Here is the part where I tell you what to think - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

GonadWarrior · 11-02-2007, 07:34 AM

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=58426

Quote:

The University of Delaware subjects students in its residence halls to a shocking program of ideological reeducation that is referred to in the university’s own materials as a “treatment” for students’ incorrect attitudes and beliefs. The Orwellian program requires the approximately 7,000 students in Delaware’s residence halls to adopt highly specific university-approved views on issues ranging from politics to race, sexuality, sociology, moral philosophy, and environmentalism. The Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (FIRE) is calling for the total dismantling of the program, which is a flagrant violation of students’ rights to freedom of conscience and freedom from compelled speech.

“The University of Delaware’s residence life education program is a grave intrusion into students’ private beliefs,” FIRE President Greg Lukianoff said. “The university has decided that it is not enough to expose its students to the values it considers important; instead, it must coerce its students into accepting those values as their own. At a public university like Delaware, this is both unconscionable and unconstitutional.”

The university’s views are forced on students through a comprehensive manipulation of the residence hall environment, from mandatory training sessions to “sustainability” door decorations. Students living in the university’s eight housing complexes are required to attend training sessions, floor meetings, and one-on-one meetings with their Resident Assistants (RAs). The RAs who facilitate these meetings have received their own intensive training from the university, including a “diversity facilitation training” session at which RAs were taught, among other things, that “[a] racist is one who is both privileged and socialized on the basis of race by a white supremacist (racist) system. The term applies to all white people (i.e., people of European descent) living in the United States, regardless of class, gender, religion, culture or sexuality.”

The university suggests that at one-on-one sessions with students, RAs should ask intrusive personal questions such as “When did you discover your sexual identity?” Students who express discomfort with this type of questioning often meet with disapproval from their RAs, who write reports on these one-on-one sessions and deliver these reports to their superiors. One student identified in a write-up as an RA’s “worst” one-on-one session was a young woman who stated that she was tired of having “diversity shoved down her throat.”

According to the program’s materials, the goal of the residence life education program is for students in the university’s residence halls to achieve certain “competencies” that the university has decreed its students must develop in order to achieve the overall educational goal of “citizenship.” These competencies include: “Students will recognize that systemic oppression exists in our society,” “Students will recognize the benefits of dismantling systems of oppression,” and “Students will be able to utilize their knowledge of sustainability to change their daily habits and consumer mentality.”

At various points in the program, students are also pressured or even required to take actions that outwardly indicate their agreement with the university’s ideology, regardless of their personal beliefs. Such actions include displaying specific door decorations, committing to reduce their ecological footprint by at least 20%, taking action by advocating for an “oppressed” social group, and taking action by advocating for a “sustainable world.”

In the Office of Residence Life’s internal materials, these programs are described using the harrowing language of ideological reeducation. In documents relating to the assessment of student learning, for example, the residence hall lesson plans are referred to as “treatments.”

Of course, this is World News Daily, and according to some, anything they report is a lie. (Never mind that such thinking is a fallacy.)

But wait: Here's someone else reporting it, and she has updates:

http://michellemalkin.com/2007/10/31...hool-responds/

Quote:

What’s wrong with the University of Delaware? Update: The school responds
By Michelle Malkin • October 31, 2007 04:05 PM

Residential life on elite college campuses has been infected with political correctness for decades. Ethnic segregation in dorms and at graduation. Mixed bathrooms. “Safe spaces” protecting sexual minorities from hearing any criticism of their lifestyles. I lived through it in the ’90s, but it has gotten progressively worse. What’s reportedly going now on at the University of Delaware takes the cake. Those who dissent from left-wing orthodoxies now must submit to “treatment.”

Another right wing nut job--can't be believed. But here are a couple of the documents involved (before they disappear, while the university furiously covers its ass)

It's a wonderful thing that "white culture" can be described in sweeping generalizations, such as "perpetuating the ideology that people of color are morally and mentally inferior to white people." I wonder when some enterprising young scientist will undertake a biological study to assess which gene that attitude resides on, since it applies to 100% of whites.
Until then, Al and Jesse can continue to bloviate about anyone who makes a generalization about blacks or black culture.

Most of us recognize racism when we see it. Some of us don't recognize it when it's directed at whites. It is impossible to miss at the University of Delaware, and a Don Imus-like solution should be imposed immediately.

In the meantime, every student at the University of Delaware, and every parent who pays tuition there, should tell the administration to shove this program up their collective ass.

When did college students become such docile sheep?

waltert · 11-02-2007, 05:12 PM

media sources often manipulate stories one way or another to accomplish their political desires, leaving out this or that...or doing whatever to bias the story.

some are more biased than others...

telling a half truth is the same as a lie in my book.

anyway...some people need a slap to wake them up from their whitewashed suburban world....

however, the document "diversity facilitation training" by shakti butler is downright incendiary, and if anything, she only shoveled fuel on the fire for racism.

as a student in the dorms myself, you have to realize that RA's have no real power, unless you're in violation of university rules, and they have no authority to force meetings on anyone.

I imagine that most students in the dorms didnt show up for such meetings, as I can assure you that there would be protests on campus if it were REALLY mandatory.

and most of the related documents are available on FIRE's website if you look

Ustwo · 11-02-2007, 05:17 PM

After this his the main stream in the last couple of days, they have been forced to back away from this policy.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/thefirecache/8585.html

Quote:

A Message to the University of Delaware Community

Nov. 1, 2007

The University of Delaware strives for an environment in which all people feel welcome to learn, and which supports intellectual curiosity, critical thinking, free inquiry and respect for the views and values of an increasingly diverse population. The University is committed to the education of students as citizens, scholars and professionals and their preparation to contribute creatively and with integrity to a global society. The purpose of the residence life educational program is to support these commitments.

While I believe that recent press accounts misrepresent the purpose of the residential life program at the University of Delaware, there are questions about its practices that must be addressed and there are reasons for concern that the actual purpose is not being fulfilled. It is not feasible to evaluate these issues without a full and broad-based review.

Upon the recommendation of Vice President for Student Life Michael Gilbert and Director of Residence Life Kathleen Kerr, I have directed that the program be stopped immediately. No further activities under the current framework will be conducted.

Vice President Gilbert will work with the University Faculty Senate and others to determine the proper means by which residence life programs may support the intellectual, cultural and ethical development of our students.

Patrick Harker
President

Ah the power of the internet.

37OHSSV · 11-02-2007, 06:08 PM

His apology for a far lesser offense didn't help Don Imus.

djtestudo · 11-02-2007, 07:35 PM

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...0&sportCat=ncf

It's sports instead of politics, but this column from earlier this year just became hilarious in addition to infuriating.

Note this fact:

Quote:

Indeed there is. Unlike the wealthy, white-as-snow University of Delaware (African-American enrollment: 6 percent...

ratbastid · 11-02-2007, 07:45 PM

From everything that's been quoted AND the statement from the school, I think only one thing is crystal clear: there's absolutely NO TELLING what actually happened.

Ustwo · 11-02-2007, 08:50 PM

Seems pretty clear....

School had a stupid policy, policy got out to general public, made it to internet sites like fark, school says 'oh crap, well lets put something out that says we are reviewing it but it was misunderstood and wait for it to go away.

host · 11-02-2007, 10:05 PM

<h2>Here is the part where I tell you that the OP contains no news reporting, because the source of the "article" is worldnetdaily, and the "organization" quoted in the article, "FIRE" is C-fucking-N-fucking-P, influenced.... i.e. rabidly conservative, politicized christian fundamentalist crap posing as "rights watchdog"!</h2>

Here's the speech by FIRE co-founder, Kors, as he gushes praise on the CNP audience. Lil Georgie was at the same 1999 CNP meeting, waiting to give his secret speech to these enemies of secular, open, democratic government:

Quote:

http://www.policycounsel.org/18856/32101.html
a Publication of The Council for National Policy

Alan Charles Kors - professor and undergraduate chair of history, University of Pennsylvania; director of general honors program, University of Pennsylvania; chair, SAS Committee on Undergraduate Education; fellowship, American Council of Learned Societies; editor-in-chief, The Oxford Encyclopedia of the Enlightenment; <h3>president and co-founder, Foundation for Individual Rights in Education</h3>; coauthor, with Harvey Silverglate, The Shadow University: The Betrayal of Liberty on America's Campuses;

....Delivered October, 1999 San Antonio, Texas

PROFESSOR KORS: <h3>I am singularly privileged to be in your company. It is rare in academic life that one finds oneself surrounded by warriors for human liberty, human responsibility and human dignity. It is truly a privilege to be here.</h3>

I should like to talk about the assault upon liberty and dignity in American higher education today....

Quote:

http://www.publiceye.org/ifas/fw/0009/bush.html
....On October 9, 1999, the secretive Council for National Policy (CNP) held its fall meeting in San Antonio, Texas. Governor Bush was invited to address this influential group. This time precautions were taken to see that no information leaked to the press.....

Here is the immediate past president of "FIRE":

Quote:

http://www.evangelicalsformitt.org/dfrench.php
David French

Co-founder

David, a graduate of Harvard Law School and David Lipscomb University, works for a non-profit legal organization and is a First Lieutenant in the Judge Advocate General’s Corps of the United States Army Reserve. <h3>The former president of the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education,...</h3>

Worldnetdaily is not a news reporting source. How could it be, given this background:

Quote:

http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/storie...ndlawsuit.html

...."<i>With respect to the 2000 presidential election, WND expressed no corproate editorial opinion as to whether voters should cast their vote for any candidate in opposition to any other candidate; particularly, WND expressed no corproate editorial opinion with respect to whether Albert Gore, Jr. or George W. Bush was the more suitable candidate to hold the office of President."</i>

This is disingenuous at best. As ConWebWatch has <a href="http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/stories/2000/bushdui.html#Anchor-UPDATE-50055">noted</a>, the day before the 2000 election, WND's commentary page carried no fewer than nine articles that were either anti-Gore or pro-Bush. Moreover, Farah -- who, as founder, CEO and editor of WorldNetDaily, can credibly described as its "corporate" voice -- wrote in an Oct. 25, 2000, <a href="http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=15075">column</a> that "There are at least a thousand good reasons not to vote for Al Gore for president," stated that "I have told you over and over again that Al Gore is unfit for the presidency" and asserted that "he will turn the presidency into a kind of neo-paganistic ayatollah-like system of oppression from which this country will never recover." An Oct. 4, 2000, Farah <a href="http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=15061">column</a> called Gore "a criminal, pure and simple. He's a political charlatan, a huckster out of the same mold as Clinton." And in an Sept. 22, 2000, <a href="http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=15053">column</a>, Farah called Gore "truly evil."

