YellowBird

I'm female and I've been with both girls and guys on a number of different occasions (including threesomes). i enjoy both but I still can't get my head around the idea.

Also, if I am bi is it ok to date girls?, or just make out from time to time? My friends give me the impression that it's fine to mess around with girls but it's much less ok to date them. what do you think?

Baraka_Guru

It sounds like you aren't 100% certain of your sexuality.

I say it's perfectly fine to date girls. This will help you figure out if you enjoy it enough to keep doing it. Time will tell whether you prefer to date girls or guys.

Just be sure to be up front with anyone you date regarding your sexuality; that way there'll be no surprises if it doesn't work out.

The bottom line is to be honest with yourself and give yourself the chance to learn about who you are.

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Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
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MSD

Your friends aren't very open-minded and supportive. If you want a sexual or romantic relationship with someone you're attracted to, go for it.

Xerxys

Date girls, 'nuff said!!!

World's King

This thread needs more pictures.



Oh yeah... and it's okay to date girls. My girlfriend was actually looking for a girl to date when she met me.

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ratbastid

Love is love.

World's King

You would know...

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Glory's Sun

why worry about the labels? just do what feels right to you and let others worry about the labels.

Zeraph

Who cares what you officially "are" just go with what feels natural from situation to situation. Don't worry about labels and if your friends have a problem, tell em to GTFO. Some people can be legitimately gay for part of their life and then straight in another part. Doesn't automatically make you confused.

genuinegirly

(Ratbastid is in a healthy poly relationship - that's why World's King said he would know that love is love.)

It's ok to date women.
It's ok to date men.
It's ok to date as many of whatever gender you want at any one time.

Just be honest with those you're dating. That's what really matters.

Your friends sound like they're not very skilled at giving relationship advice to people with an alternative take on sexuality. You'll find a significant support group here as you sort through your emotions. I notice this is your first post -welcome to the board.

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FuglyStick

This is a subject I've been meaning to discuss.

It seems bisexuality has become the new fad among kids that want to be viewed as "edgy" or "alternative". I don't think the majority of those kids on mySpace claiming to be bisexual are bisexual at all.

I have no problem with homosexuality being a result of biology and brain chemistry. There is a train of thought in the scientific community that sexual orientation is wired according to the hormonal soup we swim in while still in the womb. By that reasoning, it's possible for people to be biologically bisexual as well.

Which brings up the difference between sexual orientation and sexual behavior. Fundamentalists have forever been preaching that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice that can be cured; the gay community has been countering that homosexuality is not a choice, but a biological fact, for just as long. Fundamentalists say that if you stop practicing homosexual behavior you stop being homosexual; the gay community says you can live your whole life in denial without ever engaging in homosexual behavior and still be a homosexual.

And therein lies the rub. Because you engage in homosexual or bisexual behavior, are you really homosexual or bisexual? I would posit that in most cases you are not. We live in a day when sexual freedom is accepted more openly than it has been for decades; consequently, sexual experimentation is more and more prevalent. (I will be accused of being a prude, but sex for many people today is little more than the mutual masturbation of each other's genitals.) People may follow up on sexual attraction with the same gender, but that doesn't make them bisexual or homosexual, just as the homosexual who only engages in heterosexual sex isn't heterosexual.

The difference between sexual orientation and sexual behavior shouldn't make any difference--consenting adults should be able to engage in any sexual behavior they choose--but it does in today's society, as homosexuals strive to be treated as equals with heterosexuals. I've talked to some homosexuals who are disgusted with the homosexuality and bisexuality professed by people who will later attribute their behavior to a "phase" they were going through. They are angry because the rights and equality that they are seeking are being undermined by people who are trivializing sex and sexuality, and reinforcing the misguided notion that sexual orientation is a matter of choice. It would be like a white person who decided to be black for a while, or vice versa. Sexual behavior can be changed; sexual orientation, like skin color, cannot.

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Xerxys

Fugly, very well written. Unfortunately, I didn't understand a word. I only read the proper use and application of the accepted labels.

Your fellow friends can be as angry as they want. As long as I am not hurting anyone, I will do whatever I want. I don't have any desire to be labelled whatever. It's trivial and not even in the least bit identifying of anything important. Everyone is freakin' with someone else. Why do I care if it's two dudes or gals?

They shouldn't concentrate on what the youngin's are doing unless it's illegal. The ones who advocate for gay rights are attacking the wrong people. I also don't quite agree to the skin color analogy. I have failed to reconcile that as well.

toxic515

Props to Fugly. Homosexual, Heterosexual and bisexual CAN be orientations OR activities. That is not said with the intent to insult anyone, but I heartily agree that engaging in occasional homosexual actions does NOT make you a homosexual, any more than engaging in occasional hetero activities makes you hetero, or bi for that matter.

