saltfish

Hello all...

I stopped by the Heath & Fitness forum for a little advice from those here at the TFP.

I have been on the Atkins (Low Carb) diet for about 4 weeks; I
m down 18 lbs so far. I'm feeling great, tons of energy, stamina, and no longer CRAVE food.

Now, here is where I need the advice.

I'm getting really tired of eating a 1/2 lb of bacon a day, really, I've eaten like 20 lbs of bacon in the last month. I'm looking for a great Atkins breakfast, maybe even some variety.

Also, I would like to ask what kinds of food that fellow low-carbers like to eat between meals.

Next, what kinds of excercises are reccomended for low-carbers? I remember another post that says that cardio is bad for your liver while on Atkins? I'm assuming that as long as you're drinking enough water and eating properly, it shouldn't be a problem?

Thank you everyone! Stay healthy!

-SF

sailor

Cardio is damn near impossible while on Atkins. Thats why the diet is useless for anyone who does aerobic exercise. The body feeds on carbs when active--if you dont have any carbs, youll have no energy. When you try the cardio, its going to hurt. Youre going to feel completely lethargic, overly tired, and generally just hate it. If you used to do long distance cardio, imagine the worst bonk you have ever felt, and then imagine feeling like that almost from the start.

Thats not to say Atkins doesn't have its place. Its just that if you are trying to do cardio while on it, forget it. Maybe some weights?

Congrats on the weight loss

__________________
"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws."
--Plato

saltfish

I'm really not worried about the lack of energy, I can just walk for an hour; I'm much more concerned about the liver toxicity that had been mentioned in another thread. I'd like to exercise more, but I love my liver! I've quit driking while on atkins, I've removed aspertame, nitrates (I gave up my bacon).

As of now, I'm not going to run until further notice.

-SF

Seaver

Yeah Atkins diet is only good if you are seditary.

If you work out you NEED the carbs or your body destroys itself. Your liver goes, your brain cells dont get the energy they need and start to die. Your lungs start to fill with liquid because they can not effectively keep up (require lots of energy to draw out the oxygen). Lots and lots of very bad things happen if you work out and on the Atkins.

I suggest you decide what you like better. If you want to work out check out the Zone diet, you say you dont crave the food as bad, and it keeps your meals very well balanced. The biggest complaint is they stay hungry the entire time. Pastas with meats in them (chicken alfredo, spaghetti, etc) are very good if you are serious about working out.

If you are goign to work out twice a week or so stay on the atkins for the week, the night before the day you work out carb up. You will burn off the carbs the next day, and you can stay seditary the rest of the week with no weight gain (if you do it right).

Cowman

If I were you, I'd start to slowly work myself off of the atkins diet and more into an active lifestyle. It'll be damn near impossible to, like you said, keep eating that food for the rest of your life. It's much easier to incorporate activity into your diet and eat sensibly..

__________________
You don't like my point of view..but im insane

Seaver

Besides the guy who made it... was obese with a heart condition. Doesnt say much for the diet.

If you cant tell I hate the Atkins diet and the fad it has created.

__________________
"Smite the rocks with the rod of knowledge, and fountains of unstinted wealth will gush forth." - Ashbel Smith as he laid the first cornerstone of the University of Texas

saltfish

I know for a fact that there was a "Low-Carb" diet back in the seventies, before Atkins himself came up with the plan. It was used by bodybuilders to help promote lean muscle mass and remove excess fat. Those guys are still around. That gives me the reassurance that its relatively safe. Now, there are people on the atkins diet that do nothing but eat, all the time, and they eat things that should only be consumed in moderation. Those people scare me.

I'm pleasently suprised with my state of mind and level of energy that I am experiencing with the diet. I don't ever have the 'sugar-crash' after a carb-rich meal and I have almost quit taking my ADHD medicine.

As for success stories, my father has lost more than 100 lbs and his HDL and LDL cholesterol levels have completely turned around are are in great shape.

As for my mother, being on the south beach diet, she no longer has her hot-flashes, her 20-year struggle with acid reflux is completely gone and she has never felt better.

Proof like that makes me beleive that this diet can work well for some... ...when done correctly.

-SF

Cowman

That low carb diet stuff in the 70's you're referring to was also started by Dr.Atkins. He came up with the idea a LONG time ago, and yet never managed to capitalize on his own diet and died overweight.

__________________
You don't like my point of view..but im insane

Spartak

According to his BMI ?

Where the B stands for Bullshit.

__________________
I can read your mind... looking at you... I can read your mind...

Cowman

According to looking at him.

__________________
You don't like my point of view..but im insane

apeman

if people wobble for more than a minute when you slap their gut, it means they're overweight

__________________
pain is inevitable but misery is optional - stick a geranium in your hat and be happy

maleficent

The Scarsdale Diet created by Dr Tarnower in the 70s (Jean Harris murdered him some time later) I think he was the first low-carb diet around..

__________________

hannukah harry

both of you have very simplistic and minimilistic views on how the body works. i would have to say i disagree with both of you.

atkins may have died overweight (not the cause though), you're making the assumption that he was on the diet and that was the cause of his death. many older people (he was in his 70's) who have been thin all their life become overweight in old age.