Looks like somebody has, in fact, expressed a "corproate editorial opinion with respect to whether Albert Gore, Jr." is a "suitable candidate to hold the office of President."

Further, it has bragged about the series' alleged effect on the 2000 election: A June 2001 <a href="http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=23048">article</a> stated that "WorldNetDaily’s uncompromising series on Gore and his cronies, such as Clark Jones, arguably played a major factor in Gore’s loss, according to some Tennessee political observers,", while a June 2007 <a href="http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56280">article</a> bragged that a new book on Hillary Clinton cited the series as having "played a role in Gore's loss" in 2000. That also appears to conflict with WND's affadavit claim that it had no "corproate editorial opinion" about Gore......

<h2>And, here is the part where I show you that the "reporter" of the worldnetdaily article in this thread's OP is a delusional (thinking that he was going to be working for a "news" website), christian fundamentalist activist in his own right: </h2>

Quote:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=51972
Veteran AP reporter joins WND team
Bob Unruh moves to online news leader after almost 3 decades with wire service
Posted: September 14, 2006
1:00 a.m. Eastern

WorldNetDaily.com

WorldNetDaily has added to its team of journalists a veteran reporter with almost three decades' experience working for the world's largest news organization, CEO Joseph Farah announced today.

Robert Unruh has left the Associated Press to join WND's fulltime staff.

"We're very glad to welcome Bob to WND," said Farah, who added: "The experience and news judgment he's developed from spending decades as a daily news reporter and editor will serve him well at the Internet's premiere news website." .....

.....Unruh married Patricia Knight in 1979 and they have two homeschooled children. They work with the startup branch of Christ the King Community Church in Gilpin County, a casino haven where fewer than 4 percent of the people attend a church.

"While I've enjoyed many experiences in wire service work, <h3>I'm more than excited to be able to work with the next level of journalists reporting the world through the unfiltered lens of WorldNetDaily," Unruh said. "While WND already has the best report on the Internet,</h3> there are many additional stories that, I believe, should be told and I hope to be working on some of those."

"I'm honored to have the privilege of working with Joseph Farah and the many other writers and columnists who give WorldNetDaily such a high-impact report."

Quote:

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/....aspx?id=15074
School district, family resolve lawsuit over Bible club invitations

By The Associated Press
04.04.05

DENVER — A school district has agreed to let a Gilpin County fifth-grader hand out materials at her school promoting a religious club.

The agreement reached last week in U.S. District Court resolved a lawsuit the girl’s parents had filed against Gilpin County RE-1 School District.

The district also agreed to pay $1 in damages and $10,500 in attorneys’ fees and costs to the family of Patricia and Robert Unruh, who is a newsman for the Associated Press in Denver.

Lawyers for both sides said they were pleased with the agreement.

Robert and Patricia Unruh said in their lawsuit that their daughter tried to pass out invitations to her Bible club during non-class hours at Gilpin County Elementary School but was stopped after Principal Deb Benitez said she had received complaints from other parents.

Benitez tried to resolve the dispute by distributing the materials to families who did not object. The Unruhs sued, saying other groups such as the Girl Scouts could advertise by handing out literature to students.

The school has agreed to let the girl’s mother advertise her Vacation Bible School in designated areas.

“The solution provides for relief for students, not just Mrs. Unruh, but all students and recognizes the First Amendment rights for all students,” said the family’s attorney, Michael J. Norton.

"FIRE" and worldnetdaily are offensive and worthless to relevant discussion on this forum. "FIRE" is a function of CNP. the Council for National Policy. Rabid christian fundamentalist propaganda "Ops" do not lend to or further our discussions here.

filtherton · 11-02-2007, 10:13 PM

Man, if only there was some sort of "market" that would force colleges and universities to "compete" with one another for the business of students. I guess our only hope here is that someday, such a "marketplace" will emerge, and college students- no longer having no choice at all in where they attend college and by extension placing themselves at the complete whim of secular (gasp, possibly liberal) policies- will be able to attend any college that they can afford.

I, for one, am shocked, SHOCKED, that anyone would choose to attend a college where there is a rigorous curriculum that extends outside of the classroom. Why, who has ever heard of such a thing?? That's like communism multiplied by homosexuality to the power of sustainable agriculture.

Being forced to lessen one's ecological footprint? Egads, what's next? Forced bestiality?

Being forced to understand the importance of leading a sustainable lifestyle? Dear lord, next thing you know these poor students will be dancing.

And being forced to acknowledge the existence of systematic oppression and *choke* advocate for oppressed peoples? SWEET HOLY MOTHER OF CHRIST SOMEBODY CALL BOB JONES!!!!!!!!

matthew330 · 11-02-2007, 11:08 PM

hehe......I really got a kick out of that,filterton.

Meanwhile, Host - how do you go from "hiding" your entire posts to opening with 24 point bold text.

Yeah, that's all I have to offer.

host · 11-03-2007, 12:19 AM

Bob Unruh is a christian fundamentalist propagandist, using the cooperative worldnetdaily as his pulpit. These fundamentalists are opposed to "Hate Crime" investigations and laws, because their own intolerant prejudices and religious doctrine render them vulnerable to criminal investigation and prosecution for their intolerant "activities". Whether it's about homosexual rights or efforts to interdict christian fundamentalist political influence into legislation or other areas of government, you'll find the "reporting of religious activist, Bob Unruh.
This agency investigates reports of hate crime:
http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/civilrights/hate.htm

can you pick out the states under heavy christian fundamentalist influence that have refused to track, investigate, and report hate crime incidences to the FBI?:
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2005/table12.htm

Alabama : Total number Agencies submitting incident reports= 0
Total number of incidents reported = 0

California : Total number Agencies submitting incident reports= 252
Total number of incidents reported = 1,379

Gerogia : Total number Agencies submitting incident reports= 4
Total number of incidents reported = 17

Michigan : Total number Agencies submitting incident reports= 166
Total number of incidents reported = 640

Mississippi : Total number Agencies submitting incident reports= 0
Total number of incidents reported = 0

New Jersey : Total number Agencies submitting incident reports= 216
Total number of incidents reported = 738

Quote:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=55392

WND Exclusive YOUR GOVERNMENT AT WORK
Christians in bull's-eye in new 'hate crimes' plan
Congress working to create penalties for non-PC views
Posted: April 26, 2007
1:00 a.m. Eastern

<h2>By Bob Unruh</h2>
WorldNetDaily.com

A fast-tracked congressional plan to add special protections for homosexuals to federal law would turn "thoughts, feelings, and beliefs" into criminal offenses and put Christians in the bull's-eye, according to opponents.

"H.R. 1592 is a discriminatory measure that criminalizes thoughts, feelings, and beliefs [and] has the potential of interfering with religious liberty and freedom of speech," according to a white paper submitted by Glen Lavy, of <h3>the Alliance Defense Fund.</h3>

Quote:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php...e_Defense_Fund
Alliance Defense Fund
From SourceWatch
Jump to: navigation, search

The Alliance Defense Fund (ADF) was founded in 1994 by more than 30 Christian ministries, as a response to the American Civil Liberties Union, to defend "family values." ADF's major focus is strategizing and coordinating with hundreds of lawyers and right-wing groups to defend what they define as "Christian legal issues." Examples include anti-gay cases like Boy Scouts of America v. Dale and Schenck v. Pro-Choice Network, and a national strategy to "protect marriage," following Vermont's decision to allow same-sex civil unions. People for the American Way notes that ADF's founding groups "are influential members of the Right, they are pro-life and anti-gay and their ultimate goal is to see the law and government of the US enshrined with conservative Christian principles." In 2004, ADF's total revenue was $17,921,146 (fiscal year ended June 2004), with net assets of $20,581,560. [1]

"In 1994, ADF solicited funds on Christian radio with an ad claiming, 'Pro-life demonstrations may soon be illegal. ... Religious broadcasting may soon be censored. Hiring homosexuals in Christian schools, churches, and even as Sunday School teachers may soon become the law of the land. ... Don't let Christianity become a crime' ... In 2003, ADF President, CEO, and General Counsel Allen Sears and ADF Vice President Craig Osten "expanded on that theme" in The Homosexual Agenda: Exposing the Principal Threat to Religious Freedom Today, "which ties homosexuality to pedophilia and other "disordered sexual behavior," according to the Southern Poverty Law Center, 2005.

ADF claims a high success rate in their legal challenges: "God has granted wins in almost three out of four cases decided (John 15:5). Cases that strengthen our position in the battle for religious freedom, the sanctity of human life, and traditional family values." [2]

<h3>Is it any wonder that these christian mullahs succeeded in doing this, at DOJ?:</h3>

Quote:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/17532.html
Was campaigning against voter fraud a Republican ploy?
By Greg Gordon | McClatchy Newspapers

* Posted on Sunday, July 1, 2007

........Rogers, a former general counsel to the New Mexico Republican Party and a candidate to replace Iglesias, is among a number of well-connected GOP partisans whose work with the legislative fund and a sister group played a significant role in the party's effort to retain control of Congress in the 2006 election.

That strategy, which presidential adviser Karl Rove alluded to in an April 2006 speech to the Republican National Lawyers Association, sought to scrutinize voter registration records, win passage of tougher ID laws and challenge the legitimacy of voters considered likely to vote Democratic.

McClatchy Newspapers has found that this election strategy was active on at least three fronts:

* Tax-exempt groups such as the American Center and <h3>the Lawyers Association</h3> were deployed in battleground states to press for restrictive ID laws and oversee balloting.

* The Justice Department's Civil Rights Division turned traditional voting rights enforcement upside down with legal policies that narrowed rather than protected the rights of minorities.

