tritium

Not really sure where post about this, but I need to vent a little.

I'm one of those guys that will hold a door for a lady and let her go first in line, etc. I don't mind getting a chair or acting the gentleman in any way, so don't get me wrong.

My major hang up is the chicks that like to either 1) jump through the door ahead of me even when I'm not actually opening the door for her (eg., I'm carrying something heavy, etc.) or 2) walk through the door like I'm doing some sort of holy-required duty without even the slightest acknowledgement to me (eg., a "thank you" or a smile or ANYTHING!). Am I wrong to really want to start dropping doors on these women?

That's just the door thing though ... any other situation and its like the women around me EXPECT IT! Sure sure ... I'm the man and society says that I'm supposed to help you out. I don't mind. I do mind when its like what I'm doing is an obligation that my Y-chromosome causes.

tritium

Oh yeah. Why is it that the chicks that jump through the door ahead of me when I'm not holding it for them are always travelling in packs? I swear, I was carrying a 65lbs computer this afternoon and 5 women went through the door ahead of me! They weren't in a hurry either. They got through the door and stood in the lobby gossiping. They were there 20minutes later when I came back through -- no acknowledgement to me either time.

QuasiMojo

I'm glad you got that off your chest.

That 65 pounds of computer must've been heavy.

on your chest.

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Halx

My girl was told to expect a man to open the door for her and all that pampering. I told her straight up that if she can't open her own door, she's gonna have some problems getting around. It seriously does not pay to be chivalrous these days. I'm a nice guy... a SUPER nice guy... but I also don't dink around women like a human doormat. I'll gladly open the door if I happen to reach it before the girl, and maybe if she's wearing something elegant/sexy, but normally if a girl stops in front of a door, I'll probably raise my eyebrow at her.

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tritium

I haven't ever had a woman stop in front of a door -- not sure what I'd do in that situation. Raising an eyebrow certainly would be a start, however. I figure, she's intelligent and strong enough to make it "in a man's world" then she should be able to open the bloody door.

AND if I'm carrying something that looks bulky or awkward, then she should open the door FOR ME! Maybe I'm not being fair ...

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Sleepyjack

I hold the door open for anyone, male, female, whoever. However i must admit that there is a mathematical relationship in the time i hold the door open (if someone is quite a bit behind me) and how good looking they are. Hmmm not really but i heard that as a joke once.

I don't really get too bothered if i get thanked or not, people should try to help people no matter what gender, race and so on.

tritium

I hold the door for men too, but at least I get a nod about 95% of the time from men. But, it's not just the doors ...

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ARTelevision

I do the whole bit.
I even kiss their hands when I meet them.
I think women are the best thing on this earth.
I want them to know I feel that way about them.

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passthru

I'm the kind of person that if that happened to me (the group of girls that stood in your way after they went through the door) I'd say excuse me and start walking. If one of them didn't move out of my way and complained about being hit, I'd just apologize but not really care. I'm not saying I would try to hit em in the elbow with my computer, but if they stood there and ignored me, well, too bad for them.
If one female walks through without saying anything or giving a smile, maybe she was preoccupied with something. But 5 of them? Unappreciative bitches that don't help themselves out because they can. Fuck them.

yournamehere

Courtesy <i>should</i> work both ways.
I will always give up a seat or hold a door for a lady - that's just the way I was brought up.
When a lady thanks me for it, she gets a polite "You're welcome." in response.
If she <i>doesn't</i> thank me, she gets an even louder "You're welcome."
But I'll still do it again next time. It's just the right thing to do, IMHO.

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kel

That's where I'm at. I know better than to care about recognition for I what I do.

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guthmund

Most times I get a nice "thanks" or a nice smile. I do it because it's good manners and I do it for both men and women.

On the other hand, I have run into the "uppity-ass" a couple of times.

I was standing outside waiting for a ride when this jerk-ass comes over in his business suit holding a briefcase and yakking on a cell phone. He gave me a dirty look like he expected me to open the door for him. I gave him a level stare and told him it would probably be easier to open the door if he used his briefcase to hold his phone instead of his hand.

I'm all for common courtesy, but don't expect it or you'll be sorely disappointed.

