04-21-2007, 12:35 PM | #42 (permalink) | |
Thank You Jesus
Location: Twilight Zone
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If the president wants illegal immigration or the death penalty prosectuted by HIS US attorney and he does't get it, then it is within his right to fire them.
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Where is Darwin when ya need him? |
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04-21-2007, 02:55 PM | #45 (permalink) | |
Deja Moo
Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA
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"You can't ignore politics, no matter how much you'd like to." Molly Ivins - 1944-2007 |
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04-21-2007, 03:44 PM | #46 (permalink) | |
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You impress me as being a patriotic American.....but I posted detailed accounts of multiple incidents.....irrefutable evidence (you didn't....haven't ever refuted it....) that both the POTUS and the VP lied over and over.....since late 2002....Bush as recently as last Sept....and Cheney as recently as this month.....that Saddam's relationship with al Q'aida....and specifically with al Zarqawi....was justification for invading and occupying Iraq. I've showed that they both lied about that....and I posted on this thread the exchange between Gonzales and Sen. Schumer concerning the fact that US Attorney Carol Lam was fired without ever being told by anyone at DOJ what her performance deficiencies were..... Cqrol Lam prosecuted Randy Cunningham and she brought indictments qgainst CIA's #3 Dusty Foggo and his best friend and Cunningham briber Wilkes and cobriber Mitchell Wade. Cqrol Lam was...when she was fired.....investigating Jerry Lewis...the chairman of the congressional committee dealing with defense appropriations that Randy Cunningham served on.....when he was indicted.....details are here: www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/cats/jerry_lewis/ mike....so far....you've reacted by posting a scroll joke concerning the length of my last post....but no comment about it's damning material about the two leaders who I presume you defend in your last post..... I ask you and Gonzales the same question now.....was Cunningham acting like a traitor in a time of war? Why was it more important to impede Carol Lam's investigation of the full extent of the crimes of those associated with Cunningham's crimes...?. |
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04-22-2007, 02:26 PM | #47 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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Mr. Gonzales we all know you serve at the pleasure of the President, that you have stated that you will not resign unless it is at the request of the President, a President by the way not running for re-election, that you have violated no law, and that we are basically wasting everyone's time, was this whole thing some evil genious kinda scheme concocted by the White House to get Congress focus on a trivial matter rather than the serious business Congress has been entrusted to conduct?
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
04-22-2007, 03:44 PM | #48 (permalink) | |
Location: Washington DC
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ace.... Congress has been entrusted with many roles - the most important being enacting legsislation, authorizing the allocation and expenditure of funds to run the goverment AND overseeing the actions and administration of the executive branch (the foundation of our system of check and balances).
why dont you think Congress can multi-task? This 110th Congress has been very active in enacting new legislation. Why do you and Mike continue to believe that a law must be broken in order for Congress to fufill its oversight responsibility? Why do you believe its a trivial matter and a waste of time and money to ensure that the DoJ is managed competently and honestly? Here is what Norm Orstein of the American Enterprise Institute said about Congressional oversight: Quote:
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 04-22-2007 at 04:32 PM.. |
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04-22-2007, 05:09 PM | #50 (permalink) | |
Thank You Jesus
Location: Twilight Zone
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DC, I understand that it is Congress' responsibility to oversee, but Host continues to post as if Carol Lams firing was something illegal, and it was not, she was not prosecuting they way her EMPLOYERS want her to. Host this is a thread about the attorney general, not Bush and his VP, what they said about Iraq, or how the VP is hung like a horse. And Sen. Schumer is a jack ass, I have the displeasure of having to see his puss on my local news constantly. And to answer your questions, no Cunningham was not acting like a traitor, he was acting like a thief. Perhaps you haven't noticed but the investigation of Cunninghams cronies is still happening without the precious Lam.
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Where is Darwin when ya need him? |
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04-22-2007, 05:39 PM | #52 (permalink) | |
Thank You Jesus
Location: Twilight Zone
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And Will I said Host is posting AS IF Lams firing was illegal. And for the war being illegal all I'll say is UN resolution 1441.
