pan6467

I see 2 threads that all they do is fuel hatred of the other party and people that don't agree with the originator's view (although one was started to show how ridiculous the other was, however 2 wrongs don't make a right). I understand hating a politician and a party's platform. But to divide the country over all this shit is kind of detrimental.

It's not just here but it is everywhere and either we find a way to end it and respect and live with the other side or we may as well have a civil war and battle it out like the neanderthals some of us seem to be.

Both sides have to admit that the other wants the best for the country the only difference is philosophies in getting there. We have too many Limbaughs and O'Reillys and and Dredge's and Faux News and Micheal Moore's and who ever the left has, telling us to hate each other and to hate someone simply for their ideas. It has got to end people.

Now someone on here will reply, (he always does even tho he knows I have him on ignore) and attack me and then someone will attack him and so on and so on. What does it prove?

I admit I was bad and am bad on subjects close to me but I don't attack people, I attack political ideas and politicians but not people. Deep down we are all freaking Americans wanting what's best and need to realize that and get away from the personal hate.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

seretogis

Why? You should know what I'm talking about.

__________________
seretogis - sieg heil
perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost
no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

Zeld2.0

Well to be honest that reply only follows his point... =/

Rdr4evr

EDIT: I better just shut up....

pan6467

There ya go, thank you.

And Seretogis you haven't liked me from day 1. I don't give a damn but I have never done anything to you so.....

As for Faux News and Dredge.... WHILE I have some respect for the others I listed, I truly have absolutely none for those 2. I find them very cdevisive and very hateful much more so than Limbaugh or Moore because Limbaugh and Moore are entertainment the other 2 make pretenses to being unbiased and the only true news that shows the truth and only the truth.... "we report you decide".

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Rekna

want to know what makes me mad? The fact that before this election started I had always been independent. However, Bush has pushed me to the left (hopefully it goes away after the election). I find my self supporting Kerry (even though I don't really like him). But I can't stand Bush. Sadly if 4 years from now we were embroiled in WW3 I would not be surprised. Only this time it won't be Germany as the evil country that is trying to spread it's will across the globe.

Rekna

It looks like my poll was thrown into the abyss never to be seen again, unfortuantly Ustow's is still around.

Ustwo

Since pan has me on ignore I find this ironic.

Sorry pan old boy, but I don't 'hate' liberals. I want them defeated, I want their twisted and constantly wrong ideology something for the history books, I want to protect my country from them so we never become so weak our survival is in question.

Liberals have already destroyed millions of black families in the last 30 years and turned them into undereducated vote plantations. They work to divide the country based on race, sex, income and age, and then set them selves up as the savior. In good conscious I can not let them succeed.

I suppose these boards have helped me realized just how wrong people like you are pan, in fact I registered to be a Bush volunteer today. Mental masturbation with some liberals on these boards accomplishes nothing, but maybe I can do something in a key state that Kerry is starting to lose control of

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Zeld2.0

I always say, you don't have to be angry to get into politics, but once you follow it, you become real angry real fast.

My suggestion - just stop visiting political discussion and reading about it. Enjoy life instead of trying to fight it. Go read about sports, go hiking, go to the gun range, and stop worrying about how the world *should* be - just make it better for yourself and others by what you do in your life.

I got active in politics before but then I realized that life is just so much better when you enjoy doing what you are doing, not gritting your teeth at what you are doing.

pan6467

Rekna, I can see your point and trust me I've been there in the belief and I sometimes revert to it because it is a very very strong feeling and easy to have.

However, we can only change what we can. If Bush is elected and God forbid things do get worse, we cannot sit back and say, "see told ya so", we acn only do our best to make sure it doesn't happen.

The optimist in me believes this is just the pendulum swinging and it is starting to run its course and cycle back to the left. But the one problem that exists is the divisive hatred that is destroying us from within. Both sides want power so badly that they bully, cajole, lie, whatever they can get away with. And the people in the middle are being forced to take sides.

Hopefully this all ends soon and we can get back to politicians working together to help build a better country.

We are a centrist by nature nation that just wants to be on top again. but we'll never do it if the 2 sides keep fighting to the death.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Rekna

I wonder if Ustwo dreams about Ann Coulter

I mean she is cute but damn if she opens her mouth...

Zeld2.0

You know, you remind me of another poster who came here right when you left, wonderwench. Any relations?

Both of you have nothing more to do than to destroy liberals.