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SabrinaFair

I love when guys are chivalrous, but I definetly don't expect it. I figure it's an nice bonus, but I'm a big girl, I can open my own damn door. If a guy opens my car door, I make a point to reach other and at least unlock his door, if not open it (which can be kind of a stretch, but I think it's courteous)

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present_future

Like most of you guys, I always try to hold the door open for the ladies, and open car doors too, but there are situations when it just doesn't make sense to do this. I know my girl appreciates it and everything, but there comes a time when I think that maybe she should be doing the same kind of stuff for me.

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sailor

That pretty much says it. I'll always hold doors open for women--like you, it was the way I was brought up. It is nice to be thanked for it, and if they expect me to do it (which I actually havent ever run into, I guess most girls are so used to the complete and total flaming, burning death of chivalry), then I would probably be a little angry. I don't think it would make me less likely to hold the door for the next girl to come around, but I would definitely be a little incensed.

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rainheart

I'm with Halx's mindset about this. Except being a super nice guy, I'm not exactly virtuous.

What I would do in the situation with the 5 girls ignoring you is politely, but in an audible and clear tone, kindly say "hey do you mind holding the door open for me for a sec this computer is a little heavy", and when they look at me give them a sincere smile. And if they still didn't do anything I'd just throw some derogatory comment at them later or whatever. For being assholes. You know.

But anyways instead of getting annoyed just assert yourself. Ask them to hold the door open. Make things work for you. Better than getting annoyed.

Sledge

I am a sexually enlightened 21st century male who also has a tendency to be friendly to strangers. So to treat people of all genders without bias, I'm nice to everyone.

Well, everyone I don't know.

tritium

Just needed to vent anonymously on the 'net. I work tech support and actually was carrying that computer today and five sorority girls jumped through a door I had just struggled to open. Really pissed me off when they darted through the next door into the lobby and didn't bother to either hold the door or acknowledge me. Just a little PO'd -- didn't mean to generalize all females on the basis of 5-sorority bitches.

Knowing myself, I'll continue to hold doors for both men and women on a regular basis -- even without acknowledgement. I'm not as mad now as I was earlier so things are looking a little brighter.

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Slims

I try to be nice and polite without being a pushover. I generally will hold a door for someone, but then again, I will also hold a door for a guy friend or a stranger in the hallway. I won't let a whole line of people walk in though. But people around here generally accept such gestures gratefully.

I tried to hold a door for a stranger when I was in NYC (I don't look scary or anything, and it was entirely appropriate), and she stopped dead in her tracks, looked at me like I was insane, took three steps to the left, and went in another door.

I guess to each their own, and people are used to different customs in different places.

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analog

I'm a really nice guy to all people, but obviously most especially to girls I find attractive, it's the way we work. I might just go the extra mile for them.

Courtesy should work for all- especially if girls wanna bitch about not being treated equally.

With my girl, I always try to do things when I can, but if we're walking to the car, i am not going to open the door EVERY time. I do fairly often though, and definitely if she's holding something.

wry1

Do I hold open doors for women? Yes. But I also hold 'em open for my friends (male or female) because it's a nice gesture which people don't necessarily expect from their pals.

Do I believe that women are supposed to be catered-to by men? Nope. Not a whit. Mom was a feminist, and taught her kids that doing things like opening doors and holding chairs is polite social behavior, but not mandatory. "Women's lib is a double-edged sword," she always told us. "You can't have it both ways....although some women will try!"

So I will hold a door if it's someone special to me or a friend. But for a stranger (aside from a first-date, that is)? Not necessarily. It'll depend on my mood.

Averett

When I was visiting my friend in Canada, he held open every door for me, opened the car door, lugged my suitcase around. All that stuff. It was unexpected and nice. And I thanked him every time.

I hold doors open for people. I don't expect anyone to do any of that for me, but its nice when it does happen, and I always say thanks.

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Dano069

I'm a nice guy too. I hold the door and smile and watch their butts as they walk through.

Thank you. No, THANK YOU!

