X_789_X

Before I go on with my story, I guess a bit of background information would be of help.

As most people do, I had a highschool sweetheart (Someone you dated throughout highschool) whom I THOUGHT I loved (How naive). Anyway, as it turned out, she cheated on me 5 different times with 4 different guys and each time-- Up until the last-- I continued to take her back (Once again, I was naive). Sure, her cheating hurt me but I was convinced that she simply made a mistake and really did love and care about me. It wasn't until the last time that I finally figured out that she didn't care about me at all and that I was simply fooling myself into believing that she was something that she wasn't (Something I wanted her to be). So, it ended for good and we went out seperate ways: I went off to college and she stayed at home (Last I heard, she was with a guy that mistreats her. Even though it sounds bad, I guess you could say she got what was coming to her).

Anyway, after that entire ordeal I decided on two things regarding cheating.

1.) "Once a cheater, always a cheater" and
2.) "Even once is one time too many".

Anyway, we should fast-foward to the second semester of my freshman year in college (January 2004) when I met "M" (I'll just call her that instead of using her full name). When I met her I hadn't dated anyone since I broke up with the ex because I hadn't felt the urge to be with anyone. She had recently come out of an abusive relationship and at first I was reluctant to pursue anything (For obvious reasons), but we really hit it off and would talk for hours on end. So, to make a long story short, we startd dating and it was the best thing to ever happen to me. Of course, as most relationships do, we had our problems and ended up taking a break from each other for 3 months. She tried to go back to her ex and I tried to go back to mine, but that didn't work out too well. In the end we ended up getting back together again.

Now, the real problems didn't start until November 2004 (This is when she cheated on me).

The first instance of her cheating went like such. A friend of hers gave her a coupon for 3 full-body massages. I was initially against this because, as any guy would tell you, there was NO way in hell I was going to allow another guy to give her a full-body massage. However, she told me that she was going to get them no matter what I said and that was final. As any guy knows, it's futile to argue with a woman so I simply agreed. Well, the night after her massage we were talking and I knew something was aloof but she assured me that there wasn't. In fact, she went on and on and on about me not trusting her and how that showed that I didn't respect her decisions enough to belive that she was capable of making the right ones. Basically, she made me feel so bad that I ended up apologizing to her.

Now, she just told me the truth 3 months ago (Yes, she lied about it for nearly 7 months). At first she stated that he came over, gave her a massage and, before she knew it, they were having sex. She also stated that the massage was just so relaxing that sex was the natural thing to come next (BS!) and that she didn't know what was happening and couldn't control her actions, as it felt as if she was having an "out-of-body" experience (She said it felt like being high). Of course, I didn't believe that and pressed further for the truth. So, she ended up confessing a bit more. Apparently he asked to give her a "body-slide" (That's where he rubbed oils on her body and slid over her without his clothes on) and she accepted. She stated that she didn't know what it was initially, but when I asked her why she let him continue after she knew what it was, she replied, and I quote, "Because it felt fucking good!" Well, needless to say I was furious but before I continue, I guess I should also explain the other incident.

Going back to November 2004, there was a 47-year old man name "P" who was infatuated with "M" (Remember that both "M" and I are in our 20's). He would constantly try to insert himself into our relationship and I was aware of this but I'm a nice guy so I let it slide (My mistake). Anyway, "M" and I were having a few problems (As any relationship does) and he took advantage of that situation, knowing fully what he was doing (He claims that he really didn't know, but I know that to be a blatant lie). Anyway, just 3 days after she cheated on me the first time, she did it again (Twice)and, what makes it intolerable, is the fact that she stated that she did NOT feel bad about it. One of those times she was drunk (And I know that she gets slutty when drunk) so I don't hold that against her (Even though I thought alcohol was an inhibitor and basically makes it easier for you to do what you already wanted) but the second time she was fully aware of what she was doing.

I guess this is a bit of an extraneous fact, but the reason she didn't tell me about any of this until 3 months ago because she ended up breaking up with me (On my birthday) and getting engaged to "P" who did not want her to speak to me anymore and she was happy to oblige. Therefore, it wasn't until 3 months ago that she decided to start speaking to me again and that's when she told me all of this.

