09-06-2006, 01:58 PM | #1 (permalink) |
Psycho
Location: venice beach, ca
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ok, whats going on with all the oil?
im surprised that i never hear an "oil update" in any news, print or tv. i wonder a lot of stuff like....
1) whats happening in iraqi oil fields? 2) whats haliburton up to there? 3) is there some kind of arrangement from the result of our occupation in the middle east? i find the dearth of info on something so important to be amazing... you'd think there'd be entire cable stations devoted to keeping us up to date. are there any news sites on the web that deal with this. is the silence on it particularly american?
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-my phobia drowned while i was gettin down. |
09-06-2006, 02:18 PM | #2 (permalink) | |
Artist of Life
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Oh, man. Good one. If they reported on such things the illusion would be dissolved. America is one of the main offenders, but they aren't the only one. Edit: Sorry. Most mainstream media outlets would be negatively effected by reporting such things. I won't go off on a rant, but they are not dependable sources on this kind of information. Free Speech TV would be a good place to go for that kind of news. Last edited by Ch'i; 09-06-2006 at 02:46 PM.. |
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09-06-2006, 02:42 PM | #3 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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nothing is wrong.
capitalism is rational. all is well. all is always necessarily well. corporations are nice. they like you, you like them. dont you feel better about gas prices and iraq and halliburton and everything else now? we like each other. let's have a nice big hug, shall we? this is how capitalism, which is necessarily rational, floats all boats. dont you feel better now? this is what the always rational workings of those necessarily rational markets looks like. doesnt it feel nice knowing how rational everything is? i do. i hope you do too. ok, now all the below are today's secret words. whenever anybody says any of the secret words, scream real loud. ok? yay capitalism! yay petroleum industry! yay american hyperconsumption of petroleum! yay everything! yay cronyism! yay bush administration! of course there is nothing to be done about oil, its price or anything else. this is the best of all possible worlds. yay capitalism! yay petroleum industry!
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
09-06-2006, 02:59 PM | #4 (permalink) |
All important elusive independent swing voter...
Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia
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There's a fair amount news about oil out there, usually in the business section (although I haven't seen much of Halliburton or Iraqi oil news).
Here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5318776.stm This is from yesteday or so. It was on CNN, BBC, and NPR. I don't know about any other news sources. Maybe they thought that a car chase or cat up a tree was more newsworthy. http://money.cnn.com/2006/09/06/mark...reut/index.htm Looks like oil is doing what it does - up and down, up and down. There's a lot of oil speculation type reports this time of year due to the end of the traditional driving season in the US and also the onset of hurricane season (which is feared to disrupt supplies). http://money.cnn.com/2006/09/06/news...reut/index.htm This one is interesting; sort of whistle-blowing-ish. As for Iraqi oil and Halliburton? Maybe there is nothing to report or maybe there is a conspiracy, I don't know. But maybe some digging will reveal info. Here are two different "news" reports for fair and balanced reporting on the 3 most recent news regarding Halliburton and oil in Iraq. Halliburton http://www.halliburton.com/default/m...ws_110505.html http://www.halliburton.com/about/community_0512c.jsp http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/news/kbraward.html And from Halliburton Watch http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...s/4150680.html http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/news/kbraward.html http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/news/hal.html |
09-06-2006, 03:27 PM | #5 (permalink) | |
Location: Washington DC
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These are the highlights of the oil and gas sector in the July 2006 Quarterly Report: * More than 95% of the sector’s allocation has been obligated, but less than 60% has been expended. * Oil production, which hovered around 2 million barrels per day (BPD) throughout 2005 and most of the first half of 2006, reached 2.5 million BPD in mid-June. In the two weeks following this peak, however, production decreased to 2.35 and 2.23 million BPD, respectively. * Exports averaged 1.6 million BPD throughout the quarter and closed at 1.67 million BPD for June, slightly above the end-state goal of 1.65 million BPD. * The volatile security situation and limited provisions for sustainment continue to be challenges for developing the sector. * Corruption threatens not only Iraq’s capacity to fund new capital investment, but also its ability to sustain and increase production. http://www.sigir.mil/sectors/oil.aspx The July report also notes that the cost of corruption in the overall reconstruction effort is estimated at $4 billion/year. http://www.sigir.mil/reports/quarter...s/default.aspx
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire |
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09-06-2006, 03:49 PM | #6 (permalink) | |||
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halliburton#2000s As far as I know, Haliburton still has notm apologized about the botched food and water problems the summer of 2005. Current information is sketchy at best. Quote:
Silence is policy. |
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09-06-2006, 04:02 PM | #7 (permalink) | |
Deja Moo
Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA
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Shell believes they have identified a major oil field in the Gulf of Mexico per today's newspaper.