* The White House and the Justice Department encouraged selected U.S. attorneys to bring voter fraud prosecutions, despite studies showing that election fraud isn't a widespread problem.

Nowhere was the breadth of these actions more obvious than at the American Center for Voting Rights and its legislative fund.

Public records show that the two nonprofits were active in at least nine states. They hired high-priced lawyers to write court briefs, issued news releases declaring key cities "hot spots" for voter fraud and hired lobbyists in Missouri and Pennsylvania to win support for photo ID laws. In each of those states, the center released polls that it claimed found that minorities prefer tougher ID laws.

Armed with $1.5 million in combined funding, the two nonprofits attracted some powerful volunteers and a cadre of high-priced lawyers.

Of the 15 individuals affiliated with the two groups, at least seven are members of <h3>the Republican National Lawyers Association</h3>, and half a dozen have worked for either one Bush election campaign or for <h3>the Republican National Committee.</h3>

Alex Vogel, a former RNC lawyer whose consulting firm was paid $75,000 for several months' service as the center’s executive director, said the funding came from private donors, not from the Republican Party.

One target of the American Center was the liberal-leaning voter registration group called Project Vote, a GOP nemesis that registered 1.5 million voters in 2004 and 2006. The center trumpeted allegations that Project Vote's main contractor, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN), submitted phony registration forms to boost Democratic voting.

In a controversial move, the interim U.S. attorney in Kansas City announced indictments against four ACORN workers five days before the 2006 election, despite the fact that Justice Department policy discourages such action close to an election. Acorn officials had notified the federal officials when they noticed the doctored forms.

<h3>"Their job was to confuse the public about voter fraud and offer bogus solutions to the problem," said Michael Slater</h3>, the deputy director of Project Vote, "And like the Tobacco Institute, they relied on deception and faulty research to advance the interests of their clients."

Mark "Thor" Hearne, a St. Louis lawyer and former national counsel for President Bush's 2004 reelection campaign, is widely considered the driving force behind the organizations. Vogel described him as "clearly the one in charge."

<h3>Hearne, who also was a vice president and director of election operations for the Republican Lawyers Association</h3>, said he couldn't discuss the organizations because they're former clients.

But in an e-mail exchange, he defended the need for photo IDs. "Requiring a government-issued photo ID in order to vote as a safeguard against vote fraud and as a measure to increase public confidence in the fairness and honesty of our elections is not some Republican voter suppression effort," Hearne said.

Hearne called photo IDs "an important voice in election reform."

Hearne and Rogers appeared at separate hearings before the House Administration Committee last year in Ohio and New Mexico. They cited reports of thousands of dead people on voter registration rolls, fraudulent registrations and other election fraud schemes.

As proof, Hearne, offered a 28-page "investigative report" on Ohio events in the 2004 election, and then publicly sent a copy to the Justice Department, citing "substantial evidence to suggest potential criminal wrongdoing."

So far, no charges have been filed.

Earlier, in August 2005, the Legislative Fund issued a string of press releases naming five cities as the nation's top "hot spots" for voter fraud. Philadelphia was tagged as No. 1, followed by Milwaukee, Seattle, St. Louis and Cleveland.

With a push from the center's lobbyists, legislatures in Missouri and Pennsylvania passed photo ID laws last year. Missouri's law was thrown out by the state Supreme Court, and Democratic Gov. Edward Rendell vetoed the Pennsylvania bill.

In an interview with the federal Election Assistance Commission last year, two Pennsylvania officials said they knew of no instances of voter identity fraud or voter registration fraud in the state.

<h3>Amid the controversy, the American Center for Voting Rights shuttered its Internet site on St. Patrick's Day, and the two nonprofits appear to have vanished.

But their influence could linger.</h3>

One of the directors of the American Center, <h3>Cameron Quinn, who lists her membership in the Republican National Lawyers Association on her resume</h3>, was appointed last year as the voting counsel for the Justice Department’s Civil Rights Division.

The division <h2>is charged with policing elections and guarding against discrimination against minorities.</h2>

...and here's an example resume:

Quote:

http://www.jamesmadisoncenter.org/Do...BoppResume.pdf

JAMES BOPP, JR., ESQ.

CIVIC ACTIVITIES

March 22, 2007
Page 7

Indiana Coordinator:
Citizen Review Committee, International Women’s Year
Indiana Conference, Indianapolis, Indiana, July 16, 1977
National Conference, Houston, Texas, November 18, 1977
National Pro-family Coalition on the White House Conference on Families, 1980
Member:
National Institute of Family & Life Advocates, National Advisory Board, 1993 - Present
<h2>Council for National Policy</h2>

March 22, 2007
Page 9

Other Positions:
<h3>Republican National Lawyers Association
Board of Governors, 2002 - present</h3>
Advisory Council, 2004 - present
Republican Victory Committee, Chairman, 2000
National Republican Pro-life Committee, Inc.
Board of Directors, 1983 - 1991
Vice Chairman, 1984 - 1991
1984 National Republican Convention Committee
1980 National Republican Convention Committee
Presenter:
Republican National Lawyers Association, 2004 National Summer Election Law Seminar &
School, Milwaukee, Wisc., July 16-17, 2004
Indiana Republican State Committee, Congress of Counties, Indianapolis, IN, February 27, 2004
Indiana Chapter, Republican National Lawyers Association, Indianapolis, IN, February 19, 2004
Republican National Lawyers Association, National Summer Election School, Irvine, California,
August 8-9, 2003
Republican National Lawyers Association, 2003 National Conference, Washington, D.C., March
21, 2003
Republican National Lawyers Association, 2002 National Election Law School, San Antonio,
Texas, August 16-17, 2002
Republican National Committee, Midwest Leadership Conference, Springfield, Mo., September
11, 1993
Indiana Republican State Committee, Congress of Counties, Indianapolis, Indiana, February 10,

...and here is James Bopp ranting away in a column at townhall.com:
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/J...ngold-thompson

townhall.com is owned by Salem Comm. The two top officers of Salem Comm. are CNP members

Quote:

Stuart Epperson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Stuart W. Epperson is co-founder and chairman of Salem Communications, and a member of the conservative Council for National Policy ("CNP"). ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Epperson

In our example, James Bopp is a CNP member and "Republican National Lawyers Association
Board of Governors, 2002 - present"....he is a Republican national committee official:

Quote:

GOP.com | Republican National Committee :: State Details - IN
Mr. James Bopp Jr. Present. National Committeeman, Indiana Republican State ... Republican National Convention, 2000; RNC Standing Committee on Rules, 1997- ...
www.gop.com/States/LinkRedirect.aspx?state=IN

James Bopp, until recently was also general counsel of the NRLC:

Quote:

http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t...%3D48509&cid=0
National Right to Life Committee Defends Brownback's Talks With ...
Kaiser network.org, DC - Oct 30, 2007
The letter was sent after James Bopp -- general counsel for NRLC and a prominent legal advocate for conservative antiabortion groups -- criticized Brownback

The point????? The point is that it is impossible to tell where the christian fundamentalist propaganda machine ends, and the republican party begins.

James Bopp is on the board of governors of the republican lawyers assoc. that McClatchey News reported was behind an elaborate plot to disinform about voter fraud in order to take the DOJ civil rights enforcement division out of the business of protecting minority voting rights.
Bopp is also a member of the secretive CNP, the group that candidate GW Bush gave a secret speech to, in the same series of Oct., 1999 meetings that "FIRE" founder Kors spoke at, with his gushing praise of CNP members documented on CNP's own site.

<h3>"FIRE" and "reporter" Unruh, are part of a christian fundamentalist propaganda campaign. The republican party has fallen under the control of christian mullahs powerful enough to neutralize the DOJ. It is impossible to tell the secular republican political party from the christian fundamentalized party, as the same operators, James Bopp and the Tim LeHaye/Paul Weyrich founded CNP's members seem to wield a huge amount of power and influence. There is no "problem" in the residence halls at U. of Delaware. The problem is the religious fundamentalism that has overtaken one of the two political parties in our two party system. As in Iran, it is impossible to tell the mullahs from the secular political operatives, or actual issues, from propaganda. Hate crimes and malicious prosecution to discourage voting, are REAL problems, bullshit spewed by "FIRE". via Bob Unruh and worldnetdaily, and contrived accusations of pervasive voting fraud by minorities, are not.</h3>

filtherton · 11-03-2007, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matthew330

hehe......I really got a kick out of that,filterton.

Holy shit. Has hell frozen over, or what?

Thanks, btw.

Cynthetiq · 11-03-2007, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by host

"FIRE" and worldnetdaily are offensive and worthless to relevant discussion on this forum. "FIRE" is a function of CNP. the Council for National Policy. Rabid christian fundamentalist propaganda "Ops" do not lend to or further our discussions here.

Really? That's quite interesting since it seems that dogmatic approach is just what the OP and other posters have made clear. It's up to the reader to decide what opinions count and matter to them. If it's World Net Daily, The Sun, FIRE/CNP, Michelle Malkin, that's their point of view and how their opinion is formulated. It may not agree with host's increased reading capable cerebellum, but it is for some people fine for them.

I could easily make the same claim that your sources are offensive and worthless to the releven discussions on these forums and from my point of view feel and be perfectly justified. It still doesn't make it right.

Seems odd since religious schools have similar curriculum and indoctrinations. People will pick an choose their higher learning in a free market.

ratbastid · 11-03-2007, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Seems pretty clear....

School had a stupid policy, policy got out to general public, made it to internet sites like fark, school says 'oh crap, well lets put something out that says we are reviewing it but it was misunderstood and wait for it to go away.

Wow, you're not just cynical about the wrong things, you're gullible about the wrong things too!

Ustwo · 11-03-2007, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratbastid

Wow, you're not just cynical about the wrong things, you're gullible about the wrong things too!