Now, she states that she's had time to think about it and that she wants me back and that she knows that she made a mistake but wants to correct that and spend the rest of her life with me. In some ways, I believe her but in many others, I don't. You see, I dealt with the cheating thing before (From the ex) and it took me a while to get over that because I thought I loved her. However, I do love "M" and that's what makes it unforgiveable.

Part of me wants to forgive her and try to work on things but the other half wants to tell her to "Fuck off!" and, the thing is that I really don't know what to do. I miss her and sometimes feel that I can't live without her, but then again, I want nothing to do with her. I told her before we started dating how I felt about cheating, yet she did it anyway. I really don't believe that she made a "mistake" because she did it 3 times. And, part of that problem is that she still insists on being friends with "P" (Whom I really want to run over with a car).

I guess that was longer than what I initially intended. If you actually read the whole thing then I congratulate you. I'm not even sure that made much sense, either. But, I guess we'll find out.

I haven't really told anyone about this because I'm usually not too open about my feelings but I figure since this is a forum, that anonymity is a good as none of you actually know me. So if you have any input it would be greatly appreciated.

__________________
When a woman says she'll call you, she means when she gets home. When a man says he'll call you, he means sometime before he dies...

SiN

i ad mit I did *not* read it carefully, just a quick skim-through ...

but, what stands out from that is that she..... is probably not someone i'd want to be in a relationship with.

past 'victim' .. cheating, man 2x her age, 'slutty when drunk'.

how are these not very large red flags?

__________________

maleficent

I might agree to cheating once is a mistake, cheating more than once is not a mistake, cheating whilst drunk is not an excuse either.

It sounds like you need to really rethink the kind of women you are attracted to, or at least that you've been dating... Do you like the 'fixer-upper'types - damaged women who you think with love and whatever- youcan repairthem? Doesn't always work that way....

How's your level of self-respect... you will find that people will not respect you, unless you truly respect yourself, and is respecting yourself constantly taking back a woman who has so little respect for you - -or even herself.

__________________

simivin

Well, here's my thoughts, and I'll try to be brief.

I can empathize, although not quite as dramatically. My HS GF and I dated for over 19 months, broke up, I thought we loved each other and had a chance to get back together. We'd talk, say I love you, etc...then 5 months later, she tells me she cheated. I loved her; I wanted to live my life with her, so I forgave her, I wanted her back, she led me on (twice) before I was like: ok, that's enough. She's not a bad person -- in fact, she's a very good person that made mistakes, I think, but I shouldn't have let myself consider us getting back together at the time.

Your case is somewhat similar. Look what happened in high school; look at what this girl, M, has done. A violation of trust is a painful and terrible thing; it takes a long time to heal if, in fact, it ever does. It happens, and while it's conceivable that she does want to spend the rest of her life with you, I don't think you should put any stock whatsoever in it right now. I regret talking with my ex (who cheated on me) for so long after we broke up and after she finally told me; while we're still good friends, it would have been better and healthier for me to stop contact for a while until I (not her) got over it.

That's my recommendation to you. Tell this girl No. Tell her she has disappointed you and violated your trust. Tell her that if anything happens between the two of you, it will have to be far down the road, after she can prove -- at least to herself -- that she is mature enough to handle an honest and trustworthy relationship. Until then, however, I would say stop or reduce contact with her. It doesn't help you get over things that well usually, it reminds you of her and also all the pain, and it prevents you from moving on with your life and meeting other girls. Don't let her have control over you, your emotions, or your decisions. I did, and regret it.

My 2 cents. While your rules are not absolutes, they certainly hold true in most cases, I think. I'd say heed them. I feel for you, bud.

Sim

Bill O'Rights

Hey! Sometimes a fixer-upper can yield some pretty healthy returns, on a modest investment. Think about it for awhile.

