Being sensitive, nature or nurture? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

KellyC · 10-02-2005, 03:35 PM

This may be a bit naive of me to ask, but I would like to know if being sensitive, more sympathetic is a natural trait of a person or it can be taught to a person. If it is the latter, how would one go about learning it?

The reason I ask is because I have a hard time sympathizing people, while I understand and see the predictament some people are in, I cannot for the life of me go, "awww, I know how you feel" and relate to people in an emotional way. This is frustrating for me when I talk to female friends and I can't relate to them. They would start talking about something and begin opening up to me, but as soon as I show signs that I don't understand them, they withdraw immediately and dismiss the whole thing with, "never mind, forget it." I think it's understandable that they'd do this; I learned that women like to be understood, but it nevertheless, pisses me off because here I am ready to talk and give 100% of my attention to her/them and I'm shut off from her/them. And I also have a short fuse so sometime I would say, "why do girls do this? Keep on being open/close, open/close," right after she/they withdraw, which just make things worse, as it turns out.

I'm also very blunt and straightforward sometime, I say what I think and I get straight to the point. Do you think this may have contribute to my problem? I figure that I need to do something about this if I want to have a deep conversation with my lady friends, and it's also for self-improvement. So advice? Pointers? Tips?

Ooooo, would the mods kindly edit the "of" to "or" in the title for me? Thanks.

Rodney · 10-02-2005, 07:52 PM

I'm not always a whiz at this either, but I'd say just ease off and let the woman talk more. In my experience, women (some men, too, but a lot of women) work out problems or issues "out loud." Men often do it inside their own heads, women often do it while in the act of talking to others. Don't try to hurry the conversation along to a conclusion; she's working on it herself and using you as a sounding board. If you impose an answer on her abruptly and say "that's it," you're derailing the process.

It's kind of like working on a math problem and having somebody come up, grab the pencil and write the answer for you down on your sheet of paper. It's abrupt and rude; the answer might be wrong; and even if it's right, it would have been better if you'd had the chance to work it out yourself; you'd have learned something.

So hang back, let her talk. Pay attention not only to what she's saying but to her emotional state, which is just as meaningful for figuring out an appropriate response. Don't try to jump straight to the conclusion, but feel free to add comments about points she makes along the way (Her: "I know she hates my guts now..." You: "Don't be so sure about that...").

Maybe you're not the kind of guy that likes a long conversation about feelings, or relates to it. If so, that's fine, that's you; but remember that other people do. If some woman is pouring out her problems to you and you can't relate, just show your support: "Look, I'm kind of slow on figuring out feelings, but you sound really broken up and I'll do anything I can to help."

That's my two cents. All women are hereby empowered to tell me that I'm full of it.

abaya · 10-02-2005, 08:22 PM

^^^ It's clear that Rodney has earned street cred in the world of women.

As a woman who processes out loud, I highly recommend that you take note of his advice. Basically, slow down and turn off your need to be rational or declarative when listening to someone talk things out... she wants your empathy, not your analysis. She also wants you to comment on just about every sentence she makes (that doesn't include grunts or "yeahs")... even better than comments are QUESTIONS, because they reflect your level of interest and attention to detail. Good luck, man.

Btw, I think it has little to do with nature vs. nurture, and everything to do with your level of motivation to become an above-average conversationalist. If you REALLY want to learn how to connect with women and anyone else who's keen on attentive conversation, you'll teach yourself how to do it... (the math analogy applies here, nice one Rodney).

lurkette · 10-03-2005, 05:45 AM

Most people, male or female, don't necessarily want sympathy or advice; they just want to be heard. You don't have to understand exactly how they feel, or even why they feel that way; you just have to understand THAT they feel that way.

Yakk · 10-03-2005, 01:08 PM

Kelly, you can learn.

As noted above, you do not need to understand someone in order to be sympathetic. All you need to do is emphasize.

Start understanding that they are another person and they exist at the center of their own universe. Create a model of them in your head, and attribute to the model emotions. Feel the emotions. Know that the model of them is not them, but it is a tool.

Refine the model to match what they express and work out what emotions may be running through them, and make your model of them feel those emotions. Because the model exists within your head, you can feel the emotions that you see expressed by them.

Voila, Empathy. Empathy leads to sympathy.

Remember: the goal of the model is not to duplicate their thought processes. The goal of the model is to duplicate their emotional responses, but in your head where you can feel them.

