filtherton

Not if my cock was in her mouth. Words are words, right? Just let me know when you get offended, i'll apologize.

Just because you believe that someone need not be upset by your actions (words are actions too), doesn't mean they don't have the right to be justifiably offended by your words. You don't get to choose how people interpret what you say. It doesn't make any sense for you to say insensitive shit, and then blame someone else for your inability to communicate effectively.

I understand the context. What is unclear to me is how you find it justifiable to call some girl you probably know very little about a ho. If i were your "bro" in that situation, i'd probably tell you to fuck off if you came at me like that. Whatever happened to "bros getting laid before bros needing to get up early"? Perhaps things would be simpler if you were to say, explain your position and why it would be favorable to you if you didn't have to hear your bro have sex until the wee hours of the morning.

I generally tend to agree that the world could use thicker skin. Seeing you claim that words are just words proves to me that you've never taken a psychology class where trauma was covered. Words shape the way we look and think about the world. Read 1984 for an interesting perspective on the power of language and vocabulary.

The words you choose to use say a great deal about you. I hear someone use the word ho, and i tend to think that that person feels insecure when confronted by women who are comfortable with their sexuality. It's almost as if they don't know their place around women who aren't bamboozled in to complying with the norms of american gender politics. I'm not offended, just getting a clearer picture of who that person is. I would imagine that a person who uses the word ho seriously also likes to use the word dyke for lesbians he doesn't find attractive.

I would argue the word ho is nearly always offensive, because it is nearly always used by emotionally stunted people as a means to make themselves feel better by comparing themselves to a sexually promiscuous woman. Ho is a loaded word. It is a vague word, it lacks complexity. It is used as an insult by intellectually lazy people. There is no use of the word ho, except perhaps in an ironic way, that doesn't seek to belittle a woman based on her sexual behavior, behavior which just happens to be encouraged in men such as yourself. Ask yourself: Why do i feel like i need to make myself feel superior to a sexually promiscuous woman? Why do i feel the need to denigrate certain women because of alleged sexual promiscuity? Why do i feel the need to pay attention and make judgements on people based on their sexual behavior, even when said behavior has nothing to do with me whatsoever? Why is it okay for me to act like a ho, but not okay for a woman i don't care about to act like a ho?

Jesus Pimp

Wow this thread needs more cowbell!

__________________
Never date anyone who doesn't make your dick hard.

spindles

Personally, I would not use the word "Ho" in a sentence. I'm not offended by it per se, but just don't see this kind of language as a step forward.

Also, I seem to recall in my younger years cheering if one of my mates looked like getting laid - more power to him - who am I to stand in his way?

__________________
who hid my keyboard's PANIC button?

chickentribs

While the concept of B's before H's should mean "loyalty to friends" which in itself worthy, I don't respect somebody who refers to people differently in front of them vs. behind them.

If you refer to women as "ho's", I would question your need to belittle others, and your lack of intelligence in resorting to low common denominator language. Stupid isn't fun for anybody.

__________________
Oft expectation fails...
and most oft there Where most it promises
- Shakespeare, W.

Jesus Pimp

Sorry but women who prevent their boyfriends/husbands from having any social life outside their relationship don't deserve any respect in my book. That was the intent of my other thread but some of you so called intellectual prudes have nothing better to do than bitch about a non-pc word rather than discuss the issues of closed relationships and the need for social interaction

__________________
Never date anyone who doesn't make your dick hard.

maleficent

And these boyfriends/husbands don't have enough of a backbone to actually stand up to these women? They don't deserve respect... They aren't worthy of friendship... It goes both ways... People can only do to you what you allow them to do -- if the guy puts up with it -- it's not the woman's fault -- it's his.

__________________

Jesus Pimp

What if they're blackmailed and have no other choice? Is it still the guy's fault? Let's say if the guy steps one step out the door to hang out with his buddies, his wife threatens to leave and take all his money and their kids? If you bail out on your friend because of that you don't have much backbone yourself.

__________________
Never date anyone who doesn't make your dick hard.

maleficent

Yes, it is still his fault for letting it get to that point.. Did he not realize what this woman was like before the first child? Did she justs turn into a harpie overnight? No< I think not... He shares the blame.

