04-19-2007, 10:25 AM | #1 (permalink) |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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If you could grill Gonzales ...
...what would you ask? As I've been listening to the Judiciary Committee questioning Attorney General/Torture Fiend Alberto Gonzales, I've been imagining questions that I would pose if I were on the Judiciary Committee.
"Mr. Gonzales, it seems, based on your testimony, that Mr. Sampson had the ability to overrule your authority and make decisions for you. Could you speak to the that fact, despite the fact that you had seniority over Mr. Sampson, who was the Chief of your staff?" "Mr. Gonzales, Mr. Sampson gave the following testimony to the Senate Judiciary Committee: 'I don't think the attorney general's statement that he was not involved in any discussions of U.S. attorney removals was accurate.' Can you speak, without using the word 'recall', to this?" "Mr. Gonzales, how can you run a department that relies on facts when you seem to lack the ability, after being given 25 days to gather your facts and think about what happened, to remember only a few important conversations?" "Mr. Gonzales, should each of the new attorneys have to go before the Congress for their conformation?" "Mr. Gonzales, can you speak to the justifications for allowing torture?" "Mr. Gonzales, which, to you, is more important: loyalty or the ability to do one's job?" "Mr. Gonzales, what do you think happened to all of those emails?" "Mr. Gonzales, when you resign later this week, who will you be covering for?" |
04-19-2007, 11:41 AM | #2 (permalink) | |
Banned
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General Gonzales.....why is it not reasonable to suspect that you and Scooter Libby, and Randy Cunningham have abetted treason or committed treaosnous acts, yourselves......during a "time of war", in view of Libby's convictions, and in view of this, today?:
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04-19-2007, 11:48 AM | #3 (permalink) |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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I was hoping you'd chime in, Host.
So far, I have to say that I'm impressed with many of the questions of the slime ball Gonzales. Right now, he's being asked who wrote the list, and Gonzales is giving his, "I don't recall" BS. He'll resign this week. |
04-19-2007, 01:01 PM | #4 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
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04-19-2007, 01:58 PM | #6 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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There are a few points hidden (too well) in my post. One - Gonzales should stop dancing around the issue and take responsibility. Two - Even in the worst case, he fired the attorneys for all the wrong reasons, did he actually violate the law in doing so? I not aware of any violation of the law. Three - The hearings are waste of time and resources. Even if Gonzales resigns, what is gained? Nothing in my opinion. Bush is going to replace him with the same kind of guy, there will be hearings, more grandstanding wasting more time and resources, etc. Four - Democrats only have two more years of Bush, why not focus on the future.
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
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04-19-2007, 02:09 PM | #7 (permalink) | ||||
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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04-19-2007, 02:41 PM | #8 (permalink) |
pigglet pigglet
Location: Locash
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i just like it when smarmy little fucks like gonzales get put through the reamer. fuck him. if it sends a message that you will get blasted sooner or later for being an asshole on my dollar, then i'm all for it. bush, that beady-eyed little bastard, likely would replace him with some other crap of his ilk. before that, it was what? harriette meyers? but in asfar as it goes, let him squirm.
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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style |
04-19-2007, 03:44 PM | #9 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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Just like Gonzales should be forthcoming so should Congress and everyone else. I think we know they are really doing this for the cameras and to get votes from the folks back home. Even Republicans have joined in, to show that they are "tough" "independent" and willing to take a stand against the Bush Administration - after a good reading of several opinion polls of course. I would just love for Gonzales to simply say, "yea- I fired them, so f-ing what! But I have no sense of drama. We going to have to hear them go on and on about the integrity of our judicial system, and how the trust of the American people has been lost, blah, blah, blah.
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
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04-19-2007, 05:21 PM | #12 (permalink) |
pigglet pigglet
Location: Locash
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ace,
the moons must be in some odd fucking alignment, because i've found myself agreeing with more than one of your more recent posts. this whole thing revolves, in an indirect fashion, on the disenfranchisement of 99% of american citizen's say in the government. how do you do that? exactly like they do it at publix. you have a name brand. you have a generic. guess what? same company makes 'em both. so these dicks that are in power will stay in power. its just a question of whose face will be on the tv. i'd like to say that will change. it could change. but it will take a hell of lot more americans getting pissed off for it to happen. or a coup d'etat. you know, whatever. if 95% of americans don't give a shit that they are selling their rights out hardcore right now; would they give a shit if a revolution cleanly snipped the admin out of place and replaced it? highly unlikely.
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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style |
04-20-2007, 05:13 AM | #13 (permalink) | |||
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This is an example of what passed for "checks and balances"....for "accountability", for the past six years.....until January, 2007: Quote:
This is an example of that "change", manifesting itself, in the US Senate, yesterday: Quote:
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04-20-2007, 06:16 AM | #15 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
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04-20-2007, 06:23 AM | #16 (permalink) |
pigglet pigglet
Location: Locash
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ace, i'd just like to point out that i don't think there's much factual basis for that last sentence. they may not speak in complex sentence structures, but that's entirely different from "meaning what you say."