And you have joined the tinfoil hat crowd, shame.

dksuddeth · 11-03-2007, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by host

<h2>Here is the part where I tell you that the OP contains no news reporting, because the source of the "article" is worldnetdaily, and the "organization" quoted in the article, "FIRE" is C-fucking-N-fucking-P, influenced.... i.e. rabidly conservative, politicized christian fundamentalist crap posing as "rights watchdog"!</h2>

Here's the speech by FIRE co-founder, Kors, as he gushes praise on the CNP audience. Lil Georgie was at the same 1999 CNP meeting, waiting to give his secret speech to these enemies of secular, open, democratic government:

Here is the immediate past president of "FIRE":

Worldnetdaily is not a news reporting source. How could it be, given this background:

<h2>And, here is the part where I show you that the "reporter" of the worldnetdaily article in this thread's OP is a delusional (thinking that he was going to be working for a "news" website), christian fundamentalist activist in his own right: </h2>

"FIRE" and worldnetdaily are offensive and worthless to relevant discussion on this forum. "FIRE" is a function of CNP. the Council for National Policy. Rabid christian fundamentalist propaganda "Ops" do not lend to or further our discussions here.

so let me see if I have this right.

anything from wnd, a christian, a right winger, a rabid conservative, or michelle malkin is a flat out bald faced lie that is intended to incense an audience and therefore should not only not be believed, but should be downright excoriated for passing themselves off as having any sort of valid opinion or logical reasoning. Do I have that right, host?

djtestudo · 11-03-2007, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filtherton

Man, if only there was some sort of "market" that would force colleges and universities to "compete" with one another for the business of students. I guess our only hope here is that someday, such a "marketplace" will emerge, and college students- no longer having no choice at all in where they attend college and by extension placing themselves at the complete whim of secular (gasp, possibly liberal) policies- will be able to attend any college that they can afford.

I, for one, am shocked, SHOCKED, that anyone would choose to attend a college where there is a rigorous curriculum that extends outside of the classroom. Why, who has ever heard of such a thing?? That's like communism multiplied by homosexuality to the power of sustainable agriculture.

Being forced to lessen one's ecological footprint? Egads, what's next? Forced bestiality?

Being forced to understand the importance of leading a sustainable lifestyle? Dear lord, next thing you know these poor students will be dancing.

And being forced to acknowledge the existence of systematic oppression and *choke* advocate for oppressed peoples? SWEET HOLY MOTHER OF CHRIST SOMEBODY CALL BOB JONES!!!!!!!!

You might have a point if this wasn't a major state university.

It's the same thing if they were requiring every student to attend church and take religion classes.

I do agree, though, that most people can choose what college to go to. The difference is that for a lot of kids, a state university isn't their "choice" but their only option.

The point of a public university is to be open to as many students, and therefore as many viewpoints, as possible.

ubertuber · 11-03-2007, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djtestudo

It's the same thing if they were requiring every student to attend church and take religion classes.

The point of a public university is to be open to as many students, and therefore as many viewpoints, as possible.

I'd take both of these points of view with a huge grain of salt. Firstly, ecology and social justice are not religion, and they're not really in the same category as religion -- because they aren't protected by the Bill of Rights. I'm not going to disagree that this program (as depicted) is some pretty strong ideological medicine that only represents the far extreme of a partisan spectrum, but that doesn't make it akin to the establishment of religion.

Secondly, the point of any university is patently NOT to be open to as many viewpoints as possible in the sense that you seem to mean. Universities are open to a multitude of perspectives, but that doesn't mean that they'll tolerate anti-semitism, racism, sexism, or other discriminatory practices. While they may have student groups on campus that are based on religious identification, that doesn't mean the biology department will be teaching intelligent design or creationism.

A more realistic objection (and just as powerful, IMO) is that education and indoctrination are NOT the same thing, and that mixing them up at an institution that receives public funding is inappropriate.

I worked in this field (higher education administration and even specifically residence life) as a full-time salaried professional. My experience doing so makes me extremely curious about this story... Many schools have programs in their residence halls that are intended to be educational, and the focus of almost all of them is on exposing students to points of view and people that they may not have encountered yet. Admittedly, social justice and diversity, which are typically "progressive" standards, are typically the core of these programs. And, as with any other thing in the world, people interpret the limits in different ways. Some are so aggressive about it that to them, the difference between exposing and indoctrinating is one of degree.

SO, based on my experience working, knowing these sort of people, and going to multiple professional conferences, I could actually believe that there is a large grain of truth to this story. Of course, it's hard to know what's going on here since only one side is really talking about its perspective. It would help (but in another way, is sort of telling) if the university would elaborate on how they feel their program has been mischaracterized.

ratbastid · 11-03-2007, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

And you have joined the tinfoil hat crowd, shame.

Hey, you're the one running wild with the "they're indoctrinating our children" hysteria.

Conservatives have a long history of mistrust of education. Very similar to the mistrust that organized religion has for education. The connection is: the more educated the public is, the harder it is to control them.

host · 11-03-2007, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dksuddeth

so let me see if I have this right.

anything from wnd, a christian, a right winger, a rabid conservative, or michelle malkin is a flat out bald faced lie that is intended to incense an audience and therefore should not only not be believed, but should be downright excoriated for passing themselves off as having any sort of valid opinion or logical reasoning. Do I have that right, host?

No...but it's all so steeped in christo-fascist, white christian supremacy-republican party propaganda that it is not worth the time or effort to sort out the "wheat from the chafe", IMO.

Here are more reasons why:

Does "FIRE" have CNP written all over it???

http://thefire.org/index.php/advisors/
Board of Advisors

.... T. Kenneth Cribb

T. Kenneth Cribb, Jr., is president of the Intercollegiate Studies Institute. Cribb was Assistant to the President for Domestic Affairs in the Reagan Administration, serving as President Reagan’s top advisor on domestic matters. Earlier in the administration he held the position of Counselor to the Attorney General. He also served as vice chairman of the Fulbright Foreign Scholarship Board from 1989 to 1992. Today he also is president of the Collegiate Network, an association of independent college newspapers; <h3>vice president of the Council for National Policy</h3>; and counselor to the Federalist Society for Law and Public Policy.

Peter Malkin

Peter L. Malkin is a partner in Wein & Malkin LLP, a real estate management firm in New York City.

http://www.harvardmagazine.com/on-line/030571.html
DANIEL PIPES AND "ISLAMISM"

Congratulations to author Janet Tassel and to Harvard Magazine for "Militant about 'Islamism'" (January-February, page 38), that sets forth the thesis of Daniel Pipes that militant Islam (Islamism) -- not Islam and not "terrorism" -- is the problem and that traditional, moderate Islam is the answer that needs maximum support and encouragement by the civilized world. While Harvard has thankfully avoided the "beyond the fringe" excesses of the departments of Middle East studies at Columbia and several other major universities and colleges, even at Harvard it is exceptional to see such a fair and balanced exposition of an honest and rational approach to defining the problem and seeking the intelligent solution.

Peter L. Malkin '55, J.D. '58
New York City

I did not find that this Malkin is related to Michelle, but he "buys" Daniel Pipes view of "the problem", and my research persuades me that Daniel Pipes, as was his father, is batshit crazy....

Michelle Malkin has no credibility, a common trait among the "luminaries" featured at CNP's townhall.com:

Quote:

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/PaulWeyrich

Founding the Heritage Foundation

In 1973, with the financial backing of Coors, Weyrich and Ed Feulner founded the Heritage Foundation as a think tank to counterbalance prevailing sentiment on taxation and regulation, which they considered to be anti-business. While the organization was at first only minimally influential, it has grown into one of the world's largest and most respected public policy research institutes and has been hugely influential in advancing conservative policies.

The following year, again with support from Coors, Weyrich founded the Committee for the Survival of a Free Congress (CSFC), an organization that trained and mobilized conservative activists, recruited conservative candidates, and raised funds for conservative causes.

Under Weyrich, the CSFC proved highly innovative. It was among the first grassroots organizations to raise funds extensively through direct mail campaigns. It also was one of the first organizations to tap into evangelical Christian churches as places to recruit and cultivate activists and support for social conservative causes. Indeed, they proved such a wellspring that, in 1977, Weyrich co-founded Christian Voice with Robert Grant and two years later founded with Jerry Falwell the Moral Majority. Weyrich coined the phrase "Moral Majority."[2]

Over the next two decades, Weyrich founded, co-founded, or held prominent roles in a number of other notable conservative organizations. Among them, he was founder of the American Legislative Exchange Council, an organization of state legislators; <h3>a co-founder of the Council for National Policy,</h3> a strategy-formulating organization for social conservatives; co-publisher of the magazine Conservative Digest; and national chairman of Coalitions for America, an association of conservative activist organizations. The CSFC, reorganized into the Free Congress Foundation (FCF), also remained active....

<h3>Malkin is a featured "columnist at townhall.com. townhall.com is a Salem Comm. media property. Salem is Council for National Policy media. CNP is christo-fascist subversion, and that is enough for me.....</h3>

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/MichelleMalkin

Quote:

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=116810
<h3>Why is GOP & Conservative "Message" Delivered by such a Tiny Media "Fringe"?</h3>

....Moving to the website of the party itself, the www.rnc.org homepage displays
in the upper right "Action Center" column, this link: Call Talk Radio

The names and telephone numbers of 33 conservative talk show hosts are displayed on the rnc.org page located at the preceding link.

Imus, and two convicted felons, G. Gordon Liddy, and Ollie North, foxnews correspondent and commentator, (his conviction for lying to congress was overturned on a technicality, on appeal.) are on that RNC "talk radio" list.

This "group" is syndicated by Salem Comm., owned by two CNP members, as I've posted about here:
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpos...45&postcount=2
NY Times coverage of CNP, Council for National Policy:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/25/us...gewanted=print

Hugh Hewitt Show
The Mike Gallagher Show
The Michael Medved Show
Bill Bennett's Morning in America
The Dennis Prager Show
Janet Parshall's America

Links to Salem's talk radio hosts info:
http://www.srnonline.com/
http://www.srnonline.com/talk/index..../shakehead.gif
<h2>Salem also owns</h2> www.townhall.com/columnists/ ....