__________________

Jesus Pimp

Some guys don't realize it until it's too late (Pussy has a way of hindering judgement.) and yes some women can turn into harpies over night.

Bros to the end.

__________________
Never date anyone who doesn't make your dick hard.

maleficent

... and why would you want to be friends with a guy who's so stupid to have his head turned so easily by a female?

and to refer to a woman as 'pussy' is equally as demeaning...

The opposite sex are called WOMEN... they are people - living breathing thinking people... they are not just sex organs there for the pleasure of men...

__________________

Ustwo

The feeling I get is that Jesus Pimp really needs some pussy, badly.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Jesus Pimp

I was referring to the vagina not the person. Sheesh..

I'm not that weak sorry..

__________________
Never date anyone who doesn't make your dick hard.

streak_56

Take a look at the context it was in. It was not meant to offend, it was meant to provided humour to a certain topic. When I chose 'ho' over 'bro,' I didn't mean that my girlfriend was not a hoe, I meant that I would choose her.

Squishor

If you wanted to discuss the issues in any kind of intelligent way then you could start by using intelligent language. Calling someone a whore is an insult, so why be surprised when they are insulted? It looked like "ho" was a generic term referring to women in general, not specifically, "dominating women who are threatening and conniving and blackmail men into losing their friends." Otherwise how are people going to know what you're even talking about?

Jesus Pimp

Why would a woman be insulted by the word ho if she previously wasn't a ho in the first place? Obviously you're not intelligent enough to understand the context of the previous thread.

__________________
Never date anyone who doesn't make your dick hard.

Squishor

I was trying to take a constructive approach and you resorted to calling me stupid. That really helps clear things up.

Jesus Pimp

Because you just don't get it.

__________________
Never date anyone who doesn't make your dick hard.

the_marq

So far the poll is saying that this is the most popluar answer:

I am so gratified that I can use offensive language so long as I use it in a rhyme. Next time I am in a meeting with one of my black co-workers I'll be sure to ask her:

"What do you figure, nigger?"

Since it rhymes she will certainly see how clever I am being and not be offended and we'll all have a good laugh over it.

__________________
The Truth:

Johnny Cash could have kicked Bruce Lee's ass if he wanted to.

#3 in a series

Ustwo

Somewhere out there, a pot and kettle are having a conversation.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

maleficent

Amen, brotha, Amen...

__________________

Jesus Pimp

Their names are Ustwo and Maleficent. They ponder the drudgery of their lives.

__________________
Never date anyone who doesn't make your dick hard.

ShaniFaye

I really dont think that was called for

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

la petite moi

HEY! I HATE WHEN PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD INSULT OTHER PEOPLE! JESUS CHRIST, PEOPLE HAVE OPINIONS, OKAY?! THAT DOESNT MEAN THEY'RE "NOT INTELLIGENT ENOUGH"...

If you started a thread with questionable rhymes/topics/etc, expect some criticism. Both sides, however, should learn how to keep their insults to themselves.

/rant

Ustwo

Laugh, if you could only be so lucky to be me

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Jinn

My thread.. its crummmmblliinggggg... my precssiioussss.... Stop bickering!

That aside, my SO and I have come to agreement that "Bros before SOs" is perfectly acceptable for me to say, because its just as much a catch phrase without being offensive.

As far the "it's a rhyme for the ease-of-use" option I provided, the position behind that stems from this "youth culture" that many of you are seperated from -- which is not necessarily a bad thing.

"Bros before hos", whether locally or nationally, is used by teens alike, and I've even heard it perpetuated by quality media like MTV. It would be nearly impossible for me to say "Man.. bros before hos" to a male compatriot in my age demographic and have it misunderstood. So the argument was seemingly that it only gained popularity and thus maintained meaning because it is a popular "catchy" phrase. Removing the rhyming scheme and saying a more PC phrase, like "Longterm friends before the sexually-permiscuous girl that you are with" would be both inconvenient and unncessary. It might even be misunderstood. The advantage of adoption into trendy-slang increases your likelihood of being understood by your peers, but also misunderstood by other groups of people. "What do you figger, nigger" obviously doesn't have this large exposure, and would be considered by the whole to be offensive. I personally voted for that option, because I beleive "ho" was used just becuase it rhymed and was easier to remember than "Bros before girls" or something of a simliar nature.

