tecoyah

May be a very well done fake......OR?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YcHHl_...elated&search=

Martian

According to the thread on the very same Youtube video, it's part of an ad for a camera phone.

Pity, eh?

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

holly9000

Well, if Martian doesn't know then I guess nobody does. Too bad-looked pretty realistic.

Willravel

Still, thousands of people a year say they've seen ufos. It make me skeptical, but hungry for proof.

Martian

Reason tells me that this is a joke riffing on my username, but my ego wants me to believe that it's because of my obviously unparalleled skills of deduction and reasoning.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

Baraka_Guru

What about all the people who say they've seen angels?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

jackdalton

I think seeing things like angels, god, or whatever are just vision. so it meens, they aren't actually there... So filming something like this is a non-sense to me.

Willravel

Touche. Still, I'd personally rather see proof for extra terrestrial intelligent life than angels, mostly because of my lifelong love affair with great science fiction. It sparks the imagination.

Martian

That is valid, and speaking person to person I share your fascination. However, even when we're on opposite sides of a debate you've always struck me as a man of reason and logic, which means I don't need to remind you that personal desire has no place in a discussion regarding proofs and probabilities. Discounting eyewitnesses (who are notoriously unreliable), there's no concrete proof that any sort of extraterrestrial beings have ever visited Earth, or even that any exist. It's sad but true.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

Willravel

Just because I'd like to think something exists hardly makes it so. I'm of the opinion that any scientist who says there is it's likely there is life out there is talking out of their ass. The Drake equation is a fallacy. Because we have no understanding about how life may form outside of the Earth, it's foolish to assume we can guess, with the incredibly limited knowledge we have now, as to any reasonable answer to the question of life on other planets or how much of said life may be intelligent.

So let me be clear: There is no evidence to suggest there is extraterrestrial life.

Baraka_Guru

Considering what we don't yet know about earth, I'm always amazed that the amount of time and energy people spend looking beyond our atmo. And considering earth isn't even a closed system, this means it may be a long time before we even know most of what there is to know of earth...scientifically speaking. Come on, quantum physics!

No, I suppose not. However, I do have at least some interest in evidence that would contribute to the probability of life outside of earth. Intelligent life is an entirely different matter, of course. The likelihood of there being anything other than human intelligence is quite small, indeed.

Some excellent points so far, willravel.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

liquidlight

Didn't you guys see Transformers?! All our technology is from ALIENS!!!!!

hehe On a more serious note, I'd reason that if a civilization could overcome the massive problems facing the possibility of interstellar travel then their technology would be sufficiently advanced to the point that we'd never detect them. Something along the line of "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke

(edited to get the quote right)

__________________
Halfway to hell and picking up speed.

raithneach

This video is part of an advert for the Sci Fi channel.

tecoyah

Next....

http://xoinks.com/mov/view_video.php...3c8272c8dcba92

pan6467

Really??????

Stanton Friedman gives a good debate:

http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/sfhome.html

But he's just out there to make money off of it. Forget the fact he was an accomplished nuclear physicist, he in 1967 decided to just throw it all away and go after the millions of dollars to be had in UFOs, in the late 60's and early 70's.

But then again, why do the Egyptians in their pyramids have drawings of aliens we call "grays".

http://netscientia.com/egypt.html

And of course these guys are all raving nuts looking for attentionall quotes are found here: http://netscientia.com/ufo_quotes.html along with many others.

(And for those Snopes fans who want to debunk it: http://www.snopes.com/quotes/macarthur.asp)

But it's all hooey and there is no proof, right?

Roswell was just a weather balloon, thousands of pictures, millions of eyewitnesses, hundreds of stories that appear, all the quotes in the Bible referring to aliens, the Egyptian, Mayans, and so on all have detailed pictures of "grays", men in spacesuits, all talk of other worlds and so on..... all hooey.

I just find it very small minded to debunk something just because there is "no proof" in your view.

