Best place to live in the U.S.

[FlatLand Flyer]

Well the wife and I are trying to decide where we should go after we graduate college. I have a B.S. in Commercial Aviation and she will be graduating law school. She can choose any state in the union to take the bar exam.

A little background on places we have lived. We are both originally from Spokane, Wa and are used to having 4 seasons and mountains and a plethora of outdoor activities at our disposal. We have lived the past 4 years in Grand Forks, ND. It is safe to say that we think if we have been able to survive in ND for 4 years, we can survive and be happy pretty much anywhere else.

The two main places we are considering are Seattle and Portland. They seem to offer the best of what we grew up with along with job opportunities for us (mostly for her). However, we have recently considered Arizona (not sure where though), Las Vegas, Colorado (Denver area), and North Carolina. We have seen places in North Carolina consitently named as some of the best cities/towns to live in in the U.S. We are considering Arizona for the cheap housing we have heard about and I am considering trying to apply for a flight position with the border patrol.

Some things that are important to us are relatively low cost of living/housing, weather, crime, traffic, etc. By weather I mean neither of us are big fans of humidity, mosquitos, or bitter cold. I know crime is just part of the deal when you live in a big city, but we would prefer some place where it is a least under control somewhat and not rampant. Traffic also comes with a big city, but we would hope it would not be all that bad. We have both experienced rush hour Seattle traffic and would prefer to avoid that.

If I have omitted any other factors you all consider key, just let me know and I will answer them the best I can.

[dlish]

try sydney australia ..best place on earth!

[martinguerre]

don't know what you describe as bitter cold...

but Mpls does have a pretty good job market (assuming Northwest doesn't go completely under and floods the area with pilots), and cost of living is good compared to the average wages. if it's just you and the wife, there's great housing in the downtowns...loft style new construction that's pretty cheap. the legal community is pretty good here-some major firms, and good schools that feed into them.

but it all comes down to how you feel about winter. i don't think it's as bad as it's been for you the last years, but i won't lie and say isn't cold.

[tec-9-7]

Where in North Carolina are you looking? There are certainly some really nice parts of the state...

[Sage]

Well, seeing as I live here...

ASHEVILLE NC!!!

It's got four distinct seasons, the summers aren't *too* hot (usually the hottest we get, on about four days out of the year, is 95, and even then it's bearable), there's craptons of outdoors stuff to do (serious craptons), the downtown is a happenin place (lots to do for whatever you're into), it's just a fabulous, fabulous place.

Also, our airport is kinda small. This means you won't have to fly on really long trips anywhere, and you don't have to deal with being in a huge airport. Also, it's expanding, so you have some measure of job security (don't know how secure the job of a pilot is). I know that in the city limits, the housing prices are kinda high (tho apartment rent can be found for pretty reasonable, especially if you're a pilot and she's a lawyer) BUT the airport is in Arden, which is about 15 min south of Asheville- you could live out there (quiet place, lots of houses at cheaper than in-city) or you could even look at living in Hendersonville (20 min south of Asheville, 5 min south of airport, housing about 2/3 to 1/2 what it is in Asheville).

Feel free to PM me if you wanna know more... I'm always up for telling people about this *awesome* place that I live!!!

[Lebell]

While I love Denver, the housing prices are currently very high and there are also usually a few weeks in the winter of bitter cold (but less than ND).

Anywhere down south you will get some nasty humidity, especially July-Sept.

If you can get a job in Portland, that would probably fit the bill. I say "if", because the unemployment rate in Oregon is among the highest in the nation. Many people live across the river in Vancouver WA and shop in Portland. In WA, no income tax. In OR, no sales tax.

[FlatLand Flyer]

Thanks for the replies everybody.

We were pretty much set on Portland, but we have only recently been thinking of other places. We are both intigued by the propects of Arizona. There are a lot of opportunities for us both down there. However, 115 degree heat during the summer might get a little old. It would be better than -30 degrees for months straight in the winter though.

I have actually considered Asheville or maybe Charlotte, NC. Neither of us have ever been to the area though and have not looked at the job situation at all there. I am sure she could get a job easily, but I have very little documented skills other than being able to fly an airplane.

