cuervo

Does anyone here have a girlfriend/wife/SO that carries concealed? What does she carry? Her choice or yours?

I've mentioned it to my GF and contemplated getting her a small revolver (see link at bottom).

She's not an anti-gun person but at this point hasn't joined me at the range more than a couple of times, either. She hasn't really expressed deep interest in a CCW but at the same time acknowledges that she does leave work late sometimes, etc...

Any thoughts?

S&W link:
http://firearms.smith-wesson.com/sto...sw_activeTab=1

MrTuffPaws

What ever she gets, make sure that she can handle it. The smaller and light the gun (of which women seem to like smaller and lighter) the bigger the recoil. If she can handle it, good for her. Make sure you do some range rentals and get her opinion on it before the buy.

itlain

I had two weapons recently, a Steyr 9MM and a taurus ultralight .38. My wife took both to the range and much preferred the 9mm. While being heavier and larger it provided a much better shooting experience for her with a lot less recoil. She also didn't like the fire shooting out of the revolver barrel. /shrug

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Fire

if she is going to carry, then the most important thing is that she knows how to properly shoot, and can do so proficiently under stress- any gun is only a tool, and if she is not enthused about learning it well then its a waste and potential danger to her- if she does not want a gun, considder a GOOD brand of pepper spray, or something else "to use and then get the hell away" do not bother with Tazers or stun battons
that said, my wife likes her .38 snub nose.......easy to handle, good grips, and reliable

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bacon

Ugh. A short .38 is a horrible weapon for a chick. Definatly have her shoot one before you buy it.

My personal suggestions for a carry weapon:

Sigarms p232 is a very smooth 380. Big enough to get the job done, small enough to conceal. A link

choskins

My wife has a Walther PPK.

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stonegrody

I agree. You don't want her to shoot herself by accident. Make sure she can handle the weapon and is comfortable with it. Pepper spray is good. If she does eventually get a gun, a small caliber Ruger would be good.

DDDDave

My wife has a Sig 9MM.

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Moonduck

"Ugh. A short .38 is a horrible weapon for a chick."

Really? Sounds like personal preference to me. A short revolver has limited uses insofar as combat is concerned, but it is more a case of "Some gun is better than no gun", and it certainly beats .25's, .22's, and .32's that many people tote in autos. My wife has a S&W M-640 Hammerless in stainless, with some fairly solid Pachmayr rubber hardwear on it. It is, for no obvious reason, a tack-driver.

I am a gun-guy, and wanted my wife to try out a number of different shooties before she decided on one. She went through autos, revolvers, and wierd toys like pepperboxes, and declared that she liked revolvers. Her reasoning was simple.

1) It was easier for her to handle as her small hands frequently did not work well with double-stack autos
2) It was simpler, and not being a gun-bunny like me, she didn't want to have to futz with the gun
3) It was more reliable
4) It needs less maintainence and can be safely stored loaded with no issues with springs.

Okay, the last two were things I added in, but the first two came from her without any imput from me. We lucked out in finding the M-640, as it was the personal weapon of a Police LT that we knew, and he'd been issued an auto. Got it at a good price, took it to the range, and was blown away. the substantial Pachmayr grips really helped to stabilize the little gun, and the fixed sites happened to print dead on at 25ft. My wife was happy, and I was, to be honest, a bit jealous.

My advice is to ignore anyone here that says "revolver's/auto's/whatever are junk". Your wife will never use it if she doesn't like it and trust it, so let her do as much of the choosing as your budget allows. And have her shoot it if at all possible.

2sheds

take her to a shooting range that offers gun rentals. that way she can try a few different sizes and calibers to see what "fits" her best. one in my area offers deals geared towards trying different guns - 5 guns with 10 rounds of ammo each for $30 or something similar.

my wife isn't comfortable with my ultra-lightweight revolover. she prefers one of the compact glock 9mm's (model 19 in this case).