Joseph Farah is worldnetdaily, and I already detailed the quality of his "journalism and editorializing as it related to Al Gore during the 2000 campaign, and since.

worldnetdaily's "reporter", Bob Unruh is a fundamentalist christian activist, here are more of his "news articles":

Quote:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=58424
Park Service restores 'God' at Washington Monument
Inscription declaring praise to Creator had been obscured in official display
Posted: October 30, 2007
4:30 p.m. Eastern

By Bob Unruh

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=58349
Now, God banished from Washington Monument
Historic cap engraving 'Laus Deo' out of sight
Posted: October 26, 2007
1:00 a.m. Eastern

By Bob Unruh
WorldNetDaily.com

The National Park Service has banished God from a key display of America's Christian heritage in Washington, and a California pastor who regularly leads teams of visitors to see markers of the nation's religious history wants Him restored. ...

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/articl...TICLE_ID=58295
SECRET HISTORY REVEALED
KKK's 1st targets were Republicans
Dems credited with starting group that attacked both blacks, whites
Posted: October 25, 2007
1:00 a.m. Eastern

By Bob Unruh
WorldNetDaily.com

The original targets of the Ku Klux Klan were Republicans, both black and white, according to a new television program and book, which describe how the Democrats started the KKK and for decades harassed the GOP with lynchings and threats.

An estimated 3,446 blacks and 1,297 whites died at the end of KKK ropes from 1882 to 1964.

The documentation has been assembled by David Barton of Wallbuilders and published in his book "Setting the Record Straight: American History in Black & White," which reveals that not only did the Democrats work hand-in-glove with the Ku Klux Klan for generations, they started the KKK and endorsed its mayhem. ....

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=58102
Arrest sparks rush on $1 million Gospel tracts
'The day that story broke people bought half a million'
Posted: October 13, 2007
1:00 a.m. Eastern

By Bob Unruh
WorldNetDaily.com

Million dollar Gospel tract

The Way of the Master, a Christian ministry run by evangelist Ray Comfort and former child actor Kirk Cameron, is reporting a sudden rush by people getting the million-dollar bill Gospel tracts its Living Water Publications produces.

Todd Friel, a spokesman at Way of the Master Radio, told WND that while "Gospel tracts usually turn out to be litter faster than a candy wrapper," the opposite is true with these Gospel messages.

Even an event such as the recent incident in Pittsburgh when police arrested a man who handed a $1 million bill tract to a grocery store cashier generates a way for the biblical message to be spread.

Officers in that case reported the bill originated with the Dallas-based ministry, but the man was arrested after he flew into a rage, slamming an electronic funds-transfer machine into a counter and reaching for a scanner gun after the clerk refused to accept the tract as money and the manager confiscated it......

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=58062
LAW OF THE LAND
Liberty Bell rangers halt minister's speech
Center honoring U.S. freedoms restricts message against abortion
Posted: October 10, 2007
1:00 a.m. Eastern

By Bob Unruh
WorldNetDaily.com

Liberty Bell in Philadelphia

A street preacher whose annual fall campaign often includes a stop in Philadelphia, the self-described "Birthplace of Liberty," has been arrested for speaking against abortion on public property outside the building housing the Liberty Bell.

The arrest of Michael Marcavage, chief of the Repent America ministry, was documented on video now available on YouTube.

Marcavage told WND he's awaiting information from the National Park Service authorities who arrested him on an appearance date in federal court.

The video shows Marcavage preaching to a crowd outside the Liberty Bell Center, which houses the Liberty Bell, the artifact from American history that rang to announce the first public reading of the Declaration of Independence and is inscribed with "Proclaim LIBERTY throughout all the Land unto all the inhabitants thereof," a biblical quotation from Leviticus 25:10.

"This is where we have been on a number of other occasions," Marcavage told WND. "This time we were ministering to people waiting in line to see the Liberty Bell, speaking on the message on the Bell, which has 'Proclaim liberty throughout the Land.'"

(Story continues below)

"We were speaking on the issue of abortion being tolerated in this nation, generally how abortion is simply a representation of how wicked our nation has become, and the need to repent for sin in our own lives," he said. He referenced the loss of liberty by the unborn who are aborted, he said.

While he was speaking, National Park Service rangers ordered him and others in his group to the other side of the building, where they said they had set up a "free speech zone," which was far away from any pedestrian traffic entering or leaving the building.

Calls to the National Park Service by WND seeking a comment on the issue were not returned.....

dksuddeth · 11-03-2007, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratbastid

Conservatives have a long history of mistrust of education. Very similar to the mistrust that organized religion has for education. The connection is: the more educated the public is, the harder it is to control them.

and liberals don't?

filtherton · 11-03-2007, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djtestudo

You might have a point if this wasn't a major state university.

It's the same thing if they were requiring every student to attend church and take religion classes.

I do agree, though, that most people can choose what college to go to. The difference is that for a lot of kids, a state university isn't their "choice" but their only option.

The point of a public university is to be open to as many students, and therefore as many viewpoints, as possible.

Well, it's like ubertuber said. They aren't advocating anything religious. I don't think that there is necessarily anything wrong with what they are doing- most colleges that i'm aware of make no secret about their efforts to instill a sense of civic responsibility in their student body. Many colleges in minnesota require their students to take a certain number of specific liberal arts classes, and have a student code of conduct. Obviously, the definition of civic responsibility isn't set in stone. As a state college they are accountable to the people of the state, not michelle malkin. Frankly, i weep for anyone who finds themselves in the unfortunate position of being accountable to michelle malkin.

I disagree that public universities should, in their official capacity, be open to as many viewpoints as possible. Going to a public university can be about exposing yourself to as many viewpoints as possible, but i don't put much responsibility for that on the school administrators.

And in any case, part of going to college is putting up with the pomposity of the people you don't agree with. Shit, that's an incredibly useful skill everywhere. Whenever i had complaints about my teachers when i was a kid, my folks would tell me to suck it up, because part of being successful in damn near anything is being able to put up with people who you don't get along with, and who you don't agree with having power over you. They told me to suck it up. I have little sympathy for someone complaining about the college experience making them uncomfortable- provided no rights have been violated.

Cynthetiq · 11-03-2007, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratbastid

Hey, you're the one running wild with the "they're indoctrinating our children" hysteria.

Conservatives have a long history of mistrust of education. Very similar to the mistrust that organized religion has for education. The connection is: the more educated the public is, the harder it is to control them.

Really? Yet some of the greatest thinkers have come from Catholic Universities

I don't think that the case at all, organized religion sects like Jesuits, Franciscans, Dominicans, Brothers of the Holy Cross all take great lengths to educate their charges. Islam also had many scholars that were quite educated. The same can be said for the Jewish religion as well. I think you are painting quite a broad stroke with that religion and more educated brush.

dksuddeth · 11-03-2007, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by host

No...but it's all so steeped in christo-fascist, white christian supremacy-republican party propaganda that it is not worth the time or effort to sort out the "wheat from the chafe", IMO.

.... T. Kenneth Cribb

T. Kenneth Cribb, Jr., is president of the Intercollegiate Studies Institute. Cribb was Assistant to the President for Domestic Affairs in the Reagan Administration, serving as President Reagan’s top advisor on domestic matters. Earlier in the administration he held the position of Counselor to the Attorney General. He also served as vice chairman of the Fulbright Foreign Scholarship Board from 1989 to 1992. Today he also is president of the Collegiate Network, an association of independent college newspapers; <h3>vice president of the Council for National Policy</h3>; and counselor to the Federalist Society for Law and Public Policy.

Peter Malkin

Peter L. Malkin is a partner in Wein & Malkin LLP, a real estate management firm in New York City.

http://www.harvardmagazine.com/on-line/030571.html
DANIEL PIPES AND "ISLAMISM"

Congratulations to author Janet Tassel and to Harvard Magazine for "Militant about 'Islamism'" (January-February, page 38), that sets forth the thesis of Daniel Pipes that militant Islam (Islamism) -- not Islam and not "terrorism" -- is the problem and that traditional, moderate Islam is the answer that needs maximum support and encouragement by the civilized world. While Harvard has thankfully avoided the "beyond the fringe" excesses of the departments of Middle East studies at Columbia and several other major universities and colleges, even at Harvard it is exceptional to see such a fair and balanced exposition of an honest and rational approach to defining the problem and seeking the intelligent solution.

Peter L. Malkin '55, J.D. '58
New York City

I did not find that this Malkin is related to Michelle, but he "buys" Daniel Pipes view of "the problem", and my research persuades me that Daniel Pipes, as was his father, is batshit crazy....

Michelle Malkin has no credibility, a common trait among the "luminaries" featured at CNP's townhall.com:

<h3>Malkin is a featured "columnist at townhall.com. townhall.com is a Salem Comm. media property. Salem is Council for National Policy media. CNP is christo-fascist subversion, and that is enough for me.....</h3>

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/MichelleMalkin

Joseph Farah is worldnetdaily, and I already detailed the quality of his "journalism and editorializing as it related to Al Gore during the 2000 campaign, and since.

worldnetdaily's "reporter", Bob Unruh is a fundamentalist christian activist, here are more of his "news articles":

ok, so you only have prejudices against christo fascists (whatever that entails), real estate holders, anyone that worked for reagan, townhall.com correspondents, and any WND journalists.

you do realize that the same could be said about you or any of the sources you cite as credible and believable, right?

If I were to post that all moveon.org columnists were batshiat crazy and that michael moore had zero credibility, or that cnn and msnbc were communistic news agencies who were bent on destroying personal freedoms and liberties, as well as stating that the UN, george soros, and the democratic party in general were nothing more than socialist ideologists bent on bushwacking the foolish and unsuspecting 'liberals' into believing that that they were for a classless society and only had your best interests at heart were in actuality a totalitarian regime bent on reforming society into a feudalist world with the elites and the serfs, and you are a serf.....would I be credible or batshiat crazy?

ratbastid · 11-03-2007, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

Really? Yet some of the greatest thinkers have come from Catholic Universities

I don't think that the case at all, organized religion sects like Jesuits, Franciscans, Dominicans, Brothers of the Holy Cross all take great lengths to educate their charges. Islam also had many scholars that were quite educated. The same can be said for the Jewish religion as well. I think you are painting quite a broad stroke with that religion and more educated brush.