Also very egotistical to believe as infinite as the universe is we are alone.... even worse is to believe that if there is life out they aren't advanced enough to fly the distances needed to come here.

I'm not saying we are special but perhaps we are of interest to them because we are developing into a potential threat. Who knows? But I believe and will forever believe.... because I have yet to see PROOF they don't exist.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Lokus

First off let me say that I do believe that there is intelligent life in the universe somewhere. Certainly there is life, even if it's not life as we know it but the universe is too vast not to contain other intelligent life. Of course, our universe also may just be a simulation in which case we may be the only intelligent virtual life as some sort of experiment, who knows.

Anyway Pan, I find your evidence utterly unconvincing. Just because someone is famous, doesn't give their opinion any more validity than Joe Schmoe who claims to have been anally probed. The only ones I would believe would be astronauts and the NASA guys. They say they believe but they have no evidence. Why is it that the aliens would show themselves to human eyes but not electronic sensors? Also, are there any other sources for the quotes listed above besides Gen. MacArthur? It's kind of funny that you would snopes him because I have no trouble believing that he said that. MacArthur was a bit of a loon, he repeatedly disobeyed orders and was convinced that a group of veterans lobbying for their bonus had been infiltrated by communists. Also I doubt the US had the capability to monitor or detect UFO's reliably in 1955 so MacArthur's position doesn't give him any more credibility than the average person claiming to see UFO's.

As for the Egyptian stuff, I only read through some of it because the constant five question marks after every sentence got on my nerves. The picture doesn't clearly show a gray on the drawing. Notice how all the people are in profile and in color while the alien is not. It's hardly definitive, more akin to people seeing the face of Jesus in their toast. If you want to see something, you will. Also the article says that Egyptians included pi to the 15th digit in the pyramids yet pi wasn't even discovered then. First off, pi was known approximately 4,000 years ago and there was even an Egyptian text with the value of pi. Secondly, using my own calculator and the original size of the pyramid in Egyptian cubits, pi is only accurate to 2 places. And I'm sure the Egyptians could make a perfectly square structure, they had a measuring system.

You say it's small minded to disbelieve something because you believe there's no proof. Well, how else are we supposed to believe in anything? Every idea out there has some sort of proof in someone's mind, that doesn't mean that I find the proof valid. If you go to a flat earther website, they have all kinds of justifications for what they believe. Does that mean that you or I are small minded because we dismiss it? I don't think so. I'm open to new views but in the end I'll decide what I do or don't believe in the absence of hard facts.

The real reason I don't believe in UFO's is why. Why would aliens who are so technologically advanced that they can travel interstellar distances bother with us? We aren't a threat to anyone except ourselves and the Earth. While we have the capability to leave our atmosphere, it is rudimentary at best and unlikely to improve in the near future. I would also assume that any society that is so technologically advanced would be socially and morally advanced as well and wouldn't abduct random humans for nefarious purposes. I just don't see it happening.

If I saw incontrovertible evidence or a UFO or aliens with my own eyes, I would change my mind. But to believe in something which can never be disproved means that you will never change your mind. Consider that for a second before you call others small minded or egotistical.

__________________
The black wind howls...

pan6467

In the end it comes down to belief. I believe because I feel there's "evidence" in the Bible, from NASA, from films, from drawings throughout history, and because no one can prove that UFOs don't exist. Others disbelieve because the "evidence" is sketchy and one can interpret the "evidence" any way they wish, thus I may see "grays" someone may see shadows and unclear markings, I may read in the Bible, an interview, etc and interpret things one way, someone else may interpret another (go figure).

I can say that I believe why would the "aliens" want to make themselves known when we are still so gung ho to kill each other. Yet, that doesn't mean they aren't interested and not watching. Or perhaps, we are an off breed and a lab example, and much like we treat our experiments they watch us closely. Perhaps, they have made themselves known and the leaders are slowly integrating the idea into society.