RogueHunter65

From my own personal experience it is not a good idea for her to carry a gun for the sake of having one. I know people that carry one because they are business owners and carry a lot of cash on them. But by carring one you can endanger yourself. If someone goes to mug your girlfriend and she pulls out her gun but is not 100% comitted to shooting her attacker they will just grab the gun and shoot her with it. It is easy to say you are comitted but when it comes down to crunch time and she pulls it out will she be able to pull the trigger before her attacker can dissarm her. So I would make sure she feels comitted to shooting someone. They could begin to leave and pull their own on her too, the thing is you don't know the outcome but it could turn out bad without the proper mindset and training

Then again you do not have to agree with me. I just feel when using guns to solve trouble it in the end leads to more trouble.

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NewBonk

I definitely agree with you, using a firearm in self-defense creates a whole set of problems.

First, the police will treat you as a criminal. Most police officers "arrest the gun" regardless of the circumstances. If the legal entanglement with the state doesn't bankrupt you, the civil law suit that will be filed by the scumbag's family will.

You will be judged by people who weren't there and didn't have to make life-and-death decisions in seconds. You will have to prove that you followed the guidelines in your state that pertain to lethal force, such as did you have an opportunity to escape? Were you an unwilling participant?

Second, there will psychological ramifications. You have to deal with taking another person's life to preserve your own and being branded by anti-gun/anti-self protection people as a killer. This can lead to problems relating with your spouse, family and friends at a time you need them the most. If your employer hates guns or ends up in the newspaper as your employer, bring a box to clear out your desk, they won't be keeping you around long.

The question becomes, are you better off being killed by the attacker?

I agree that a person who carries a firearm should be 100% committed to their personal protection. The concept of a woman being shot with her own gun is usually a FUD tactic used by anti-self defense people though. There has not been a documented case of this type of attack so far. Does that mean it can't happen? Of course not, but it's not a common occurrence that should be used to dissuade a woman from carrying a firearm.

Moonduck

"The question becomes, are you better off being killed by the attacker?"

What the fuck?

Excuse my language, but I am in no way, shape, or form conversant with any individual that feels that they would be better off allowing someone to kill them rather than taking the chance of killing their attacker simply because they might have some tough emotional consequences. I am doubly certain that anyone willing to contemplate carrying a gun is even more unlikely to have such an insipid and self-defeating idea rummaging around in their head.

There is no equation wherein I would rather die than take the chance of killing some criminal bent on killing me or mine. That is not macho bravado either, that is simple survival of self talking. If you do not possess a similar will to survive, please do your species a favour and do not breed. That is not a trait that is conducive to the continued survival of the human race as a whole.

This is not intended as a flame, please do not take it as such, though I realize it sounds like it. Honestly, survival of the species is terribly important. Regardless of how you or anyone else feels about guns or self-defense, defense of self is hard-wired into any successful higher organism, and is generally trumped only by defense of offspring.

The "you" being used above is not intended to be aimed at the poster to whom I am responding, but is aimed at the hypothetical individual that is so pathetic as to willing to die rather than to fight to continue their own existence.

Dawson70

Blonddie carries a 9mm. She also prefers the .38 special. We have a .380 semi for pocket carry, but all other hand guns fit in our shoulder holsters.

And for the record, we don't always carry. We tend to carry when we feel the "need" to do so. Such as, horse back riding in the woods, camping, traveling and any other circumstances that may warrant a weapon, should we need it. I had a friend murdered in a wayside in Tennesee while traveling with his wife. For no reason, a man decided to carjack them but decided to kill my friend by having him drop to his knees and shooting him in the back of the head. Ever since then, if you see me at a wayside or traveling in my car, you better believe I'm packin'
It's a sad story all together, but I am sick of people treading on my rights to protect my family.
Well said Moonduck

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Moonduck

I've had a CCW for a coupla years now, and very rarely carry on my person. As he said, I carry when there is need, but don't want to get pinched for carrying when I do need to, thus the CCW. It makes perfect sense to carry while horseback riding, hiking, camping, etc. You are a long ways away from any sort of support, and generally have no way to contact that support quickly at any rate. As such, it's a damned good idea to carry your own support. Same can be said for the desolate reaches we call interstates. Some are heavily populated, others not, and state troopers are pretty rare in many spots.