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cdwonderful

all I can say, is Amen, brother. I have suddenly found a new hero.
Way to go, Art!

skysooner

My avatar kind of says how I feel. I worship at the altar of women (especially my wife). There is almost nothing I don't like about them. I'm still chivalrous in that I will hold a door open, but I draw the line at opening car doors, etc. for them.

motdakasha

there is a difference between chivalry and courtesy. the underlying message behind chivalry is that a woman is supposed to be weak and helpless; it is the man's duty to protect a woman because she is a frail creature. this is why chivalry annoys me. men think it is good and courteous to be chivalrous, but i disagree. i can open the door on my own if my hands are free. i'm not weak. i'm not frail. i can lift heavy objects, too. i am a perfectly capable woman and chivalrous actions are meant to show the opposite. you can be courteous and good without being chivalrous. courtesy is when you aid someone when it's beneficial toward them, not because you think they are weak and therefore need to be helped at all times. (a definition from m-w: consideration, cooperation, and generosity in providing [as a gift or privilege])

if i'm closer to the door, let me hold it open for you. if you're lifting a heavy object, don't tell me, "that's okay, you're a girl," or "don't worry, let the men get it." it's not just men who believe in chivalry that piss me off, women who enable themselves into being weaker piss me off, too. "oh, this is heavy (reality: it's only 2 lbs.) can i get a strong man to lift this for me?" if you can do it, do it. if i'm perfectly capable of doing something that i'm obviously intent on doing, don't tell me, "this is a man's job." chivalry encourages sexism. it pisses me off when men will lunge forward half a mile to beat me to a door just so they can hold it open for five minutes while i take my time getting there. in this type of situation, typically, i'll open the second door if there is one just to avoid *allowing* him to perform his chivalrous act. yes, i know i'm a bitch, but i often take pride in that fact. completely ridiculous and exaggerated acts of "chivalry" piss me off to no end. if it's convenient for you to open a door, then go ahead, thanks. i thank people if it's an act of kindness. if it's completely unnecessary and uncalled for, then you're wasting my time and yours. grow up.

here is one link sort of related to the point i'm trying to make:
http://www.pinn.net/~sunshine/book-sum/berkin.html
it's about chivalry in the South (U.S.) and how it created a subservient type of role for women.
(sorry if this was a little bit heated, i just hate it when people tell me "i can't" with words or actions.)

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tritium

motdaksha, well spoken. Where are you when I'm carrying PCs in and out of buildings? I think the modern woman that is strong enough to handle herself in the business world, can just as easily open a door on her own. Although, I can say, that I've never had a woman open a door for me that wasn't directly related to me -- Maybe that's a factor of living in the deep south like your article states. These women here in Georgia, or at least in Macon, seem to expect such things from men.

Anyway, three cheers for you.

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tritium

Triple digit post total! woohoo!

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Lunchbox7

Actually Chivalry isnt about treating woman as weak it is all about trying to "win" her. The code of chivalry was founded in the middle ages in response to fin amour. Fin amour is the concept of romantic love. Before this marraige was a financial contract. During this period romantic love started becoming the basis for selecting a marraige partner. As a consequence men had to prove their love. The code which defined such acts is the code of chivalry. Throughout human history woman have decided when sex is initiated. Men pursue consistently but sex will usually occur only when the woman has changed her answer from "no" to "yes". This is an incredible amount of poweer for woman to have. Men have learnt that they have to coerce/seduce/prove their love in order to get that answer of "yes". How do they do this? They do nice things, such as opening doors, for someone they care about. It is not men treating you as if your weak but then treating you as a very special woman. And you get angry at them for it? Perhaps you could show a little empathy next time some guy does something nice for you and accept it graciously?

Angel

There is an extensive thread on this topic in members that I started some time ago and if I did it right, the link below will take you there. Many interesting opinions on this there.

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...threadid=30074

I do enjoy my door being held. But I NEVER, EVER expect it. It is all about common courtesy. I hold it for others, male, female, it makes no difference. I think people who EXPECT it and who are all "uptown" and think they are above actually getting their own door, or Lord forbid actually holding it for others, should be sentenced to a big reality check and have to spend a month as a door person at the busiest hotel in the world. Grrrr....

And sorry if the link doesn't work

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fallenangel

I'm at a point now where most males i've known have made a point of not being chivalrous because they think that the 'modern woman' or whatever is on her feminist empowerment trip where she wants to be treated as an equal and THAT is the reason why they're not gentlemen.... It's a shame though, i don't expect it, but it's nice once in a while.

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dumbnutofak

haha this reminds me of the other day me and my buddy were going to pick up a cd we won over the radio. So we get to the radio staion place, and he grabs the door and opens....then holds it and waits for me to go in... I was like awwww u so sweet lemme get this one... haha good stuff I tell you.