Thats fine, be my guest, but if thats all you are here on the board for, good luck. You're really only destroying your own country and community.

Oh and why go on the politics board for debate if you aren't going to debate? Just why? But I suppose saying what you said clears it all up for the doubters.

Apparently for you, war has been declared, and America isn't big enough for those you don't like.

pan6467

Save your breath, that's why he's on my ignore, he refuses to bring facts and spews only hate.

Both parties (moreso the GOP because I can almost guarantee people know the names of more right winged hate mongers than they do lefties) don't want peace. They only want to destroy each other. Unfortunately neither realizes they are only turning us into an international laughingstock that is very very scary because we have nukes and seem to want to fight not just ourselves but anoyone who disagrees with us.

I reiterate what Kruschev said back in the day...... "We will not destroy you, we will not even have to touch you. you will destroy yourselves from within..."

How prophetic he was.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

seretogis

I just found it ironic that a "WHY HAET?!?" post would include childish name-calling of Drudge and Fox News. *shrug*

__________________
seretogis - sieg heil
perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost
no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

Zeld2.0

I agree its ironic - actually I find it more ironic both fit so well.

pan6467

I see that pathetic, both were wrong to have on this board. But it just proves my point that the mods have 2 sets of standards one person seemingly can get away with anything, attack anyone and demand proof, from the rest of us while others of us have to walk on eggshells and shut up when someone personally attacks us.

Rekna, just put him on ignore, it works and allows this forum to have some class in my eyes.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

pan6467

I think I explained it, I have no respect for anyone that claims they are unbiased and just stating facts when they are biased and do nothing but sell hate. I think, I also said I was not above it myself.

Why do you have to personally attack me, I have never done anything to you. You want to comment and debate that's fine but you just have to keep trying to attack me. Although there for a while you had stopped .... hmmmm.

Besides it's WHY HATE?

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

phukraut

Not adding anything meaningful here, but I thought this was funny. Is this a Freudian slip?

Rdr4evr

This is damn good advice.

pan6467

Not adding anything meaningful here but adding some humor to you and lightening up things a bit (hopefully, sure someone will attack me for this tho)

Yes, Politicians in my eyes are not people, they are those little critters that came out of that vampires finger in the first Bloodstone movie. They grow into these creatures that end up having no ethics but can tell everyone else what is right and what is wrong.....

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

seretogis

I don't respect John Kerry, but I'm not about to start a thread titled "Why hate Libertarians?" and then call Kerry a mindless twit inthe middle of the first post. Politics is, unfortunately, very emotionally-driven and if you want to "stop the hate" you need to take the first step. Resorting to name-calling in your very first post on a "why hate?" thread shows to me that the rest of the post is insincere, and that you don't want to actually remove hate from politics, just deflect it from your candidate. Once you are willing or able to put aside your hatred long enough to construct a post without exhibiting it, I'll take your "stop the hate" thread seriously.

I'm not making personal attacks against you or your character, I am challenging your post, the way in which you started this thread, and your motivations for this thread. I don't know you personally, and don't dislike or like you. To me you're just someone that I disagree with on a message-board.

__________________
seretogis - sieg heil
perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost
no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

pan6467

editted see below post

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

pan6467

You are right Ser. I am so used to typing Faux and Dredge I didn't even think about it. I should have refrained from using them as examples because of my immense dislike for them. It did shoot the rest of my argument to hell. I did say I was just as guilty, but when making an argument one should refrain from becoming his own target.

As for the personal attacks, I don't know it just seems that your rebuttals to me have been not always on topic or my opinions but towards me personally. Perhaps i am too sensitive. If your attacks haven't been personal and since you say none of them have then I appologize for believing they were.

And before someone claims I posted I wasn't posting anymore on Politics, I did want to address this before I left.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

onetime2

I like you Pan, but creating a thread like this and calling "the other side" names while only posting a single example of "your side's" negativity can not possibly result in rationale discourse.

There's far too much bullshit in the politics area. Logic is secondary. Everything is so easily ascribed to political ideology that the subject becomes moot. I've had a few very good conversations in politics but they are very few and far between. And in every one of these, where some common ground has been found, I've fooled myself into seeing a glimmer of hope that I could now enter into rationale discourse with one or two of the "usual suspects" who rail against the "right" (which by default ends up being me) but, alas, it has only happened three times that I can recall. Pan, mml, and even Superbelt and I have gone on to having some very productive conversations (at least IMO) once we established a certain level of respect for each others' viewpoints. Obviously progress can be made but it takes work and a concerted effort to put the partisanship behind. It's far too easy to default into defense/offense when being attacked for your point of view. I'm no better than most others when it comes to that. Thankfully on these few occasions we've succeeded and I think we all got a little bit more understanding out of it.