I guess what I am saying is that we are still a long ways off on being able to decide. All of our family is in eastern WA, so Portland or Seattle is just more logical for when we have kids.

Decisions, decisions.

[WillyPete]

You also want to consider the liquid air in Portland.

They get a lot of rain. About as much as Arizona gets sunshine.

[Esen]

Charlotte NC

[Vincentt]

Yeah, I like Charlotte.

[Rodney]

Second Asheville. Never been there, myself, but I know a number of people who've fled the California Coast (Santa Cruz, specifically) for Asheville to get affordable housing in a similar academic/cultural/countercultural/pretty area, and they're all happy as clams back there.

Portland's fine. If you must do Arizona, try Sedona or Flagstaff. Phoenix is big, flat, ugly, and dusty, and the traffic's not all that great, either. Oh yeah, and _hot_. Real hot. Tucson I can't speak for, or against.

If you just want somewhere cheap to live with a reasonable climate, try Arkansas. But "cheap" and "good weather" is all I'll say for it.

[Marvelous Marv]

Charlotte is nice, but so is Asheville.

Charlotte obviously is a little more urbane.

[Salomon]

Seattle, WA

[oberon]

I live in the Denver area. The summers are pretty nice. It can get hot sometimes: 105F was this year's record in Denver, and we had about 5-10 100+ days, but mostly in the 90s in July/August. However, the low humidity (8-20% typically) makes the heat bearable. And I think this summer was a bit above average. I didn't think it would, but it seriously makes a huge difference. The winters are great too.. especially if you enjoy winter sports and can handle mildly cold weather (it doesn't usually drop below 5F except in the Rockies).

Personally I'd prefer to live in a slightly colder climate: one that didn't have 90+ degree days. San Francisco's climate is nice. Unfortunately it's a bit far from mountains for my taste. But I'd still live there.

As for everything else:

Anywhere in the midwest: bitter cold (colder than Denver & less snow) short winters, hot and fairly hot & humid summers.

In the south: hot and humid summers, mild winters. No spring or fall to speak of. Hurricanes create major disasters on average every 30 years (more frequent depending on location) anywhere along the Gulf, Florida, and Carolina coasts.

In Arizona: Long, extremely hot summers. 100+ most of it, 110+ for about 2-3 weeks. Live here if you like to keep a permanent tan or like to live indoors almost all day every day in the summer.

ND/SD/WY/ID/MT/MN: Long, bitter cold winters. Short mild summers. Either there's no mountains (in the eastern areas) or no people (western areas).

WA/OR: Rain. Enough said.

East coast: urbania everywhere. Horrible traffic situation.

I'm great at pigeonholing the USA.

[HoneyPot]

MONTANA!!!

[snowy]

I love Portland and Oregon in general. But I'm clearly biased.

[soccerchamp76]

Livin' in the midwest is pretty nice.
I live in St. Louis (Cincinnati for college though) and its a great town. It is a nice city to raise a family (great zoo, school system, museums, etc.). For sports you got the Cardinals, Rams, and Blues. No NBA, however. Weatherwise, it fluctuates widely. Summers are pretty warm but winters can also be warm or cold, depending on the year.
Check out the Lou!

[FlatLand Flyer]

The midwest is not an option. We are in the upper midewest right now and we just don't care for it at all.

After looking at the kinds of homes you can get for your money, we are really considering Charlotte, but that is over 3000 miles away from both of out families, and we are not sure we would like that. We are also not real sure how the job market is in Charlotte. We have checked carreerbuilder.com and similar site, but still are a little leary.

We are back to leaning towards Portland or Seattle. We feel that one of those two are the "safe" choice.

This is how we rank'em right now:

1. Portland
2. Seattle
3. Charlotte
4. Pheonix
5. Las Vegas
6. Denver

Cost of living is a major concern for the Seattle and Portland though.

[oberon]

Of your choices, I'd put it:

1. Denver
2. Portland
3. Seattle
4. Charlotte
5. Las Vegas
6. Phoenix

But hey, I'm biased and I like cooler climates. You haven't said what your priorities are, but I guess your main priority is where you can get jobs and housing cost?