I prefer to have a gun and not need it than need it and not have it. A bit hackneyed, sure, but still true. I am also happy and proud to report that I've never fired any of my weapons in anger or in fear, and have only drawn in fear twice (both because of feral dogs, once rural, once urban wasteland). It's a record I'm proud of and plan to maintain.


EDIT: I should add that while I've never fired my weapons in fear or anger, I have fired a gun owned by a relative in fear on a few occassions. I used to spend every summer a sa youth on my Grandfather's farm in the mountains of NC, and would frequently go horseback riding and hiking. On those trips, I've had the occassion to pull the trigger on a couple of poisonous snakes encountered in dangerous circumstances. This is not intended to make myself look good, merely as a bit of further info for total disclosure on my own firearm use.
Just in case though...

NewBonk

For the record, I posed the question but did not provide an answer. Personally, I prefer living and hope that my family and friends would support that decision (if they don't, I probably need new family & friends).

I was attempting to underscore the world of hurt a person who successfully defends themselves from a would-be-killer, at least in my state. Should a person who kills another in self-defense expect a cake walk? Of course not, but the life you saved will be nothing like the life you lived.

combatmedicjen

I live in an itty-bitty, teeny-tiny, small, small Michigan town where there is virtually NO violence whatsoever and, thus, no need to carry a concealed weapon. However, if I were to ever move back to a big city, I'd probably end up packing heat. Nobody fucks with me or my loved ones and gets away with it.

Moonduck

I know, NewBonk, which is why I went to such lengths to make clear that I wasn't flaming you.

As to your argument, I know people who have killed in self-defense. You are correct in thinking that life after such an incident is never the same as life before. It is still better than the alternative.

Strange Famous

Sorry, all I really know about guns if from rap songs... but in theory I guess being a woman shouldnt really be a determinate factor in what gun she would like... I guess she should just go to a shop and see which she would like, if they let you shoot them at targets before you buy you should try that for sure... and she can just get the one that she hits the best number of targets with or which one feels the best or whatever?

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Strange Famous

I think he meant, if someone is just going to rob you, a lot of times it better to just hand over what they want and nobody gets hurt, than to pull out a gun and then it turns into a situation where SOMEBODY is going to get killed.

I personally would rather have my phone stolen and my wallet than kill someone, but it depends on the situation... there can be situations where the best option might be to shoot for sure - an attempted sexual attack for example.

I dont think the comment was about a "kill or be killed" situation... but rather about how a gun can escalate a simple purse snatching into... well, a shooting.

But at the end of the day, this thread doesnt seem to be so much about whether this woman wants a gun or not, but rather what type. I think, definitely, one thing that must be said though... is dont carry a gun unless you are ultimately prepared to use it. And she would need to feel like she was, in order for it to be a good idea for her to have one I guess... but its a balance.... you know, if some 14 year old cocks his fists and says "give your cell phone now" and you blast him...

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Moonduck

...

The sort of person that is likely to carry concealed is not the sort of person to shoot someone for threatening to hit them. that's not how it works, and that is not how I read the post.

bacon

Those of us who have CCDW permits should be afraid of those of you who don't. Statically speaking, you folks without permits are far more likely to commit a gun crime.

BTW, my beef with short 38s is that most of them kick like a mule. I've seen folks (not just chicks) start to whince before the pull the trigger. That drops your accuracy quite a bit. I'd rather give my girl a gun that doens't have that distraction built in.

