Sun Tzu

Well if your one to say the Arabs have more land than the Israelis; that would make perfect sense. Swedish from Sweden, Spanish from spain, etc doesnt cover it. There are only caucasions, hispanics, asians, blacks (or whatever the current politically correct term is), and being the Jews and Arabs have the same origin--Abraham whatever that view is.

As for your last question; I think you know the answer.

__________________
To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

Mephisto2

The ANC was a terrorist organization.

REF: http://www.specialoperations.com/Ter...CGuide/A_F.htm

There's plenty more information out there if you want to look.

One man's "terrorist" is another man's "freedom fighter".





Mr Mephisto

Mephisto2

I suspect I've met more French people than you, having lived and worked there for about 9 months, and travelling there on business very regularly. I've met some assholes (like I've met some American assholes), but the vast majority of them are lovely. Just like you guys in the States.

Making generalizations like that above is either short-sighted, trolling or honest to goodness racism.

Well, let's check the definition, shall we?

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=race

So, yes. The French are a race. Therefore disliking them is racist. I'll leave others to take the logic to its inevitable conclusion.


Mr Mephisto

daswig

I think you should reread what I wrote. I said that I hadn't met any french nationals that I like, but caveated it with the possibility that there are french people I would like, I just hadn't met them.




OK, now I'm amused. That definition that you're using means that "American" is a RACE. That means people who don't like all Americans are racist, right?

In the law, there's a thing called an "absurd result". You just tumbled into one by declaring french people to be a "race". "French" is a nationality, not a race.

Mephisto2

"...but as for the actual French? Ask me again after they've figured out deodorant/anti-perspirant."


As I said, I'll leave everyone to draw their own conclusions.


If I said I don't like all Americans, that they are stupid, or smell or are inferior, then yes that would be racist.

The same as if I said it about all Mexicans. Or Italians. Or Irish.


Race is not a term that is that popular any more because of its history in Social Darwinianism, Malthusianism etc. But the term racist is derived from the same root and is used to describe such predjudice as evidenced above.


If you say so, it must be true.


Mr Mephisto

daswig

Once again, we're back to you putting words in my mouth. Please quote where I said ALL French people were ANYTHING.

Hate to pull lawyerly word-parsing stuff on you, but I said "I've yet to meet..." while providing for the possibility that there may in fact be people in that class (French) out there that don't meet my characterization. That's personal observation, not racism.

There IS no "American" race. If there were, there would be certain chromosomal racial characteristics that such a race would have to have uniformly, and there isn't. There is no "French" race, for the same exact reason.

Mephisto2

[QUOTE=daswig]Once again, we're back to you putting words in my mouth. Please quote where I said ALL French people were ANYTHING. [quote]

For the third time, let me quote you directly.

""...but as for the actual French? Ask me again after they've figured out deodorant/anti-perspirant."

That sounds a little predjudiced to me, but as I repeatedly said, I'll let others make their own decision.

Pull all you want.

Wrong.

You would be right if race was a term used exclusively to describe genetic or ethnic groupings. But it is not. It is also used to describe cultural and/or geographical groupings of people. There is a lot of debate on whether "races" (in the limited, short-sighted way you describe them above) actually exist at all. But certainly concepts like "the German race" exist, because it includes more than just ethnicity. And racism certainly exists.

If you want to use "lawyerly" word pulling, allow me to ask you some clear cut questions.

Do you accept that racism exists?
If so, on what basis can it be identified?
If someone said "I hate all Mexicans", would that be racist?
If someone said "I hate all Africans", would that be racist?


Mr Mephisto

alto92

sir, you are, as i've read from you many times, way off the mark here. mephisto is 100% correct in his last definition of race. it's not limited to an ethnic grouping, and your strong language only digs a deeper hole for yourself. also, i suspect that a racist someone from the american south once said that they hate blacks because they smell and are stupid and that their convictions were based on "personal observation," not racism. honestly daswig, cut your losses on this one...

tecoyah

Okay guys......

race

1. A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.
2. A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race.
3. A genealogical line; a lineage.
4. Humans considered as a group.
5. Biology.
1. An interbreeding, usually geographically isolated population of organisms differing from other populations of the same species in the frequency of hereditary traits. A race that has been given formal taxonomic recognition is known as a subspecies.
2. A breed or strain, as of domestic animals.
6. A distinguishing or characteristic quality, such as the flavor of a wine.


[French, from Old French, from Old Italian razza, race, lineage.]

Usage Note: The notion of race is nearly as problematic from a scientific point of view as it is from a social one. European physical anthropologists of the 17th and 18th centuries proposed various systems of racial classifications based on such observable characteristics as skin color, hair type, body proportions, and skull measurements, essentially codifying the perceived differences among broad geographic populations of humans. The traditional terms for these populationsCaucasoid (or Caucasian), Mongoloid, Negroid, and in some systems Australoidare now controversial in both technical and nontechnical usage, and in some cases they may well be considered offensive. (Caucasian does retain a certain currency in American English, but it is used almost exclusively to mean “white” or “European” rather than “belonging to the Caucasian race,” a group that includes a variety of peoples generally categorized as nonwhite.) The biological aspect of race is described today not in observable physical features but rather in such genetic characteristics as blood groups and metabolic processes, and the groupings indicated by these factors seldom coincide very neatly with those put forward by earlier physical anthropologists. Citing this and other pointssuch as the fact that a person who is considered black in one society might be nonblack in another many cultural anthropologists now consider race to be more a social or mental construct than an objective biological fact.