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animosity

im just a nice guy... i will go outta my way to open a door for anyone, man or woman... i think it is just a nice thing to do. however if a girl stands there and waits... she will be standing there all day cause im using the other door.

when im on a date, i always seat them and order for them(after we discuss what we are having of course). it is just how i was raised. and if a woman wants to get all feminist on me thats fine.. but she will be getting the check.

Rodney

I hold the door open for everybody. Used to work in high-tech, and the culture was for everybody to hold the door for everybody else -- probably started because a lot of the doors are security doors, and by holding the door open you save the next guy having to swipe his or her card key to unlock it. Security hates that, but everybody does it. And it carries over to all other doors.

I can't see anybody, man or women, not getting the door for somebody carrying a heavy object. The soririty girls that tritium is writing about are self-centered and expect things to be done for them without them doing things in return. They'll figure it out eventually, especially in a few years when they realize (to be blunt) that they can't count on being pretty to get by.

I've seen guys do the same, but they get judged more harshly and publicly, for reasons that I won't go into because that's a whole 'nother thread. I was once in Barstow, CA, (a nasty desert town full of Marines), and I opened a door for an old women who turned to me in shock, because (she said) young men don't hold doors for anybody in Barstow. I guess those young Marines haven't learned yet.

jRuntlets

I'm a girl, and I open doors for people (women and men). I've gotten less 'thanks' responces or smiles from women, and it makes me want to kick them. I'm a woman too, but I'm holding the damn door for you!

I've dated guys that always liked to hold doors for me, but it's something I'm not used to. Growing up with 3 brothers it's whoever can get through the door first. Since I was the smallest I ran ahead and squeezed in otherwise I'd get squished between them. The first time a guy held a chair out for me at a restruant I had to stop and say "Are you holding that for me? Or are you looking around before you sit down?" To say the least yea, it's nice when guys hold doors open, pull out chairs ect. But I'm a big girl, and I'm not afraid to break a nail.

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isis

I almost always open doors for people. Honestly, I don't think I've ever taken note of someone not saying thank you, or smiling. I guess I don't really THINK about opening doors, I just do it as a force of habit. We all gotta get through them somehow, right?

However, if someone opens the door for me, I always give them a thank you as a courtesy. Although, if someone spys me over 100m away and holds the door for me the whole time, I do get kind of creeped out and am less gracious ;D

Yakk

I was once quite anti chivalry.

"One should treat everyone as equals."

I was wrong.

Chivalry, properly used, isn't all that important. It is a minor extension of politeness, unequally applied between men and women.

It doesn't nessecarily mean being a doormat.

What changed my mind is I actually realized that men and women aren't equal. Men are physically stronger. It is a minor and unimportant difference: in this day and age, who really cares how much you can lift?

Take a man and a woman. Have them work to improve their physical strength. Due to biology, the man will end up stronger, and won't have to put as much effort into it to get to that point.

It isn't fair.

Chivalry, done properly, is a minor and unimportant deference given to females. Biology gives men a minor and unimportant advantage to men in the form of more physical strength.

Even steven.

Less cerebrally, Chivalry means I can do something minor for someone without it being awkward or against social mores. And doing things for people makes me feel all fuzzy and happy-happy. So, every excuse I can find is a good thing. =)

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Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

Homey_V

Thats exactly how I feel, and exactly what I try to do.

I DONT agree with you at all on this one. It was stated earlier that chivalry was not created because of the belief of women being inherently weaker (Although the idea was dominant at the time). Chivalry IS courtesy towards women without question. I can understand that you dont want to be treated as "a weak little girl", and I respect that. However, when someone holds a door for you or attempts to carry something for you, its not neccesarily because they think you're weaker. I personally will always carry my girlfriends luggage or anything heavy, not because I think she's weak (I know perfectly well that she can carry those things) but because I think its respectful. She doesnt take it for granted however, and always holds the door if she gets there first etc..

My thoughts may have gotten a little garbled, so I'l sum up.

Chivalry doest not view women as weaker
Chivalry is a sign of respect towards women
Im not sexist
I dont expect my courtesy towards women to go un-appreciated

That is all

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doncalypso

If I were you I'd slam the door in these women's faces if I ever met with them again.

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