And here is a lovely little article sent to me by a friend that deals with the ten worst war profiteers in Iraq. War Profiteers Numbers 8, 9 and 10 will be the big winners: Quote:
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09-06-2006, 05:12 PM | #8 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
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09-06-2006, 06:13 PM | #10 (permalink) | |
Tone.
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Well in that case, the next time I see you perhaps I should shoot you and take your wallet. You see, I've become accustomed to a certain lifestyle but the economy has forced me to cut back on that lifestyle. By your logic, it is therefore OK for me to steal whatever I need in order to maintain my former lifestyle. Are you starting to see the morality issue here? |
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09-06-2006, 06:20 PM | #11 (permalink) | |
Sauce Puppet
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Ding, ding, ding. This is probably why we never hear about it on the news. There's not really much good news to report in this sector, and unlike the bad news about deaths and such, when people here about oil, especially from a country we are occupying, they probably want to hear something good. I won't go on a rant about corruption in Iraq on this one... I'll either be too right, or absolutely wrong, and both situations would scare me (I'd rather be found wrong though). I'm sure most of that oil not being exported is going to our military installations to feed our war machines, but it would not surprise me if we are importing oil from halfway across the world to go to our military bases. Some of the other frivolous expenditures I saw while out there, this would not surprise me one bit. Thanks for the info dc_dux, and thanks for asking this question high-jinx, I've been curious about this myself. Oh, and when reading about Halliburton, also look up KBR (Kellog-Brown-and-Root, Root may be spelled differently), they hold most of the contracting positions out in Iraq, and this is where my bitching about corruption would start coming into play. I believe they are a subsidiary of Halliburton. |
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09-07-2006, 06:21 AM | #12 (permalink) | |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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You may have known, but why did this president's administration work so hard to sell Iraq as being part of 9/11, dangerous to us and having WMD's????? None of which were true. It's not up to those who want alternative fuels to "try to sell their ideas to the rest of us"..... It's up to the car companies, the oil companies and so on to RELEASE the patents they bought up, stole, extorted and so on. American car companies are going to die very painfully (and so is this country's economy) when the Japanese and other foreign car makers really push out the hybrids and electric cars. It'll be interesting to see how the leadership of this country will prevent massive imports and sales of hybrids. It will also be interesting to see those people who favor a "laissez faire" business government react to the government protection of the big oil companies. How will they react to the laws that are going to be passed that will prevent or push hybrids and electric cars into legal messes? How is this government going to react when they lose the taxes from oil? How are these big business neocons going to handle it when because of their own greed and refusal to change, the Japanese and others develop and start selling massive amounts of hybrids here? The oil companies will be obsolete, the tax money will dry up, the US car companies will be on their last legs and this country will be going into a Depression like we have never seen. Sound far fetched? How much of our nation depends on the auto industry, in one form or another? And those companies have how many hybrid ideas? Meanwhile, Toyota, Honda and soon Nissan and Mitsubishi have Hybrids that can not stay on the lot. They are moving very fast and there are waiting lists to buy them. But the US auto industry wants to blame the workers pensions, retirement benefits and so on. While if they had just 10 years ago started using those patents for non-gas cars, or worked on mass producing hybrids or other form of car they'd still be industry leaders and not dying dinosaurs blaming the workers.