__________________
shabbat shalom, mother fucker! - the hebrew hammer

sailor

Simplified? Maybe. But the fact remains, the body runs on carbs. Try doing any exercise without having eaten any carbs. Not very easy, is it? Its why I bring carbs (usually gels) along when doing my cycling training--about every 45 minutes, when my body has gone through its stored glycogen, I need more. Guess where that comes from? Carbs. Its the same for any workout, not just cycling. The body runs on carbs, plain and simple.

Thats not to say the Atkins diet doesnt have a place. If you are seriously obese, the benefits of losing the weight probably outweigh the risks associated with such a diet. Not to mention that when you are 150lbs overweight, you cant exactly do much in the way of exercise in the first place. Its a good way to get some of that weight off--but once you do, adopt a more sustainable diet and start exercising.

__________________
"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws."
--Plato

hannukah harry

actually, the body runs on energy, not carbs. carbs, in the form of blood glucose, are just the quickest supply (not counting the PC system because it isn't long term). the body fuctions pretty well on ketone bodies too... the brain and most other non-muscle organs can live on ketones alone, although it's less efficiant than glucose (one reason why i don't think it's a good long term diet).

anyways, i have done exercise on the atkins diet. i had about 30 pounds that i wanted to drop and drop quickly. i would run an hour a day on it. it's possible, and it's easy. the catch is that you can't perform as well as you would on a normal diet. instead of running at my normal pace of about 5.5 mph, i found i could only keep about a bit more than a 4mph pace.

so obviously, if you're in competition training, or just looking to make improvements, something like atkins isn't the way to go. but if you're trying to lose weight, you can exercise on without difficulty, just don't expect to work at the same level your used to because you're working off of minimal blood glucose and mainly the slower burning fat.

a definate downside to the diet is that you will probably lose some muscle weight. weight lifting might keep you from losing it. the idea is to eat a lot of protein so that the ingested protein is used for gluconeogenisis instead of muscle protein.

finally, if you're gonna do it (saltfish), don't eat bacon... avoid super fatty foods, stick with fish, poultry, some cheese, eat your vegetables, nuts (almonds have been shown to lower BP) and make sure you use supplements (vitamins, calcium, fiber, etc). have red meat and pork sparingly. and find low-carb products that don't have a lot of sat. fats and trans-fats, partially hydrogenated fats.

for clarification, i dont' think it's a good long term thing to be on, but if you've got more than 10-15 "vanity" pounds to lose and can't seem to stick with other diets, i think it's a decent option.

__________________
shabbat shalom, mother fucker! - the hebrew hammer

StephenSa

Okey Dokey, another Atkins thread. I'll poste my usual story for what its worth. I lost fifty pounds in three months while on Atkins. Never much of a bacon eater. I consumed salmon, chicken, lean red meat and pork chops, spinach, broccoli, and brussel sprouts, took vitamins and drank LOTS of water. I also started exercising. I started walking which turned into jogging which then included weight lifting. I exercised a lot! I also continued Atkins. Your body adjusts. The first two weeks were a bit hard but then you are fine. This was three years ago and I have kept the weight off. Also I recently had a full physical including blood work and am in great shape. My cholesterol etc. were all in the excellent range and my blood prreesure fine. Serious bodybuilders have used high protein low carb diets for years and seem pretty healthy to me. Also, Atkins doesn't reccommend excluding all carbs. For the induction period you are limited to twenty grams a day of good carbs then you slowly introduce more carbs to your diet as you progress. Exercise is an essential part of any weight loss program including Atkins. Exercise is recommended in the Atkins book which if you are on the diet or commenting on the diet one should first read. As for Dr. Atkins death, he slipped on ice and incurred a major head injury. Much of the weight gain happened while he was in a coma in a hospital bed due to fluid retention and inactivity. His heart condition was a congenital condition not linked to diet. I saw an interview with him on NBC about a year before his diet and the man was NOT obese. At seventy years old he might have had a bit of a paunch but nothing out of the ordinary for a man of his age. I also read an article where a reporter interviewed several diet gurus. His comments on Dr. Atkins is that he seemed thin, not unhealthy but a bit pale. At least get the facts about the man's death right. He died from an unfortunate head injury. His heart condition might have eventually killed him but it did'nt. He died from a fall. Regardless, the diet works. There are several that do, including of course simply watching ones caloric intake and burning off more than you take in through exercise. For me, Atkins was a god send but whatever one chooses bully for them for taking action steps to improve their lives.

__________________
Thousands of Monkeys, all screaming at once. Pulling God's finger.

StephenSa

I'll have to second Hannukah Harry on the almonds suggestion. They were a great snack to have while on the diet and helped satisfy any minimal cravings to just "crunch something" sometimes! Also I cooked with olive oil, full of nice anti-oxidents and I like the flavor. For a change try grilling your fish or chicken outside for a smokey flavor and cheese makes everything taste better!

__________________
Thousands of Monkeys, all screaming at once. Pulling God's finger.

Seaver

Yes, but serious bodybuilders dont do cardio.

