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#1 (permalink) | |
Addict
Location: Amish-land, PA
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Karl Rove's Speech condemning liberals
From CNN:
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What do you all think? Personally, I find it disgusting that this purveyor of evil would dare say such disgusting things condemning Democrats and Liberals for 'coddling terrorists' and being in support of terrorism. Apparently, we all should repent for our evil ways, or else we shall burn in Hell. Notice me shaking in my boots. Woot.
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"I've made only one mistake in my life. But I made it over and over and over. That was saying 'yes' when I meant 'no'. Forgive me." |
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#3 (permalink) |
Addict
Location: Mansion by day/Secret Lair by night
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It reeks of a bit of desperation as approval numbers fall almost daily for the administration for Rove to drag out that tired old bag of tricks. In the middle of all the things they should be concentrating on, did he really pull out frickin 9/12/2001? One trick pony, I guess.
At the very least, go get OBL before we have to listen to more of your bull about terror and your middle school posteuring about you being tougher than another grown man. The sabre rattling looses it's luster when another 30 men left families behind today in the name of our countries collective dick size.
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Oft expectation fails... and most oft there Where most it promises - Shakespeare, W. |
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#4 (permalink) |
Deja Moo
Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA
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I deplore this type of hubris and hyperbole whether it comes from Dean or Rove. Think about it for a moment. We are doing a better job here in an obscure politics forum in discussing our differences in politics than the political leadership of the dems and reps.
Like Gilda Radner would say in full character, "Never Mind." ![]() Last edited by Elphaba; 06-24-2005 at 05:38 PM.. |
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#5 (permalink) |
Addict
Location: Mansion by day/Secret Lair by night
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Elphaba, I understand - it looks like Kerry photo op and a bit of grandstanding because Krove had a few drinks and got stupid. But after listening to McClellan everywhere and Rove continuing to run his mouth about not owing anybody an apology, I say back the motherfucker up, so he crawls back into his office and doesn't come out until '08, or let retire early.
He was elected to nothing, so shut him up. He didn't earn the right to speak on behalf of this country. He is a hired hand bashing our elected officials and making the US look weak and divided. Nobody who cares about this country should tolerate it Pubs, Dems, Ind, whoever. I was just reading more of his blather from today... He embarasses all of us.
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Oft expectation fails... and most oft there Where most it promises - Shakespeare, W. |
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#6 (permalink) |
Gentlemen Farmer
Location: Middle of nowhere, Jersey
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Good for Rove and fuck moveon.org and their devisive vitriol, blantant lies, and disgusting corruption of reality.
They proposed exactly what Rove said. Dialogue, understading, and indictments. Mobilize the Compassion Industry they cried. Typical. Democrats don't even have the balls to own up to their own base, or their own points of view. Kill the messenger. We said that...we think that...but HOW DARE YOU tell people what we said or think. How dare you!!!! One of several reasons why they have become so irrelevant to the daily discourse. It's funny how Rove is dismissed as desperate and a one trick pony. This a man who has has summarily embarrassed and marginalized those in the Democratic party for the shill hacks that they are. Loss after loss after loss...and to GWB too. Hilarious. When Durbin, that bastian of hope and reason, is held accountable for his "desparation" then perhaps we can talk about Rove. Frankly, and likely unbeknowst to those pathetic democrats, Rove has some master plan here, that ends up shaking some heat off of Bush and even further humilating the opposition. It would fit his MO perfectly. Like him or not he is a brilliant political strategist, who answers to no one. Especially not some whiny pathetic irrelevant democrats. Whah Whah Whah. Stop whining about Rove (and everything else while your at it) and get on with life. Find someone who will expose the republicans for the shill hacks ~they~ are. -bear
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It's alot easier to ask for forgiveness then it is to ask for permission. |
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#7 (permalink) | |
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Location: Mansion by day/Secret Lair by night
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Oft expectation fails... and most oft there Where most it promises - Shakespeare, W. |
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#8 (permalink) | |
Banned
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In the aftermath of 9/11, Bush, as Rene Zellwigger's line went in the movie, "Jerry McGuire", had us...(ALL Americans. of all political persuasion) from hello !
Bush also had similar backing from most of the leaders and residents in the western world. Rove's remarks are just more in a long line of mistakes that effected and reflected, the long decline that we are witnessing...... Quote:
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#10 (permalink) |
Junkie
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The liberal response to Rove's remarks, and the war on terror in general, shows that America now will never have a single front war. America will now always have to endure attacks from without and within. Much of America has seemingly lost the will to do what is necessary, and turns it's aggession against the very people trying to ensure the security of them and their children.