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" |
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09-07-2006, 06:29 AM | #13 (permalink) |
Asshole
Administrator
Location: Chicago
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Why aren't we hearing about reconstruction of the oil industry in Iraq? Because frankly, no one really cares. Oh sure, we all want lower gas prices, which some of the hawks now conceed was an important reason we invaded in the first place, but really, other than the human interest angle, who cares about infrastructure construction? If it's going to inconvenience your commute, you care, but who here really wants to know about local construction projects. Yes, these particular projects happen to be important to our self-interests, but they are going to have no immediate impact on us so no one cares.
Show of hands for who wants regular updates on the progress of the repairs to the Alaskan pipeline that's going to have a much more immediate impact on all our lives? There will probably be a little blurb somewhere when it's done, but pipeline construction doesn't sell papers.
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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo |
09-07-2006, 09:03 AM | #14 (permalink) | ||||||||||
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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You are correct about WMD's. He did not have any. In hind-sight I guess if he actually had them, he would have used them - don't you agree. Quote:
I say - I am willing to go to war for the reasons stated. I support candidates who support my view. My candidates get elected and convince the American public, congress, UN, and others that it is o.k. to go to war. Then you, being against the war say - It is not up to you to sell your ideas on alternatives to war? If we let Islamic extremist control the Middle East, our lives would be dramtically different. I think in a negative way, therefore I am willing to fight. What do you think? And what are you willing to do? Quote:
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." Last edited by aceventura3; 09-07-2006 at 09:41 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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09-08-2006, 10:44 AM | #15 (permalink) | |||||||||
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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Ace, I am not trying to be a smartass because I like the points you have made and the way you made them. However, Saddam and Iran were enemies and had fought a few wars, I am assuming you hit the wrong letter. Ok, show me anything anywhere that shows Saddam's regime promoted terrorism before 9/11. He did not have anything to do with 9/11, nor did he train the terrorists nor did he have WMDs.... all 3 of those were used to sell this war, not the fact "it was to preserve the free market of oil" or whatever. So this administration flat out lied to the people and other nations about why they wanted war. If I recall, anyone that spoke out against the administration at the time were called unpatriotic, "didn't have the facts, because those weapons did exist...." and so on. As for your last sentence, yes, I do believe he would have used them. So in just saying that, the proof that the administration lied about the whole reason we went to war is sickening. Then there are the people who say "he tried to buy yellowcake".....really and who states this? The same people we believed that said Saddam had Anthrax, Mustard gas and all kinds of nasties. Then were proven and in their own ways admitted to lieing? Quote:
It wasn't a very "free speech" oriented congress then, just go back and read the posts, the papers and watch C-SPAN archives of how vicious that era was. Quote:
Iran was the country that needed to be invaded not Iraq. Now it is too late, and Iran has the power to be a far greater threat now than Saddam ever could have been. Quote:
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Yes, moving forward is always needed, however, you must also take into account the present. We're not training our workers to make the needed moves, our education system is shit and where the US was once the beacon of progression we are sorely lagging behind and becoming dinosaurs. Partly because our society became too lazy and partly because of greed from the top down. Quote:
It's sad that the attitude this last quote shows is what the biggest problem is. Management and the workers aren't working together to advance the companies anymore. It's sad, it's pathetic because of the greed, and it is suicidal to the economy and future of this nation.