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Charlatan

Rather than seeing things as this or that I tend to think about human sexuality as existing on a continuum where you are 100% homosexual on one end and 100% straight on the other. I tend to thing that most people live somewhere along this continuum rather at the extreme edges.

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SabrinaFair

Word.

I know a lot of Kinsey's work has been criticized, but I'm a big fan of his sexual continuum theory. Sexuality doesn't have to be one extreme or the other, or even dead set in the middle between same-sex orientation or opposite sex orientation. There's a whole great-big middle ground. Explore, enjoy, and be honest.

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FuglyStick

But doesn't that ambiguity lend itself to the argument fundamentalists make that homosexuals can be "cured?" If it's possible for you to be, say, 10 percent heterosexual, isn't it just a matter of conditioning for you to become 100 percent heterosexual? Isn't it saying that every heterosexual has the potential to be gay, and every homosexual has the potential to be straight? And doesn't that support the fundamentalists' assertions that single parent families, cross dressing at a young age, sexual abuse and cross gender play, among a litany of others, are the "causes" of homosexuality? And doesn't that open the door for them to assert that there is no such thing as homosexuality--that without a catalyst to "cause" homosexuality, it ceases to exist?

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Martian

That's all a cognitive leap. There's no basis for it.

Saying that someone is (to use your example) 10% homosexual speaks nothing as to why that person would be that way. It offers no constrictions on how sexuality is expressed. Indeed, it does quite the opposite; the sexual continuum theory suggests that there's absolutely nothing wrong with a straight man being attracted to another man, or a gay man to a woman.

Using numbers or percentages to express such a thing is cumbersome at best. Regardless, imagine the hypothetical 10% homosexual man. This is a man who is primarily attracted to women, and who probably identifies as heterosexual. However, this man occasionally feels attracted sexually to other men. If we assume the 10% figure refers to the ratio of potential mates, then for every 9 women he is attracted to he'll meet one man who invokes a similar response.

It quickly breaks down and the clumsiness of the metaphor becomes apparent. Even so, I think it serves the purpose. Whether or not this man chooses to act on those impulses (probably not), they're still there. Depending on his upbringing he may even think them shameful and wrong, but that's not going to make them go away.

Sexual continuum is simply a rejection of cookie-cutter labels in favour of a more realistic model that accounts for individual variations. There's no more or less to it than that.

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Plan9

"They say straight is the new queer and girls love girls after a few beers."

Hell, I don't care what you are as long as you're not a douche about it.

Gay pride, straight pride, anything-that-moves... leave that shit at the door, emos.

What you do with your crotch isn't something I wanna hear 'bout in public.

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FuglyStick

But when you muddle the issue of sexual orientation, you debase the gay community's pursuit of civil rights.

In a perfect world, there would be no need for laws to protect different religions, races, sexes, or sexual orientations. But the world we live in does require those laws to protect and ensure the rights of minorities. Homosexuals are persecuted, discriminated against, and victimized by hate crimes. In order to obtain that protection, homosexuality must be defined. If you water it down and say "everyone's a little homosexual," then there's no need for civil rights for homosexuals, because the laws in place for everyone would already apply, and that's simply not the case. "Labels" and "definitions" are necessary to establish what you are fighting for.

And no offense, but the sexual continuum, in my opinion, is just a lazy vindication of sexual ambiguity (I'll say it again, because if I don't say it in every post, I will inevitably be accused of homophobia--consenting adults can participate in whatever sexual behavior that they wish). The overwhelming majority of straight people are happy, well adjusted straight people with zero interest in homosexual sex; I imagine that within the gay community, a large percentage are happy, well adjusted people with zero interest in heterosexual sex.

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Martian

Look, if you want to get into the whole civil rights thing we can do that. I'm more than happy to discuss when it is and is not appropriate to introduce labels and segregation of minorities. The pros and cons of different types of legislation, sure, I'm down with that.

Within the context of this thread, however, and in reference to the issue of the OP, civil rights is a non-issue. You're right that we need to label gays in order to be able to address their grievances, but that doesn't mean that everyone we apply the 'homosexual' stamp to has to be 100% homosexual 100% of the time. It's not intellectual laziness; in fact, I reckon it's the opposite of that. Trying to fit everyone into one of three boxes doesn't work. It's easier, yeah. It's much simpler to just slap a label on someone and move on with your life. And yet, that results in situations like this poor girl wondering if it's okay to be bi, and exactly how bi she ought to be. It's a fucked up situation that results from everyone trying to cram themselves into these neat little holes. The real world doesn't work like that.

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I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

ametc

Love is what you make it.

Do what you wish with whomever you wish. It shouldn't matter to your friends what you do to make yourself happy. It doesn't concern them at all.

Charlatan

Personally I don't care if there is ambiguity in my sexual identity.