I have often debated with people about Hitler's greatest mistake in WWII (people seem to forget that there were many instances where he could have concievably won the war). Now I know his greatest mistake-not being born 50 years later. In the current climate, liberals would label Hilter a misunderstood leader bringing prosperity to his country, and FDR and Churchill would be denounced as evil warmongers bent on spreading Christian propaganda through a rapidly secularizing Germany. |
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#11 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Detroit, MI
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What this says to me is that the Dems STILL have no answers - zero. No interesting solutions to world events, no creative thinking. All they seem to offer is the same mindless, Pavlovian counter-criticism to whatever the Repubs say or do. Not one original thought out of the lot of them. Karl Rove is simply toying with the Democratic party by eliciting just the type of thoughtless, hypocritical responses such as those from Clinton and Shumer. It keeps the Dems from thinking, keeps them on the defensive, keeps them in an intellectual limbo, and ultimately, keeps them out of power. They are stuck in a self-defeating loop. |
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#13 (permalink) | |
Psycho
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If you believe that, I'll at least have respect for you having consistent logic. Was it the protesters that lost us that war? I'm thinking history has already turned in a different verdict, but I'm curious about your take. Or if you think this situation is different. edit: and your second paragraph seems like quite a stretch. But you're sure entitled to your opinion... |
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#14 (permalink) | |
Junkie
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#15 (permalink) | |
Banned
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Do liberals support "Palestinian Rights"? If so, they support terrorism. Hell, look at PETA and ALF/ELF. They're the left's favorite terror group. If Liberals don't want to be seen as condoning terrorism, they ought to do something revolutionary for them, like, say, STOP SUPPORTING TERRORISTS. It's kind of funny how that works... |
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#16 (permalink) | |
Banned
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/Oh wait... |
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#17 (permalink) | |
Banned
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As for Hitler, if he were in Germany today, he'd be considered a progressive, and the Liberals would claim him to be their best buddy, just like the far left loves Castro and Mugabe. |
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#18 (permalink) | |
Banned
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If you have a termite nest in your house, you don't just kill the one termite that got lost and wandered to where you could see him. You kill ALL of the termites. |
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#19 (permalink) |
This vexes me. I am terribly vexed.
Location: Grantville, Pa
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I challenge anyone here to furnish us all with a quote where ANY ONE LIBERAL said we should be providing these people who killed 3000 americans, with therapy rather than justice.
Rove is a divisive hack who all too frequently slanders the unity that was briefly forged through the wrong committed that day. He just completely dishonored 1/3 of america. |
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#20 (permalink) | ||
Addict
Location: Amish-land, PA
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At the beginning of the Iraq war, Hussein was a nominal threat to the US and the world. We took him out of power, we destroyed his government, we set up a new one. Why are we still there? At this point, I'd be all for releasing Sadaam, letting him try to go back and reconstruct. He has no power now. If the insurgents want to kill him, fine. If he truly is strong enough to form a new government, he knows that the entire world will be watching him so closely that he can't head to the bathroom without being seen. Today, we are doing nothing but hurting ourselves. The Arab world hates us. The Asian world is not really fond of us, either. Has anyone ever attacked Sweeden? Seeing a mad rush to wage war on Canada? I don't think so. Understanding those that may oppose you and trying to diffuse hatred is the only way to avoid war and future death. Quote:
Sound familiar? The past leads to the future. Welcome to America.
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"I've made only one mistake in my life. But I made it over and over and over. That was saying 'yes' when I meant 'no'. Forgive me." |
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#21 (permalink) |
Insane
Location: Pacific NW
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How about just doing your JOBS without all the hyperbole and bluster!! This constant bickering and back biting is not healthy for this country. Is this tendentious and juvenile behaviour by members of both parties meant to turn voters off? I'm beginning to believe the master plan is just to completely and utterly alienate the American voter. I for one have had my fill.