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" |
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09-08-2006, 12:19 PM | #16 (permalink) | ||||||||
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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I don't recall Bush or anyone in his administration saying Saddam was directly involved in 9/11. They did state that there was an indirect connection, which is what i believe. Quote:
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When a person says Bush lied, and then Bush says by calling me a lier - you aid the enemy - you are scum. Then that person starts to cry - I say that person is a wimp (using a G rated term rather than the one I would really use). Basically they need to get over it and fight, defend their position, get tough, get mean, get mad-dog mean. I am tired of Democrats crying in the media about how Cheny hurt their feelings. The main reason I love Cheny and Rumsfeld so much is because they are two mean SOB's, and I don't like Gore and Kerry because they would be like jail-house girl friends of Cheny and Rumsfeld. Quote:
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__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
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09-08-2006, 02:44 PM | #17 (permalink) | |
Location: Washington DC
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And we have control of Afghanistan? Perhaps we would have if we did not abandon it prematurely, for the most part, in order to pursue the folly in Iraq.
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire |
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09-09-2006, 01:10 PM | #18 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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My biggest fear is the next President will undo what the Bush administration has masterfully orchestrated. People said he had no plan, I can see it pretty clearly - don't you? Iran sees what has happened. I think that they believe world opinion is against the US and that is why they want to speed up their nuclear weapons development. (Ooops, "nuclear power" development, they don't have enough oil to satisfy their electricity needs - right?)
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." Last edited by aceventura3; 09-09-2006 at 01:12 PM.. |
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09-09-2006, 03:01 PM | #19 (permalink) | |
Location: Washington DC
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We cant even control the insurgency and sectarian violence in Iraq, not to mention the reemerging presence of the Taliban in Afghanistan and you honestly believe we can "do what needs to be done" militarily as a result of our increasingly unpopular occupation of Iraq? What I see clearly is that this "masterful strategy" has only strengthened Iran's hand in the region and yes, has increasingly made the US the common enemy among the more militant muslims in the region and the world.
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire |
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09-09-2006, 06:15 PM | #20 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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Our primary mission was to overthrow Sadaam, lay a foundation for democracy, take the fight to the Islamic extremists, and begin the process of creating stability in the region.
__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
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09-09-2006, 06:37 PM | #21 (permalink) | |
Artist of Life
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Last edited by Ch'i; 09-11-2006 at 06:17 PM.. |
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09-09-2006, 06:48 PM | #22 (permalink) | |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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09-09-2006, 09:30 PM | #24 (permalink) | |
Location: Washington DC
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What a sad commentary. What you in effect are acknowledging is that Bush/Rumsefeld did not understand or plan for the fact that an urban war creates an insurgency, not to mention the fact that, as many Middle East experts outside the Administration predicted, we would open the door to sectarian viiolence in a power struggle created by the post-Saddam vaccum......and we paid and are continuing to pay the price.
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire |
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09-09-2006, 11:19 PM | #25 (permalink) | |||
Banned
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Army Brig. Gen. Mark Scheid's account is remarkably consistant with what has been reported about the "early retirement" of COS, Gen. Shinseki. It doen't seem that the reports about Rumsfeld overruling the reccomendations of troop strength of Gen. Shinseki, or the State Dept. post invasion occupation plan, has much influence on your opinion. Will this reporting change that? Will any reporting influence a revision of your opinion? My tired question....how do you <b>know</b>, what you know? Where does all that resolve....that "certainty"....come from? I, by no means, have it....I have to qualify everything that I suspect....with "stuff" like this: Quote:
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09-10-2006, 03:36 AM | #26 (permalink) |
Evil Priest: The Devil Made Me Do It!
Location: Southern England
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Overall, it does very much look as it the US govt truly believed that people would welcome them with love, and tey seem totally confused that this did not happen.
