loquitur

geez, the mere thought of banning books makes my hair stand on end. Well, such hair as I have, anyway.

Martian

Can you clarify this? I'm not entirely certain what your point is. Perhaps it's simply that I'm not sufficiently familiar with the writings of your founding fathers. If your point is that Malcolm X is somehow excused by having said these things in the time he said them, I would point out that the specific reason I chose to contrast him with Martin Luther King is because they were contemporaries who had completely opposite opinions on how best to achieve equal status for black Americans. Context is crucial, but holding up Malcolm X as an example of a man who promoted peace and understanding amongst all races is a bit flawed. Some people seem to be under the impression that when he left Islam he gave up his militant beliefs, but as far as I've ever been able to determine this is simply untrue.

This is a valid point; really, my only intention here was to highlight what I view as a flawed argument. Malcolm X was many things, but peaceful was rarely one of them.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

silent_jay

......

__________________
Absence makes the heart grow fonder

mixedmedia

I forgot you are in Canada.

I understand now that you were referring to Malcolm X as a man of 'peace' and not for his political activity as a whole. I misunderstood, I'm sorry.

My reasoning for comparing Malcolm X's statement in the context of the years of the civil rights movement to the American Revolution, was that, if you were to read the statements that incited the Revolution to take this country from the British, you would find them full of revolutionary rhetoric that is seen as not only justifiable, but admirable to this day. Therefore, I don't think the sentiment, whether it be that of peaceful or forceful revolution, inspired by the realities of segregation and cultural and systemic racism can ever be construed as out of line, inappropriate or (importantly) unexpected. It is the way people have reacted to oppression throughout all of history.

And it also bears to be mentioned that Malcolm X wasn't even a year out of his association with the Nation of Islam when he was assassinated and he was in the process of moderating his stance on revolution and black nationalism. Of course, we will never know who he might have evolved into and what he might have been able to achieve.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

pan6467

I think it is very prejudicial. Racist... the action did separate a race and if this was a speech to "shape up these men", it could have been done elsewhere or to all races, I see this as race based discrimination so an argument on whether the judge was being racist here is debatable. Hateful is a strong word and should not have been used. You make a very good point here.

If you preach prejudice and blame others for your problems or lack of success it is usually in a very hateful way.

This would be a good point in which to cover, if we were truly having a discussion on how to better relations. We would have to achieve a common definition of what promotes hatred.

I have stated had he done this outside his role as a judge and outside of the courthouse, it would be a civilian talking and expressing his opinion and advice to help those he wanted to help. I would have no problem with that whatsoever.

But in a courtroom, while in session or not, in the role of judge, this was prejudicial, in the very arena we should not be having any separation between groups of people.

But then are you saying we should look at the courts as "parents" and the defendants as "children". I know it' just an analogy.... but it's a stretch. Government is not our parent, government is there to protect us and to serve us in various ways without discrimination, without separation.

It took how long to get the government to look at the black man equally and now, now, you feel it is ok for an agent of the court to separate them.

It truly makes no sense to me.

Again, I have no problem if he goes into the community and works and speaks out to help those in that community with positive messages.... I would heavily applaud the man.

But in the setting it was held in.... I have serious issues with.

I am quick with the word hate, I am very passionate about 5 issues in politics... trying to get America back to recognizing its greatness and the wonderment of our freedoms not have them taken away because select groups find problems with those freedoms (rights), race relations, illegal immigration, education, finding economic stability and ways to distribute prosperity more fairly. But I also realize why I am not a politician. I find, especially in this medium but in all aspects of my life to some degree, I am easily flustered in trying to get across my point. My passion for these

Perhaps, this judge has done great things to help race relations, this was not one. It is true, I should not base my judgment on this man for one negative action he made.

They have millions of followers that believe what they sell. Again, it is easier to blame the white man and the government for your failures than it is to work and get out of the negative area in which you live.


I disagree here. Just because one is not racist nor discriminatory, does not mean that they are blind. There are problems here and we do need to work on finding positive solutions. It just seems that many who believe they have solutions end up taking it to far the other way and becoming hypocritical, which leads to more problems and not solutions.