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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style |
04-20-2007, 06:57 AM | #17 (permalink) | |
Illusionary
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Unfortunately, it seems a large portion of the citizenry of this country, find reason to question the majority of what the POTUS, and VP say in public. Much of this "doubt" is a direct result of experience from past....indescretions. Mr . Gonzalez is a victim of his position, and the distrust the administration garners in everything it says. It's likely none of this would even be on the table if people were comfortable believing what they were told. Last edited by tecoyah; 04-20-2007 at 09:14 AM.. Reason: clarification to tie into thread topic |
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04-20-2007, 07:06 AM | #18 (permalink) |
Asshole
Administrator
Location: Chicago
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Folks, can we please keep to the topic at hand? The last few posts haven't had a single commonality with the question posed.
Mr. Gonzales, you've obviously had trouble remembering meetings that have proven to be very important in hindsight. Would you please share with the committee exactly what you do recall being the reasons for these firings and exactly what was asked of you by both the White House and members of the Senate?
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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo Last edited by The_Jazz; 04-20-2007 at 07:11 AM.. |
04-20-2007, 07:39 AM | #19 (permalink) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
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ace......I read what I've quoted from you, above, and my reaction is that it is as if I am not even here....as if I have not already posted the following: Bush and Cheney are frequent liars, ace....on life and death matters concerning our national security: Quote:
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Posted May 2, 2006: http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpos...8&postcount=63 Posted May 2, 2006: http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpos...0&postcount=64 Posted June 26, 2006: http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpos...8&postcount=22 Posted Sept. 9, 2006: http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpos...93&postcount=7 Posted Sept. 15, 2006: http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpos...9&postcount=47 .....and this article: Quote:
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Note how the Bush administration reacted to Sen. Levn's damning September 8, 2006 statement: Quote:
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04-20-2007, 07:57 AM | #20 (permalink) |
Asshole
Administrator
Location: Chicago
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host, while you've post a lot of interesting information here, it is not on topic. This thread will not turn into another discussion of White House foreign policy success or failures - we are discussing the Department of Justice here and specifically Attorney General Gonzales.
Last chance to stay on topic, folks.
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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo |
04-20-2007, 08:30 AM | #22 (permalink) |
will always be an Alyson Hanniganite
Location: In the dust of the archives
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I really like Cracker Jacks, y'know. But, it seems to me that the prizes aren't anywhere near as cool as they used to be. And you don't get as much in a box anymore. What's up with that?
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"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt. |
04-20-2007, 09:27 AM | #24 (permalink) |
will always be an Alyson Hanniganite
Location: In the dust of the archives
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Why? Does he like Cracker Jacks, too?
Ooohh...you mean the original thread topic. Well...after wading through the thread, I'd forgotten that there even was a topic. Aahhh...I'm old...my mind wanders. I wonder, for example, why does a Reese's Peanut Butter Egg taste so much different from a regular Peanut Butter Cup?
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"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt. |
04-20-2007, 09:34 AM | #25 (permalink) |
Asshole
Administrator
Location: Chicago
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Bill,
You are getting old. The question is: why are Reese's Peanut Butter Eggs only sold once a year? No one cares about the taste so much as getting more. Mr. Gonzales, do you recall that answer? Since we're all apparently so hungry, perhaps this thread should be moved to Tilted Cooking....
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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo |
04-20-2007, 09:39 AM | #26 (permalink) | |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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Getting back.... ..."Mr. Gonzales, I cannot recall my question for you at this time. There may have been a question, but I cannot recall it as of this time. Recall, recall." "Mr. Gonzales, you have repeatedly said that the prosecutors were fired because of their job performance. Out of the 93 prosecutors that were fired, can you name one reason for any of them to have been fired?" |
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04-20-2007, 09:42 AM | #27 (permalink) |
spudly
Location: Ellay
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I don't know how to phrase this exactly, but I've got a question about Gonzales.
I'd appreciate an explanation of what the job standard for US Attorneys which allowed them to be fired was relative to the job standard for the Attorney General which would allow him to keep his job and enjoy the full confidence of the President and Vice President, who evidently regard this incident to be no more than a communications error. I'm aware that US Attorneys serve "at the pleasure of the President", but there's got to be some job description and evaluation that allows them to plan to do a good job. There has to be a way for them to know what to do if they want to keep their jobs. I'd like to know what their understanding of that something is, and how this is communicated to them. Similarly, I'd like to know what Alberto Gonzales's understanding of that something is in relation to his own job - what he is expected to do in order to be understood as having done a good job and what he would to to keep or lose that position. Most of all, I'd like to know how these things were communicatedto him.