"Bros before SO's" is close enough to the rhyming scheme to not be misunderstood by my undereducated demographic, without objectifying or labeling women, so I've chose it as a nice middle ground. thx emotional20.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

Gilda

I voted yes. I found the phrase offensive, though I was not upset and I did reply in the thread.

I see several problems with the phrase in general.

First, it seems to imply that if a man chooses to spend time with a woman rather than his existing male friends, it must be because she is sexually promiscuous and they are having sex. It seems to dismiss the possibility that a man might want to spend time with a woman because he enjoys her company, or for any reason other than sex. It seems to me to reduce women to less than human status.

The two terms are not equal. Brother is a general positive way to refer to a man, and implies equality; whore is a generally negative way to refer to a woman and implies inferiority.

Context makes all the difference in the world. The phrase wasn't used in the context of a boy talking casually to his peers, it was used in the context of a thread title on a general discussion message board frequented by both more mature men and a large number of women. In that context, it was offensive. Using the bolded form, or some other less offensive description, in this context, would have worked equally well.

A problem occurs when people take the slang of their subculture and use it outside the context of that subculture. Part of the problem is that the word may have a completely different meaning or connotation outside that subculture that is more offensive. For example, I have to stamp out the casual use of "gay" and "retarded" in my classes at the beginning of each year. How they talk with each other when they are in casual conversation doesn't concern me. How they use language in my classroom and in my presense does, particularly since many of them seem to genuinely not know that "retarded" does not actually mean "a person or thing of which I disapprove" ourside of their subculture. Indeed, many seem not to understand that language has different meaning depending upon context, and that one needs to adjust one's diction as appropriate for a given context. In other words, the way to talk to your friends, especially if your language uses a lot of group specific slang, is often inappropriate when talking to others outside your social group.

Using a more polite phrasing could easily have communicated the same message without the offense.

__________________
I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that.

~Steven Colbert

SiN

__________________

filtherton

Perhaps his friends are completely fucking worthless individuals who will only bring him down, i.e. he is in recovery and they're your average insecure alcoholics. Perhaps he really doesn't care that much for you, and is pawning off his unreceptiveness on his wife. Perhaps you just cling to this junior high notion of "brodom" which hinders your ability to see the world that exists beyond the oversimplified "friends vs girlfriends" paradigm.

trib767

Well I never really heard that one before. I thought you were referring to "Bros" that great pop group from the late 80's early 90's

Cynthetiq

OMG!!! I can't believe that someone else knows that band...

When Will I Be Famous, Cat Among the Pigeons

and who can forget... I Owe You Nothing.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Jinn

Gilda, I agree completely. That's what I was trying to say in my post. How though, would you suggest people determine if the other person belongs to their "subculture" -- there's all sorts of lingo that are specific to these subcultures that are NOT offensive, and they are a perfect example. In fact, I have many as a Computer Geek, often very unfamiliar to those out of my "zone." If I dont use these words, someone might get offended that I was treating them like an idiot. Or this not an apt metaphor?

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

eMOTIONal20

You're welcome. Thank you for taking my views into consideration. Sorry if being appreciative came a little late.

__________________
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi

Gilda

No, that's a good example. I have friends who are computer geeks, too, and I'm a comics nerd myself.

Usually it's pretty obvious whether a person is part of your in group. If in doubt, it's probably best to assume not until you know otherwise, and use a moderate level of diction, using standard American English (in the US) and adjusting on the fly as needed. If I'm with my comics group, I'll use shorthand like, for instance, the term retcon without thinking about it and without explanation. If I were talking to someone who isn't a comics nerd--and we're pretty easy to spot--I'd be more likely to use an explanation (retcon--retroactive continuity, or changing past events to fit the present).

In the case of the thread title in question, the thread was on a public message board frequented by a large number of people of various ages, ethnic backgrounds, political viewpoints, etc. Using colloquial slang that included a word usually intended to be demeaning to women was taking a risk of misunderstanding and/or offense.

My students quickly get a lesson in proper diction in my classes at the beginning of the year. Saying something is "gay" or "retarded" with your friends as a form of insult is fine with me. Doing it in my classroom or when speaking to me is not. Learning to adjust your level of discourse to match the situation as appropriate is a big part of maturing.