This is a very complex issue.... on one hand we have is this an abuse of power, but then the deeper issue becomes the racial underbelly, that people don't want to talk about. How can you allow one judge of one background to do this, while condemning and saying a judge of a different background can't nor should be allowed to do this.

I have problems with both, because as shown here they tend to overlap.

Any judge doing this would have been wrong on the superficial level.

The double standard that says this judge can but others can't is wrong on a different underbelly level.


===================================================


Again, if you find it ok for a judge to separate groups in a court room and do this, I can understand. I don't agree with it but I can truly comprehend the argument.

But when one says.... this judge can do that and I'll praise him.... that a white judge can't and I'll call him a racist and demand his job.

Do you see the hypocrisy?

Towards Malcolm's end, he was changing very much. I provided quotes that demonstrated this above.

http://www.malcolm-x.org/quotes.htm

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

silent_jay

............

__________________
Absence makes the heart grow fonder

host

pan, do you suspect, at all, that the Bush admin. risked gutting the Voting Rights Enforcement section of the Civil Rights Enforcement Division of the DOJ, and actually reversing what it did, investigate and prosecute those who intended to make it more difficult for minorities to vote "as easily as everybody else can", to what it does now, investigate and prosecute minorities on contrived "vote fraud charges", because of mindsets like.....yours?

I do!

ratbastid

You know, you've been saying that this is "prejudicial" since the beginning. I'm still not clear what you mean.

Did he discriminate against the non-blacks by having them leave the courtroom? Did he discriminate against blacks by singling them out for a "come to Jesus" lecture? Something can't just BE prejudicial in the abstract, just because something happened that acknowledged the existence of race in a public building--it has to actually put somebody up and somebody else down. My question is: against whom exactly is it prejudicial? Because I'm not clear at all about that.

Let's see, a definition might give some focus to the question I'm asking here.

prejudicial, adj.

1. Detrimental; injurious.
2. Causing or tending to preconceived judgment or convictions

How EXACTLY is this detrimental, injurious, or causing or tending to preconceived judgment or convictions? I'm not saying it's NOT. It might be. I guess I'm saying that I'm no longer willing to take your assertion that it's prejudicial at face value. So supply us with some more of the logic that underlies your assertion, please. I can actually see how I would answer, if I were back in high school debate and assigned to argue your side, but I'm much more interested in your answer.

percy

I think you have a bone to pick somewhere about something eating inside you but are using this thread as a vehicle. No offence but that is the impression I get.

I don't know how this comes back to some white judge but I'll give it a go. If a white judge did what this judge did,.. kick everyone and lecture black people, then is he a racist?

Again it all depends. If a white judge is stationed in a predominantly black area, has predominantly black people charged in front of him, and decides to take it upon himself to lecture only the blacks? Maybe so, maybe not.

If a white judge does the above in Vermont, a predominantly white state,...maybe yes, maybe not.

Pan one thing I think you fail to realize about this supposed notion of rampant racism, is that it isn't cultural, it's individualistic. Racism is a core belief that dominates a person's being and is unfliching regardless of company or consequence.

But I see your point. In todays world if a white judge did what this black judge did, he would be labelled a racist, regardless, and only for trying to instill values in people who may or may not get it.

Unfortunately he would be labelled a racist by an ignorant society.

Good thing oranges aren't green, or someone would accuse them of being apples

pan6467

Not really, but perhaps. What eats at me is the hypocrisy. I once would have been one praising this black judge. But as I work in the inner city and become more exposed to areas I had never been exposed to and people I'd never been exposed to.... the view changes. You see white and black street people and they are just trying to survive. They all deserve the chance to better themselves and to get out of where they are.

Many look for excuses as to why they are where they are. Some of them are racist, some are conspiratorial, some are just out there. But the ones that don't look for excuses and believe in themselves make it.

I have seen neighborhood kids fighting gangs to keep out of them and go to college. I have seen men and women in their 20's get out of the negative mindset, that have stopped buying into it and have moved on.