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Where is Darwin when ya need him? Last edited by reconmike; 04-22-2007 at 05:45 PM.. |
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04-22-2007, 05:43 PM | #53 (permalink) | |||
Location: Washington DC
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If Bush had simply said, they are fired because I say so...there would have a short-lived firestorm. Its the lies, the conflicting stories, the faulty memories, etc and further examples of political influence in the judicial process by the WH that keep this alive. Quote:
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 04-22-2007 at 05:53 PM.. |
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04-22-2007, 05:57 PM | #54 (permalink) | |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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I know you said 'as if', which is a sign of a red herring and strawman. |
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04-22-2007, 10:33 PM | #55 (permalink) | ||||||
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I would ask General Gonzales why he not only authorized the firing of Randy Cunningham prosecutor Carol Lam, in view of the following, stated by the DOJ's own prosecutor, and did not demand that Cunningham be prosecuted for the crime of treason, and thus....will be allowed to draw a pension for his 21 year tenure of "service" to the US government....and I would ask Gonzales what he could say to the esteemed former Nuremberg prosecutor and senior expert on international law and the crime of pre-emptive war, to counter Ferencz's argument that implicates Gonzales in the same crimes against humanity with which Ferencz implicates Mr. Bush and Mr. Blair. I would specifically ask Gonzales for his reaction to this....from the article linked below, by Ben Ferencz....how did Gonzales, with his background as a Texas Judge and counsel to governor and then president Bush, presume to know that this expert was incorrect in her judgment....and for that matter, how do you presume to know this, too....reconmike?: Quote:
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04-23-2007, 05:59 AM | #56 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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When Repblicans had a majority they wasted the opportunity, now Democrats seem to be doing the same. I have no problem with the Congressional role of oversight, in this situation we knew early Gonzales "misspoke" or "lied", nothing new has come out or will come out. And even if it did, the President has the right to terminate the political appointments. This matter could have been investigated and handled out of the spot light in a matter of days by staff.
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
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04-23-2007, 06:10 AM | #57 (permalink) | ||
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I don't know about you (after reading your last post.....I really don't know about you......)....but I do my best to make and support my argument...... Do you think you've done that by posting; Quote:
and even folks in the VP's office who gave Cunningham briber, Mitchell Wade, his first government contract, "on board" the "train wreck" for republicans that is coming as a result of fired US Attorney, Carol Lam's prosecution of Randy Cunningham, and her subsequent investigations and indictment of CIA #3, Kyle Foggo.....with nothing posted to support your conclusion, you....ace, post that "there is nothing to see here".....case closed.... Uh-huh..... |
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04-23-2007, 06:17 AM | #58 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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I have the ablility to look at information and data and form my own views. I almost never blindly quote the views of others. As you know my ego is pretty big, generally I often think my analysis and the opinions I form are more logical an well thought-out than many of the experts you often rely on to support the views other experts have planted in your mind.
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
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04-23-2007, 06:26 AM | #59 (permalink) |
Location: Washington DC
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ace...these oversight hearings have revealed much more than just the lying and incompetence by Gonzales et al with the firings of the US Attorneys.
Most disturbing to me was the revelation that the Bush administration has completely dismantled the firewall between the WH and DOJ regarding pending criminal cases. Under Clinton, only 4 WH officials (Pres, VP, WH Counsel and WH Dep. Counsel) could speak or have contact with only 3 DOJ officials (AG, Asst AG, Dep, AG) regarding pending or potential criminal cases to help ensure that there was not undue political influence on those cases. It was revealed at the hearings that the current WH policy allows over 400 political hacks in the EOP (executive office of the pres) to have contact with more than 30 political appointess at DOJ. It is issues like this that come out in oversight hearings. I think it is important for the American people to know about such policy shifts that, IMO, should be questioned by anyone concerned with having safeguards against political influences in the judicial process.
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 04-23-2007 at 06:34 AM.. |
04-23-2007, 06:38 AM | #60 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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Just for kicks can you admit that Congress is milking this issue at least a little more than they need to? Would this issue make your list of the top 100 priorities for Congress?
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
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04-23-2007, 06:48 AM | #61 (permalink) |
Location: Washington DC
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Gonazles' response when this was revealed by Sen. Whitehouse was:
"I do recall being concerned about that as White House counsel.”If Congress hadnt "milked it," it is unlikely that this would have surfaced. I obviously think this is more serious than you or Gonzales (who, although "concerned", hasnt done anything about it since moving from WH counsel to AG). As far as my priorities list...I would have a list of "legislative priorities" and a list of "oversight" priorities, recognizing that Congress can and should do both. Oversight of the DOJ to ensure that our chief law enforcement agency is acting competently and credibly and without undue political influence would certainly be among my top 100 "oversight" priorities.
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 04-23-2007 at 07:07 AM.. |
04-23-2007, 07:06 AM | #62 (permalink) | |
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ace....my justification for "knowing" that this is the most important congressional investigation, needs to go no further than to comment on what has happened to the two lead prosecutors investigating Cunningham bribers Brett Wilkes, and Mitchell Wade..... Carol Lam was fired, and both Gonzales and his COS, Kyle Sampson, admit under oath, that she was never apprised, before she was fired for not "bringing enough" immigrations violations prosecutions, by any DOJ official. Deborah Yang, LA US Attorney, brought about the investigation of Jerry Lewis, Cunningham's superior on the congressional appropriations committee where Cunningham sold his information and influence of his office to Wilkes and Wade, and admitted doing so in his plea deal from Carol Lam....then resigned and is now working at the law firm that is defending Jerry Lewis, serving on the oversight committee there with Ted Olson, probably the most unscrupulous and rabidly partisan legal "fixer" in the senior level of republican "operatives".....a man reported to be under consideration by the Bush admin. to replace Gonzales.... This mess begs....no....it screams to be investigated.....isn't that right....Mr. Gonzales ??? |
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04-23-2007, 09:39 AM | #63 (permalink) | |||
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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Host, thats for you - to support the tilting thing - since credibility on an anonymous board is oh so important to me.