Fair enough. Certainly the dominant flavor of American Christianity has a less than subtle disdain for higher education--the presence of so-called "Christian Universities" notwithstanding. It's all about those liberal hippie professors teaching our children to THINK...

host · 11-03-2007, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djtestudo

....The point of a public university is to be open to as many students, and therefore as many viewpoints, as possible.

The state of Delaware includes a 20 percent black population
http://www.statehealthfacts.org/prof...=6&cat=1&rgn=9

versus 12 percent nationally
http://www.statehealthfacts.org/prof...=1&cat=1&ind=6

Just 5 percent of first year students at U Delaware are black:
http://collegesearch.collegeboard.co...0&profileId=24

Quote:

Originally Posted by dksuddeth

ok, so you only have prejudices against christo fascists (whatever that entails), real estate holders, anyone that worked for reagan, townhall.com correspondents, and any WND journalists.

you do realize that the same could be said about you or any of the sources you cite as credible and believable, right?

If I were to post that all moveon.org columnists were batshiat crazy and that michael moore had zero credibility, or that cnn and msnbc were communistic news agencies who were bent on destroying personal freedoms and liberties, as well as stating that the UN, george soros, and the democratic party in general were nothing more than socialist ideologists bent on bushwacking the foolish and unsuspecting 'liberals' into believing that that they were for a classless society and only had your best interests at heart were in actuality a totalitarian regime bent on reforming society into a feudalist world with the elites and the serfs, and you are a serf.....would I be credible or batshiat crazy?

If any of the organizations you've mentioned were responsible for undermining the DOJ and harassing the minority voters the DOJ civil rights voting enforcement section was supposed to protect, and if they were part of an obsessive mega rich christian fundamentalist collective that has "given us" Blackwater, or a secret committtee that screens GOP presidential candidates who present the group with private speeches, as Bush himself did in San Antonio in Oct., 1999, or "delivered" a propaganda "talk radio" message via a national network of 1200 radio stations, and had literally taken over the political party platform and significant portions of the day to day operations of the executive branch and the pentagon policy....yeah, they would justly be labeled the same way by me...but they haven't, and are not organized, poised, or committed to do so, are they?

ubertuber · 11-03-2007, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by host

The state of Delaware includes a 20 percent black population
http://www.statehealthfacts.org/prof...=6&cat=1&rgn=9

versus 12 percent nationally
http://www.statehealthfacts.org/prof...=1&cat=1&ind=6

Just 5 percent of first year students at U Delaware are black:
http://collegesearch.collegeboard.co...0&profileId=24

If any of the organizations you've mentioned were responsible for undermining the DOJ and harassing the minority voters the DOJ civil rights voting enforcement section was supposed to protect, and if they were part of an obsessive mega rich christian fundamentalist collective that has "given us" Blackwater, or a secret committtee that screens GOP presidential candidates who present the group with private speeches, as Bush himself did in San Antonio in Oct., 1999, or "delivered" a propaganda "talk radio" message via a national network of 1200 radio stations, and had literally taken over the political party platform and significant portions of the day to day operations of the executive branch and the pentagon policy....yeah, they would justly be labeled the same way by me...but they haven't, and are not organized, poised, or committed to do so, are they?

... and?

The demographics of the state and the university don't tell us much about this program or what may have been right or wrong about it. You don't know if the lack of black students at UD is because admissions discriminates against them, because they don't apply, because they aren't academically qualified, or because those students prefer other schools. I'm not saying it's not a problem. I'm just saying we can't tell WHAT the problem IS without looking a lot closer.

And really, WHO reported this has little to do with WHAT HAPPENED. I get that you don't feel those are credible sources, but it says something to me that the university rolled over so quickly and doesn't want to discuss or defend themselves - and that it happened BEFORE the mainstream media got involved.

Not to mention, the complaints about the program, and the heightened awareness came from students. It's not as though CNP sought out offensive education programs and recruited students to publicize a "poster case". Students were upset about what they were being forced to do and complained. There's nothing particularly interesting or novel about that. I was called a fascist because students were asked to choose between workshops on things like career networking and disease prevention. That's just what students do - they complain and they organize. It's a good and natural thing too, because they are at an age when they ought to be caring about things that happen around them, and they ought to be learning how to leverage their opinions into action.

If this particular program crossed the line into indoctrination (which the university doesn't even really deny, at least not yet) then this is actually a great and relevant story to the people who fund the university. It's just a shame that more information isn't readily available.

roachboy · 11-03-2007, 09:56 AM

the op is nonsense.
a non-story in which the factoids adduced are interpreted through a thick veneer of hysteria. while ubertuber has taken care of the objections to this kind of program, and host the source for this particular tempest in a teapot in conservativeland, i am amused by a couple of things:

1. what opposing benign programs like this puts conservatives in the position of arguing against: conservatives now oppose sustainability (why?); the oppose tolerance of difference (why?); they oppose social justice (this we knew, but i doubt that conservatives like to array themselves against social justice)...they oppose programs that would tell undergraduates that being racist is perhaps not the best idea, they oppose the notion that homophobia is a problem.

so we could arrange a little picture of what conservatives support from this:
racism
homophobia
social injustice
non-sustainable practice
intolerance

well played.

btw i taught at delaware for a year. while that hardly make me an expert on the place, i nonetheless am familiar with it. if i remember correctly, it has a very high percentage of commuting students for a main state university. i mention this because it puts something of the dormitory programs into another perspective.

Ustwo · 11-03-2007, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratbastid

Hey, you're the one running wild with the "they're indoctrinating our children" hysteria.

Conservatives have a long history of mistrust of education. Very similar to the mistrust that organized religion has for education. The connection is: the more educated the public is, the harder it is to control them.

There you go again with the control thing. It seems to be a theme in your posting.

You keep confusing religious right with conservative. Thats like confusing every liberal with the socialist moonbats.

And by religious right I don't mean just people who are conservative and believe in god but people who have their religion as their main political issue.

My guess is you have very little exposure to conservatives in your life.

I'd also like to point out I didn't run with anything in this story. I simply pointed out how it went down. If you could be so kind as to point out where I complained about them indoctrinating our children in this thread please do so.

roachboy · 11-03-2007, 10:02 AM

"indoctrinating our children" by holding official little workshops during the source of which the students are told that to get on in a mixed population, things like being a racist are unacceptable?

this line of argument is absurd.

host · 11-03-2007, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dksuddeth

ok, so you only have prejudices against christo fascists (whatever that entails), real estate holders, anyone that worked for reagan, townhall.com correspondents, and any WND journalists.

you do realize that the same could be said about you or any of the sources you cite as credible and believable, right?

If I were to post that all moveon.org columnists were batshiat crazy and that michael moore had zero credibility, or that cnn and msnbc were communistic news agencies who were bent on destroying personal freedoms and liberties, as well as stating that the UN, george soros, and the democratic party in general were nothing more than socialist ideologists bent on bushwacking the foolish and unsuspecting 'liberals' into believing that that they were for a classless society and only had your best interests at heart were in actuality a totalitarian regime bent on reforming society into a feudalist world with the elites and the serfs, and you are a serf.....would I be credible or batshiat crazy?

The problem for your side of this argument is that everything I have posted is easily supported. CNP's Weyrich illustrates an at least 27 year old disinformation campaign that was so successful, it swallowed the credibility of the republican party, the white house, the Pentagon, and the Justice Dept.:

Quote:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...051201740.html
Air Force Removes Chaplain From Post
Officer Decried Evangelicals' Influence

By T.R. Reid
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, May 13, 2005; Page A04

DENVER, May 12 -- An Air Force chaplain who complained that evangelical Christians were trying to "subvert the system" by winning converts among cadets at the Air Force Academy was removed from administrative duties last week, just as the Pentagon began an in-depth study of alleged religious intolerance among cadets and commanders at the school.

"They fired me," said Capt. MeLinda Morton, a Lutheran minister who was removed as executive officer of the chaplain unit on May 4. "They said I should be angry about these outside groups who reported on the strident evangelicalism at the academy. The problem is, I agreed with those reports."....

Here's the co-founder of CNP the year before "the founding":

Quote:

http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=22222

The New Face of Jim Crow: Voter Suppression in America

Introduction
"I don't want everybody to vote. Elections are not won by a majority of the people. They never have been from the beginning of our country and they are not now. As a matter of fact, our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down."

<h2>— Radical Right strategist Paul Weyrich</h2>, at a 1980 training session for 15,000 conservative preachers in Dallas.

Quote:

http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/weyrich/050222
Protecting America's vote

<h2>Paul Weyrich</h2>
February 22, 2005

Despite the fact that we were told that things went well in the 2004 elections, <h2>there was an unprecedented amount of voter fraud in various parts of the country.</h2> Senator Jon Kyl (R-AZ.), the Chairman of the Republican Policy Committee and thus a Member of the Senate leadership, has issued a paper entitled "Putting an End to Voter Fraud" and its suggestions are surely worth considering. The Help America Vote Act, which was supposed to take care of a number of problems in the American election system when it was enacted in 2002, may have made matters worse. In any case, the Act comes up for renewal shortly and there are changes which ought to be made.

First, Congress should require that voters show a photo ID at the polls. I have to show a Photo ID at various stores. I even had to show a photo ID at a doctor's office. Senator Kyl says "without genuine, photographic identification, the avenues for manipulation and fraud by unscrupulous individuals will remain open to exploitation."

Second, Congress should examine the integrity of the voter registration process and the ongoing failure of states to maintain accurate voter lists. Senator Kyl points out that current federal laws governing registration list maintenance prevent local officials from taking a zero tolerance approach to voter fraud. In addition Kyl says that "Congress should make certain that non citizens are not illegally registering and voting: only Americans should decide the results of American elections."

Third, Congress should examine the extent to which early and absentee voting increases the likelihood of fraudulent votes being cast. The Arizona Senator said that alternative voting system should have at least as many fraud protection safeguards as are available on election day. He calls on Congress to examine how states conduct early and absentee voting (to) determine whether legislation is necessary to protect voters against vote dilution through others' fraud.

Kyl, the Policy Committee Chairman, says that no election related legislation should proceed in this Congress unless these issues receive a through examination. I could not agree more.....