But the ones that have stayed seem to live their lives in their excuse filled world.

It changes one's views and core beliefs when you spend the time and see what truly happens with people living in the inner city, high crime areas.

It comes down to the belief that some have that it's ok for a black judge to do this but not a white judge.

Like I said, this is a 2 pronged argument.

On the very top layer, the superficial we have should a judge be allowed to do this?

The deeper layer comes when those who say, sure he can do that... then say, but a white judge can't.

If this had been a white judge kicking non whites out, racism, prejudice and demands for his job would have been heard from Farrakhan/Sharpton to people in this very forum.

So that becomes a sign and symptom of a more serious problem that needs addressed, because it affects race relations and the continuing forward movement of our nation as a whole.

Double standards promoting racism/prejudice no matter how you look at it or what excuse you want to use still in the end are nothing more than hypocritical standards promoting racism/prejudice.

A female judge let's say does it. there would be some who would be ok with that but find it wrong if a male judge did it..... and so on.


Racism maybe a harsh word. I am not the most eloquent and right chooser of words. But I do see it as racist. Just as if a female had done it... it'd be sexist in my eyes. It's definitively prejudicial in my eyes.

That judge has no right to segregate and separate and decide who he needs to give "special lectures" to from the bench. ALL people may have benefited and some in that select group may not have even wanted to be there and felt singled out themselves.

This judge said it was ok to separate races.... and he did it from the bench.

THAT IS WRONG.... there is no excuse for it at all.

Now, we have some that will argue a judge can do anything and ANY judge can do this and they'd be ok with it. OK. There's the superficial argument. It's plain and simple and I can grasp that argument and in the end be ok with that opinion.

Then we have those who make the excuses, "Blacks can do it because.... but no white judge can because....." and we have seen those arguments here on this board. They will come up with "well the black culture.... but the white culture...." and so on.

So then the argument becomes why would you promote a racist way of thinking? A very divisive, very unhealthy way of thinking?

And that my friend is the problem I am having. Not so much the superficial because if you say you would allow all judges to do it.... I still would argue vehemently but I would see the merit in that side.

To say one can and one can't and he'd be racist.... boggles my mind I cannot grasp that idea being logical to anyone truly wanting racial harmony. This is something that I truly cannot let go. It's just so hypocritical and damaging to the country I love and am proud to have served and live in.

The country will never get better if we continue to allow this thinking to prevail and run cities, states and even the federal governments. We will eventually destroy all we have accomplished and this great nation with this thinking.

Ahhhh but oranges are green until they become orange.

PS I know I repeated myself in this but..... I answered it as honestly and as heartfelt as I could through this medium.


The judge obviously believed that whites could not benefit or were somehow not worth his speech.

A judge should show no favoritism nor bias of any sort towards anyone or group. This judge did. Most people respect judges because they are level headed and don't show bias from the bench. This judge did. If I were a white defendant and he had kicked me out simply because of my skin color, I'd have my attorney looking to sue in a heartbeat.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

host

pan, I think you're starting to believe your own BS.....

pan6467

Thank you for sharing your pessimism and hate Host.

But really what does that have to do with the OP or what I have seen in the area I work?

People can make it without becoming fortune 500 CEO's or is that all that matters to you Host?

Yep, nothing.

I knew I shouldn't have looked in the ignore..... I won't make that mistake again.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

jewels

Actually, this is the one thing you've said in this thread that I get.

However, the ones that are racist and conspiratorial and angry have not been educated (yes, ignorant, much like any other racist) and exposed to their own potential. I'm around that same element at work every day, too. Everyone knows that it's easy to tell someone they can be anything and that they can succeed. But some people can't believe that based on what they see daily. True education, not schooling, is what's needed here.

The Judge was reaching out to these very people. He wanted to believe he could reach out and educate.

The problem is, you call it "excuses". I call it exposure. The ones that believe in themselves are unbelievably brilliant and strong. Those that don't probably have the potential to be average. Not quite strong enough to see beyond the four walls of their day.