__________________
Strive to be more curious than ignorant.

Ustwo

Bingo. Same idea behind the 'stop the smears' post of his.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

analog

Mod note:

Real quick: while writing this, I realized I’m cursing more than normal- which is out of frustration, not anger- and I do a lot of capitalization... this is for EMPHASIS, not because I’m yelling.

Ok people, I'm not shutting this down. Since this is a waste-of-space thread anyway, I'm going to take this opportunity to find out exactly what the fuck goes through your minds. You can actually respond to me right here in this very thread as to WHY it's SO HORRIBLE here in Tilted Politics. I'm serious. I want to have a thread here about why YOU ALL think that this forum is so fucking bad- and more importantly, what YOU ALL can do to correct it.

Guess what- YOU ALL are the ones who keep the board going. You feed it info, you take in the opinions of others, and give your own in return. YOU people are the ones who bicker, whine, argue, call people names, incite anger, flame, bait, curse, blindly hate AND blindly follow people/parties/ideals/etc. The moderation staff here, while perhaps involved in posting on a personal level, does not determine the course, affiliation, methods, or practices used to post here. We only tell you not to flame or bait each other, and that threads must actually be a discussion, not just “I like/hate this thing that happened, do you?”. Quality, people, quality. You can get flaming, baiting, and bullshit nonsense “discussions” pretty much anywhere on this huge thing we call the internet.

Point 1: "Liberals" complain that the "Conservatives" get away with Kerry-bashing –OR- "Conservatives" complain that the "Liberals" get away with Bush-bashing.

Answer: We can't catch, decide on the merit of, and edit (if need be) EVERY fucking post you people put up here. Some of us have our own politics, and are less or more sensitive according to it- not willing to ignore, just perhaps less sensitive than you, who are VERY sensitive. I do not really "do" politics- I hate politics, so I dare anyone to try and find a bias in my editing/closing/etc. Any attempt to do so will be met with my laughter, as I do not have a bias- you ALL piss me off when you ALL get like this.

Point 2: People complain about a thread being closed.

Answer: If a dozen people are having a big discussion, and you are the only one out of the dozen or more to write a mod and gripe about it’s closing, then guess what- IT STAYS CLOSED. Jesus, this is not hard to figure out, people. Threads close to begin with because SOME PERSON or multiple people couldn’t keep their shit together and abide by the rules. You people in Politics are THE ONLY people on the TFP who consistently and blatantly disobey the established rules for this forum- and you almost never get in trouble for it. Getting a PM from a moderator to tone it down, or to take it easy, or watch what you say, is not “getting in trouble”. I don’t know how cake your lives are that getting a PM about doing what you’re supposed to be doing anyway seems like a scolding, but it’s not. Get some maturity, realize that you’ve done wrong, and try to fix it for next time, ok?

Point 3: There is a belief among some that Mods close threads when they want to, based on their own affiliations.

Answer: Just because you disagree with our decisions, does not mean that they are incorrect. We have a set of rules, we use that set of rules to identify problem threads, and we close when a thread is clearly in violation or, because we’ve been doing this long enough, sometimes when it’s obvious from the opening post and first few responses that the post will only degrade into a flame war, like all that have come before it that were like it. Yes, it’s THAT EASY to tell when that’s going to happen, and we will close a thread regardless of who it plays to.

In our capacities, we are objective and are only holding you to the rules that are set forth for you. We do not make things up as we go along, and we do not favor people or parties. If you’re hell-bent on believing that we’re really here just to oppress you, then good luck in life- because this is only an online web board.

How about you all have a discussion as to how you’re going to be decent human beings to each other, rather than how we’re trying to censor you. We only edit/close when you’ve broken a rule. That’s like me arguing with a cop over a speeding ticket because I WANT to speed, and “he’s being an asshole and enforcing the law.” The rules are there for a reason... quit breaking them, and we won’t have these problems.

Feel free to respond- the normal rules of flaming and baiting, etc., apply as always. Maybe you should think about how you POSITIVELY contribute to the board, and not just bring on the rhetoric every time you put your fingers to the keys.