Now...first of all, in regards to "M"...sayonara baby. Kind of the old get me once, shame on you...get me twice, shame on me. She sounds to me as though she has the potential to be a wonderful girl. She is not, however, living up to it. Is she worth it?
See...that right there is what tells me that she cares little for your feelings. If it's all about her...then it's not a relationship.
If it were me....I'd tell her to pound sand, before you get any more emotionally invested than you already are.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

Sage

If her cheating really bothers you (and you say it does) even if you get together, and even if she NEVER cheats on you again (which I'd say she would- she sounds like a TOTAL flake) you will have to go through, every day, wondering if she will. Every single day when you look at her, or kiss her, or have sex with her you will be wondering if she's thinking about someone else, or if she thinks someone else is better than you are. That's a lot of strain to put on a relationship, doubly so since you're so young. You say you love this girl- if you really love her, you can let her go knowing that if she really is the one you want to be with, you two will be together no matter what. She sounds like she's young and wants attention and has absloutely no idea what the term "monogamous" means. Go have some fun, go find a girl who will respect you (because M sure as hell isn't respecting you), and enjoy being young. Life is too short to be in a less-than-perfect relationship.

__________________

JustJess

Cut it off. Really. She's not ready. That's okay, that doesn't make her a horrible person... but it does make her untrustworthy, and you need that in a relationship.

To be fair, if she was abused in a previous relationship... I'd put good money on this partially being about needing to be the one in power, and not having a good education on how a relationship is supposed to work. That doesn't change the fact that you should run-don't-walk-away at least until she has stabilized herself.

__________________
My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

Mr Honest

I'd never trust her again and if I don't trust someone I'm not having a relationship with them.

You need a relationship where you aren't worried who your girlfriend is screwing. You worry when they aren't back because they might be in non sexual trouble

polite:
I'd tell them 'I believe in trust and loyalty in a relationship and since I don't trust you and you aren't loyal there's no point in us being together.'

not so polite
'skanky cheater and promiscuous tramp you are I suggest you start acting in porn movies since you have the morality of a hooker.'

__________________
Human beings : who could ever claim to like them all?

c172g

Run, as fast as you can. Pack your bags & get gone. If you want to ever be happy, it will NEVER be with "M". Guaranteed. I ran that gambit once in my life, and every day you will kick yourself in the ass for taking her back. Say goodbye & find someone else...

Siege

Stick with your "Even once is one time too many" motto. While I personally might allow once as an "accident" more than once is really pushing it.

And what Mal said about alcohol not being an excuse is totally true. If someone knows that they become totally unrestrained when they're drunk, maybe they shouldn't be drinking so much.

__________________
"Your name's Geek? Do you know the origin of the term? A geek is someone who bites the heads off chickens at a circus. I would never let you suck my dick with a name like Geek"

--Kevin Smith

This part just makes my posts easier to find

FngKestrel

Don't do it. She doesn't respect you.

Look at the scenario. She insists on being friends with P while she's with you, but at P's bequest months ago, she's willing to cut off all contact with you?

spartan19

You need to know when enough is enough...

One time- Can be forgiven...
Twice- Nope

Or even if you give her two... when is it too much? Three? Four times?

After a first mistake (Hey, I've made that mistake once. I'll be damned if I ever do it again.) it's not a mistake anymore, it's intentional and you shouldn't lie down and take it or put yourself through that. Lose the cheater, that's the only way to deal with them.

ruggerp11

I agree with spartan19

Once you can take as a mistake made and lesson learned. Twice or more and she just doesn't care about you at all.

__________________
Patriotism means being loyal to your country all the time and to its government when it deserves it.
--Mark Twain
Do What makes you happy
--Me
BUT!
"Happiness is the absence of the striving for happiness" - Chuang-Tzu

Silvy

I agree with the sentiments above.

Most of all, listen to yourself. Hold on to what you've learned with your HS girl.
You know 'M' has (at the very least) shaky ideas about how it is to be with someone, and your past experience and your gut feeling tell you that this is not going to change.

I'm sorry but I feel you've lost 'M', it was not your fault but it happened. Do not linger in a situation which you can never be fully comfortable in.