The Judge is tired of seeing his community appear before him. This is a private matter. They are his family, in a sense. True that the Judge could probably help educate by getting out in his community but was doing what he could do from his official pulpit.

Let him slide, pan. Intent is what it's all about.

__________________
We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
Mark Twain

silent_jay

.......

__________________
Absence makes the heart grow fonder

host

Because pan, I quoted you:
Then I showed you that there are only 4 black CEOs at forturne 500 Corps. An equal opportunity to "make it", pan, would be demonstrated if there were 40 or 50 black CEOs at fortune 500 Corps....but there are 4, pan....

Why stop at "fortune 500 CEO", pan....since "making it" is whatever the fuck YOU define it as.....

We're not talking about "people", pan. We're talking about black people. They are, except in extremely rare cases, excluded from "making it" to the top positions, the positions of true power and influence in the US. It's a fact. I showed you, and I EARNED your label of "hater".

Watching you post , is such a relief, because I was concerned about the lack of equal opportunity for all but "white men", but, if you say it's okay.....well....then it must be okay!

silent_jay

Define 'make it', and will this definition change throughout the thread?

__________________
Absence makes the heart grow fonder

host

"make it", is whatever pan sez it is, silent_jay, and obviously..... to "make it", begins somewhere around "shine, mistah?", and it stops shy of "fortune 500 CEO"..... and you look like a "hater", too....for asking!

Jinn

Off topic, what do you think of the OP?

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

ratbastid

I don't think that's at all obvious. Though I get that from your view of the world, it is.

I'm going to give you my interpretation of what happened, and I request you interact with it as as likely a candidate for The Truth as yours is.

Let's say I'm having a party, and there's something my wife does that irks me and I need to straighten it out with her. I'm going to take her in private to do that. It's not appropriate to do that in front of everybody--not everybody needs to hear it, and it could damage how she's thought of with others, and I'm not going to do that to her.

That's what happened here. He wanted to straighten something out with the black defendants in his courtroom. As a successful black man, he wanted to inspire them toward something, and tell the truth about how things are for black people--not in America at large, but RIGHT THERE in front of him. And he didn't think it was appropriate to have what was basically a private conversation out in front of everybody. So he asked the ones who it didn't concern to leave. Not because he hated them or he thought they didn't deserve or couldn't benefit from something, but because it just didn't concern them.

Can you consider that interpretation--MY interpretation--to be as likely to be The Truth About What Happened as YOUR interpretation is?

To start with, you'd have to give up that your interpretation IS the truth. You'd have to come to grips with your interpretation being just one of many possible interpretations. You know, it's not that your interpretation isn't valid--it's logically consistent with itself, you've got evidence to support it, etc, etc. What I'm asking for, though, would require you to acknowledge that other interpretations are equally valid, and that they're all interpretations.

If you can do that, then we're having your "sit down and look for common ground" conversation. If not, there's no conversation going on here, and none possible.

So you'd want the same lecture the black people got? You're sorry you missed out on being told to shape up? It's racist for him not to tell you that you're in sorry shape too? In my interpretation (which, again, if it's not as likely to be The Truth as yours is, we can't really talk), his excusing you means that he doesn't think you need this talk. See, I think if anybody is to be offended, it's the black people who he singled out as failures. But that's not how you see it. You see it the way that leaves you the wounded party. Which I find interesting. Not surprising--you are a human being, after all, and we human beings LOVE our victimhood--but interesting.

pan6467

And I understand and can respect that.... don't agree with it, I believe it was the wrong venue and exclusionary, but I can accept that.

We're all human, we all have lapses in... well judgments. I can respect the reasoning of the judge wanting to help and his intent.

In the end we don't have to like someone's intent, the venue they chose or how they went about something, but if the results are positive, something worked and in a way he will have done his job.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

silent_jay

............

__________________
Absence makes the heart grow fonder

pan6467

Comparing a party at home to this setting is a stretch I can't make.

As I stated in my last post to Jewels......I don't agree with the venue or how it was done but I can respect the intent.

I can.


I have just answered his. I have no problem with this.

Let's have at it.