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Cogito ergo spud -- I think, therefore I yam Last edited by ubertuber; 04-20-2007 at 09:45 AM.. |
04-20-2007, 10:04 AM | #28 (permalink) |
Asshole
Administrator
Location: Chicago
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Uber,
My understanding is that they have the same performance criteria as all political appointees. Basically they get to keep chugging along until they either find a better opportunity or piss someone off that's higher in the food chain than they are. For the US Attorneys that could include senators, congressmen, the AG, POTUS, VPOTUS, etc. For the AG, the list is pretty much POTUS and VPOTUS. Implied is all the people directly for these folks who have the actual individual's ear. I'll be dc_dux can give us a more comprehensive and better explained list, but this what I've got. The end result is that you can be absolutely incompetent but until either the press figures it out or you tick off the wrong person, you're fine. It's the magic of patronage.
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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo |
04-20-2007, 10:22 AM | #29 (permalink) |
Lover - Protector - Teacher
Location: Seattle, WA
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Mr. Gonzales - you seem to have difficulty remembering important things. Have you - I'm going to be quite frank, sir - have you been smoking the ganja? Do you habitually smoke marijuana cigarettes? Reefer? If you; that is to say.. if you doubt the relevancy of my question, I am asking in regards to your wretched memory. I've - to be quite honest - met adults who smoked enough marijuana to kill their entire brain.. and they seem to perceive past events in better clarity than you have, sir. How do you answer to the question of smoking the pot?
And did you, sir, in follow up.. inhale? Or did you not inhale?
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"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel Last edited by Jinn; 04-20-2007 at 10:25 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
04-20-2007, 11:08 AM | #30 (permalink) |
spudly
Location: Ellay
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The_Jazz:
I get that. I'm just thinking that supervisors typically indicate to their subordinates what it is that they ought to be doing. I'd like to know what indications the US Attorneys were given - explicitly and implicitly.
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Cogito ergo spud -- I think, therefore I yam |
04-20-2007, 04:03 PM | #31 (permalink) |
Deja Moo
Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA
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Mr. Gonzales, your testimony would appear to have given us two choices; as the Attorney General of the United States, you are either incompetent or corrupt. Is it possible that you are both?
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"You can't ignore politics, no matter how much you'd like to." Molly Ivins - 1944-2007 |
04-20-2007, 04:09 PM | #32 (permalink) | |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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04-20-2007, 05:37 PM | #34 (permalink) | |
Huggles, sir?
Location: Seattle
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seretogis - sieg heil perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames |
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04-20-2007, 07:45 PM | #35 (permalink) |
Thank You Jesus
Location: Twilight Zone
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General Gonzales, were you following the same procedures when firing the US attorneys as Bell did in 1978 for Jimma Carter?
Where these attorneys investigating Republicans like the attorneys where investigating democrats in 1978 and where they fired for that reason? And do you believe Carter and Bell were not grilled because the house and senate were controlled by democrats?
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Where is Darwin when ya need him? |
04-20-2007, 08:21 PM | #36 (permalink) |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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Maybe we should compare the good Gonzales did with the good Bell did. I think you'll find that a one sided exercise.
Meanwhile, do you have any further information on the Bell dismissals besides "Bell fired some US attorneys in 1978". |
04-21-2007, 08:19 AM | #37 (permalink) | ||
Thank You Jesus
Location: Twilight Zone
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Sure Will here ya go,
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And Will would you like to show me what good Bell did?
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Where is Darwin when ya need him? Last edited by reconmike; 04-21-2007 at 08:22 AM.. |
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04-21-2007, 08:24 AM | #38 (permalink) |
Asshole
Administrator
Location: Chicago
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And now I have a reason to love my high speed scroll wheel.
Just kidding. Interesting stuff Mike, but I still think that it's apples and oranges. For one thing, Carter was still breathing the fumes of Watergate.
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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo |
04-21-2007, 08:37 AM | #39 (permalink) |
Location: Washington DC
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Two important facts left out of your links, mike.
Griffin Bell did testify before the Senate Judiciary Committee about the firing of Marston. And of those US attorneys who left office between 1981 and 2006, most left volutarily. Only 10 left office involunarily (ie fired)....three were fired for improper or criminal,behavior. So seven were fired for questionable reasons in 25 years...and Bush fires 8 in one day. That difference, in and of itself, would raise reasonable questions....and add the conflicting and changing reasons given by both DOJ and the WH for the firing, and you have more justification for hearings. Again, it was not the firing...it was the lying after the fact, including impugning the reputations of those attorneys by saying the firings were performance related.
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 04-21-2007 at 08:56 AM.. |
04-21-2007, 12:05 PM | #40 (permalink) | |
Thank You Jesus
Location: Twilight Zone
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DC, Slick Willie fired ALL the US attorneys when he took office,
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Where is Darwin when ya need him? |
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gonzales, grill |
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