__________________
I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that.

~Steven Colbert

Hardknock

Thicker skin people, thicker skin.....

ShaniFaye

If having thin skin means I dont speak on a juvenile level....I'll stay thin skinned if its all the same

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

filtherton

You miss the point. You can't communicate effectively if you offend the people to whom you are speaking. It is also difficult to communicate effectively with people when you blame them for being offended at your poor choice of words.

eMOTIONal20

thick-skinned (thksknd)
adj.

1. Having a thick skin or rind.
2. Not easily offended.
3. Largely unaffected by the needs and feelings of other people; insensitive.


No thanks. I'd rather be thin-skinned and care about how I'm affecting other people.

So, if I'm thought of as "easily offended" then so be it.

__________________
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi

Paq

just chiming in when i probabyl should be keeping my trap shut, but i think hardknock was referring to number 2 of the definitions, not number 3.

In general, in my everyday dealings wiht people, i'm pretty careful about how i affect others. I am generally the most concerned person around and i generally care about how others feel bc i have often been mistreated, but i'm also pretty thick skinned as well. It takes quite a bit to really offend me. Calling my mother a Ho probably isn't gonna do it in general. Calling me whatever probably isn't either, but I wouldn't be the one going around sayign these things to others

so am i thick or thin skinned?

__________________
Live.

Chris

majik_6

With total disregard to the argument that has ensued from this thread, here's my take on the OP's question:

In a certain circle of friends that I've had for quite sometime, the phrase is somewhat common. It's not meant in a demeaning way. The translated meaning (from "playa" into regular mature English) is this: "Don't let a purely sexual encounter that means nothing more than a mindless fuck harm or otherwise damage the friendship of the current company, whom you know will be by your side through thick and thin and ultimately when the random person that you picked up tonight has fucked you over or you're no longer interested in her." That's it. It isn't meant as an insult. Just a reminder that although the current fling will most likely fade, the friends will be there. It's a way of saying not to blow off your true friends for something fleeting.

Do I agree with calling women ho's in a derogatory blanket manner? Hell no.

And that's why I never found this all that offensive. My friends (male AND FEMALE) all knew that this was in no way a comment on women as a whole. It was just a reminder that friends are forever.

This isn't meant to be used towards a woman, but towards a situation. It's a way of trying to remind a friend to respect the friendship that he has cultivated over time and not let it slip away for sheer sensual pleasure. It's not meant to degrade women or to even discourage anyone from entering a relationship or spending time with their significant other.

Could it have been better worded? Sure thing. But the thing is, I doubt anyone on this forum is responsible for the spread of this phrase in pop-culture.

And truth be told, above the explanations and pop-culture acceptance, the reason it doesn't bother me is that I've gotten to a point where I'm just not that easily offended by words.

Want to call me a greasy Italian piece-of-shit? Go for it. I'm proud of my last name and background.

Wanna call me a cracker or a honky or a W.A.S.P? Have at 'er.

Think my long hair and beard makes me a dirty hippie? You'd be wrong, but you're more than welcome to voice it.

I can see where some people (especially anyone that has a different understanding of the phrase than the usage I'm accustomed to) would be offended. But overall, I don't think it was ever meant to be hurtful or in any way demeaning.

__________________
it's all about self-indulgence

Vincentt

Bro before ho.

Well this really means "friends before sex"
But that isn't as catchy.

The point here is "ho (hoe?)" bothers some people.

Frankly, this is a phrase that should only be used by guys anyway.
So a girl shouldn't hear it, to be offended.

I hate being called a 'bro' and that isn't quite the same as "ho".

But I have used "bros before hos" I have some friends who fall off the face of the earth when they get a girl friend.. then come back when they break up.

Why is it so hard to hang out with more then one person? Co-dependent people.
I dunno, but I and my best friends are able to have a girl-friend and friends at the same time.

I think "pussy-whiped" and "bros before hos" are good, however badly worded, phrases on dating/friend relationships.

No one cares about 'hen-picked' even though it means the same as pussy-whiped.

It is all about the words, and people who are looking to get angry at something.

__________________
.