Personally I think housing in the Front Range is reasonable, except for a few specific areas, Boulder in particular.

[Johnny Pyro]

You don't want to live in Massachusetts! Trust me. Vegas sounds nice!

[tec-9-7]

Originally Posted by FlatLand Flyer

After looking at the kinds of homes you can get for your money, we are really considering Charlotte, but that is over 3000 miles away from both of out families, and we are not sure we would like that.

I'm a native North Carolinian, and I honestly wouldn't care too much to live in Charlotte. In NC the places I'd pick would be Asheville (biased as it's where I grew up) or the Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill area, also known as the Research Triangle. The North Carolina coast/Outer Banks is gorgeous, but you have serious hurricane issues and there's not much of an economy there apart from tourism...

[FlatLand Flyer]

Originally Posted by oberon

You haven't said what your priorities are, but I guess your main priority is where you can get jobs and housing cost?

These would be our biggest priorities. We will both have massive student loan payments to take care of. She should be able to make pretty decent money right out of the gate. I probably won't. This means that we have to be able to afford rent and all the bills, so housing costs are a big concern.

Job market is also very important. We have to be able to get jobs. Tourism helps neither of us. I don't want to be a sightseeing pilot. Charlotte seems to have a healthy flow of air traffic and has a lot of law firms and corporations that need lawyers.

We talked about it again tonight and we are leaning towards taking the gamble and giving Charlotte a go. We figure you only live once and it could be a great opportunity for us.

Then again if it sucks, we can always get the hell out of dodge.

[Phory]

As a long time Portland resident, I always had assumed AZ was a horrible place for no particularily good reason. Recently I've spent some time there and several occasions and I was surprised by how nice it can be there. I haven't been into the heart of Phoenix but the Fountain Hills and Scottsdale areas (these are suburbs of Phoenix) seem very nice. The scenery is beautiful, and just like Portland your about an hour drive away into some beautiful mountain scenery. Coming from Oregon's crumbling infrastructure, It's nice to drive on wide well-maintained roads for a chane, as well. Even though Phoenix has one of the "hottest" housing markets, it seems like it's still really affordable.

[josie]

Hey Flatland Flier - Just saw this thread. I concur with Asheville as a really nice place to live. In terms of outdoor activities, you've got the Blue Ridge Mountains and the Smokies are nearby and there are rivers to raft on, etc., etc. The downtown has been revitalized and is a fun place and it's become a center of Appalachian culture and music which is fun. The housing used to be really cheap - but is rising now - so now would be a good time to get in there - and the schools are pretty good as far as schools in NC go, so if you're thinking of having kids in the future you'd be all set. Not a lot in terms of winter sports though - you'd have to travel to West Virginia for that.

I lived in Asheville, and in Chapel Hill in NC (known as the Triangle, along with Durham and Raleigh). I went to graduate school at UNC- Chapel Hill and loved Chapel Hill at that time, but moved back there four years ago and it's just a different place now- word got out about how great it is to live there and it's become pretty much a yuppie haven - totally overdeveloped and has lost that little village feel it used to have, which made it such a great place. Now it's gated communities and traffic everywhere - I might as well have been living in NJ (which is where I grew up and never wanted to live again- too urban for me). Don't know much about Charlotte - except that it's cheaper than Chapel Hill in terms of housing - but yeah you should be able to find a job there.

I didn't see Maine on your list at all. Beautiful scenery, four seasons (well, almost- if you blink, you'll miss Spring - in fact it's called "mud season"). But housing is very affordable, great quality of life, always something to do outside in every season (great winter sports) and summer and fall are just exquisite. We moved there from NC for what was supposed to be a two years stint. I was really negative about moving, but ended up loving it and we lived there twelve years. If you are planning to have kids - greatest place in the world to raise them - very down to earth people with real common sense and values. It doesn't have a lot of large cities, except Portland, which is a fun city and is a little milder (in terms of climate) in the winter than the more northern, inland portion of the state. I've lived in Texas, NJ, NY, Pennsylvania, NC and Maine, and out of those - if (when) I have the option, I'll go back to Maine to live-it's just got it's own distinct flavor to it that is different than any other place in the US, I think, and I loved it.