__________________
"Do not kill. Do not rape. Do not steal. These are principles which every man of every faith can embrace. "
- Murphy MacManus (Boondock Saints)

Sugarmouse

i think you shouild keep her as a friend and gainher respect back by not doing what she wants.

there are people who cheat, and there are cheats..i thnk.this woman is a cheat..she has doen it many times.i would treat her as someone to be sympathetic towards but i dont think gettng ina relationship with her is a good idea ...i think she isnt right for u as was said before she has little or no respect for u, or herself by the sounds of it.

__________________
Sugarmouse=Festered

Seeker

I wouldn't say that she doesn't respect you... I would say that her yearning for something else to make her feel good is stronger. Only you can decide if what she gives to you is worth her lack of commitment.

__________________
To those who wander but who are not lost...

~ Knowledge is not something you acquire, it is something you open yourself to.

Martian

I don't usually post if I don't have something original to say, but I'm making an exception here because I think it needs to be emphasized.

Don't look back. There's nothing but trouble there. The idea that there's only one person is romantic, but it's also a load of horse dung. You can find someone else to love who'll tread you better than that.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

jay-g

Miss Ina

She obviously has no respect for you whatsoever. I hope you can get over her and find a girl who is as concerned about your feelings as you are about hers.

__________________
The word "time" split its husk; poured its riches over him; and from his lips fell like shells, like shavings from a plane, without his making them, hard, white, imperishable words, and flew to attach themselves to their places in an ode to Time; an immortal ode to Time.
—Virginia Woolf, Mrs Dalloway

analog

"How to deal with a cheater" - Don't, just walk away.

ophelia783

There are generally two reasons why someone cheats.

One is because they're feeling isolated/neglected, and are looking for some form of attention/love/comfort/companionship/etc. The other is because they are either incapable of being in a monogamous relationship, or they're just a bitch/ass.

If it's the first, and you're willing to work out the issues, then good luck to you, and best wishes. If it's the second, they're not worth your time, and you shouldn't bother.

__________________
~*~* He with a sharp tongue slits his own throat *~*~

analog

For the second reason, I agree with your estimation of "not worth your time". As for the first, this generally this sounds like a nice idea except for two reasons... 1. If they were feeling neglected/isolated, I don't want to be in a relationship with such poor communication that one feels the need to cheat rather than have a talk, several talks, or just leave, because of feeling neglected.
2. If it was TRULY such a horrible accident, if it was TRULY because they were in such a dire state of unhappiness that they couldn't find the way to talk it out, and had a moment of weakness and cheated ONCE, but they really, TRULY cared and were TRULY sorry, they would be so sorry that they would bawl their eyes out. They would collapse and cry like everyone they knew had died at once. Only in this extreme circumstance would I entertain the notion of taking a girl back. The term, "everyone makes mistakes" applies to dropping a cake, breaking a dish or glass, or leaving the toilet seat up- having sex with someone who is not your SO when you're not supposed to is NOT a mistake.

And, in my opinion, If you're married, there's no excuse at all, ever, regardless.

Chuckles

FUCK THAT SHIT BROTHA move on! Actually, make her feel horrible and humiliate her publicly somehow, then move the fuck on. Basically, post THAT story, those exact same words in that post you made, and hand it out to people! Im also aperson who is big on revenge, so maybe dont listen to me. It's what I'd do.

Meier_Link

Make her think you are willing to be with her, lovey dovey and all that stuff, and then you need to consider the situation and do the most fucked up thing you can possibly do to her without getting yourself in legal trouble.

Then, no matter what happens, you can look back and say "she got what she deserved."

She hurt you, that's fine, but it's up to you to make sure she hurts one hundred times worse.

Mugzy6

Even once is too much. As you said, once a cheater, always a cheater. This statement I've found to be completely true. You have to know when enough is enough and having your SO cheat on you is enough for you to get out of that relationship. It's a matter of self-respect. You're going to want to end up with someone you can trust because I don't think you can love someone that you can't trust has basic morals.

fightnight

I'm in with the "once a cheater, always a cheater" crowd as well. I have had it happen in the past, and at this point in life, i'm not about to waste time on someone who is going disrespect me. I say find one who can be faithful.

ktspktsp

Dude, for your own sake, walk (run?) away. The more you deal with her, the more you'll get hurt. You don't need to bring all that pain in your life.

As SiN said, there are way too many red flags.