If they just "appear" and say "we come in peace", they may get killed, our religious foundations would crumble, our oil based economy would die (not that that is a bad thing but it should happen naturally and be phased out), etc.

So in the end, much like religion and "GOD" one can only base one's belief by faith.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Racnad

Let's clarify our language here. UFO stands for "Unidentified Flying Object." So do I beleive that people see flying objects they can't idenfity? Of course I do! (Ironically, if you're certain you've seen Starbuck flying her Viper in from the planet Caprica, you've identified it and it's not a UFO)

The question, "Are UFO's spacecraft flown by alien civilizations?" is an entirely different question. Here's some thoughts on this.

It is jumping to a conclusion to conclude that if it's not a bird, a plane or a helecopter that it must be an intersteller spaceship. You also have to consider that it might be a rare atmospheric phenomena that is not well understood. Although we've been on this planet a long time, it still gives us surprises.

Anyone who says there is or is not intelligent life elsewhere in the universe is speculating. We don't know, and any conclusions on that question depend on what assumptions you are making.

If intelligent life does exist it is very rare and technological civilizations are even more rare. The SETI Project has been looking for radiological evidence of alien civilization for for decades and has found nothing so far. While we can't conclude whether or not life exists elsewhere, we can conclude that this neighborhood of the galaxy looks nothing like the visions of Gene Roddenberry or George Lucas. (I'm intrigued by the universe of BSG - other than humans and Cylons no other intelligent life is known - this scenario is more likely.)

There has always been a small percentage of people who are fantasy-prone and beleive they are visited by and communicate with non-human beings. But the form these beings take depend on their world-view. In times gone by, people were visited by trolls, elves or faries. While religious people see angles, demons or dead pophets, most people aren't that religous, and no one beleives in faries. But most people for the past few decades do believe that aliens may exist and have seen science fiction TV and movies about them, so it is no coincidence that these people claim to have been visited by greys inspired by X-Files and Close Encounters of the Third Kind.

So my answer to "Are we being visited?" is "probably not."

pan6467

Ah, but SETI has found some non-"natural" sounds.

Plus SETI can only "see" so far and only "looks" for what we know.

If there are other, more intelligent civilizations out there, how do we know they haven't tried to communicate but we lack the technology to "hear" them?

Again, I believe the universe is teeming with life and it is very self serving to believe we are it, or the most intelligent or the only ones that know how to communicate.

If there are aliens and they can get here and are superior in technology, they could easily block out what signals there are in space.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Martian

The problem with this stance is that it's virtually impossible to prove a negative. I can't prove that extra-terrestrial life doesn't exist, nor can I prove that we haven't been visited by greys. The question for me, then, needs to be one of probability. And, well... let's talk astronomy.

Recently, a NASA probe made headlines. New Horizons completed a fly-by of Jupiter back in February en route to the Kuiper belt and Pluto-Charon. Using Jupiter's gravity for a boost, New Horizons was able to increase it's speed to just over 36 000 mph, making it the fastest spacecraft we've ever launched. For reference, if we were to express this speed as a mach number it would be roughly mach 47.

At that speed, New Horizons ought to reach the outer edges of our solar system around July of 2015, almost 8 years from now and approximately 9.5 years after launch.

The star nearest our own is Proxima Centauri. Proxima Centauri is a red dwarf star with absolutely no ability to support life as we understand it and no known planets; it's about 4.2 light years away. If we were to direct New Horizons, the fastest spacecraft we've ever launched, towards Proxima Centauri, it would get there in approximately 681 million years.

But maybe the greys are more advanced. I can dig that. Our fastest speed is roughly 0.000005% the speed of light. If we assume that our extra-solar amigos are advanced beyond anything we can begin to dream of and can accelerate their vehicles to, say, 1% the speed of light (and somehow ignore the relativistic effects) then it would only take them 42 years to get here from Proxima Centauri. Well, maybe they're really long lived; only, we've already established that life as we know it is incapable of existing at Proxima Centauri, since the star itself isn't hot enough and doesn't have any known planets, so they'd have to get there from somewhere else. Maybe they're from the Centauri system (which consists of Alpha Centauri, Beta Centauri and Proxima Centauri); if so, that'd be an amazing stroke of fortune. If not, then we'd have to look elsewhere. There are a handful of stars 20 light years or less from our own; if we assume that our alien friends can handle a 200 year trip without any real ill effects, then they are candidates. Except that there are only one or two of them that are capable of supporting life as we understand it (depending on how loose our criteria are). Outside of that, the distances and attendant times get very big, very quickly. And then, we have to ask the question of why would they trundle along in deep space for even 40 years to come and visit us who, speaking in galactic terms, have only just stuck our toe out on our own doorstep?

Therein lies the problem with the idea of extra-terrestrials coming to visit us, as I see it. People are quick to apply the balm of 'advanced technology' without really understanding what a cognitive leap it is. Space is big. Really big. Our galaxy is 100 000 light years across and is one of billions in the Universe. The nearest star is 4.2 light years away, which sounds like a small number. It looks a lot less small when we express it in miles and find that it comes to just over 24 000 000 000 000 (twenty-four trillion). We can then couple this with a few little informational nuggets from physics. For one, we know from the thoery of relativity that physics are the same all over for everyone. So our aliens need to obey the rules just like everyone else. We can then combine another piece of information provided by the same theory, which is that the closer we get to the speed of light, the more energy it takes to accelerate further (remember e=mc^2?); and thus, we know that even hitting 1% of the speed of light for anything more than a single particle would take more energy than we've generated in all of human history. Them's some pretty advanced aliens and they're going to an awful lot of trouble for us.

Mind, through all this I'm not saying it's impossible. I just don't see it as terribly likely and it's going to take more than a few blurry drawings and vague quotations to convince me, even if said quotations come from a host of former US Presidents.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

Racnad

I'm not aware of anything SETI has found where natural causes have been ruled out. Do you have a reference?

I've spoken with SETI, and contrary to what most people would think, there're not just looking for alien sports broadcasts. There main focus is bursts of radio energy that are by-products of major industrial activity.

If there are alien civilizations nearby then their techology is pre-industrial (there's no reason to say they don't exist, because we have no way of detecting them, plus the latest observations show that planets ARE common), or they don't use radio for communications at all (I can't imagine that) and their industry prodices no radio signals (again, hard to imagine).

That is a belief, but the facts needed to prove or disprove it are simply not available.

Proposing that aliens have the technology to evaporate radio signals hat have alread been emitted, without evaporating natural radio signals is a BIG leap. This is even more far-fetched than creationists who claim the the Earth is 6,000 years old and that light & radio signals that suggest a billion-years-old universe were created by God en-route in order to test our faith.

pan6467

Ah but even SETI admits there are "candidates"....... http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/Candidates/

And there is a whole message board at SETI@home that talks about the signals the vast majority even say it is a gamble and that SETI can only focus on a small part of the universe at a time, thus ET has to be "talking" at the same time we are focused there.

http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/f...d.php?id=36345

So again, it all runs on faith, as does everything in life when you come down to it. The strictest of scientists can't explain away all that is paranormal.... just as all that is claimed to be paranormal only a small percentage is truly unknown and without logical answer. But it still exists.

Science has tried to disprove the Bible and miracles from day one, yet..... it still doesn't shake one's faith. However, I have seen and know many scientists who have had their faiths shaken and stirred.

So who's right who's wrong???????? Only time will tell. You hold your beliefs, I'll hold mine.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Strange Famous

My grandfather was an ATC at a UK air base that had a really famous case in the early 80's (Rendlesham Forrest)

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

DaveOrion

I found this while doing a little research, interesting....http://www.csj.org/infoserv_articles...astronauts.htm

__________________
Syriana...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...

ottopilot

It was a Science Team training video featuring Ultra Man dropping the Beta Capsule near the WTC. They were being coached on optimal efficiency when saying things like "hi", "uh", "ohhhhh' and "ahhhhh"

Sun Tzu

Is there any view about Bob Lazar’s information? I guess to believe him means to believe undoubtedly that we have and are being visited.

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/VXG28QHBkZw"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/VXG28QHBkZw" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>




<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/tCvjVLP0CCY"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/tCvjVLP0CCY" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>


The mechanism behind the propulsion

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/J7Nn-vz-hv0"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/J7Nn-vz-hv0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>



NASA footage worth viewing

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__________________
To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

wheelhomies

maybe ufos are just people from the future coming to visit.

__________________

pan6467

I do think that based on how much footage is coming out, how governments are releasing info and how there is so much information and disinformation given on the topic, that perhaps, the leaders of the world are ready to admit and make contact.

These are strange times we live in, I think you have to be totally psychically dead not to feel something is happening and we are about to see something HUGE take place..

Ithought this link covered all the quotes I gave: http://netscientia.com/ufo_quotes.html : and I did include astronaut and NASA quotes..... there are many more on that site also.

Ah but we still do not have the technology to erect ANYTHING so perfect, and if we use only their technology and manpower.... there is NO way possible, we could build anything comparable. I read somewhere it would have had to have taken 1000's of men over decades working 24 hours a day to build the Great Pyramid. Yet it was built within the lifetime of the Pharaoh.

I don't care if you believe in UFOs or not.... the small mindedness, IMHO, is believing that life on Earth is all there is or that we are the most intelligent.

Why do we bother and disect ants, bacteria, etc.?

Hell not even 100 years ago, no one believed or even dreamt man would ever move faster than sound.... yet we do.

Before man figured out how to canoe he could only go as far as he swam (because he eventually ran into water, whether it was a lake or river or ocean) and he never thought he could cross it.

Then he built canoes and could oar and cross small bodies of water....

Then he realized if you added a lot of oars you could go farther and faster.

Then he conquered the wind and moved even faster and farther.

Then he moved into hot air balloons and rudimentary submarines.

Then airplanes could carry people across the ocean in a day.

Then jets could carry them over oceans in hours.

Now our shuttles can transverse oceans in minutes from space.

The point is each time mankind developed a faster, more effective way to travel. While the popular thought each time was "there is no way we can move faster or farther."

We have no idea what is next, or who out there has more.

Highly possible.

BTW Sun Tzu.... great clips.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Martian

I've seen this argument, but it's fallacious; the analogy doesn't hold up.

The thing about all of these prior advances is that none of them disobeyed the rules as we understood them. There's no real cognitive leap to adding another set of oars to a bireme. There's no great breakthrough required to raise a sail. It just took someone to think of these things. I'd even go so far to argue the the turbofan engines used in modern jets are an eventual logical extension of internal combustion engines. The science behind these things was in place long before they came into use; it just took someone to actually get there. Even breaking the sound barrier, which is commonly cited as being analogous to surpassing the speed of light, wasn't as revolutionary as it seemed. We already knew it was possible well before we actually achieved it, since relatively modern firearms had been managing it for at least a century prior.

Modern space vehicles are pushing the field of rocketry to it's limits. We can accelerate a vehicle to higher speeds by building bigger rockets with more thrust, but it's a case of diminishing returns. The vehicles get exponentially larger to the point where they soon become unfeasible. Our hypothetical aliens would need some new form of propulsion. The most common alternative I see offered is some form of device to manipulate gravity. If we assume for the sake of argument that these beings are using some understanding of physics that is far beyond our grasp in order to do so, we still run into a problem. Exponents play a role in gravity too; we know the force of gravity is inversely proportional to distance. What this means to our alien amigos is that the farther they get from a significant source of gravity, the less efficient their system will become. If they're making the trek from the Centauri system as I hypothesised above, they'd lose a lot of steam by the time they got two light years out. Space isn't as empty as most folks think and they would eventually slow down due to impacts with interstellar dust and other particles. So they're going to need something else and, frankly, we have no idea what they might use.

In other words, our aliens need an energy source far more efficient than anything we can dream up, a propulsion system beyond anything we can imagine, some way of dealing with relativistic effects during the trip and some way to survive the very long amount of time it would take (remember, even a trip from our closest neighbour at 1% the speed of light would take over 40 years). They'll also need some form of construction beyond our grasp, in order to build a vehicle capable of withstanding the stresses involved in such a journey. them's some pretty advanced little green men.

I don't buy the whole advanced technology explanation; I reckon that it's an argument you can only stretch so far before it becomes an almost theistic balm. We attribute these aliens with God-like powers, only instead of describing them as divine in nature we describe them as technological. The problem is, the aliens have to obey the same rules we do and the rules as we understand them now say that it's impossible for them to go faster than light and highly unlikely that they can even get close to light speed. This is one of the many problems I have with the UFO conspiracists.

But okay, I really ought to provide answers to what this stuff is. Surely there's something behind it?

Well, no. See, the human mind is an incredibly complex and marvelous thing. Often, we see what we want to see; where I see swamp gas or st. Elmo's fire, you see ufos. Where I see sleep paralysis or hallucinations, you see visits from little grey men. Only, if they're really aliens, they shouldn't be men at all; anyone with a basic grasp of the theory of evolution should be able to deduce that creatures evolving on another planet under different evolutionary pressures aren't terribly likely to end up with a morphology even close to our own.

None of those videos is particularly convincing. The kindest concession I can give is that these footage and pictures are things that could be UFO's, although there's really no way to be sure just by watching these. I'm inclined to say that the limitations of Youtube may have degraded the quality of the footage to the point where I'm unable to see whatever it is I'm supposed to be seeing.

A healthy dose of skepticism is a good thing. The UFO movement seems to think it's narrow minded to refuse to believe in something without concrete evidence; I would contest, on the other hand, that it's a bit naive to believe in something so seemingly unlikely without first demanding proof. Nobody to date has been able to provide any.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

Sun Tzu

I agree with everything this person stated except:

"As for Egypt, it has a long, continuous historical and archaeological record. The Egyptians left detailed accounts of their methods of architecture, and of moving massive stones and statues. Also, there are primitive early pyramids, botched jobs, quarries with tools still lying there, wall paintings of engineering methods, mathematical texts setting architectural problems for pyramid construction, and many other records of technology and culture. There are few mysteries concerning the purpose, construction, or properties of the pyramids — despite tons of rubbish produced by occultists and crackpots claiming the contrary in the face of all the evidence."

Not that Im stating that it was alien influence, I just wanted to comment that much of what is being said here is not accurate. I wont hijack the thread by going into details.

__________________
To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

Johnny Rotten

Actually, theoretical physics has addressed FTL travel before. When you express gravity as the presence of a curvature in space-time, you can alter the properties of that local space-time as you alter the local gravity. This requires a strong nuclear force, which is one of two gravitational forces. The SNF holds an atom together, while the "weak" nuclear force is what we experience at a macro level. The WNF is what keeps your feet firmly planted on the floor.

So. As you go up the periodic table, you encounter heaver and heavier elements. As you get to the ones at the top, you encounter atoms that, while unstable and not naturally occurring on Earth, have an SNF that actually extends beyond the range of their orbiting electrons. Theoretically, this allows you to interact with that force and amplify the SNF just like any other electromagentic source of energy, like a radio or TV signal.

And since the SNF is strong enough to bind atoms together, it exhibits some exotic properties when amplified. You can, theoretically, bring two points of space-time to a single point. You can also flip the force off and on like a switch.

This is all admittedly fringey stuff, but the research is there. What I can tell you is that relativistic speeds give cosmic dust the penetrative properties of high-speed torpedoes. So if anyone is visiting from another star system, they're certainly not getting here through linear means.

But if intelligent life is abundant, the chances of similar morphology increase. In fact, it's reasonable to deduce that the intelligent creatures with morphology close to our own would be the ones most interested in dropping by for a visit. To scout for resources and habitation, if nothing else. And they can judge this at interstellar distances, just by measuring the emitted spectra of the sun.

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Martian

Emphasis mine.

The problem with this is that these unstable atoms don't naturally occur anywhere. That's not specific to Earth. They can't occur naturally; even when we create them artificially they destabilize and break up within thousadnths of a second. Until we can figure out a way to stabilize them, hypothesizing what we could do with them is entirely useless.

I actually did make a concession to this, when I mentioned that they'd need a vessel capable of withstanding the stresses of interstellar travel. This is specifically what I was considering, since the stress of acceleration and deceleration can be mitigated by extending the time frame. Regardless, I think if we're going to assume that our advanced alien civilization is capable of accelerating to relativistic speeds in the first place, we can safely assume that they're probably capable of handling this problem as well.

You're basing this entirely on an unsupported assumption. We have no evidence that intelligent life is abundant, so any line of reasoning based on that is idle conjecture.

Also, stellar spectrometry only reveals information about the star in question and not it's orbiting planets. We can use that information to deduce what may be there, but can say nothing conclusive about what is there.

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I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
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Datalife2

If this stuff was true it would be on the news instead of crap about britney loser spears.

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Sun Tzu

You can really take your pick from all the news clips from around the world. Then again, it all boils down to if you even believe the news half the time. I saw a FOX news helicopter pilot state this was flares the second time they appeared. That was a complete crock of shit just like the guy who made that statement. *That it was flares

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DaveOrion

Hypothesizing about anything is never useless, thats how science evolves. Some theories simply aren't fully testable. Which isn't necessarily a problem with the theory, but a problem with our ability to properly test those assumptions. In the future new technologies may bring about better testing procedures & with ongoing human evolution we may gain the ability to perceive the universe from a higher perspective.

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Ustwo

Looks accurate to me, please start another thread if you like

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Sun Tzu

It was a mistake on my part to have included the entire text. The problem with the statement is there are obvious truths mixed in with statements on topics that are still being debated.

Yes Egypt, does has a long, continuous historical and archaeological record. Yes their are primative pyramids and a few "botched jobs", and they had many other records of technology (including the records we will never see unfortunately when the Library in Alexandria was destroyed).

Upon first reading the statement I had the impression that the person was saying that the methods used to actually build the Pyramids are completely agreed upon and common knowledge; essentially facts.

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To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

Johnny Rotten

Well, I did say "if intelligent life is abundant." And the rest is deduction from that statement. If X is true, then possibly Y.

Yes, but by studying the emissions of the star, you know what kind of radiation it's giving off, and in what magnitude. If it's a brown dwarf or a quasar, the chance of intelligent life evolving or surviving in that system is low. And if life is sustained, it's not likely to be compatible with our methods of communication. Yes, I don't know for sure, but there are some obvious likelihoods here.

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"The idea that money doesn't buy you happiness is a lie put about by the rich, to stop the poor from killing them." -- Michael Caine

RonRyan85

Seems like with so many people running around with video cameras,
cell phone cameras and still cameras...there should be more pictures
of UFOs that contain better details. There are NASA test flight films,
gun camera films and the film sent to Washington (Pentagon?) or to
Wright-Patterson AFB? Open up all the film storage vaults and let us
see what 's in there. We won't go crazy and demand that the whole
darn GOVERNMENT be impeached for keeping the UFO problem secret
for over 60 YEARS!

MSD

Discovery or one of its subsidiaries overlaid a daytime picture of the area shown in the video onto the video, and it's not debatable that the lights disappear behind the mountains/hills in the background. They presented enough video and photo evidence to convince me beyond a reasonable doubt that the lights in the video are consistent with what flares would look like at that distance. I consider that video debunked. On what are you basing your assertion that the flare explanation is a crock of shit?