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." Last edited by aceventura3; 04-23-2007 at 09:45 AM.. |
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04-23-2007, 09:49 AM | #64 (permalink) |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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He should be tried for treason. All the evidence we need is the torture memo. While I agree that what Gonzales did with the US attorneys was absolutely wrong and was a clear indicator of his lackey status and his willingness to do anything to protect the monkey in the oval office, it's not the worst thing he's done by far.
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04-23-2007, 09:50 AM | #65 (permalink) | ||
Location: Washington DC
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We obviously differ on the value of Congressional oversight and what we see as legitimate versus "grandstanding and "milking" and "tilting".
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 04-23-2007 at 10:01 AM.. |
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04-23-2007, 10:10 AM | #67 (permalink) | |||
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
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04-23-2007, 10:44 AM | #69 (permalink) | |
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gonzales could/should have easily explained the situation. i agreed with the people who said we should "hear him out" but his convenient "forgetfulness" when confronted with questionable emails, memos, meeting information, etc., combined with several "misstatements" and overall poor management skills should be of concern to anyone with resonable standards for the notion of Justice (rememeber that is what he is supposed to represent). if this issue not a big deal, why does he obviously have something to hide? it seems as though he twists the truth when convenient ("I don't recall...") ... is a person lacking honesty someone we want leading the primary department of Law and Order in the country? or would you call him an honest man? |
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04-23-2007, 10:52 AM | #71 (permalink) | |||||||
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dc_dux, you and I post well documented arguments, complete with visuals, footnotes, links......and the response is that they "feel" that we are incorrect, and that they are "spot on"....but they offer nothing to enlighten us....mostly they just feed us our own quotes, with one sentence responses....not very convincing......
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Chertoff....Whitewater pitbull, the man who made the decision to prosecute Arthur Anderson over the Enron fraud.....the result was the destruction of an accounting firm that had employed 26,000....Chertoff got his conviction, it was overturned on appeal, the government did not retry Arthur Anderson....thanks to Chertoff's misguided prosecution, Anderson had ceased to exist.... ....and there's more....nepotism, nazism, NOLA....incompetence, lies......loquitur, tell us what you most admire about Michael Chertoff: Quote:
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04-23-2007, 11:46 AM | #72 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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Here is one - What good is going to come from all of this? I say nothing, therefore Congress is basically wasting time and energy. The country faces monumental issues that will change the course of history, yet Congress goes through this excercise.
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." Last edited by aceventura3; 04-23-2007 at 11:54 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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04-23-2007, 12:34 PM | #73 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: NYC
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Host, Chertoff was a highly respected Asst US Attorney in SDNY when I worked in the courthouse and was a highly respected US Attorney in NJ. He was a federal appeals judge on the Third Circuit. You do'nt like one of his decisions. Big whoop.
My point is that he has gravitas and is a serious guy. He is much more weighty Gonzalez. That was my whole point. Host, the only person you would ever accept for any position is a Democrat. |
04-23-2007, 02:08 PM | #74 (permalink) | ||
Location: Washington DC
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The Senate bill passed several weeks ago to overturn the provision in the Patriot Act inserted at the request of the DoJ and by the Repub conference committtee (Dems were excluded) on the process of appointing interim attorneys is not historic, but a positive outcome. Quote:
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 04-23-2007 at 02:19 PM.. |
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04-23-2007, 02:17 PM | #75 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
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04-23-2007, 02:24 PM | #76 (permalink) | ||
Location: Washington DC
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Show me the Dem revenge against Reagan or GHW Bush that approached the Repub Congress "grandstanding" and "milking" of Clinton? Will this new Congress be more like the Dems of the 80s or early 90s or the Repubs of the mid-late 90s....time will tell. I obviously have more confidence in the Dems than you. . (You might also take another look at the "Its both parties" thread and my link to the K Street Project and show me a Dem Congress that approached that level of corruption and influence peddling.) One thing is certain, they will not be as complacent and turning a blind eye to their oversight responsibility as the Repub Congress of 00-06..and I think that is good for the country...even if they resort to what some may call "grandstanding" to be heard above the right wing spinmeisters and bloggers.
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 04-23-2007 at 04:00 PM.. |
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04-23-2007, 04:30 PM | #77 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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I agree nothing I recall comes close to the Clinton affair (pardon the pun) and the way the Republican Congress handled it.
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
04-23-2007, 05:17 PM | #79 (permalink) |
Location: Washington DC
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ace...when you come up with something to match the hundreds of Repub oversight hearings and subpoenas of the Clinton administration beyond the "affair", we can have a serious "common sense" discussion....but I wont hold my breath.
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 04-23-2007 at 05:20 PM.. |
04-23-2007, 05:56 PM | #80 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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The readers of this exchange can determine who has been more objective. We have gotten off topic here and I am not sure I can add any value to Host's other thread.
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
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gonzales, grill |
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