Smart Spending Foiled - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

genuinegirly · 12-13-2005, 04:24 PM

So...
Just found out something that is slightly disturbing.

My SO is exceptionally frugal. He cares a lot about having clean finances and good credit. He takes very good care of his money and invests it wisely. He's good at it, too.

But some in his family are not as careful. He has a brother that steals money out of their father's bank account. They keep confronting him about it, the activity stops for a few months (or he's more careful about veiling it), and then it comes up again a few months later. He's not going to stop. So my SO keeps loaning his dad money because the brother keeps depleating the dad's bank account.

Over the last two years my SO has been nickeled and dimed out of $8.5K.
And it doesn't look like it's going to stop anytime soon.

Something needs to happen, and I feel the sooner the better. This brother is still in his 20's, seems like a good age to stop the trend now...

Any advice on how to approach this tactfully and honestly, without bruising family bonds, would be appreciated!

arch13 · 12-13-2005, 04:54 PM

Why not just have the father bar the son from having bank access? Why does the son have access in the first place?
There is no acceptable reason short of the father not being capable of handling his own finances by way of Alzheimers that you can tell me that warrants the sons access.
This is not going to go away without unpleasant discussions and perhaps confrontations.

Your SO's father needs to acknowledge that a crime has been committed, confront his son about it with you and your SO there for support, and make sure the son understands that the next step after this is the law intervening. This sort of thing can rarely be taken care of "within" a family. Sadly, fear and guilt about whats happening keep people from doing to family what they would not hesitate to do to another. (IE, calling the police to report fraud and embezelment)

Your SO's father needs to have the ability to confront his son and cut off all access. He needs to contact the bank and place a watch on his account for any activity that he has not authorized.
The bank needs to be made aware of the situation and participate in stoping it. It is not in their best interest either. Especiallly if it could be shown that the bank was not enforcing security in preventing access by someone other than an authorized accessor.

He may need to have new bank account numbers issued and have new cards issued so that the old numbers are useless. This will enable the bank to catch the son in the act if the father has it done in one day without saying a word to the son abut the change.

This will be a blow up, but for the long term stability of a family, it is sometimes needed to cause short term emotional pain to bring the family closer.
The short term pain of being in trouble with the law may in time allow the son to develop a healthy relationship with Dad instead of a predatory one.

Willravel · 12-13-2005, 05:24 PM

Stealing is illegal and wrong. Call the police if it happens again. He needs to understand how to live in the world.

xepherys · 12-13-2005, 08:34 PM

I agree with Will and arch13... but if the father can't or won't take care of the situation, your SO should cut off your dad. He's being fiscally irresponsible himself by letting it go on.

genuinegirly · 12-13-2005, 10:34 PM

arch13, thanks for posting such a thoughtful response.
Definitely some points in there that I will bring to the table for discussion.

Rodney · 12-14-2005, 12:12 PM

This is a really weird situation; your boyfriend's dad is enabling his other son, and your boyfriend is enabling his dad to be an enabler. Somebody's got to break the chain here.

I saw a TV report -- 60 Minutes, I think -- about stealing of money between family members, and it is incredibly common. And the person who does the stealing usually has some kind of self-justification and rarely stops on their own. In fact, when confronted, they'll try to put all the blame on others in the family, especially if the law is called.

Since your boyfriend's dad has been letting your boyfriend's brother get away with this, and since the brother has probably wasted all the money anyway, step 1 is to make it impossible for him to steal the way he's been stealing. this is just a matter of will. Step 2 is to lay down the law and tell son that no further such activity will be tolerated, or the law will be brought in. That, combined with cutting off account access, will probably do the trick. His family should be prepared for a lot of yelling and accusations from the brother, but should ignore them. It's usually just a tantrum of frustration and bad justifications.

Of course, if he keeps at it, or steals something else, to jail he should go or none of it means anything.

Edit -- I left off the conclusion: your boyfriend shouldn't keep making up for Dad's losses to the other son. He should tell Dad he's going to stop passing money along, but that he _will_ help Dad lay down the law. If Dad doesn't want to do it, it's on Dad. Father or not, if he keeps letting his son steal from him without doing anything, having his other son make up the money is _not helping_ fix an unhealthy situation that will eventually go 'way south. Left unchecked, eventually brother will scale his thefts up and up until stopped.

Cynthetiq · 12-14-2005, 12:26 PM

He's not investing so wisely if he's making money on good investments then handing over risk taken profits to someone else for no good reason.

stop the insanity. sometimes love is holding out and not giving in.

Xazy · 12-18-2005, 03:35 PM

I have to agree that it is something that has to be stopped, perhaps an intervention with the brother. However, depending on your relationship depends on how far you should try forcing the issue. The reason why I say this is blood is thicker then water. And a lot of people will stick up for siblings over others. So depending on how your relationship is, would depend on how far I would push the issue (since you do not want to harm your own relationship).

Another way less confrontational would perhaps be to perhaps ask your SO what issues his brother has, and how you can help him resolve them, so he would not be in a situation where he is always in need of extra money.

genuinegirly · 12-22-2005, 06:48 PM

Thanks, everyone, for the advice!