Moonduck

You are spot-on about the CCW holders. I can see where you're coming from on the kick with snubbies. I had a Ruger SP-101 in .357 magnum, and it straight beat the ever-lovin hell outta me. I don't mind recoil normally, and regularly fire full-on .44 mag using a Super Blackhawk. For some reason, that SP-101 just destroyed my hand to the point where I could not keep it. I sold it to a friend that had no plans to actually fire the gun much ata ll, and wanted it for his boat. I'l never buy another snubby .357 magnum.

A properly loaded .38 spec in a steel-framed gun should not be rough though. You go for light grain loads and avoid +P pressures, and you should be fine. A nice 110gr hollowpoint loaded to standard SAAMI pressures is really controllable, even for inexperienced shooters. Now I would probably not care for it in some of the new super-light pieces being put out by S&W and Taurus. But I don't think any load would be particularly comfortable in those things. There is a market and a use for them though, as the lighter the gun is, the easier it is to conceal. *shrug* Not my bag.

As I said earlier, try a S&W M-640 if you get the chance. I really wish I could get about 1" more barrel on my wifes, as I think it would balance it out better without reducing concealablity, but I doubt it'll ever happen.

Strange Famous

Maybe you could get her one of those little guns, that in James Bond movies the lady has tucked into the top of her stocking?

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"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
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Moonduck

It's actually not easy to find a quality gun like the ones you are thinking of, Strange Famous. The vast majority of little guns like that are low quality garbage, so-called Saturday Night Specials. Additionally, they are usually chambered in anemic rounds and have terrible accuracy.

That said, some gun is better than no gun, and presentation is what matters most of the time. I'd still go with a bit more shooty though.

NewBonk

I suspect this very fact causes the number of Defensive Gun Uses to be significantly under-reported.

A BG comes up and whips out a knife and demands your money. You un-holster your pistol and reply, "no thanks."

BG runs away (eliminating any justification for opening fire). Calling the police will result in:

1) The police will write down the description of the bad guy. This will more or less be useless to you.

2) It's also possible the police will become very interested in the fact you are carrying a firearm, even if you're doing so legally.

Some self-protection experts I've talked to have suggested that most of the time if you scare off a BG and there's no harm done, most simply carry on with life instead of dialing 911 (the emergency number in America). It's just not worth the hassle or possible legal entanglements.

To get back on topic (there is a topic, right? ), women are targeted because they are considered easier prey then men. A woman aiming the business end of a pistol at a BG significantly changes that dynamic.

NewBonk

For what it's worth, I went shooting with a early 20-something female recently who is very small in stature. She's probably 120 pounds when carrying 20 pounds of weights around

Anyway, she did very well with the Glock 17 (9mm) handgun. It's a bit large for concealed carry, but it has very little in the way of kick and 3-5 shots to center-mass will usually have enough effective stopping power (meth/pcp crazies obviously don't count).

I think the problem most women have in carrying a firearm around is the reduced set of concealability options. Women who dress up in skirts and blouses don't have a lot of options and I'm a big believer a firearm has to be attached to the body - purses don't count (ever lost/misplaced a purse before?).

Moonduck

The book "More Guns, Less Crime" was all about under-reported non-shooting uses of firearm to stop a crime in progress.

My wife has a purse with the holster built in. When she carries, she is meticulous about not letting the purse leave her body. I agree that the choices for carry for women are worse though. Concealment is pretty tough in general though, unless you are of a certain few bopytypes or have the luxury of cold weather.

ShaniFaye

*hopes its ok for a chick to post here

I've carried for 11 years...and I own several guns...9 mm and a .457 mag and a .45 the one I CHOOSE to carry is my .38 special...cant exactly explain why but it makes me feel the most comfortable pluse its easier to conceal

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Moonduck

Of course it's okay to post here!

ShaniFaye

well the thread title didnt sound inviting to women and the only people that had posted where guys (as far as I could tell) hehehe I just wanted to make sure

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Moonduck

Heck, I would say that you have more credibility on the topic than the rest of us insofar as subjective experience is concerned.