They work out for 15-30 min at a time, usually 3-4 times a day. If you ask a bodybuilder to run a mile he couldnt do it if his life depended on it. They dont do cardio because it leans out their muscles and they cant build it up. So low carb diet is great for them. I'm sticking by the research I've done and will say that if you're in relatively good shape (only 15-20 lbs overweight) the atkins diet is only good if you're seditary. If you're in decent shape and work out do the zone or some other diet and keep active.

If you're 50-100lbs overweight do the atkins with water based workout. Will lead to quick weight loss and is easy on your joints until you get your weight down enough to start running.

pocon1

Hiya seaver. I don't believe that you have ever actually trained like a bodybuilder before. I have. You definitely do cardio. For me, running was effective for weight loss. Once I got below 200 lbs, running almost became fun. I got to the point where I was running 3-4 miles 4-5 days a week. When I did my show, I was 5'8" tall, weighed 182, and had about 8.5% bodyfat. You don't lift weights 3-4 times a day, at most you do twice, but usually you are so tired you do once a day. About 1 to 1.5 hours a day of weights. You cannot build muscle at this point, you are just trying to retain with postworkout meals, and a fair amount of protein.

hannukah harry

and what research have you done? do you have any first hand knowledge? what about anecdotal evidence? have you held double-blind trials?

there are some people i know who when trying to do the initial two weeks find themselves to be very lethargic. but i know other people who feel like they could run forever. and i have personal experiance of that. but yeah, if you're only 15 pounds overweight, you really shouldn't be doing it.

__________________
shabbat shalom, mother fucker! - the hebrew hammer

Cowman

No

Atkins had the first big one, in the early 70's. There were a few ones before that that wern't very popular, and scarsdale diet came out in the late 70's.

__________________
You don't like my point of view..but im insane

Boo

I love Atkins posts. Atkins works.

I hope everyone posting has read the book, and understands the rules and principles.

I use menu options like chicken breast taco salad, tuna fish, tuna salad, chicken salad, cole slaw, more salad, lean steaks, egg white omlets and lots of veggies.

Avoid alcohol, it is a show stopper. You can be in ketosis and not lose weight if you are drinking enough (been there).

Take your supplements.

Exercise in the fat burning heartrate for your age group and other factors. Increase duration. Use weights to maintain muscle.

It works for me.

__________________
Back button again, I must be getting old.

Seaver

One of my best friends is a SGT in the Marines. He tried for 4 years to go pro as a bodybuilder but enlisted when he got married to pay the bills. What I know about bodybuilding is from him.

Not to demean you, but I weighed 195 with 7.9% bodyfat in highschool. I know how to build muscle. With those stats it's hard to believe you were a bodybuilder. I managed to get better stats than you while working out just during sports practices and didnt even bother to gague my meals.

The bodybuilders I was talking about are those you see in magasines who go for muscle bulk, whome my friend was striving to be.

Research by Journal of American Medicine, asking half a dozen doctors, reading on collegic sports programs, lots of reading. No first hand knowledge, the drawbacks I've read from all these made me decide it wasn't for me.

Sun Tzu

No one has mentioned what the brains primary source of energy is. It's not ketones.

__________________
To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

saltfish

I think Hanukkah Harry said it best...

-SF

sadatx

An interesting quote from Webmd:

Once the glycogen is gone, the body does turn to fat as a fuel source. But in reality, fat is an inferior energy source compared to glycogen. It's like trying to run a car on lighter fluid, says John Acquaviva, PhD, assistant professor of physical education at Roanoke College in Salem, Va. "In ketosis, the body does burn a higher percentage of fat, but overall, less calories are burned," he tells WebMD.



Full article: http://my.webmd.com/content/article/...tselectedguid={5FE84E90-BC77-4056-A91C-9531713CA348}

Couple of things I've noticed being on atkins and atkins type diets:

My muscles shrunk.

My energy was low.

I dreamed about friggin' shredded wheat and brown rice (no shit.)

I became stupid. And my "brain fog" didn't clear after two weeks as some people like to claim it will.

My digestive system was hurting due to the lack of fiber (even though I was eating a ton of vegetables, truth is without carbs it was hard to get enough fiber).

It was difficult to stay well hydrated even though I was pounding the water.


Now, of course you can exercise when on a low carbohydrate diet (I've certainly done it.) But is being on a low carb diet necessary? Is it optimal? Is it healthy? Is it worth it in the long run?

From my experiences, I feel the answer to all these questions is no.

The best and healthiest way to lose fat is to burn it through exercise.

There are two groups that I'm aware of that should be on a Ketogenic Diet: epileptics (it helps them keep their illness under control) and those who are insulin insensitive (most people are not despite what you might have read).

It's great that you can lose weight on Atkins. But, in my opinion, one needs to adopt a well rounded diet and get in the habit of exercising to be successful long term. So why not skip the Atkins and do this first. Slow and steady wins the race against fat.

By well rounded diet I mean:

Lean meats, Fish

Whole grains (like brown rice, old fashioned oatmeal, barley, etc.)

Healthy Fats (found in nuts and seeds, avocado, salmon, etc.)

Lots and Lots of Vegetables (variety is key)

Lots of fruit (better in the morning time)