I have spoken some to the SO about it. The situation bothers to him to no end, but he doesn't see it as enough of an issue to do anything. He and his family are conflict-avoidant by nature, and this brother seems to be taking advantage of that trait. I know I have no place to discuss it with anyone else in his family, so I will continue attempting to show the SO that his brother's actions are destructive and need to be stopped.

Dragonknight · 12-23-2005, 03:41 AM

Unfortunately there is no happy resolution to this situation. One way or another little thieving bro needs to be stopped. Everyone has given good advice so now your problem is getting your SO to realize said problem and doing something about it. Good luck with this, it will be difficult to get your SO to do this given the info you've posted about him. Hopefully he'll come around though.

Rodney · 12-23-2005, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genuinegirly

Thanks, everyone, for the advice!

I have spoken some to the SO about it. The situation bothers to him to no end, but he doesn't see it as enough of an issue to do anything. He and his family are conflict-avoidant by nature, and this brother seems to be taking advantage of that trait. I know I have no place to discuss it with anyone else in his family, so I will continue attempting to show the SO that his brother's actions are destructive and need to be stopped.

The problem with conflict-avoidant families -- and I speak as a member of one -- is not just that they avoid conflict, but that they don't actually know how to deal with it at all. So what can happen is that a problem can build and build until it can no longer be avoided, and then something or somebody snaps and reacts to the problem in a very extreme way, and not usually a constructive one. And nobody ever repairs the damage, because nobody know how to. And the family either fractures violently or drifts silently but inexorably apart, never to rejoin.

So do what you can with your SO -- and keep reminding him it's not just about the money, but about the health of his family.

genuinegirly · 12-25-2005, 09:38 AM

Oooo thank you Rodney for the vivid insight on the future of this...

flstf · 12-27-2005, 01:27 PM

I appreciate your concern with your SO's action in this but he probably loves his father and brother and has already made the decision to be the financial backer of their little money schemes. I have seen similar situations before and it will probably go on until the money supply dries up which in this case is your SO.

Since your SO doesn't think this is enough of a problem to do anything about it then perhaps he is not really as concerned as you seem to be. If he was really bothered by this then surely he would help his father open up another bank account that his brother had no access to.

I wonder if the father doesn't know exactly what is going on and is in favor of your SO giving money to his other son. Perhaps his father has decided to go ahead and let the one brother support the other one through him.

12-13-2005, 04:24 PM	#1 (permalink)
genuinegirly Eat your vegetables Super Moderator Location: Arabidopsis-ville	Smart Spending Foiled So... Just found out something that is slightly disturbing. My SO is exceptionally frugal. He cares a lot about having clean finances and good credit. He takes very good care of his money and invests it wisely. He's good at it, too. But some in his family are not as careful. He has a brother that steals money out of their father's bank account. They keep confronting him about it, the activity stops for a few months (or he's more careful about veiling it), and then it comes up again a few months later. He's not going to stop. So my SO keeps loaning his dad money because the brother keeps depleating the dad's bank account. Over the last two years my SO has been nickeled and dimed out of $8.5K. And it doesn't look like it's going to stop anytime soon. Something needs to happen, and I feel the sooner the better. This brother is still in his 20's, seems like a good age to stop the trend now... Any advice on how to approach this tactfully and honestly, without bruising family bonds, would be appreciated! __________________ "Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

12-13-2005, 04:54 PM	#2 (permalink)
arch13 Loves my girl in thongs Location: North of Mexico, South of Canada	Why not just have the father bar the son from having bank access? Why does the son have access in the first place? There is no acceptable reason short of the father not being capable of handling his own finances by way of Alzheimers that you can tell me that warrants the sons access. This is not going to go away without unpleasant discussions and perhaps confrontations. Your SO's father needs to acknowledge that a crime has been committed, confront his son about it with you and your SO there for support, and make sure the son understands that the next step after this is the law intervening. This sort of thing can rarely be taken care of "within" a family. Sadly, fear and guilt about whats happening keep people from doing to family what they would not hesitate to do to another. (IE, calling the police to report fraud and embezelment) Your SO's father needs to have the ability to confront his son and cut off all access. He needs to contact the bank and place a watch on his account for any activity that he has not authorized. The bank needs to be made aware of the situation and participate in stoping it. It is not in their best interest either. Especiallly if it could be shown that the bank was not enforcing security in preventing access by someone other than an authorized accessor. He may need to have new bank account numbers issued and have new cards issued so that the old numbers are useless. This will enable the bank to catch the son in the act if the father has it done in one day without saying a word to the son abut the change. This will be a blow up, but for the long term stability of a family, it is sometimes needed to cause short term emotional pain to bring the family closer. The short term pain of being in trouble with the law may in time allow the son to develop a healthy relationship with Dad instead of a predatory one. __________________ Seen on an employer evaluation: "The wheel is turning but the hamsters dead" ____________________________ Is arch13 really a porn diety ? find out after the film at 11. -Nanofever