Yes, I understand the need to speak in absolutes so that certain factions can be convinced that rights should be granted. To that I say, human rights are human rights. My desire to partner with either a man or a woman does not in any way impinge on your rights. It's plain and simple.

Thankfully, these rights are protected in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Though I can't say the same for the nation-state in which I currently reside... it is even more antiquated in its laws than the US.

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cadre

If you're going to argue that keep in mind that people are never exactly one race either and yet we protect people from discrimination on that basis as well. The protection extended to sexuality isn't based on a specific sexual orientation anyways, it's the discrimination based on any form of sexuality (this is the concept, the practice is always different of course).

I'm of the opinion that sexuality isn't an either or thing. The continuum makes a lot of sense to me personally because while I am attracted to both men and women, I tend prefer men. I really just don't label myself, if other people want to that's fine but to me it's not that simple.

I would say it's just fine to do whatever you want. Don't worry about the labels.

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boobqueen

i am a female , straight

genuinegirly

Not quite what the thread was about... but thanks for posting. Great to see a new face.

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"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

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YellowBird

For starters I'd appreciate not being called a "poor girl" it's rather demeaning.


Kinsey's scale, if you care to look it up in wiki, is a 7 step scale from zero being Exclusively heterosexual to six being Exclusively homosexual, 3 being bisexual and then you have all the steps in between.

the scale is viewed as being reasonably set. aka a person fits a certain number on the scale and it may change over time but it isn't something that changes regularly. - it doesnt allow for the idea that someone can be "cured", mainly cause that's a fucking stupid idea that the catholic church came up with and because it wasnt created with that in mind, it was created with the idea that not everyone fits into boxes, it allows for a little more flexibility. - unfortunately this is only valid if your writing a research paper on human sexuality, it doesnt work in the real world cause most people havent heard of it and if you said, "I'm a two on the Kinsey scale" people would laugh.

does anyone know or have read research about what does actually cause sexuality? I always assumed it was biological of some description but I dont actually know.


As for civil rights I think the world needs to get over it's self and realize that hey, we're not all the same, everyone deserves the same respect and rights. I don't understand why people have so much trouble with this concept and why we have to make it specific to gay people or black people, we're all equal are we not?


Something else that came to mind after reading the responses, is the issue of gay marriage, I know I just said that people are people we're all equal but this is slightly different for this reason - in australia (where I am) to my knowledge there is words in the legislation on marriage that gives a married couple the RIGHT to have children. I think that if gay couples are suddenly given this "right" there could be a few issues.


the other topic - emo kids- they piss me and probably everyone else off. but they have kinda fucked with the idea of what "Bi" is, am I right? - it kind of becomes an issue when people start telling you your an attention seeker or your just trying to be cool because you've messed around with girls. It seems counter intuitive.

all of which still leaves me confused. maybe I am just a silly little girl who's experimenting. or maybe it's more then that. I dont know.




also, any thoughts on threesomes?

Taja

Hi boobqueen! Glad to see you participating.

I'm a female, bi

The thread title is Gay Stright (sic) or Bi? boobqueen may not have wanted to enter into the debate here, but at least she participated!! Please don't chastise her.

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ratbastid

Seems to me like that's the whole point of experimenting. How would you know, without going and finding out?

I'm for them.

genuinegirly

The world is never black and white.
I'm glad that you see it as varying shades of gray.

Why not challenge your friends' perceptions by saying "I'm a 2." There's no harm in it, unless you don't feel like explaining what that number means to you.

The definition of bi that I have heard in common conversations involves a person of whatever gender who is equally comfortable dating a woman as a man.

Threesomes can fit into a bi lifestyle, they can fit in with a straight lifestyle, or they can fit into a couples lifestyle. A couple can occasionally pick up a third with no emotional connection to that third. A group of three can also form a poly relationship. But there are so many variables, so many options. I don't pretend to have the answers.

Didn't intend to chastize, just welcome.

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"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

ametc

I was invited to a bisexual orgy before.. I declined because I'm totally not into girls. I've tried to be open minded about myself doing it.. but the vag is not something I find very attractive.

My one friend is totally gay and has a threesome with this one straight/bi couple all the time. He says that he can have sex with a girl without minding but he's not into the vag at all, either. He needs a guy there if he's doing it with a girl.


My other friend is gay.. but considers himself bi even though he acts like a stereotypical gay guy. He had a girlfriend in highschool.. but that lasted like a week and he's been with his current boytoy for about two years.


Threesomes aren't my thing. I have low self esteem and I'd feel like the other person would just be judging me or making me look bad and I know I'll end up getting pissed off and calling them a whore and kicking their ass.