Quote:

http://www.au.org/site/News2?page=Ne...qllvxdo1.app1b

Behind Closed Doors
Who Is The Council For National Policy And What Are They Up To? And Why Don’t They Want You To Know?

by Jeremy Leaming and Rob Boston

....How did this influential organization get its start? To find the answer, it’s necessary to go all the way back to 1981 and the early years of the Reagan presidency.

<h3>Excited by Reagan’s election, Tim LaHaye, Richard Viguerie, Weyrich</h3> and a number of far-right conservatives began meeting to discuss ways to maximize the power of the ultra-conservative movement and create an alternative to the more centrist Council on Foreign Relations. In mid May, about 50 of them met at the McLean, Va., home of Viguerie, owner of a conservative fund-raising company.

Viguerie had a knack for networking. Shortly before helping launch the CNP, Viguerie and Weyrich initiated the Moral Majority and tapped Falwell to run it, making the obscure Lynchburg pastor a major political figure overnight. Viguerie’s goal was to lead rural White voters in the South out of the Democratic Party and into the Republican Party by emphasizing divisive social issues such as abortion, gay rights and school prayer.

Back when the CNP was founded, it was a little less media shy. In the summer of 1981, Woody Jenkins, a former Louisiana state lawmaker who served as the group’s first executive director, told Newsweek bluntly, “One day before the end of this century, the Council will be so influential that no president, regardless of party or philosophy, will be able to ignore us or our concerns or shut us out of the highest levels of government.”

From the beginning, the CNP sought to merge two strains of far-right thought: the theocratic Religious Right with the low-tax, anti-government wing of the GOP. The theory was that the Religious Right would provide the grassroots activism and the muscle. The other faction would put up the money.

The CNP has always reflected this two-barreled approach. The group’s first president was LaHaye, then president of Family Life Seminars in El Cajon Calif. LaHaye, a fundamentalist Baptist preacher who went on in the 1990s to launch the popular “Left Behind” series of apocalyptic potboilers, was an early anti-gay crusader and frequent basher of public education and he still is today.

Alongside figures like LaHaye and leaders of the anti-abortion movement, the nascent CNP also included Joseph Coors, the wealthy beer magnate; Herbert and Nelson Bunker Hunt, two billionaire investors and energy company executives known for their advocacy of right-wing causes, and William Cies, another wealthy businessman.

Interestingly, the Hunts, Cies and LaHaye all were affiliated with the John Birch Society, the conspiracy-obsessed anti-communist group founded in 1959. LaHaye had lectured and conducted training seminars frequently for the Society during the 1960s and ’70s a time when the group was known for its campaign against the civil rights movement.

Bringing together the two strains of the far right gave the CNP enormous leverage. The group, for example, could pick a candidate for public office and ply him or her with individual donations and PAC money from its well-endowed, business wing.

The goals of the CNP, then, are similarly two-pronged. Activists like Noromgquist, who once said he wanted to shrink the federal government to a size where it could be drowned in a bathtub, are drawn to the group for its exaltation of unfettered capitalism, hostility toward social-service spending and low (or no) tax ideology.

Dramatically scaling back the size of the federal government and abolishing the last remnants of the New Deal may be one goal of the CNP, but many of the foot soldiers of the Religious Right sign on for a different crusade: a desire to remake America in a Christian fundamentalist image.

<h2>....and reality rears it's ugly head:</h2>

Quote:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/wa...pagewanted=all
<h2>In 5-Year Effort, Scant Evidence of Voter Fraud</h2>

By ERIC LIPTON and IAN URBINA
Published: April 12, 2007

Correction Appended

WASHINGTON, April 11 — Five years after the Bush administration began a crackdown on voter fraud, the Justice Department has turned up virtually no evidence of any organized effort to skew federal elections, according to court records and interviews.....

Quote:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/11/wa...=1&oref=slogin
April 11, 2007
Panel Said to Alter Finding on Voter Fraud
By IAN URBINA

WASHINGTON, April 10 — A federal panel responsible for conducting election research played down the findings of experts who concluded last year that there was little voter fraud around the nation, according to a review of the original report obtained by The New York Times.

Instead, the panel, the Election Assistance Commission, issued a report that said the pervasiveness of fraud was open to debate.

The revised version echoes complaints made by Republican politicians, who have long suggested that voter fraud is widespread and justifies the voter identification laws that have been passed in at least two dozen states.

Democrats say the threat is overstated and have opposed voter identification laws, which they say disenfranchise the poor, members of minority groups and the elderly, who are less likely to have photo IDs and are more likely to be Democrats.

Though the original report said that among experts “there is widespread but not unanimous agreement that there is little polling place fraud,” the final version of the report released to the public concluded in its executive summary that “there is a great deal of debate on the pervasiveness of fraud.”

The topic of voter fraud, usually defined as people misrepresenting themselves at the polls or improperly attempting to register voters, remains a lively division between the two parties. It has played a significant role in the current Congressional investigation into the Bush administration’s firing of eight United States attorneys, several of whom, documents now indicate, were dismissed for being insufficiently aggressive in pursuing voter fraud cases.

The report also addressed intimidation, which Democrats see as a more pervasive problem.

And two weeks ago, the panel faced criticism for refusing to release another report it commissioned concerning voter identification laws. That report, which was released after intense pressure from Congress, found that voter identification laws designed to fight fraud can reduce turnout, particularly among members of minorities. In releasing that report, which was conducted by a different set of scholars, the commission declined to endorse its findings, citing methodological concerns.

A number of election law experts, based on their own research, have concluded that the accusations regarding widespread fraud are unjustified. And in this case, one of the two experts hired to do the report was Job Serebrov, a Republican elections lawyer from Arkansas, who defended his research in an e-mail message obtained by The Times that was sent last October to Margaret Sims, a commission staff member.

“Tova and I worked hard to produce a correct, accurate and truthful report,” Mr. Serebrov wrote, referring to Tova Wang, a voting expert with liberal leanings from the Century Foundation and co-author of the report. “I could care less that the results are not what the more conservative members of my party wanted.”

He added: “Neither one of us was willing to conform results for political expediency.”

For contractual reasons, neither Ms. Wang nor Mr. Serebrov were at liberty to comment on their original report and the discrepancies with the final, edited version.

The original report on fraud cites “evidence of some continued outright intimidation and suppression” of voters by local officials, especially in some American Indian communities, while the final report says only that voter “intimidation is also a topic of some debate because there is little agreement concerning what constitutes actionable voter intimidation.”

<h3>The original report said most experts believe that “false registration forms have not resulted in polling place fraud,” but the final report cites “registration drives by nongovernmental groups as a source of fraud.”</h3>

Although Democrats accused the board of caving to political pressure, Donetta L. Davidson, the chairwoman of the commission, said that when the original report was submitted, the board’s legal and research staff decided there was not enough supporting data behind some of the claims. So, she said, the staff members revised the report and presented a final version in December for a vote by the commissioners.

“We were a small agency taking over a huge job,”

said Ms. Davidson click to show

These "folks" are a plague. While you downplay or dismiss the influence they wield and the damage that they do, they keep doing it....never missing a beat....

Ustwo · 11-03-2007, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roachboy

"indoctrinating our children" by holding official little workshops during the source of which the students are told that to get on in a mixed population, things like being a racist are unacceptable?

this line of argument is absurd.

If that was the concept at hand you would be correct, only it isn't.

The issue is were these workshops racist in their ideas and presumptions, and were students required to embrace and teach these racist ideas.

The only point of contention is were the issues as presented by the OP valid or were they fabricated. Based on just how quickly the university reacted in canceling the program for review I would guess there the claims were at least partially valid.

Seeing what was openly available on the campus web site, I see no reason to doubt that the original post is accurate. My guess is whoever was in charge of this at the university got a little to activist and a little less educational in their thinking. Being this was not related to a class but just for living in the dorms it seems a bit unreasonable if the students couldn't 'opt out'.

roachboy · 11-03-2007, 10:34 AM

you cant make any judgments about the "validity" of a claim from a unversity's reactions to adverse press, even in the whackjob form that this comes in.

addendum: this because universities tend to be to say the least jumpy about negative press. i have tons of stories about this kind of thing, some involving very prestigious schools which find themselves embroiled in very nasty situations thanks to the actions of some drunken student often.

host · 11-03-2007, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

There you go again with the control thing. It seems to be a theme in your posting.

<h3>You keep confusing religious right with conservative.</h3> Thats like confusing every liberal with the socialist moonbats.

And by religious right I don't mean just people who are conservative and believe in god but people who have their religion as their main political issue.

My guess is you have very little exposure to conservatives in your life.

<h3>I'd also like to point out I didn't run with anything in this story.</h3> I simply pointed out how it went down. If you could be so kind as to point out where I complained about them indoctrinating our children in this thread please do so.

You conveyed the impression that you took Bob Unruh's propaganda "Op" as news reporting:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

After this his the main stream in the last couple of days, they have been forced to back away from this policy.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/thefirecache/8585.html

Ah the power of the internet.

How the fuck can you, or anyone.... possibly tell the "difference" between religious right and conservatives?

Isn't this the "party of conservatives" website?:
http://www.gop.com/GetActive/CallTalkRadio.aspx

aren't many of the "radio personalities" listed on this GOP web page, employed by a "christian radio network", founded and managed by two CNP members and former officers? Wasn't CNP (Council for National Policy) founded by christian fundamentalist zealots?

Quote:

Originally Posted by host

<h3>Why is GOP & Conservative "Message" Delivered by such a Tiny Media "Fringe"?</h3>
This "group" is syndicated by Salem Comm., owned by two CNP members, as I've posted about here:
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpos...45&postcount=2
NY Times coverage of CNP, Council for National Policy:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/25/us...gewanted=print

Hugh Hewitt Show
The Mike Gallagher Show
The Michael Medved Show
Bill Bennett's Morning in America
The Dennis Prager Show
Janet Parshall's America

Links to Salem's talk radio hosts info:
http://www.srnonline.com/
http://www.srnonline.com/talk/index..../shakehead.gif
Salem also owns www.townhall.com/columnists/

Ustwo, I doubt that you are even aware how pervasive fundamentalist christian influence is in American conservative politics.