12-13-2005, 10:34 PM	#5 (permalink)
genuinegirly Eat your vegetables Super Moderator Location: Arabidopsis-ville	arch13, thanks for posting such a thoughtful response. Definitely some points in there that I will bring to the table for discussion. __________________ "Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

12-14-2005, 12:12 PM	#6 (permalink)
Rodney Observant Ruminant Location: Rich Wannabe Hippie Town	This is a really weird situation; your boyfriend's dad is enabling his other son, and your boyfriend is enabling his dad to be an enabler. Somebody's got to break the chain here. I saw a TV report -- 60 Minutes, I think -- about stealing of money between family members, and it is incredibly common. And the person who does the stealing usually has some kind of self-justification and rarely stops on their own. In fact, when confronted, they'll try to put all the blame on others in the family, especially if the law is called. Since your boyfriend's dad has been letting your boyfriend's brother get away with this, and since the brother has probably wasted all the money anyway, step 1 is to make it impossible for him to steal the way he's been stealing. this is just a matter of will. Step 2 is to lay down the law and tell son that no further such activity will be tolerated, or the law will be brought in. That, combined with cutting off account access, will probably do the trick. His family should be prepared for a lot of yelling and accusations from the brother, but should ignore them. It's usually just a tantrum of frustration and bad justifications. Of course, if he keeps at it, or steals something else, to jail he should go or none of it means anything. Edit -- I left off the conclusion: your boyfriend shouldn't keep making up for Dad's losses to the other son. He should tell Dad he's going to stop passing money along, but that he _will_ help Dad lay down the law. If Dad doesn't want to do it, it's on Dad. Father or not, if he keeps letting his son steal from him without doing anything, having his other son make up the money is _not helping_ fix an unhealthy situation that will eventually go 'way south. Left unchecked, eventually brother will scale his thefts up and up until stopped. Last edited by Rodney; 12-14-2005 at 04:59 PM..

12-14-2005, 12:26 PM	#7 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	He's not investing so wisely if he's making money on good investments then handing over risk taken profits to someone else for no good reason. stop the insanity. sometimes love is holding out and not giving in. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

12-13-2005, 05:24 PM	#3 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Stealing is illegal and wrong. Call the police if it happens again. He needs to understand how to live in the world.

12-13-2005, 08:34 PM	#4 (permalink)
xepherys <3 TFP Location: 17TLH2445607250	I agree with Will and arch13... but if the father can't or won't take care of the situation, your SO should cut off your dad. He's being fiscally irresponsible himself by letting it go on.

12-18-2005, 03:35 PM	#8 (permalink)
Xazy People in masks cannot be trusted Location: NYC	I have to agree that it is something that has to be stopped, perhaps an intervention with the brother. However, depending on your relationship depends on how far you should try forcing the issue. The reason why I say this is blood is thicker then water. And a lot of people will stick up for siblings over others. So depending on how your relationship is, would depend on how far I would push the issue (since you do not want to harm your own relationship). Another way less confrontational would perhaps be to perhaps ask your SO what issues his brother has, and how you can help him resolve them, so he would not be in a situation where he is always in need of extra money.

12-22-2005, 06:48 PM	#9 (permalink)
genuinegirly Eat your vegetables Super Moderator Location: Arabidopsis-ville	Thanks, everyone, for the advice! I have spoken some to the SO about it. The situation bothers to him to no end, but he doesn't see it as enough of an issue to do anything. He and his family are conflict-avoidant by nature, and this brother seems to be taking advantage of that trait. I know I have no place to discuss it with anyone else in his family, so I will continue attempting to show the SO that his brother's actions are destructive and need to be stopped. __________________ "Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

12-23-2005, 03:41 AM	#10 (permalink)
Dragonknight Insane Location: Hawaii	Unfortunately there is no happy resolution to this situation. One way or another little thieving bro needs to be stopped. Everyone has given good advice so now your problem is getting your SO to realize said problem and doing something about it. Good luck with this, it will be difficult to get your SO to do this given the info you've posted about him. Hopefully he'll come around though. __________________ Freedom is NOT Free.

12-25-2005, 09:38 AM	#12 (permalink)
genuinegirly Eat your vegetables Super Moderator Location: Arabidopsis-ville	Oooo thank you Rodney for the vivid insight on the future of this... __________________ "Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

12-27-2005, 01:27 PM	#13 (permalink)
flstf Easy Rider Location: Moscow on the Ohio	I appreciate your concern with your SO's action in this but he probably loves his father and brother and has already made the decision to be the financial backer of their little money schemes. I have seen similar situations before and it will probably go on until the money supply dries up which in this case is your SO. Since your SO doesn't think this is enough of a problem to do anything about it then perhaps he is not really as concerned as you seem to be. If he was really bothered by this then surely he would help his father open up another bank account that his brother had no access to. I wonder if the father doesn't know exactly what is going on and is in favor of your SO giving money to his other son. Perhaps his father has decided to go ahead and let the one brother support the other one through him.