Just as an aside - I'm living in the UK right now in Somerset. Love it as well- in fact it reminds me a lot of Maine. If anyone ever has the opportunity to live abroad - grab it - it's the best decision I've ever made.

[Catdaddy33]

Tennessee is a nice place especially the middle and eastern part. I lived in Knoxville for a while and nice scenery and a small city. I currently live outside Nashville and love it, the city is not to big and not to small. It has growing pains, they keep at least 2 interstates under construction at all times, prices are reasonable and low unemployment..

[snowy]

Originally Posted by Phory

Coming from Oregon's crumbling infrastructure, It's nice to drive on wide well-maintained roads for a chane, as well.

Hey now, Portland is just suffering from some growing pains. They recently resurfaced all of I-205 and are in the process of widening the Sunset Highway. It was high time they resurfaced I-205...the ruts were driving me crazy.

Besides, compared to the Midwest and the NE, our roads are a dream come true. You want to see crumbling roads, visit Rochester, NY

[sailor]

As for Charlotte, I've lived there all 20 years of my life. Personally, I'm not the biggest fan of it, for a couple of reasons:

1) I like colder weather. Charlotte has no winter, just a wet, 40 degree and grey period. I don't need arctic conditions, but its frustrating when its just above freezing and raining. Though I guess if you're from the Pacific NW, you can deal with that.
2) Sprawl. Charlotte is taking after Atlanta, with suburbs farther than the eye can see--takes 45 minutes to go from one end of Charlotte to the other. Though I must say, the downtown is absolutely exploding, in a good way. Im away at school right now, and even when I go back every other month or so, I can notice how fast downtown has grown. It's actually turning into a very nice place.
3) Charlotte itself has little in the ways of outdoor activities--there are 3 lakes (actually more like muddy, extremely overcrowded rivers) nearby, but I was spoiled and grew up going to visit family in Charleston (ocean; or nearby a real, i.e. round, clear water, sand bottomed lake) or camping in the mountains. There are good mountain bike trails there though.
4) Rather conservative politics. I'm pretty liberal, and some of the stuff I hear people say there irks me. Nothing bad, it's just a good-old-boys town, and shows it. Since you come from a pretty blue state, I gotta warn you
5) Never really liked the racing culture, with which Charlotte is obsessed. NASCAR is huge in Charlotte.
6) If you don't like humidity, you won't like Charlotte. Welcome to the south. It's not terribly bad, but it has more than a few days that make you feel like you're walking in a boiling swimming pool.

Good things about Charlotte:
1) Lots of growth and business. It's one of the banking centers of the country. Both Bank of America and Wachovia are based here, and between the two, they pretty much own the city and employ an extremely large number of Charlotteans. And like I said, the city is bursting at the seams in growth. I've worked at BofA for several years, my father works there, and I know many others that do, and its a pretty good place to work. This is by far the biggest problem I see with Asheville--I'm not sure it would be easy for ya'll to find professional jobs there.
2) Some good schools. Myers Park High School, a public school, was the 7th highest ranked high school in the country the year I graduated. Providence is also an extremely good school, and there are several good private schools around. UNC has a branch there too, with many professional and night classes, as does the community college, which has several branches around the city. Also, you have Chapel Hill, Duke, and Wake Forest, some of the best schools in the country, 2 hours a way if you need/want any sort of post-grad education.
3) Charlotte is almost equidistant from beaches (SC, near Charleston) and the mountains. Take your pick. Its 2.5 hours to the mountains, 3-3.5 to the beach.

Admittedly, I may be somewhat biased since I grew up there, and thus always sorta hated it (but mom, theres NOTHING to do here!), and also since I'm not quite of drinking age yet, so a lot of that sort of entertainment has been denied to me.

[Suave]

Sacramento? I can't say much about it (if I were to give you any real advice they'd all end up being Canadian cities. ).

[Dungeon_Shade]

I would suggest Boulder, CO. It has alot of stuff to do around it, and the town itself (in my opinion) is beautiful. Pearl Street Mall is amazing, and there is always something to do since it is a college town.

Then again, I am a little biased, as I grew up there for a while.