I find that Americans (and to a lesser extent many Europeans, Canadians, Australians etc) are so clear about the self evident advantages of their own way of life and politico-economic arangements that they (we) feel that the poor benighted souls around the world that have the misfortune to live in non-western style ways will breath a sigh of relief as soon as we arive and thank us for the privilege. Sadly, the people in the countries involved have a "live free or die" mentality. Just like the Americans had when they kicked out the British. As the largest historical collonial power in history the British have slightly more experience of how the "natives" do not welcome all the advancements that are offered to them, even though it is obvious to us that they would be better off accepting them. To me it beggars belief that anyone who has grown up in the USA, a country proud of its victory in an anti-collonial revolution, should be shocked in any way by the level of vehemence that the local population feel about their invasion and occupation. In the case of the 13 collonies it was "no taxation without representation" as their money was taken to make the regime of George (III Hanover) wealthy and secure. Is it any wonder that the people of Iraq, Afghanistan and Iran are unhappy about the reality (or prospect in the case of Iran) of their money being used to bring wealth and security to the regime of George (II Bush). As you sow, so shall you reap.
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09-10-2006, 10:39 AM | #27 (permalink) | ||
Artist of Life
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09-10-2006, 08:17 PM | #28 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." Last edited by aceventura3; 09-10-2006 at 08:29 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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09-10-2006, 08:58 PM | #29 (permalink) | |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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It was never my suggestion to completly ignore the Middle East, but as we can now see plainly, invasion was stupid. We've lost the souls of thousands of American soldiers, we have countless injured American soldiers, but more importantly we have tens to hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqi civilians. Why more importantly? Well, because they never made a commitment to join a military. They never signed up to risk their lives. They were born. They lived under tryany, trying to survive. Just as the power that tyrant was yielding was beginning to slip, missles from warships hundreds of miles out to sea came and destroyed lives. Was that taken into account in your "incurred costs that we can recover from"? We can't bring those people back from the dead, American or Iraqi, so I'd say that's something we can't recover. It's alright for us to stop being selfish for 5 seconds. It's alright to consider the harm we've done, and how to apologize for our mistakes. The best leaders in history understand that they are not Gods. They are the same as those they represent, and to err is human. I make mistakes and so do you. So does the president. If I'm right, that means that our future is broken on the rocks of ignorance. We have dug ourselves into a hole deeper than anyone else, ever. Our only safety net is other's dependence on us, and that won't last forever. The risk of invasion was and still is too high. |
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09-11-2006, 06:06 AM | #30 (permalink) | |
Location: Washington DC
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The problem is the simplistic black/white analysis and policy development process of the Bush administration, particularly in Iraq, at a cost of thousands of lives and billions of $$.
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire |
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09-11-2006, 06:18 PM | #31 (permalink) |
Artist of Life
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"We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done."
- Robert S. McNamara Last edited by Ch'i; 09-11-2006 at 06:21 PM.. |
09-12-2006, 05:53 AM | #32 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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I don't understand how you say you would not ignore the Middle East and then seem to totally rule out being willing to take military action. Negotiation (resolutions, sanctions, whatever) simply does not work without the threat of , and willingness to take military action. So tell me - what would you have done - starting with Iraq invading Kuwait???
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
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09-12-2006, 06:34 AM | #33 (permalink) | |
Psycho
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Invade Afganistan and do everything (all available resources and attention) to get Bin Laden and his band of merry men. NOT invade Iraq. If Bush/Cheny/Rumsfeld/Wolfie hadn't had a hard-on for Iraq, there was no reason to do it. Imagine that none of that trumped up WMD talk had existed... there's no way we have invaded. From there, who knows what would have happened? I'd like to think we could have done more damage to the baddies in Afganistan by putting our total resources on that issue. It seems like it would have made a difference in results. And perhaps used our stellar re-building skills to help with THAT country. I'm no expert on body counts, but it seems like our war has killed more Iraqis than Saddam would have. I know it's speculation, but is it 2:1? 3:1? What is the point at which we say "saddam would have been better"? Or is "freedom" worth any body count? Sure seems a better path, to me. And there were people on this very board advocating such a path at each juncture... Last edited by boatin; 09-12-2006 at 06:36 AM.. |
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09-12-2006, 06:52 AM | #34 (permalink) | |
Location: Washington DC
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What I and others have been saying is that before you go to war, you need to understand the geo-pollitics of such an invasion and plan for the worst possible outcome and not just the rosiest scenario ("we will be greeted as liberators") and reassess the worthiness of such an action.