- analog.

SecretMethod70

If I may add my own interjection here as well, regarding the poll issue. This is a perfect example of a view hazed by ideology. Rekna, you're thread asked for no discussion of any sort, was an indirect attack on ustwo, and really just had absolutely zero value whatsoever. I know this because I'm looking at it right now. And, incidentally, the thread was removed by a person whom I know for a fact sympathizes much more with the "liberal" side of things and cannot stand Bush. Ustwo's thread on the other hand, while it could have had better wording in the poll, was not a direct or indirect "attack" on anyone and actually sought to create discussion. I fail to see the similarity here - and, for the record, I hate BOTH sides.

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

Stare At The Sun

Everyone says Tilted Politics is so bad, personally, I don't think it really is. In the worst of threads IE; Mine, people seem to really pull their shit together. However, doing that on a day to day basis doesn't seem to happen. I know everyone is capable, but noone is perfect. I violate the rules but try as hard as I can to abide by them.

Politics is for many people a very sensitive subject, and one they feel very strongly about. I feel stronly, UsTwo does, SM70 does, Pan does everyone has opinions. But, the most important thing to remember that TFP is about getting along, and expanding your mind. I really feel that TFP has some of the most civilized and well established group of members on the web. We have the ability to be a very solid "think tank" of sorts, if we can sometimes put emotion aside, we could all learn a lot. Myself included.

All I'm really trying to say, is that if you all can put up with my threads, and keep your opinions and thoughts together, in a civilized manner, during the most emotional and controvertial threads, why not do it every day, in every thread?

I too for the record disagree with both sides.

Rekna

Ok since my name is here I guess I should respond.

First my poll was silly yes, it was meant to illustrate how slanted Ustwo's questions were in that post. You say his thread didn't attack anyone I disagree it directly attacks Dan Rather and CBS and anyone who believes there is some legitimacy to his report. His poll was not there to facilitate discussion (we already have a huge thread doing just that) it was there as a pure attack. I took offense to it because his only option in the poll that allowed me to state that the poll may contain some fact made the accusation that I was blind.

I'm guessing I must have missed something because I didn't see a lot of people complaining about it being deleted. I mentioned that it disseapeard and that was the end of it. I didn't complain or call mod bias.

Now there was one thing that bothered me about it disappearing but I was going to let it slide since this is brought out I will bring it up. I have a simple request. Don't delete posts, just lock them. Deleting posts always bothers me a lot mostly because on other forums i'm on mods delete anything that doesn't fit with their agenda.

I have not encountered this problem on this forum! Thank you for that.

SecretMethod70

To clarify, sorry if I made it seem you were claiming mod bias, I was using it as an example because it was simple brought up here and it was the latest action taken in Tilted Politics that was questioned by someone - not necessarily you.

Questioning the integrity of CBS and Dan Rather is entirely fair game - what we're concerned with as mods is attacks on TFP members. We may disagree on whether or not he sought discussion, and that's fine. But his thread was clearly made on the assumption that the documents are fake - and there are may people who do believe this - and he asks at the end of his post why we think CBS would go public with documents that aren't 100% certain to be legit. A valid question, even if they're not 100% fake yet either.

Anyway, the specific point isn't really important, I was just trying to get across that we DO think about these things before we remove/close threads and it has nothing to do with our own "agendas." The points analog made are much more important to be discussed.

__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

OpieCunningham

Yeah ... so I had a response which didn't single out Ustwo - but seeing as how he is the crux of the problem I see with this forum, it just didn't make any sense.


Any member that CONSISTENTLY talks down to anyone that disagrees with him - or even pre-emptively talks down to EVERYONE (see: his healthcare thread) has some serious issues in life. Coupled with the post he made just 20 posts up where he very clearly states that his goal is to DEFEAT liberals - it is blatantly obvious that his desire is not to DISCUSS politics - it is to force everyone into submission to his self-declared clarity of knowledge.

Why Mods continue to permit any member from approaching the forums as a means of snide attacks on the intelligence of other members is beyond me. Particularly with the constant repitition of "Mods are not biased". I don't give a damn if you're biased - you assuredly are, but it's simply human, not something I expect to be corrected. But if you refuse to put a stop to a member that rarely contributes anything without also contributing multiple attacks on the availability of intelligence within the community to debate him - I have to take exception.