Big Cholla

My wife carries a S&W 640 w/ .38 spec. Hyda-shock for everyday and a Ruger SP-101 w/ .357 mag Hyda-shock for highway trips, both in appropriately sized concealment purses. The Ruger is ported to hold the muzzle flip down. She practices with weakly loaded .38 special rounds and then finishes each practice with a couple of cylinders of full loads. She also is familiar with my semi-auto duty S&W 4006 in .40 S&W. She has been known to drop my Kel-Tec P32 in a front pocket of her blue jeans to run over to the grocery store/gas station.

The person acquiring a firearm for self-defense must make a mental connection with that gun "believing that they can shoot that particular gun accurately and quickly". Find a shooting range that rents handguns and have her try out many types and calibers before purchase. Then get all the instructional classes you/she can afford.

Moonduck

Does the porting really help? I got rid of my SP-101 before I thought of getting it ported. It would be a shame to think that that hand-eating chunk of Ruger steel could've been properly tamed by a relatively simple machining operation.

amonkie

Wow, this is a good thread!

I haven't purchased a gun yet, but I was planning to take the CCW course in a little bit once I'm 21. I was looking at a glock 26, since my hands are extremely small and the grip looks to be a good one. The other models listed here, I'll keep in mind for when I actually get a chance to test some out. My biggest worry was recoil and size for ease of concealment, and it looks like those issues have been covered well. Thanks guys !

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DelayedReaction

I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum (6'9" dude who weighs 280 pounds), and I agree with the Glock 17 being a lot of fun to fire. When I get out of the People's Republic of Maryland, my CCW is most likely going to be a 1911, but that's a bit large for people of *ahem* smaller frames.

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Moonduck

/hug my Glock 19

The new single-stack Glocks are great for smaller hands. Course I don't think the difference is worth the loss of capacity in most cases, but I have big gorilla-cookie hands, so grip size doesn't bother me,

Big Cholla

Yes, the porting of a short barrel revolver helps as long as one is using maximum loads that are developing lots of pressure. If you have a handgun ported, be sure and allow the gunsmith to use only a "V" layout of two or four small ports. On my wife's 2 1/2 inch barrel SP-101 we had the ports put in at about 1/2" back from the muzzle. It made all the difference in the world. It might have cost a few foot-pounds of energy at the target, but if she does her job and puts at least two rounds in center of mass, it won't have made much difference in the final result. If the porting is top-dead-center of barrel the muzzle flame out the port sort of blinds the shooter for a split second in low light. That is not desirable. You want to maximumize the time you have to shoot and minimumize the time the bad guy has to shoot at you.

The other good thing to know about reducing apparent recoil from any firearm is to use a "lean forward" shooting position. With handguns, get about 60% of your weight on the ball of your feet; 40 % on your heels. Practice shooting in that position until it is totally subconsious to assume. By leaning forward, apparent recoil is greatly reduced.

I have instructed many "small framed people, both ladies and gentlemen" and have found that if they use the proper stance, grip, porting and aftermarket grip on the handgun, they have done very well with any caliber thru the .45acp. In fact, the Colt 1911 in Commander size works very well for smaller people. It is flat (easier to conceal), weighty enough to reduce recoil, very modifiable for custon touches and takes the best trigger job of all. The grip and trigger position is near perfect for smaller hands.

This was a "two hole" port job. It was by the "best" gunsmith in Las Vegas for $100 including a trigger job. That was in 1999.

Moonduck

Don't get me wrong, I am not shy of recoil. After learning to shoot with a .22 I immediately picked up my dad's Super Blackhawk, and never looked back. I just found the SP-101 to be unusually punishing. It bothered me even worse because I am normally immune to the effects of recoil.

As to stance, I use a Weaver style stance with isometric bracing out of long habit.

EDIT: I forgot to ask - how much did the porting cost?

Draconis

Girl I dated once always wore garters and midlength skirts. She would keep a Deringer in each stocking top. Hottest thing ever.

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