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"The gift of liberty is like that of a horse, handsome, strong, and high-spirited. In some it arouses a wish to ride; in many others, on the contrary, it increases the desire to walk." -- Massimo d'Azeglio |
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#22 (permalink) | |
Insane
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#23 (permalink) | ||||||||||
Banned
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Abu Nidal?......Please !.....................the last time that I observed a conservative trot out that tired old bogey man was when Ollie North used him as an excuse to deflect accusations that he had illegally accepted the gift of a security fence around his private home, Quote:
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See: http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpos...6&postcount=30 http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpos...0&postcount=32 The argument that Saddam was supported by the U.S. for reasons having to do with a strategy of supporting Iraq to blunt the larger threat of Iran, rings hollow and empty when one counts the anti-tank missles delivered at the direction of U.S. to Iran during the same period, in direct contravention of the President's publicly stated prohibition of negotiating or supporting terrorist states, and Iran in particular, and in spite of vehement advice to desist by close advisors to President Reagan. See: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/reagan/...e/index_5.html A reader can also observe in the timeline at the above link that other military support was provided by the U.S. to Iran in it's war with Iraq at the same time that the policy of aiding Saddam was justified as a way to counter Iran! Quote:
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#24 (permalink) | |||
Addict
Location: Mansion by day/Secret Lair by night
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They deserve to know. The answer is obvious - we're going nowhere. Bush and Cheney think this is the new Saudia Arabia meanwhile Iran and Iraq are dry-humping in the back room. We have just put the largest reserve of oil in the world in the hand of Shiite Muslims. The crazy ones. That leash won't be coming off until they take our money and weapons and use them to kick us out. For example: 1979 Iran, 1987 Iraq, 1990 Afghanistan... It's not that the Democrats don't have an answer, the answer just hasn't changed. Come home. We are nothing more than bodygaurds for al-Jaafari and the Shiite cleric while they create openly an Constitution based on Islamic Fundamentalism. http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...iraq_bush_wa_1 Quote:
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Oft expectation fails... and most oft there Where most it promises - Shakespeare, W. |
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#25 (permalink) |
Pickles
Location: Shirt and Pants (NJ)
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I think to say that people shouldn't protest over a war.. any war.. is pretty pointless. People WILL protest over wars. They do not want to see their friends and family sent to fight, to die.. to kill.. they dont like getting shot at, and people in general dont like being drafted (vietnam). To expect someone not to protest in the face of being forced to kill and get killed is a little ridiculous. There will always be people like moveon.org who will show how people don't want to go to war, and offer alternatives. You shouldn't bash these people, but work with them, and move toward their approach, leaving the killing behind. It should be our main objective to move toward peace, not to further our little world police game, and continue with the death, and slaughter, oppression and hardship that are THE CAUSE OF TERRORISM IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Especially in this situation, when we didn't even finish the first war.. and already launched a second one on a country that really wasn't a part of 9/11 at all.. what-so-ever.. people are gonna be a little pissed off. While Afghanistan may have been a "called for by all", "hey lets go kick their collective asses" type of deal, Iraq was, and still is nothing like that. Karl likes to lump Iraq in with the war on terror because that's what that whole region is like now. A giant clusterfuck of terrorism. It wasn't always like this. Granted it wasn't a picnic before, but you dont punch the hornet's nest then shove it in your crotch, expecting them to suck you off.
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We Must Dissent. Last edited by ObieX; 06-24-2005 at 10:37 PM.. |
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#26 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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karl rove: what a guy.
what a perfect embodiment of conservative ideology--a kind of cynical fellow who is confused with a brilliant media strategist seemingly because the only thing his office sells with more vigor than the various idiocies of the bush administration is the illusion that karl rove is a brilliant media strategist (an administration can only go on so long and hey, a boy's got to live...)--a mediocre fellow not bothered by facts or history or coherent policy--the kind of guy who like military parades and great big flags and doesnt think that there is enough of either, really--the kind of guy whose politics benefit from war, need war, whose political position right now owes everything to a craven and at the least misleading marketing campaign centered on war. i am sure that pure rovethought was expressed in cheney's "vote kerry and you will die" stump speech. rove is a guy in a position to move talking point by talking point through the main claims particular to the fantasyland that is conservative ideology--but the folk who support his politics, contrary to all reason, do not read his ridiculous speech and wonder to themselves "what the fuck am i doing?'--no, they rush to defend those talking points, they enjoy them... it does not matter what they are. karl rove: the quintessential conservative. looking back to the good old days of red baiting and probably feeling more than a little sympathetic for those poor germans who felt after world war i that they too had been stabbed in the back by some fifth column...like them, "real americans"--cheap steak tough americans--folk like himself--- will one day not have to trifle with this pesky debate business, not be bothered with this democracy thing. instead, flags, loyalty, parades--if many many brown people far away have to die to generate more occasions for parades, more flag graphics on fox news, more reasons to produce unthinking partisan loyalty (read some of the posts above), then so be it--all that matters i guess is that america--the karl rove america--the one that has a profound and abiding problem with reality---the karl rove america marches forward. facts be damned.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
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#27 (permalink) | |
Junkie
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And yet another AMERIKKKA=NAZI GERMANY!!11!!! comparison, how original ![]() |
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#28 (permalink) | |
undead
Location: Duisburg, Germany
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and I consider your post pretty much offensive.
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"It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death — Albert Einstein |
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#29 (permalink) |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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I find Rove pathetic and extremely divisive and I find anyone that suppoerts these comments beyond contempt and feel sorry for them because they are full of petty hatred, and an overflated ego that someday will come crashing to Earth.