KellyC · 10-03-2005, 09:16 PM

Thanks for the advices all. After giving it some thoughts, I found out one of the reasons why I can't seem to do well in this aspect with the ladies is that I often say what they don't want to hear or disagree. This actually happened few days ago with a friend of mine and it goes something like this.

Me: I wish I could be more sympathetic like those sensitive guys
Her: But then you wouldn't be you any more

Me: Yeah I would, I'm still me, just more sympathetic.
Her: No you wouldn't, and you wouldn't be my friend any more.

Me: Yes, I would, I'll just be a bit more sympathetic but I'll still be me. And I don't get how you can equate me being more sympathetic to not being your friend.
Her: 'cause you wouldn't be the friend that I've befriended.

Me: What are you talking about? I'm still me.
Her: nevermind....

Me: See, this is EXACTLY why I think I need to be more sympathetic and sensitive.

About the comment about me not being a guy who likes to have long conversations about feelings, it's more like the opportunity doesn't present itself as much as I'd like it to. These kind of talks rarely occurs to me. Most of my life I have mainly guy friends and being typical guys, we don't talk about feelings. So when I started making female friends, and actually got close enough to a rare few that's willing to share their feelings with me, I do not know how to respond.

I also learned that women like it when guys share their feelings with them, but for the life of me I can't. I've been keeping these feelings to myself for so long, and has gotten so good at it, that it's nearly impossible for me to let 'em out, and when I try to, I can barely make coherent sentences. I can do this in writing just fine, and over AIM, but when it comes to actually talking, I can't. There's a part of me that just choke on the words that I want to say. I know what to say in my head, but when I open my mouth, I can't say a damn thing. It's like there's an invisible tape over my mouth. Eventually, I became conscious of this and got extremely nervous, which then lead to more thoughts in my head telling me to not fuck up and just say what I want to say about my feelings, and this just gives me more pressure which further bars me from actually saying anything. I want to make this stop but I have no idea how. Can I get some help on this too? How do I start?

10-02-2005, 03:35 PM	#1 (permalink)
KellyC Comment or else!! Location: Home sweet home	Being sensitive, nature or nurture? This may be a bit naive of me to ask, but I would like to know if being sensitive, more sympathetic is a natural trait of a person or it can be taught to a person. If it is the latter, how would one go about learning it? The reason I ask is because I have a hard time sympathizing people, while I understand and see the predictament some people are in, I cannot for the life of me go, "awww, I know how you feel" and relate to people in an emotional way. This is frustrating for me when I talk to female friends and I can't relate to them. They would start talking about something and begin opening up to me, but as soon as I show signs that I don't understand them, they withdraw immediately and dismiss the whole thing with, "never mind, forget it." I think it's understandable that they'd do this; I learned that women like to be understood, but it nevertheless, pisses me off because here I am ready to talk and give 100% of my attention to her/them and I'm shut off from her/them. And I also have a short fuse so sometime I would say, "why do girls do this? Keep on being open/close, open/close," right after she/they withdraw, which just make things worse, as it turns out. I'm also very blunt and straightforward sometime, I say what I think and I get straight to the point. Do you think this may have contribute to my problem? I figure that I need to do something about this if I want to have a deep conversation with my lady friends, and it's also for self-improvement. So advice? Pointers? Tips? Ooooo, would the mods kindly edit the "of" to "or" in the title for me? Thanks. __________________ Him: Ok, I have to ask, what do you believe? Me: Shit happens. Last edited by lurkette; 10-03-2005 at 05:41 AM..

10-02-2005, 08:22 PM	#3 (permalink)
abaya Location: Iceland	^^^ It's clear that Rodney has earned street cred in the world of women. As a woman who processes out loud, I highly recommend that you take note of his advice. Basically, slow down and turn off your need to be rational or declarative when listening to someone talk things out... she wants your empathy, not your analysis. She also wants you to comment on just about every sentence she makes (that doesn't include grunts or "yeahs")... even better than comments are QUESTIONS, because they reflect your level of interest and attention to detail. Good luck, man. Btw, I think it has little to do with nature vs. nurture, and everything to do with your level of motivation to become an above-average conversationalist. If you REALLY want to learn how to connect with women and anyone else who's keen on attentive conversation, you'll teach yourself how to do it... (the math analogy applies here, nice one Rodney). __________________ And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran Last edited by abaya; 10-02-2005 at 08:24 PM..