Why don't you post about how you separate conservative politics from religious fundamentalist propaganda and political psy-ops? Is townhall.com a political commentary site, or is it a media property owned/controlled by aggressively political christian fundamentalists who mix their religious and political agendas to an intensity so interwoven that they cannot be separated?

I can't tell what is secular conservative politics versus religiously motivated; which SRN talk radio mouths and townhall.com columnists are primarily religiously motivated or politically motivated, and I doubt that Stu Epperson and Ed Altzinger even want me to be able to discern the difference, if there even is any....so, how do you do it?

Ustwo · 11-03-2007, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roachboy

you cant make any judgments about the "validity" of a claim from a unversity's reactions to adverse press, even in the whackjob form that this comes in.

addendum: this because universities tend to be to say the least jumpy about negative press. i have tons of stories about this kind of thing, some involving very prestigious schools which find themselves embroiled in very nasty situations thanks to the actions of some drunken student often.

Neither of us know the truth behind it beyond the evidence presented.

Well lets pretend the OP was true.

Do you think the reaction unjustified?

host · 11-03-2007, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

If that was the concept at hand you would be correct, only it isn't.

....The only point of contention is were the issues as presented by the OP valid or were they fabricated. Based on just how quickly the university reacted in canceling the program for review I would guess there the claims were at least partially valid....

Ustwo...these bastards manipulated the reaction of the DOJ voting rights enforcement investigation and prosecution sections, with variants of this same "psy-Op"....marginalized voting rights enforcement in the entire U.S.

They're excellent at what they do. They've taken over the GOP, the executive branch, and much of DOD.

Why do you focus on the reaction of one smallish university to being targeted by a wing of this huge, zealot driven propaganda assault.....as if the University's reaction somehow makes Unruh's bullshit, legitimate?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Neither of us know the truth behind it beyond the evidence presented.

Well lets pretend the OP was true.

Do you think the reaction unjustified?

You still want to concentrate on the OP, as if it wasn't what I've documented it to be.

Why isn't your concern focused on what is actually going on? This is a small part of a much larger, outrageously undemocratic, unconstituional, and illegal subversion of law and law enforcement, and it's religiously driven politically motivated.

Why the denial....the total lack of concern over the real problem that this thread's OP showcases?

roachboy · 11-03-2007, 10:52 AM

nothing about the interpretation given to these programs seems to me accurate.
nothing at all. so i would say delaware should not have bothered to react to this. the "story" isnt worth a damn, the "interpretations" given in the far right press are lunacy (the fixation on the word "treatment" is particularly funny--working hard to make a benign social tolerance program seem like something stalinist.)

on the other hand--ok let's play your game, ustwo.
if the reports were to be confused with something not tendentious (you know, distorted by a partisan viewpoint so much that the factual content comes to be meaningless) what is your objection exactly?
to wit (quoting myself....ugh,)

Quote:

1. what opposing benign programs like this puts conservatives in the position of arguing against: conservatives now oppose sustainability (why?); the oppose tolerance of difference (why?); they oppose social justice (this we knew, but i doubt that conservatives like to array themselves against social justice)...they oppose programs that would tell undergraduates that being racist is perhaps not the best idea, they oppose the notion that homophobia is a problem.

so we could arrange a little picture of what conservatives support from this:
racism
homophobia
social injustice
non-sustainable practice
intolerance

btw: host has pretty effectively demolished the source.
the interpretations of the op piece were already taken apart by the good mister tuber above--i came in late to the thread and am only adding small things--the main arguments to be addressed here, really, are in host and ubertuber's posts...but we can play if you want. it'll get to the same thing.

Ustwo · 11-03-2007, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by host

How the fuck can you, or anyone.... possibly tell the "difference" between religious right and conservatives?

I have no doubt that you wouldn't know the difference.

You observe from a distance so far away from main stream thought, that differences are undecernable to you. Your center is radical, your radical is hypothetical.

You live in a world of elite enslavers and impoverished rebells. I live in a world of families, homes, jobs, parties, weddings and funerals, you know, real life.

roachboy · 11-03-2007, 11:22 AM

Quote:

You live in a world of elite enslavers and impoverished rebells. I live in a world of families, homes, jobs, parties, weddings and funerals, you know, real life.

this has to be the most ridiculous sentence i have read from you, ustwo.

so you have a monopoly on "real life"------and people who do not agree with your politics have no contact with it.

that's funny.

ubertuber · 11-03-2007, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Being this was not related to a class but just for living in the dorms it seems a bit unreasonable if the students couldn't 'opt out'.

Actually, this isn't a dorm, it's a residence hall. A dorm is a barracks for students. Schools don't really have them any more. Residence Halls support the educational mission of the school, and as such nearly all of them require some sort of educational component as a condition of living there. Opting out is not really even in the realm of consideration. The other side of this, of course, is that it is incumbent on the university to ensure that these educational programs/seminars are appropriate and defensible. THAT'S where there may be some traction with the student complaints.

This may sound like pontificating or something similarly useless in the real world, but difference is actually huge. The living environment is part of the learning environment of the school.

(As an aside, an ironic twist is that the versions of these programs for freshmen often go by the acronym FYRE, or First Year Residential Experience. A lot of schools like that one because it's catchy and they aren't really original enough to come up with their own label. I thought that was funny given the involvement of FIRE.)

And the reason I don't see host's posts as having much traction in this thread is that character assassination of the source is besides the point. This stuff happens. Sometimes, things happen that are over the line. We can't really know what the deal is without more reporting - perhaps it would be helpful if the "real" media sources could shed some light. The university's flaccid response makes me extremely curious to know what their original thinking in implementing the program.

11-02-2007, 05:12 PM	#2 (permalink)
waltert Insane	media sources often manipulate stories one way or another to accomplish their political desires, leaving out this or that...or doing whatever to bias the story. some are more biased than others... telling a half truth is the same as a lie in my book. anyway...some people need a slap to wake them up from their whitewashed suburban world.... however, the document "diversity facilitation training" by shakti butler is downright incendiary, and if anything, she only shoveled fuel on the fire for racism. as a student in the dorms myself, you have to realize that RA's have no real power, unless you're in violation of university rules, and they have no authority to force meetings on anyone. I imagine that most students in the dorms didnt show up for such meetings, as I can assure you that there would be protests on campus if it were REALLY mandatory. and most of the related documents are available on FIRE's website if you look Last edited by waltert; 11-02-2007 at 05:14 PM..

11-02-2007, 08:50 PM	#7 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Seems pretty clear.... School had a stupid policy, policy got out to general public, made it to internet sites like fark, school says 'oh crap, well lets put something out that says we are reviewing it but it was misunderstood and wait for it to go away. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

11-02-2007, 10:13 PM	#9 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	Man, if only there was some sort of "market" that would force colleges and universities to "compete" with one another for the business of students. I guess our only hope here is that someday, such a "marketplace" will emerge, and college students- no longer having no choice at all in where they attend college and by extension placing themselves at the complete whim of secular (gasp, possibly liberal) policies- will be able to attend any college that they can afford. I, for one, am shocked, SHOCKED, that anyone would choose to attend a college where there is a rigorous curriculum that extends outside of the classroom. Why, who has ever heard of such a thing?? That's like communism multiplied by homosexuality to the power of sustainable agriculture. Being forced to lessen one's ecological footprint? Egads, what's next? Forced bestiality? Being forced to understand the importance of leading a sustainable lifestyle? Dear lord, next thing you know these poor students will be dancing. And being forced to acknowledge the existence of systematic oppression and choke advocate for oppressed peoples? SWEET HOLY MOTHER OF CHRIST SOMEBODY CALL BOB JONES!!!!!!!! Last edited by filtherton; 11-02-2007 at 10:25 PM..

11-02-2007, 11:08 PM	#10 (permalink)
matthew330 Banned	hehe......I really got a kick out of that,filterton. Meanwhile, Host - how do you go from "hiding" your entire posts to opening with 24 point bold text. Yeah, that's all I have to offer. Last edited by matthew330; 11-02-2007 at 11:17 PM..

11-03-2007, 09:56 AM	#28 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	the op is nonsense. a non-story in which the factoids adduced are interpreted through a thick veneer of hysteria. while ubertuber has taken care of the objections to this kind of program, and host the source for this particular tempest in a teapot in conservativeland, i am amused by a couple of things: 1. what opposing benign programs like this puts conservatives in the position of arguing against: conservatives now oppose sustainability (why?); the oppose tolerance of difference (why?); they oppose social justice (this we knew, but i doubt that conservatives like to array themselves against social justice)...they oppose programs that would tell undergraduates that being racist is perhaps not the best idea, they oppose the notion that homophobia is a problem. so we could arrange a little picture of what conservatives support from this: racism homophobia social injustice non-sustainable practice intolerance well played. btw i taught at delaware for a year. while that hardly make me an expert on the place, i nonetheless am familiar with it. if i remember correctly, it has a very high percentage of commuting students for a main state university. i mention this because it puts something of the dormitory programs into another perspective. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 11-03-2007 at 10:01 AM..

11-02-2007, 06:08 PM	#4 (permalink)
37OHSSV Upright Location: Lesbian trapped in a man's body	His apology for a far lesser offense didn't help Don Imus.

11-02-2007, 07:45 PM	#6 (permalink)
ratbastid Darth Papa Location: Yonder	From everything that's been quoted AND the statement from the school, I think only one thing is crystal clear: there's absolutely NO TELLING what actually happened.

11-03-2007, 10:02 AM	#30 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	"indoctrinating our children" by holding official little workshops during the source of which the students are told that to get on in a mixed population, things like being a racist are unacceptable? this line of argument is absurd. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

11-03-2007, 10:34 AM	#33 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	you cant make any judgments about the "validity" of a claim from a unversity's reactions to adverse press, even in the whackjob form that this comes in. addendum: this because universities tend to be to say the least jumpy about negative press. i have tons of stories about this kind of thing, some involving very prestigious schools which find themselves embroiled in very nasty situations thanks to the actions of some drunken student often. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 11-03-2007 at 10:36 AM..