He said nothing that Limbaugh doesn't say every day.... the difference Limbaugh is entertainment and says what he says to get ratings and to make money. Rove said what he said just to show hate and to provoke hatred and anger because he knows the GOP is in serious trouble and believes that like the past spewing hatred and accusing Dems of everything will win votes. I also find some of what the righties in this thread say nothing more than trolling and trying to start flame wars.
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" |
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#30 (permalink) | |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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i post the following edito from the ny times that outlines the ongoing development of the implications of the vast steaming brown mound that is rovethought--the attempt to bully npr/pbs into being another arm of the conservative media regime.
essentially, rove is a thug, the juluis streicher of bushworld--same strucutre of argument, different object. he would prefer to be portrayed as mastermind of a successful propaganda campaign in support of yet another radical nationalist movement sweeping in from the extreme right--but that changes nothing.... Quote:
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 06-25-2005 at 03:45 PM.. |
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#31 (permalink) | |
Psycho
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I'll grant you that not everyone lining up behind a particular effort (whether it's war, or a particular social security plan) makes things harder to accomplish. It's also the very backbone of the way our country works. I think that the challenges it brings are far outweighed by the benefits. And, lord knows, I don't want to start a Vietnam thread jack, but... The Vietnamese people fought an insurrection against the Chinese for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. I struggle to put my mind around that. 100 years... 1000 years.... The great US military leaders of the time, thought we could win that war?? I'm guessing discord at home had an impact on US. But approximately zero impact on the actual events on the ground. They would have worn us down with perfect unanimity at home. The American attention span just can't compete. Couldn't then, couldn't now. We knew (know) nothing about that culture and what makes it tick. I find parallels with the war du jour. |
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#32 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Right here
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You've always made valuable contributions in my book.
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"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann "You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman |
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#33 (permalink) | ||
Banned
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As for Saddam not being responsible for 911, well, maybe he shouldn't have been so quick to try to "cash in"... http://www.webmutants.com/strategypa...the_towers.jpg Saddam was not a nice man. Your defense and support of his rule is duly noted. "Aid and comfort", "aid and comfort", my "friend"... Quote:
I'll avoid quoting Tacitus for you... |
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#34 (permalink) | |
Banned
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You say that the communist controlled and financed anti-war movement in the US had very little effect "on the ground". That is not supported by the facts. The South was eventually overrun not by insurgents, but by formed, regular units of the North Vietnamese Army. US air and artillery assets alone would have been enough to defeat such a force, using the ARVN merely to protect those assets. Why didn't they? Because they had been pulled out of the country as a result of the anti-war movement. You say that dissent is how our country works. That's not QUITE the whole truth historically. Historically, there has been debate going back and forth until a majority comes together and decides on a course of action. At that point, often the minority has historically put aside their differences with the majority to form a united front. For example, long-time isolationists put aside their isolationist rhetoric to work towards allied victory, regardless of the fact that they really didn't want to be in the war. This did not always happen. On at least one occasion, a US Senator actively supported "the enemy" on the floor of the Senate, prompting the President at the time to say ""Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled, or hanged." He carried through on it, too. The lunatic-fringe far left has only recently (in a historical sense) moved from hiding their treason (and getting "the gas" when caught, after due process of law) to trumpeting their treason as being a series of patriotic acts. Will our nation survive? I don't know. |
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#35 (permalink) | |||
Banned
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#36 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Detroit, MI
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Dick Durbin, number 2 Senatorial Democrat recently made the following comments in regards to Guantanamo Bay:
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#37 (permalink) | |
Banned
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I'm sorry, I'm talking about AMERICAN "progressives", not German "progressives". Hitler did indeed push forward a wide variety of "progressive" ideals, such as social security, universal health care, gun control, et cetera. That's where the "Socialist" in "National Socialist German Worker's Party" comes from, after all. Of course, he only pushed it for people of "acceptable racial purity"... |
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#38 (permalink) | |
Insane
Location: Mattoon, Il
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If Dick Durbin wants torture, he should look at the Iraqi "insurgents" for advice on that:
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Stick that in your pipe and smoke it, Dick.
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Pantera, Shadows Fall, Fear Factory, Opeth, Porcupine Tree, Dimmu Borgir, Watch Them Die, Motorhead, Beyond the Embrace, Himsa, Black Label Society, Machine Head, In Flames, Soilwork, Dark Tranquility, Children of Bodom, Norther, Nightrage, At the Gates, God Forbid, Killswitch Engage, Lamb of God, All That Remains, Anthrax, Mudvayne, Arch Enemy, and Old Man's Child \m/ |
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#39 (permalink) | |||
Pickles
Location: Shirt and Pants (NJ)
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We Must Dissent. |
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#40 (permalink) | ||
Banned
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condemning, karl, liberals, rove, speech |
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