, life's too short to dwell on it.

analog

No, "bitch" is not too harsh a term. She's a crazy manipulative bitch.

She obviously has something against you, but who the hell knows what it is- in reality, it could be that she simply sees you as the one friend who would stand up to her and tell her to fuck off with her bullshit. You know what I mean? Maybe she just sees you as the only one able to end her reign. Who wants to lose out on ultimate control like that? Definitely not her. He's practically a servant.

I agree with Sage that you shouldn't badmouth the girl- to a point. Now that it seems like a hopeless situation, you're about to lose your friend anyway. Go for broke and destroy that chick with your words.

If you don't say anything, she permanently shackles his testicles to her purse straps and you lose him anyway- if you say something and you're written off (which, face it- she made him not invite you to the fucking wedding, you're already almost totally written off), then you lose him just the same. Your only hope to save your friend, because he's your friend, is to shut that bitch down. Break her in half (with your words) and deprogram your buddy.

I fear for that man. He's heard the call of the siren, and he's steering his ship in her direction, not knowing he's about to lose his testes on impact against the jagged rocks, destroying his manhood and free will.

I <3 The Odyssey references.

ShaniFaye

Have you tried to have a one on one conversation with her? Telling her that your friendship with Steve is important and you'd REALLY like to understand what she has against you? Dave's best friend was a total asshole to me the first year and a half we were together. We finally sat down with each other when Dave asked him to be the best man at the wedding and hashed out a LOT of misunderstandings. Basically he was holding Dave's past relationship against ME....not saying thats the problem here, but it could be something simple that could be worked out if you asked.

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ScottKuma

I think that Steve needs to step up and defend your friendship with him. Otherwise, and unfortunately, he's made his choice.

If my wife had told me that one of my friends couldn't be at our wedding because she didn't want him there, she'd better have had a DAMNED good reason.

In my opinion, YOU going to M* and approaching the situation isn't going to work...in fact, it will bolster her opinion of you for being so brazen. You're in a lose-lose situation, unless you somehow get Steve to step up for you.

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ShaniFaye

why is it better to have someone step up FOR him? How do you know it wont work? My experience says it DOES. At least if he attempts it himself he can say he did try everything to make things better....dont know about any one else....but that would keep away the what if's that sometimes dont let me sleep at night.

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genuinegirly

funny. one of my buddies married a woman that about fits your description. We were a tight-nit group of friends since high school, and she kind of appeared out of nowhere the first year we were all in college. Most of us had been spread out all over the states, so when we came home for Christmas/Spring breaks we were pretty disturbed that he wasn't able to hang out with us because of her. The one chance to get the group together, etc. If he did chat on the phone or online with any of us, it was only when she wasn't around. He married her after a few months of being with her. None of us were invited to the wedding. A real heart-breaking time for the group.

2 years down the road, he found out that she had been cheating on him all along. He was completely and utterly destroyed emotionally. Divorced. Returned to the world with a vengance. He seems pretty happy now, in the military in Japan, doing his own thing.

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Jove

I agree with everyone's suggestions or comments so far. I would have a chat with the best friend's girlfriend while the best friend is in the room and say "Listen, I would like to know why you (points to the gf) dislike me? What did I do to you for you to be offended by my presence? " You don't want to add any rude remarks or demanding words, otherwise the entire conversation will fail from the start.

ratbastid

To you.

To you.

As far as you know.

You assume.

He's engaged now. He's chosing to pledge the remainder of his life to this woman. She's more important to him than you are now. He's not going to keep secrets from her. Deal with it.

I'm not saying she's right in disliking you. I'm just saying that there's a reason, and you don't know what it is. And now would be a great time for you to be the bigger person and get to the bottom of it with her.

JustJess

Maybe that's it. Everyone else was ribbing on her, fine fine fine, but you were the only one who didn't. Maybe she got her feelings all hurt and upset when you did start in with the same story - her only ally now turned on her. Maybe she didn't care what they thought, but does care what you think.

Just another possibility. But you'll never know until you ask, ask nicely, and ask seriously.

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thespian86

Shani, ratbastid, and I seem to be on the same page man. I know it's difficult stepping up, being the bigger person, and trying to wade through all the potential harrassment but if he's that important to you then it shouldn't be that difficult. But who's to say, it could be as simple as a misunderstanding.

If anything all I have seen is you needing somewhere to plug all of your frustration and whinning. And that you have yet to do anything about it; nothing that actually addresses the issue.

If thats all it is then why come for advice. You have it in you dude, just do it.

Ratbastid pretty much pointed out everything that I found wrong with your arguement. You are running on assumptions. And you know what happens when you Ass-ume. You make an ass out of you and me; or in this case, just you.

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EX: Whats new?
ME: I officially love coffee more then you now.
EX: uh...
ME: So, not much.

magictoy

Prediction: Talking to her doesn't accomplish a thing, except to make the situation more awkward. The situation is familiar--most commonly observed when the fiance has observed you with different dates. Since she wants to get married, she will do everything in her power to keep your friend away from you, if you seem to be playing the field. Or maybe she recognizes you as someone who won't put up with her bullshit.

In any case, your friend has no cajones. It's possible he will grow some after his divorce in a few years, but for now, it's useless to talk to him. Believe me, I've observed it many times.

Just be there for him when the relationship falls apart. And it will.

Infinite_Loser

I stopped caring, as I haven't talked to nor seen either Steve or his fiancee in a few days. I figure that it's not worth it.

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I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me.

ratbastid

Well, that's one solution. Actually, if you're really committed to not being the bigger person, that's pretty much the only solution. Congratulations: you lost your friend, but at least you're still right.

Jinn

I knew a girl like this. So I said screw it and chased her down the hall throwing blank CDs until one hit her. She was pissed, but she stopped hating me after I explained that she was being an asshole for me for absolutely no reason. She said she was just very "assertive" and that I was taking her personality too personally. And I was. She turned out to be a very nice girl, so long as you didn't take the constant grimace and sarcastic wit personally. She didn't intend it that way, so I stopped taking it that way.

I'm not saying that this is your case, but that maybe a forthright conversational confrontation is necessary.

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Sultana

Ayup. You have nothing to lose, buddy.

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