I still believe that in that venue, all could possibly have benefited.

I think that judge picked the wrong venue. I think the intention may have been truly a wonderful and inspiring one.

I disagree the bench or using his position to achieve this was the right venue.

I think he may have had a bad day, saw too many cases and in a way snapped. I do not believe this was a planned event, that this in fact was a spontaneous event and done out of emotion, possibly a combination, anger, hurt, embarrassment, for what he sees young men in he community doing.

I can find acceptance and true understanding in all that. I may even respect what he did just not the action and venue.

So we can find some ground on the superficial level.

Now what about the dark underbelly double standard this event brings up. To say it is not an issue, is wrong. To ignore it makes it worse.. We as a country must face it eventually and work through it.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

silent_jay

I'm guessing by pan not answering why he continues to change the meaning of this thread he's got me on ignore as well, oh darn, I don't doubt I'm a 'hater' to pan, he already figures I have it in for him simply because I use his own words against him when he tries to use portions of arguments to suit his needs.

__________________
Absence makes the heart grow fonder

roachboy

but i really don't see the "double standard" in this.

that's one of the main arguments that's run through the thread--you maintain it is, others disagree, you ignore the criticisms and act as though the characterization makes sense.
i don't think it does make sense and the post i put up a few days ago about the different weights attached to "african-american" and "white" in the states was *about* this characterization and it's logic.

that this judge cleared the court of all but african-americans ENACTS the particular ways in which the category african-american (or a substitute) functions culturally in the states.
that's it.

"white" (or a substitute) simply doesn't have the same range of possible uses.

its not a double standard--it's a use of language that reflects differing historical experiences in the states.

you might not like it--hell, who really likes the fact that the present is shaped by the past when that past is as ugly as that of the history of racism in america?---but that doesn't change what this is.


you'd prefer, it seems, to see in the rejection of your characterization of this as an example of a double standard something more or other than what it is--that i don't understand, but i suppose it's your prerogative--you seem to think, though, that rejecting your characterization is a defense of double-standards or "division" or "hatred" of "negativity" or whatever--and that makes no sense to me.

you just picked a bad example: it's a mistake.
everyone does something similar at one point or another.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Jinn

Why is this a stretch? I think it's a perfect analogy. Unless the judge is making an official ruling, he's a private citizen, just like the rest of us. Just because he's wearing robes and sitting up on the bench doesn't make him any more or less right, any more or less authoritative. He was not making a ruling. HE IS A PRIVATE CITIZEN, TOO. I've had police officers give me their personal opinion as a private citizen, and it does not reflect as an "official police action" or "official police position" in the least.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

mixedmedia

QFT. And bolded portion that I believe is essential to understanding the point of departure for all black/white racial issues in this country. To do otherwise is blind denial.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

powerclown

Not in my opinion. I never owned a slave, or had anything to do with perpetuating slavery. I approach racial issues under the asumption that blacks are equal to whites are equal to asians are equal to mexicans are equal to tongans and even the french: nobody is "owed" anything.

dc_dux

I am still waiting for you or seaver to cite the law the judge broke... or on what legal basis you would sue.

I am not an attorney, but if I were, I would advise you to grown up and stop whining.

I would also advise you that if you believe in judging others based on the content of their character, rather than the color of their skin.....learn more about the person's character than what you see (with no context) in a one-minute video.

__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

Jinn

Powerclown: There's an essential difference between equal and equal treatment. I, too, approach it with the understanding that they are 'equal'. But am I naive enough to think that just because I haven't owned slaves that everyone is being given equal treatment in society? Certainly not.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

mixedmedia

Everyone is owed the acknowledgment of the real world that they live in.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Shauk

I judge people how they dress, sorry I can't help myself.

I walked to work this morning, there was a black male walking in front of me in a suit, there was a black male sitting on the bench in the bus stop wearing baggy pants, with one pulled up to his knee, a 'do' rag and a hoodie, there is a black male sitting next to me wearing jeans and a tshirt.

Yeah, the one dressed like a thug, him, he's the one I judged.