I have only been here a short while. But in that time I have had very good discussions with conservatives on this forum. Almost NEVER do I see a non-combative position from Ustwo - and in the rare instances that he is not attacking the "twisted and constantly wrong ideology" or lack of intelligence of liberals (or every member of this forum) he spits out nothing but expanded talking points. But very shortly after doing that, he attacks anyone that challenges his viewpoint by claiming they are "blind partisans" who are "not capable of seeing the truth" instead of doing the adult thing: continuing on with the debate or ignoring it altogether.

If it is the opinion of the moderators that combative positions of childish claims of superiority of intellect which are used expressly to defeat one's "dangerous opposition" is a quality contribution to the TFP community, I would have to say I am shocked and disappointed.


On the larger scale of things, there are a number of reasons the politics area of TFP is the most heated. The primary reason is obvious: it's politics. This is an election year. This is one of the most important elections ever.


I, for one, think that TFP has been handled well by the Moderators (with the exception of the handling of Ustwo's abundance of derision for his fellow community members) because there are many voices of conservatives and many voices of liberals. If I wanted to join a community where everyone agreed with me and we all patted each other on the back for our brilliance, it would not be here. I want to debate with conservatives. But if I went to a conservative enclave, I'd be blasted out of the community or banned immediately. TFP is exactly right. Congratulations on that, and thank you all.

ARTelevision

This is often discussed behind the scenes and the fact is that those who blame one person are not blameless themselves. If the problem with Tilted Politics was one person....

I won't even complete that sentence because it's clear the problem here is not one person.

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create evolution

Willravel

Before you read this, *FYI* I'm quite drunk...so enjoy!
I am a little shocked at this. I agree and disagree with everyone on this board; just so you know where i stand (heh).
People seem to be choosing to point all of their guns and energy at how bad things are. Yea, some things in politics need fixing. There has never been a point in history where a government has been completely stable. Politics are a living organism that needs to constantly adapt and evolve to fit the world it exists in. I'm pretty sure everyone knows this. Now in order for the organism to evolve we must do a few things. We must be observant of changes of the world. We must be able to recognize what needs to be changed in pertaining to politics. So far everyone seems to be stopping here. The next step is to figure out SOLUTIONS to the problems. Example: the political state of our country (in some peoples opinion) has become less a government of the people and more a government of the government. i know a lot of people are mad about this. Now after you vent your frustration, let's try and create some possible solutions. We have a representative government. We are responsible for voting on those who deserve to represent us. Do we? Eh...I guess. Oh look, a porn star is running for governor! Let's vote for her!!! People seem to be too busy to take the time necessary to plug rationality, morality, and some decent study time into the voting process. We could have prevented the preemptive war on Iraq. All the people out there protesting probably voted. I wonder how many of them voted for Bush? Hahaha. The fact is that anyone who did even the tiniest amount of studying into Bush before the election probably could have seen that something like this was possible. At least more possible with Bush than with Gore.
(Oh God...the point is coming...)
NEEWAYS, all these people are getting really good at bitching. Ustwo has done it so long, he’s become like an old racist spewing bible verses about how niggers are less than human. He just rambles on and on listening to no one. (it’s trendy to take shots at him, so I thought I’d join in) Everyone seems to have an opinion. It’s cute. My opinion is that people talk a lot of shit and do NOTHING. Savvy? So if you’re a pussy little shit who masturbates while checking out the boards online just interjecting narrow opinions and not doing anything for what you believe in: I hope you enjoy a world filled with other people like you.
Otherwise, go do something about this great cause you represent on this forum and others. If you are against abortion, GO TO A PRO LIFE RALLY. I mean don’t go bomb planned parenthood or anything, but for God’s sake, do something so that you actually represent your cause as a person who can be taken seriously. You are against the war. That’s a big group of people. Find more and more and more. Get petitions started. Offer a plan of your own how to get our troops out asap, and yet stay popular with our allies and make sure the Iraqi people are safe. Standing on a corner with a flag is better than just typing a few hours a week.
Oops. Out of vodka. Better move on to gin...

analog

After more discussion between the moderators, we have decided that we're pretty much past letting you help yourselves.

We've tried it before, it never sticks, we end up here again.

So, below is the link to the new sticky outlining our new direction to help you all learn how to be human to each other. This thread is now closed, PM me if you'd like to be heard.

Link: Coming soon to a forum near you: Temporary Bannings

- analog.