Hope this allows things to get back on track...............hint

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

Mephisto2

I notice you used the same definition I did in post #43.

Either way, I think this thread has degenerated beyond usefulness or interest.


Mr Mephisto

Kalibah

Badabing

I see a potential clean sweep this weak

Castro goes keel up
Arafat joins the depths of hell
and Bush wins

wow - could it get any better

powerclown

Speculation Runs Wild Over Arafat's Health
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Published: November 2, 2004


Filed at 2:01 a.m. ET

CLAMART, France (AP) -- Yasser Arafat's French physicians are refusing to discuss his health crisis, leading to rampant speculation about the Palestinian leader's dramatic deterioration.

One Palestinian official ruled out leukemia, while another said it was not a concern ``for the time being.'' A medical guessing game has ensued, with talk of possible blood disorders, poisoning, a viral infection.

Israel's chief of military intelligence, Maj. Gen. Aharon Zeevi-Farkash, did little to clear things up. He told a Cabinet meeting Sunday that Arafat's ``situation is between full recovery and death,'' said an Israeli official who briefed reporters on the meeting.

``Arafat's condition is improving,'' the official quoted Zeevi-Farkash as saying. ``The blood transfusions have helped. We don't know if it's viral infection, perhaps mono, or it's leukemia or another cancer.''

Palestinian Foreign Minister Nabil Shaath, however, has said all types of cancer have been ruled out.

As the ailing 75-year-old Arafat entered his fourth day of emergency treatment at a French military hospital Monday, French doctors maintained their policy of silence.

French physicians have refused to comment on the Palestinian leader's health until a diagnosis can be made based on a battery of tests that started immediately after his arrival Friday.

Together, Israelis and Palestinians are waiting impatiently for that diagnosis -- though it was unclear when it will come.

Even the due date for a diagnosis was unclear. Palestinian Cabinet minister Saeb Erekat had said a medical report would be issued by early Tuesday. But Mohammed Rashid, a close Arafat aide, said results were expected Wednesday. Arafat spokesman Nabil Abu Rdeneh said the results might not be available until Thursday.

Arafat has been ill for two weeks and took a turn for the worse Wednesday, collapsing and briefly losing consciousness. Initial blood tests performed in the West Bank revealed a low blood platelet count. French physicians at the Hopital d'Instruction des Armees de Percy, gave Arafat a platelet transfusion shortly after his arrival.

Platelets are blood components that aid clotting. A low count indicates a possible problem with the bone marrow, where blood cells are made. There are many causes of platelet decline, ranging in severity from minor to life-threatening.

Poisoning, either from the toxic side effects of medicine or food contamination, is only one of many potential explanations for the blood condition. An initial concern was leukemia -- which counts among its symptoms a low platelet count.

``Arafat does not have leukemia,'' his aide, Rashid, said Sunday. ``It's been ruled out. Rule it out.''

Arafat's envoy in Paris, Leila Shahid, sounded less certain. ``The doctors exclude for the time being any possibility of leukemia,'' she said, also Sunday.

The Israeli parliament's Defense and Foreign Affairs Committee discussed Arafat's condition in its weekly meeting Monday. A military intelligence official told the closed-door meeting that Arafat apparently suffers from a severe viral infection or cancer.

Israelis, including government officials, criticized the intelligence network for failing to track Arafat's deteriorating health.

``If there is one figure that intelligence is following since 1968 every day and every hour, and he is not too hard to follow ... it is Arafat,'' Akiva Eldar, a commentator, said in Israel's Army Radio morning talk show with Rafi Reshef.

``We didn't know that his health was so bad. Everything that happened at the Muqata (Arafat's headquarters) a couple of days ago came as a complete surprise,'' he said.

---------------------------------
Still no conclusive evidence one way or the other. Why all the secrecy?

Kalibah

The true question is
if he gets 'better' will the israels let him back into palestine

powerclown

Fresh concern raised over Arafat's health
By Danielle Demetriou
Published : 04 November 2004

The health of Yasser Arafat, the Palestinian leader, deteriorated significantly yesterday prompting doctors in France to conduct further tests.

Mr Arafat has been treated in a French military hospital since being airlifted from his Ramallah compound in the West Bank last week. While he appeared to be making a recovery, it emerged yesterday his health had taken a turn for the worse over the previous 24 hours.

Leila Shahid, the Palestinian envoy, confirmed 75-year-old Arafat had suffered a setback but insisted that his life was not in danger. "Obviously in his case, there could be setbacks at times and this is a setback, The doctors will give a very clear and direct explanation and report on what is happening."
While Palestinian aides have insisted that the leader does not have leukaemia, doctors are continuing to conduct tests.

Mr Arafat's health deteriorated hours after he sent a message to George W Bush, the US president, to congratulate him on his re-election.