The evidence is overwhelming that Bush/Rumsfeld had no understanding of the potential for an either an insugrency backlash or sectarian violence. The results? Quote:
The more important questions now are those raised in this article. How do we make the best of this f*ck up? I dont have the answers, other than its not "stay the course". The price of crude oil from 2001 - 2005 http://www.wtrg.com/oil_graphs/crudeoilprice01_05.gif Follow the red line from March 2003 and the invasion of Iraq. A direct corelation? Probably not. An influencing factor? Probably so, along with our deteroriating relationship with many Gulf states as a result of our invasion.
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 09-12-2006 at 07:19 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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09-12-2006, 12:39 PM | #35 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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You guys seem to ignore the fact that Iraq continually ignored UN mandates.
With that it seems you would have allowed him to re-establish his nuclear program (assuming he did not have one at the time we invaded). Once he re-established that proram would you have let him develop nuclear weapons? Would you let him attack his neighbors? would you let him control the Middle East? At what point would you use the military to stop his defiant activities? For the record - I never gave a crap about being greeted as liberators. i wanted Saddaam out of power. I wanted a military foothold in Iraq. The "liberators" arguement is a strawman argument, that is why I ignore it.
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
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09-12-2006, 02:24 PM | #37 (permalink) | |
Getting it.
Super Moderator
Location: Lion City
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"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke |
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09-12-2006, 02:32 PM | #38 (permalink) | |
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I'm curious to see if Russia will back-up Iran when/if the US attacks. Last edited by Ch'i; 09-12-2006 at 04:53 PM.. |
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09-12-2006, 08:14 PM | #39 (permalink) |
Location: Washington DC
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Of Bush's "axis of evil," Iraq posed the least threat. Iran , with its fundamentalist regime was a the time of our invasion of Iraq, and continues to be a much greater state supporter of terrorism and North Korea has expanded its nuclear capabiliites and has a far greater need and willingess to sell to terrorists than Saddam everdid.
Yet, Bush spends $300 billion and still counting, tens of thousands of dead and injured, and Iraq is more unstable than ever. Sorry, Ace....your analysis just doesnt wash by any rational standards. BTW, I agree the liberator argument doesnt mean crap. And I hope you would agree that we demonstrated no viable plan to deal with the post-Saddam Baathist insurgency or sectarian violence, resulting in a vast majority of Iraqis increasngly turning against the US as more and more civilians die....a hell of a way to "establish a military foothold".
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 09-12-2006 at 08:30 PM.. |
09-12-2006, 09:35 PM | #40 (permalink) | ||||||
Banned
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Ace...in the last day, in my post (#3 in the thread at this <a href="http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?p=2120124#post2120124">link<a/>) I tried to bring to every reader's attention, my observation that Mr. Cheney was reduced to reciting "untruths", on a network TV news broadcast, to justify the invasion and occupation of Iraq: Quote:
In that same post, Aceventura3, I then provided at least 16 excerpts (most of them with links...)from news reports, from sources as diverse as the "Economist", the Jerusalem Post, from NPR, and from Fox News, dated between early 2002 and April, 2003, that all reported that "the posion camp", at Kermal, was located in Kurdish controlled territory, in the nothern Iraq, "no fly zone" airspace, and was reported, in multiple news articles, to receive supplies of weapons and life sustaining supplies, from Iran, not Iraq, and that the camp was located on the Iran border....or articles that reported around this state of affairs: Quote:
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What else have you got? ....and is there anything that could be presented to you that would lessen your certainty that invading Iraq was a wise, or a justified decsion for president Bush to make? Last edited by host; 09-12-2006 at 09:46 PM.. |
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