I don't feel racist for doing so either, I seriously hate the "thug" hip-hop culture and everything it stands for. It's the embodiment of a racial crybaby fest, it's the republican method of dealing with human differences, it's conflict, it's encouraging conflict.

truth be told, the skin could be any color, I dislike anyone instantly if they dress like a thug and they walk around like half retarded mouth breathers who have never owned a belt.

SORT of off topic but hey, lets turn what I said into a thread about "abuse of power" cuz apparently, the judge, who wanted to convey the same message I would have wanted to, isn't a racist, he just had no reason to tell people who were "doing it right" already, to "do it right" again

Ustwo

You go to far sir!

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

ratbastid

Given you'd be the one doing the owing, doesn't that strike you as a tad convenient?

pan6467

If it were a white judge and he had done this would you support a black man suing him? YES OR NO.... no bullshit excuses, no "depends" given what we know happened and instead of the judge being black he was white... and now a black man is suing.... Would you support or find merit in that lawsuit?

Ummmmm did the judge base his speech on people's skin color (think hard who did he kick out and who did he keep in)? YES OR NO.

Sooooo who's judging by skin color and whom is judging by character?

Here's a clue: I'm judging by the actions of the judge.... HE judged by skin color.


So if a white judge had done this, it would have been ok with you?

YES OR NO.

I don't want any more excuses, any more bullshit, I want a simple yes or no.

We are all human and we are all equal under the law. If there are problems, bring them out, let's fight them together instead of allowing it.

To allow one to do a wrong and then complain that someone else did the exact same thing but wasn't of he right race/background is just as wrong as allowing the action the first time.

To excuse someone for a wrong because someone in the past of the same culture was wronged..... IS WRONG.

If a Wiccan Judge in Salem, Massachusetts had done this would it have been ok?

Remember, the they tried and burned witches in Salem, so they went after witches.

Neo-Pagans and Wiccans have their own cultures and beliefs and some talk in their circles. So it could be just a cultural thing. Is that ok?

I'm Wiccan/Pagan. I think if it's ok for this black judge to do this because of the history of black people.... then it has to be ok for my people to do this.

Fuck right or wrong .... I was wronged by those people in Salem. They tried and burned my ancestors.

What's that you say.... I'm going to far now. But my people.... but my heritage..... but my beliefs and values and culture....

I see doesn't matter to you. Ok. But if I were black it would?

Do you not see the hypocrisy you support?????????

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

dc_dux

If it were a white judge and he had done this would you support a black man suing him? NO

Ummmmm did the judge base his speech on people's skin color (think hard who did he kick out and who did he keep in)? YES


You are judging a person based on ONE ACT and WITHOUT CONTEXT...and making erroneous claims about the legality of that ACT.

Now for important related questions that reasonable people should consider before jumping to conclusions based on an emotional reaction to a one minute video.

Did he violate any rights of those persons he tossed out? NO.

Did he question the character of those he tossed out...or disparage them in any manner? NO

Was there harmful intent in what you describe as an "act of discrimination" towards those persons he tossed out. NO

Even without knowing intent, were the persons tossed out harmed in any way. NO

And YOU havent answered the question....what law was broken....what legal claims would you have to sue the judge?

I don't want any more excuses, any more bullshit, I want a simple answer.

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"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

Shauk

pan why does it take 6 pages of no one agreeing with you to make you feel special?

just what the fuck is this thread even about anymore, i'm tired of seeing it bumped with "new posts" when the posts that are "new" are simply reworded paragraphs from page one.

what do you want? his head on a stick? is this really "injustice"? is this really an issue which is threatening the way of our lives? is this really close to harmful discrimination against whites? is this really close to censorship?

mixedmedia

So we're down to: see it my way or admit that you are wrong.

The tunnel vision of the dictatorial.

Good words go flying by in all directions - swoosh, swoosh, swoosh - still, nothing compares to beating one's fist on a desk and demanding intellectual obedience.

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Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

roachboy

un-fucking-believable.

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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

ratbastid

We were making such progress there for a page or two, too...

silent_jay

......

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder