adding power windows to a car w/ manual ones - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

nuggetman · 05-15-2003, 03:09 AM

My Saturn has manual windows and I'd like to add power... since it would be about $200/window professionally, I'd like to do it myself using parts from a junkyard... can someone point me to instructions or general info on how to do this?

billege · 05-15-2003, 05:51 AM

I'm going to warn you, this will be a pain in the ass. Have you ever worked inside a door? If not, you have no idea what you're up to.

They have no space to work, you can't see what exactly you're doing all the time, the tool you want to use won't quite fit, ever.

We're talking a major pain in the ass.

I know this because I have replaced window motors, and power door lock motors in: an 81 Chrysler Imperial, 92 Lincoln Mark VII, 90 Ford Crown Vic, 87 Buick SkylarK(I think it was a skylark).

First thing you need to know is what parts will be required, and what you have already. Best way to do that is to get the manufacturer's shop manual for the car. That'll run you $50, at least. I've paid $85 foe one, so don't think it's going to be cheap. Maybe the parts counter at a local dealer will let you borrow one, or help make you a parts list.

After you've got your parts list, you need the parts. So now you go to a junkyard and pay a lot more than you'll think for the parts. Hopefully, you have the choice of them pulling the parts, which isn't usually free, or you do it. If you do it, it sure as hell will be your LABOR saving you time. The brackets for the motors are usually riveted to the door, bring a drill.

Now that you've got all the parts, you get to spend (for this job) 4 or 5 hours inside the fricken doors. That's assuming you're not a good mechanic. I figure since you had to ask this question, you don't know all that much. Maybe I'm wrong, and I don't mean it to insult you, we all knew shit when we started. That goes for everything in life.

So, after you've put in about $200 bucks, and a shit load of time, plus skinned knuckles (which you WILL get in a door) then you've got your power windows.

OHHHH yeah, we didn't talk about wiring.

If the car is prewired, and I mean wired already into the door with power for the motor, and the interior console has the other end of those wires for the switches, then you're okay. If the car is NOT already wired, you are in for some fun. Ever take a dash apart? You don't want to.

I could be seriously overstating. Maybe you just need motors, brackets, and switches. That might be okay. Either way, start at a dealership that will help you get the parts list.

Good luck. Remember, sometimes there is a reason it's $200/window.

shakran · 05-15-2003, 06:13 AM

Why in the world would you need to take a dash apart for power windows? You run the wires from the door through the speaker wire channel. Then you just tuck the wires under the dash and secure them to whatever's available with zipties. Tie it in to one of the fuses (cig. lighter fuse works well since there's rarely a big load on it) and run the return wires back the same way you ran the first set. You put the controls in the door panel, not the center console.

Your biggest problem will be that you'll now have a big ugly hole where the window crank used to be. If your saturn was available with power windows, you'll want to get the door panel from a car that had them - - then you won't have the hole and you'll have a place to mount the switches without it looking weird.

There are power window kits out there that make the job easier as they are meant to be installed without having to rivet/weld etc.

Also, once you take the door panel off, you have access to the whole inside of the door, so you'll be fine. Just be careful of the spring on the window (lotta doors have them to reduce roll-up effort) . .If that thing breaks loose, it will remove whatever appendage it hits.

MSD · 05-15-2003, 06:33 AM

Saturn doors don't have spots on the doors to mount switches, they have switches on the center console. You could get a circular momentary toggle switch with two-way switch and center-off, and mount it in that hole, otherwise it's up to your creativity.

Scorps · 05-15-2003, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nuggetman
My Saturn has manual windows and I'd like to add power... since it would be about $200/window professionally, I'd like to do it myself using parts from a junkyard... can someone point me to instructions or general info on how to do this?

Man your crazy, mayeb a old classic ifout some big ass computer running the car but you will have to get the parts but also get the computer so the car knows the windows are powered. Hell just take the doors

focalevo · 05-15-2003, 11:31 AM

The easiest way to do what you want would be to start off with a pre-fabricated kit. www.autoloc.com sells kits for windows, and all kinds of other custom stuff. the kits are under 200 bucks with switches, or you can add your own.

Hopefully you understand basic DC circuitry, or at least can fallow schematics well. But I'm sure if you just take your time, you'll end up with the power windows you want.

Be sure to post back and let everyone know how it turned out. I'm hoping to do the same thing to my Focus in the near future.

billege · 05-15-2003, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Also, once you take the door panel off, you have access to the whole inside of the door, so you'll be fine.

--shakran

I never said he wouldn't be able to get in the door.

You ever work in a door?

Sure, the door panel will be off.

This gains access to a 5 inch deep space, crisscrossed with metal bars that form the door's structure. The shallow ass workspace is filled with *suprise* the WINDOW, crank, regulator, door lock linkege, some wires, bar for the widow to ride up and down, maybe the door has a speaker in it too (I dunno if Saturn puts speakers in the front doors, problably).

That is not what I like to call a "fine" working environment. Maybe you have itty bitty little wrists and hands, mine never fit very well.

I personally would not just tie the windows to the cig lighter. Windows are typically on a 25 amp fuse, the ciggie lighter is usually on a 15.

I've never seen a spring on a roll up window, ever. But that may just be my inexperiance talking.

I know the whole dash doesn't come apart, but I knew that Saturn puts the window switches in the center console. The routing of the wires is a neat, or messy, as he wants to do. Generally the lower parts of the dash are coming off to ensure a clean, professional wire run.

nuggetman, I didn't want to pretend you're getting into a job that does not require some hard work. It's not going to be peaches and cream, and I'm not downplaying it.

shakran, instead of having a positive tone that actually helps nuggetman, I get a tone from you indicating your goal is simply to disagree with and discredit me. You did remember the holes in the doors, I forgot, good save.

The new door panels add to his cost. Now he's got to find the same color doors, and hope they match. The sun will fade every car differently, and it *might* be a pain. Either way, they won't be given away, so nuggetman, keep punching that wallet.

It's all too common on the internet to simply reply "no, you're wrong." Personally, if I am wrong, I like to know. This isn't one of those times.

Ashton · 05-15-2003, 05:28 PM

LOL! Billiege is right, perpare yourself for hours of fun..... cut hands and pinched fingers. I've replaced many power window motors over the years and it's always a pain in the ass, If you're dead set on it I would do as Focalevo said... Buy a kit, but you better know your way around a toolbox and auto electrical systems.

shakran · 05-15-2003, 08:15 PM

"You ever work in a door?"

Many times, installing speakers, new glass, a power window, power locks, reinstalling the power locks when the first kit failed, realigning the window track. ...you get the idea

"This gains access to a 5 inch deep space, crisscrossed with metal bars that form the door's structure. The shallow ass workspace is filled with *suprise* the WINDOW, crank, regulator, door lock linkege, some wires, bar for the widow to ride up and down, maybe the door has a speaker in it too (I dunno if Saturn puts speakers in the front doors, problably)."

your original answer made it sound almost like you were working on the door without taking the panel off. Yeah, there are some tight spaces in the door, but they're not that big of a deal. Trust me, it's a LOT worse installing 5 radios (stereo, CB, 3 scanners) and trying to wire them all into the cig lighter behind the center console without removing the console!

"I personally would not just tie the windows to the cig lighter. Windows are typically on a 25 amp fuse, the ciggie lighter is usually on a 15."

Good point. I keep forgetting most are 15A because i upgraded my fuse and wiring on the cig lighter to 30A due to all the radios and the stuff i plug into the cig lighter itself.

"I've never seen a spring on a roll up window, ever. But that may just be my inexperiance talking."

Depends on the window. some of the heavier ones have them to assist in cranking them. If I recall the late 80's caravans had them.

"I know the whole dash doesn't come apart, but I knew that Saturn puts the window switches in the center console."

Well, but he's installing the switches himself. No need to run them to the console. He can stick 'em whereever it's easiest.

"The routing of the wires is a neat, or messy, as he wants to do. Generally the lower parts of the dash are coming off to ensure a clean, professional wire run."

You can, though I've never had bad results by crawling under the dash and securing the wires with zipties. Those ones that come with the stick on base work very well in just about any location.

"shakran, instead of having a positive tone that actually helps nuggetman, I get a tone from you indicating your goal is simply to disagree with and discredit me. You did remember the holes in the doors, I forgot, good save. "

Apologies if I came off that way - - didn't mean to. My goal was just to add info. I'm not out to discredit anyone.

"The new door panels add to his cost. Now he's got to find the same color doors, and hope they match. The sun will fade every car differently, and it *might* be a pain. Either way, they won't be given away, so nuggetman, keep punching that wallet."

Well, yeah, they will but if he doesn't want ugly holes he's gotta do it. Door panels usually don't fade too badly. The biggest problem is rips in the material from the seatbelts. If you pick the door panels up at a junkyard it'll be a lot cheaper, especially if they let you pull it. Also, I believe there are a LOT of saturn clubs around--usually car clubs get deals or just give away parts to fellow owners.

"It's all too common on the internet to simply reply "no, you're wrong." Personally, if I am wrong, I like to know. This isn't one of those times."

You weren't wrong, you just left some stuff out

billege · 05-16-2003, 05:20 AM

You know, you're right about me missing some stuff. I think we should answer some more of these together, it's always cool when someone mentions what I forgot. Then I'm all "damnit, I KNEW that."

We all forgot one thing:

He's going to need a lot of beer to get this one done!

ar2dt0o · 06-04-2007, 11:34 PM

I bought a 2000 Saturn SL2 about 3 weeks ago. So far I have replaced the saturn window motor and switches for 2 of the 4 windows. And, the driver's window still does not work properly. Now, I am being told that the new switch has probably shorted out. The repair man told me that the motor for this window is still good but, the switch has gone out again. Is that possible?
In addition to the above the check engine soon light is on and I am wondering if I should attempt to correct this myself of take to the local Saturn dealer? And if anyone knows where I might find a free download on do-it yourself Saturn repairs. Please let me know! All comments appreciated!

QuasiMondo · 06-05-2007, 08:23 PM

There's a couple places you can try: saturnfans.com or saturnforums.com.

As for the check engine light, you can go to autozone and purchase an OBD2 code reader. The diagnostic port will be underneath the dashboard, can't miss it it's a huge trapezoidal connector. Use the code reader to get the code. If you're lucky, it'll be something that can be cleared with a simple reset (disconnect battery, wait 30 seconds).

lt1s10 · 06-07-2007, 01:29 AM

Autozone will also read the codes for you for free (saves you the cost of buying a scan tool although they can be nice to have) and if they are not busy I've seen them look up the meanings too not just give you the numbers. At least the stores I've been in will read codes for free. But if they at least give you the codes then you can go to one of the saturn forums and find out the meaning as well as what diagnostics go with it.

Depending on what the manufacturer did you may have the wiring in the door already to just add factory power window motors and maybe change the regulator to the power window one then add switches and plug a fuse into the fuse box. Don't know if Saturn has done this but I've seen a couple of GM trucks that had all the wiring there since they used the same harness in all the trucks.

If you go the aftermarket route and use something like the autoloc kits they usually come with a plug for the door panel hole that had the window crank in it. Not the best cosmetic solution but it can save you getting new or used door panels if you can live with the way it looks. And some of the kits even come with an emergency handle that you can stick in that hole in case the motor or wiring fails and you need to roll the window up.

I've taken my share of door panels off and while it's not the best working enviornment it's definitely possible. If it's your first time the main thing is to take your time. If it feels too tight you probably missed a screw somewhere or need to pop off another trim peice before you take off the whole panel. And I can guarantee that a Saturn door and panel is lot better to work on then most any european car door panel.

waltert · 06-07-2007, 11:55 AM

while I've got all of you door experts here, my friend has kept asking me about putting power locks in his '03 accord sedan.

I found this kit, anyone have any suggestions?

http://www.commandoalarms.com/itm10004.htm

Craven Morehead · 06-08-2007, 07:17 PM

trade cars

SaltPork · 06-11-2007, 07:47 AM

dude, it's a Saturn. Putting power windows in it after market, is like trying to refill a Bic lighter. Just leave it on the side of the road and go buy a new one with power windows.

I have nothing helpful, just sarcasm. Good luck with that project....no really, let us know how it goes.

05-15-2003, 03:09 AM	#1 (permalink)
nuggetman Upright	adding power windows to a car w/ manual ones My Saturn has manual windows and I'd like to add power... since it would be about $200/window professionally, I'd like to do it myself using parts from a junkyard... can someone point me to instructions or general info on how to do this?

05-15-2003, 05:51 AM	#2 (permalink)
billege Watcher Location: Ohio	I'm going to warn you, this will be a pain in the ass. Have you ever worked inside a door? If not, you have no idea what you're up to. They have no space to work, you can't see what exactly you're doing all the time, the tool you want to use won't quite fit, ever. We're talking a major pain in the ass. I know this because I have replaced window motors, and power door lock motors in: an 81 Chrysler Imperial, 92 Lincoln Mark VII, 90 Ford Crown Vic, 87 Buick SkylarK(I think it was a skylark). First thing you need to know is what parts will be required, and what you have already. Best way to do that is to get the manufacturer's shop manual for the car. That'll run you $50, at least. I've paid $85 foe one, so don't think it's going to be cheap. Maybe the parts counter at a local dealer will let you borrow one, or help make you a parts list. After you've got your parts list, you need the parts. So now you go to a junkyard and pay a lot more than you'll think for the parts. Hopefully, you have the choice of them pulling the parts, which isn't usually free, or you do it. If you do it, it sure as hell will be your LABOR saving you time. The brackets for the motors are usually riveted to the door, bring a drill. Now that you've got all the parts, you get to spend (for this job) 4 or 5 hours inside the fricken doors. That's assuming you're not a good mechanic. I figure since you had to ask this question, you don't know all that much. Maybe I'm wrong, and I don't mean it to insult you, we all knew shit when we started. That goes for everything in life. So, after you've put in about $200 bucks, and a shit load of time, plus skinned knuckles (which you WILL get in a door) then you've got your power windows. OHHHH yeah, we didn't talk about wiring. If the car is prewired, and I mean wired already into the door with power for the motor, and the interior console has the other end of those wires for the switches, then you're okay. If the car is NOT already wired, you are in for some fun. Ever take a dash apart? You don't want to. I could be seriously overstating. Maybe you just need motors, brackets, and switches. That might be okay. Either way, start at a dealership that will help you get the parts list. Good luck. Remember, sometimes there is a reason it's $200/window. __________________ I can sum up the clash of religion in one sentence: "My Invisible Friend is better than your Invisible Friend."

05-15-2003, 06:13 AM	#3 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	Why in the world would you need to take a dash apart for power windows? You run the wires from the door through the speaker wire channel. Then you just tuck the wires under the dash and secure them to whatever's available with zipties. Tie it in to one of the fuses (cig. lighter fuse works well since there's rarely a big load on it) and run the return wires back the same way you ran the first set. You put the controls in the door panel, not the center console. Your biggest problem will be that you'll now have a big ugly hole where the window crank used to be. If your saturn was available with power windows, you'll want to get the door panel from a car that had them - - then you won't have the hole and you'll have a place to mount the switches without it looking weird. There are power window kits out there that make the job easier as they are meant to be installed without having to rivet/weld etc. Also, once you take the door panel off, you have access to the whole inside of the door, so you'll be fine. Just be careful of the spring on the window (lotta doors have them to reduce roll-up effort) . .If that thing breaks loose, it will remove whatever appendage it hits. Last edited by shakran; 05-15-2003 at 06:15 AM..

05-15-2003, 11:31 AM	#6 (permalink)
focalevo Tilted Location: Southern PA	The easiest way to do what you want would be to start off with a pre-fabricated kit. www.autoloc.com sells kits for windows, and all kinds of other custom stuff. the kits are under 200 bucks with switches, or you can add your own. Hopefully you understand basic DC circuitry, or at least can fallow schematics well. But I'm sure if you just take your time, you'll end up with the power windows you want. Be sure to post back and let everyone know how it turned out. I'm hoping to do the same thing to my Focus in the near future. __________________ 'middle finger is the flag that I waive when I am silenced' -Mudvayne

05-16-2003, 05:20 AM	#10 (permalink)
billege Watcher Location: Ohio	You know, you're right about me missing some stuff. I think we should answer some more of these together, it's always cool when someone mentions what I forgot. Then I'm all "damnit, I KNEW that." We all forgot one thing: He's going to need a lot of beer to get this one done! __________________ I can sum up the clash of religion in one sentence: "My Invisible Friend is better than your Invisible Friend."

05-15-2003, 06:33 AM	#4 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	Saturn doors don't have spots on the doors to mount switches, they have switches on the center console. You could get a circular momentary toggle switch with two-way switch and center-off, and mount it in that hole, otherwise it's up to your creativity.

05-15-2003, 05:28 PM	#8 (permalink)
Ashton PORNHOUND Location: California	LOL! Billiege is right, perpare yourself for hours of fun..... cut hands and pinched fingers. I've replaced many power window motors over the years and it's always a pain in the ass, If you're dead set on it I would do as Focalevo said... Buy a kit, but you better know your way around a toolbox and auto electrical systems.

05-15-2003, 08:15 PM	#9 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	"You ever work in a door?" Many times, installing speakers, new glass, a power window, power locks, reinstalling the power locks when the first kit failed, realigning the window track. ...you get the idea "This gains access to a 5 inch deep space, crisscrossed with metal bars that form the door's structure. The shallow ass workspace is filled with suprise the WINDOW, crank, regulator, door lock linkege, some wires, bar for the widow to ride up and down, maybe the door has a speaker in it too (I dunno if Saturn puts speakers in the front doors, problably)." your original answer made it sound almost like you were working on the door without taking the panel off. Yeah, there are some tight spaces in the door, but they're not that big of a deal. Trust me, it's a LOT worse installing 5 radios (stereo, CB, 3 scanners) and trying to wire them all into the cig lighter behind the center console without removing the console! "I personally would not just tie the windows to the cig lighter. Windows are typically on a 25 amp fuse, the ciggie lighter is usually on a 15." Good point. I keep forgetting most are 15A because i upgraded my fuse and wiring on the cig lighter to 30A due to all the radios and the stuff i plug into the cig lighter itself. "I've never seen a spring on a roll up window, ever. But that may just be my inexperiance talking." Depends on the window. some of the heavier ones have them to assist in cranking them. If I recall the late 80's caravans had them. "I know the whole dash doesn't come apart, but I knew that Saturn puts the window switches in the center console." Well, but he's installing the switches himself. No need to run them to the console. He can stick 'em whereever it's easiest. "The routing of the wires is a neat, or messy, as he wants to do. Generally the lower parts of the dash are coming off to ensure a clean, professional wire run." You can, though I've never had bad results by crawling under the dash and securing the wires with zipties. Those ones that come with the stick on base work very well in just about any location. "shakran, instead of having a positive tone that actually helps nuggetman, I get a tone from you indicating your goal is simply to disagree with and discredit me. You did remember the holes in the doors, I forgot, good save. " Apologies if I came off that way - - didn't mean to. My goal was just to add info. I'm not out to discredit anyone. "The new door panels add to his cost. Now he's got to find the same color doors, and hope they match. The sun will fade every car differently, and it might be a pain. Either way, they won't be given away, so nuggetman, keep punching that wallet." Well, yeah, they will but if he doesn't want ugly holes he's gotta do it. Door panels usually don't fade too badly. The biggest problem is rips in the material from the seatbelts. If you pick the door panels up at a junkyard it'll be a lot cheaper, especially if they let you pull it. Also, I believe there are a LOT of saturn clubs around--usually car clubs get deals or just give away parts to fellow owners. "It's all too common on the internet to simply reply "no, you're wrong." Personally, if I am wrong, I like to know. This isn't one of those times." You weren't wrong, you just left some stuff out

06-04-2007, 11:34 PM	#11 (permalink)
ar2dt0o Upright	I bought a 2000 Saturn SL2 about 3 weeks ago. So far I have replaced the saturn window motor and switches for 2 of the 4 windows. And, the driver's window still does not work properly. Now, I am being told that the new switch has probably shorted out. The repair man told me that the motor for this window is still good but, the switch has gone out again. Is that possible? In addition to the above the check engine soon light is on and I am wondering if I should attempt to correct this myself of take to the local Saturn dealer? And if anyone knows where I might find a free download on do-it yourself Saturn repairs. Please let me know! All comments appreciated!

06-05-2007, 08:23 PM	#12 (permalink)
QuasiMondo Wise-ass Latino Location: Pretoria (Tshwane), RSA	There's a couple places you can try: saturnfans.com or saturnforums.com. As for the check engine light, you can go to autozone and purchase an OBD2 code reader. The diagnostic port will be underneath the dashboard, can't miss it it's a huge trapezoidal connector. Use the code reader to get the code. If you're lucky, it'll be something that can be cleared with a simple reset (disconnect battery, wait 30 seconds). __________________ Cameron originally envisioned the Terminator as a small, unremarkable man, giving it the ability to blend in more easily. As a result, his first choice for the part was Lance Henriksen. O. J. Simpson was on the shortlist but Cameron did not think that such a nice guy could be a ruthless killer. -From the Collector's Edition DVD of The Terminator

06-07-2007, 01:29 AM	#13 (permalink)
lt1s10 Crazy	Autozone will also read the codes for you for free (saves you the cost of buying a scan tool although they can be nice to have) and if they are not busy I've seen them look up the meanings too not just give you the numbers. At least the stores I've been in will read codes for free. But if they at least give you the codes then you can go to one of the saturn forums and find out the meaning as well as what diagnostics go with it. Depending on what the manufacturer did you may have the wiring in the door already to just add factory power window motors and maybe change the regulator to the power window one then add switches and plug a fuse into the fuse box. Don't know if Saturn has done this but I've seen a couple of GM trucks that had all the wiring there since they used the same harness in all the trucks. If you go the aftermarket route and use something like the autoloc kits they usually come with a plug for the door panel hole that had the window crank in it. Not the best cosmetic solution but it can save you getting new or used door panels if you can live with the way it looks. And some of the kits even come with an emergency handle that you can stick in that hole in case the motor or wiring fails and you need to roll the window up. I've taken my share of door panels off and while it's not the best working enviornment it's definitely possible. If it's your first time the main thing is to take your time. If it feels too tight you probably missed a screw somewhere or need to pop off another trim peice before you take off the whole panel. And I can guarantee that a Saturn door and panel is lot better to work on then most any european car door panel.

06-07-2007, 11:55 AM	#14 (permalink)
waltert Insane	while I've got all of you door experts here, my friend has kept asking me about putting power locks in his '03 accord sedan. I found this kit, anyone have any suggestions? http://www.commandoalarms.com/itm10004.htm

06-08-2007, 07:17 PM	#15 (permalink)
Craven Morehead Custom User Title	trade cars

06-11-2007, 07:47 AM	#16 (permalink)
SaltPork Everything's better with bacon Location: In your local grocer's freezer.	dude, it's a Saturn. Putting power windows in it after market, is like trying to refill a Bic lighter. Just leave it on the side of the road and go buy a new one with power windows. I have nothing helpful, just sarcasm. Good luck with that project....no really, let us know how it goes. __________________ It was like that when I got here....I swear.