10-03-2005, 05:45 AM	#4 (permalink)
lurkette My future is coming on Moderator Emeritus Location: east of the sun and west of the moon	Most people, male or female, don't necessarily want sympathy or advice; they just want to be heard. You don't have to understand exactly how they feel, or even why they feel that way; you just have to understand THAT they feel that way. __________________ "If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." - Anatole France

10-03-2005, 01:08 PM	#5 (permalink)
Yakk Wehret Den Anfängen! Location: Ontario, Canada	Kelly, you can learn. As noted above, you do not need to understand someone in order to be sympathetic. All you need to do is emphasize. Start understanding that they are another person and they exist at the center of their own universe. Create a model of them in your head, and attribute to the model emotions. Feel the emotions. Know that the model of them is not them, but it is a tool. Refine the model to match what they express and work out what emotions may be running through them, and make your model of them feel those emotions. Because the model exists within your head, you can feel the emotions that you see expressed by them. Voila, Empathy. Empathy leads to sympathy. Remember: the goal of the model is not to duplicate their thought processes. The goal of the model is to duplicate their emotional responses, but in your head where you can feel them. __________________ Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

10-03-2005, 09:16 PM	#6 (permalink)
KellyC Comment or else!! Location: Home sweet home	Thanks for the advices all. After giving it some thoughts, I found out one of the reasons why I can't seem to do well in this aspect with the ladies is that I often say what they don't want to hear or disagree. This actually happened few days ago with a friend of mine and it goes something like this. Me: I wish I could be more sympathetic like those sensitive guys Her: But then you wouldn't be you any more Me: Yeah I would, I'm still me, just more sympathetic. Her: No you wouldn't, and you wouldn't be my friend any more. Me: Yes, I would, I'll just be a bit more sympathetic but I'll still be me. And I don't get how you can equate me being more sympathetic to not being your friend. Her: 'cause you wouldn't be the friend that I've befriended. Me: What are you talking about? I'm still me. Her: nevermind.... Me: See, this is EXACTLY why I think I need to be more sympathetic and sensitive. About the comment about me not being a guy who likes to have long conversations about feelings, it's more like the opportunity doesn't present itself as much as I'd like it to. These kind of talks rarely occurs to me. Most of my life I have mainly guy friends and being typical guys, we don't talk about feelings. So when I started making female friends, and actually got close enough to a rare few that's willing to share their feelings with me, I do not know how to respond. I also learned that women like it when guys share their feelings with them, but for the life of me I can't. I've been keeping these feelings to myself for so long, and has gotten so good at it, that it's nearly impossible for me to let 'em out, and when I try to, I can barely make coherent sentences. I can do this in writing just fine, and over AIM, but when it comes to actually talking, I can't. There's a part of me that just choke on the words that I want to say. I know what to say in my head, but when I open my mouth, I can't say a damn thing. It's like there's an invisible tape over my mouth. Eventually, I became conscious of this and got extremely nervous, which then lead to more thoughts in my head telling me to not fuck up and just say what I want to say about my feelings, and this just gives me more pressure which further bars me from actually saying anything. I want to make this stop but I have no idea how. Can I get some help on this too? How do I start? __________________ Him: Ok, I have to ask, what do you believe? Me: Shit happens.

10-02-2005, 07:52 PM	#2 (permalink)
Rodney Observant Ruminant Location: Rich Wannabe Hippie Town	I'm not always a whiz at this either, but I'd say just ease off and let the woman talk more. In my experience, women (some men, too, but a lot of women) work out problems or issues "out loud." Men often do it inside their own heads, women often do it while in the act of talking to others. Don't try to hurry the conversation along to a conclusion; she's working on it herself and using you as a sounding board. If you impose an answer on her abruptly and say "that's it," you're derailing the process. It's kind of like working on a math problem and having somebody come up, grab the pencil and write the answer for you down on your sheet of paper. It's abrupt and rude; the answer might be wrong; and even if it's right, it would have been better if you'd had the chance to work it out yourself; you'd have learned something. So hang back, let her talk. Pay attention not only to what she's saying but to her emotional state, which is just as meaningful for figuring out an appropriate response. Don't try to jump straight to the conclusion, but feel free to add comments about points she makes along the way (Her: "I know she hates my guts now..." You: "Don't be so sure about that..."). Maybe you're not the kind of guy that likes a long conversation about feelings, or relates to it. If so, that's fine, that's you; but remember that other people do. If some woman is pouring out her problems to you and you can't relate, just show your support: "Look, I'm kind of slow on figuring out feelings, but you sound really broken up and I'll do anything I can to help." That's my two cents. All women are hereby empowered to tell me that I'm full of it.