Deltona Couple

I can't really suggest, nor can anyone else honestly, what you should do or not. It is YOUR lifestyle, and the best that we can do is give you feedback from what we have seen and/or encountered and give you the information. This being said, the choice of openly dating women or men, or both for that matter, can have a lot of bearing based on what kind of life you live in a personal standpoint. Are you a college student, who has a part time job at Wal-mart? Or are you a graduate who has a important position in a high-profile job? Are you in or planning on joining the military? All these can be affected by openly dating other women.

For example, if you are currently in, or considering joining the military, I would recommend keeping a tight lid on your interest in other women. Also if you have a high-profile job, you may need to consider if being openly bi/gay might be detrimental to your position. While I personally fully support a person's right to do whatever the heck they want sexually (within of course the limits of the law) I also am realistic in the fact that one's sexual orientation can be a SERIOUS issue in their career.

On another of your comments, about the kids these days: I have 2 daughters who are in their teens, and we have an open door policy when it comes to sexuality with them. They know that we support and love then irregardless of what they choose to be. My oldest one went through a phase, similar to what you had described, where at that time it was the "in" thing for a girl to be bi. She discovered it wasn't her cup of tea shortly into her experimentation time. My youngest one, well to be honest, I'm not sure where she fits. She has mentioned her interest in other girls, but has stated mater-of-factly that she feels emotions towards boys, but likes the fun with other girls. So I guess I don't know quite where to put her...lol. This all leads to what is popular. Both of them have said that in their school here in Texas, being bi is an "in" thing for girls, but when we lived in Florida, those girls were chastised and looked down on, so they tended to keep it more secret. So I am sure that acceptance is geographic as well, and based on local acceptance.

As far as 3-somes, I say it is entirely up to you and the other 2 involved. I have been in both types of 3-somes before, and it can be accomplished easily. You just have to make sure everyone involved is equally into the idea, or problems can crop up.

I say the choice on openly dating is entirely up to you. Whatever YOU personally feel comfortable with should be what you choose to do. Nobody can tell you what is best for you, but yourself. Hope this post helps in some way...and if you are in another 3-some....pics are requested...hahaha. (just playing)

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lostgirl

Listen to the advise given. It is all good, but most of all, do what makes you happy.

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thespian86

Best. Advice.

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snowy

Why does there have to be a label involved? Why do people have to fit into these neat little slots?

I like girls and I like boys, but what I'm into at the moment often depends more on the person than their equipment. I'm in a long-term relationship with a guy, but I still have a couple raging girl-crushes (he knows about them).

The best policy is honesty when you're dating someone and you might get serious; it's also totally okay to say that you don't know what you are, and you're still figuring that out. Otherwise, it's really none of their business. I always used to sort of brush it off by saying, "I'd prefer not to pin myself down with a label. It's too restricting." And no, I'm not the first person to do this; I actually got the idea from Michael Stipe of REM.

You'll figure it out someday. It's certainly not worth worrying over other's perceptions of you.

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Xerxys

QFT

No one seems to be listening to me so I'll yell it out there again ....

Date girls, I am male, and I approve this message!!!

cadre

There's a lot of research done on the causes of sexuality but from my knowledge there's no definitive answer yet. Unless you ask a priest of course.

As far as gay marriage is concerned regarding children: there was a court case in Florida recently where a judge ruled that it is unconstitutional to deny gays the opportunity to adopt children on the basis of sexuality. It's one step forward if you ask me.

Also I would say the issue of kids thinking it's cool to be bi is specific to emo kids. One of the main reasons I don't discuss my sexual orientation with most people is that I don't want to be associated with those people though.

And lastly, the topic of threesomes: I am also a fan.

Good advice! You'd be surprised how much of an effect things like that can have. Doesn't seem like a big deal when you're young but that seems to change as people get older.

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Hellaphli915

A married couple can have the right to have children or bear children but what if the woman cannot have children? Is she then useless? No. The couple can then adopt children if they choose to. Even if the children grow up and think that their original parents didn't want them and they are lost when it comes to their genes and genetic backgrounds, they cannot say that they were not loved. My point is that I cannot see the complications of a gay couple adopting children. The only thing that may be complicated is if the gay parents try to force the gay lifestyle on the children as if it is the only way to be.

iwst99

It just sounds like you're totally open to anything, which is awesome. I know a few people that are married and experiment as a couple with other couples doing both gay and straight activities. Just do what feels right.

pornclerk

I am a bisexual female as well. I have been with a few women and had two threesomes. As far as dating a woman, I'm not sure I would because my family would probably be devastated. I have though about it before. It could be fun, but I would probably never openly do it. I definitely wouldn't do something long term because I can only picture myself being married to a man.

The thing is that we can't really tell you what to do or what would make you happy. If you aren't sure, my advice would be to try it out and see how you feel then.

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TomSmith65

I quit trying to figure my sexuality out a very long time ago. I accept the fact that I am TRYsexual and as long as no one suggests children or animals under the age of 18 I am a happy man.

(That's 18 in human years, not dog years)