Did I do the right thing? What would you have done? - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

KnifeMissile · 10-28-2003, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr Mephisto
The original poster said that 'once a cheat, always a cheat' (paraphrased). That's just nonesense, as I said. You cannot say that it "WILL happen again" (and I'm quoting the post here).

You believe a single act makes you out to be a serial offender (of whatever offence or act you carried out)?

What's the point in using a rape as an example? That's beyond contempt.

Please read my post, again.
I think it's pretty clear that I was addressing your use of the rhetorical question "let me guess. You've NEVER made a mistake in your life." I even said in my previous post that "will a cheater necessarily cheat again? Of course not..." Why do you insist on attacking me on a pont I didn't make?

The point of using rape as an example is to compare infidelity to an equally deliberate act that's also reprehensible and hurtful.
Is it as bad as rape? Obviously not, but the severety of rape does emphasize my point.

For someone who came down so hard on sillygirl, you're easily offended...

KnifeMissile · 10-28-2003, 10:07 AM

Orignial post:

Quote:

Originally posted by Kyo

Cheating is a premeditated action, and therefore falls closer to murder and rape than you would think. In all cases, it requires you to make a concious decision - in this case, the wrong one - about your actions. And you must make the decision with full knowledge that there is a right way and a wrong way.

Response:

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr Mephisto

You live in a strange world if you think cheating is close to rape or murder.

He didn't say they were close. He said that they were closer than you might think and then he gave you his reasoning. Then you respond with an inflammatory remark that borders on ad hominem? Think about this before you post a response...

Kyo · 10-28-2003, 10:48 AM

Mr Mephisto:

- Maybe the person was confused? Maybe the alchohol affected their judgement? These are valid excuses because ...? If I kill someone, telling the family that "the alchohol affected my judgement" is such utter bullshit I would be embarassed to say it. The fact that anyone can even think to say this is just unbelievable. And what's to say that the person won't become 'confused' or drunk again?

- Say a person has lied to you. Would you trust them as much as someone who doesn't? If not, why not? You can't say that they will definitely lie to you again, but you trust them less anyway - doesn't this seem unjustified?

- Trust? Forgiveness? When dealing with a murderer, that's suicidal. Trust can get you hurt a lot faster than most other human follies. And no, I don't believe in rehabilitation, I believe in justice. The two are mutually exclusive in my book.

- If doing something once makes it easier to do again, it argues liklihood - in particular, higher. If she cheated once, it is more likely to happen again. Credibility can't be repaired. Everyone will remember what you did, and everyone will think less of you because of it. Whether you do it again or not, you've done it in the past, so you are now less of a person.

- Cheating is similar to rape, murder in that they are premeditated actions where it is abundantly clear to the perpetrator that what they are doing is wrong. But in terms of severity, cheating isn't that far behind more heinous crimes, in my opinion. Why wouldn't it be? Has betrayal become such a trivial thing in America? Because it is so widespread, has it become acceptable? Treason is punishable by death, and you owe more to your spouse than you do to your country.

- In all honesty, I don't think it matters whether you definitely will cheat again. That was the point I was trying to make in my 200-person serial murderer case. If I murder 200 people, it doesn't matter if I'm going to kill another person - 200 is 200 too many, and I am obviously not a person to be trusted around a weapon. No one can prove that anyone else is definitely going to do anything. We can only talk about degrees of possibility.

- I don't think there is anything wrong with going behind a person's back when they are doing something you believe is wrong. If you are doing something that you wouldn't want witnesses to, you shouldn't be doing it at all. The husband deserved to know - it is his wife, after all, that betrayed him. Attempting to shift the blame from the criminal to the witness is very like America.

I used to think there was such a thing as honor, but really, what kind of fucking idiot would think that?

alkaloid · 11-03-2003, 07:08 AM

Kyo, it's either funny or creepy that you make a rather extensive comparison between cheating and rape and serial murder. I do not believe that infidelity is at all comparable to rape and murder. It is very strange to find out that some do.

Laws of most civilized world agree with me. Cheating is frowned upon but is perfectly legal in most of the industrialized world. Perhaps it is okay in Afghanistan or Jordan to mutilate and murder women for cheating or having been raped, but I say that it reflects badly on their society.

Mephisto2 · 11-03-2003, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KnifeMissle
Please read my post, again.
I think it's pretty clear that I was addressing your use of the rhetorical question "let me guess. You've NEVER made a mistake in your life." I even said in my previous post that "will a cheater necessarily cheat again? Of course not..." Why do you insist on attacking me on a pont I didn't make?

I wasn't. I suppose I should have said "One cannot say...[/b] but the third person is often overlooked in modern speech.

Quote:

For someone who came down so hard on sillygirl, you're easily offended...

Two points.

1) I'm not offended by anything you said. I just disagree with the sweeping generalizations of a previous poster.

2) Whilst I still think I was right, I posted immediately afterwards saying that I hope I hadn't come across too harsh. Read the thread.

Mr Mephisto

Mephisto2 · 11-03-2003, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KnifeMissle
Orignial post:

He didn't say they were close. He said that they were closer than you might think and then he gave you his reasoning. Then you respond with an inflammatory remark that borders on ad hominem? Think about this before you post a response...

It's a valid retort.

I think the comparision is unreliable and inflammatory. It therefore adds no value to the discussion. If anything, that was ad hominem, in so far as it was appealing or referring to emotions rather than logic.

I also included a conditional clause in my statement.

Think about reading and understanding what I post before you comment.

Mr Mephisto

Mephisto2 · 11-03-2003, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kyo
Mr Mephisto:

- Maybe the person was confused? Maybe the alchohol affected their judgement? These are valid excuses because ...? If I kill someone, telling the family that "the alchohol affected my judgement" is such utter bullshit I would be embarassed to say it. The fact that anyone can even think to say this is just unbelievable. And what's to say that the person won't become 'confused' or drunk again?

Well, I'm afraid in the much vaunted American justice system, such "excuses" do exist and are recognized in law. Have you ever heard of the "Twinkies defence" for example?

Quote:

- Say a person has lied to you. Would you trust them as much as someone who doesn't? If not, why not? You can't say that they will definitely lie to you again, but you trust them less anyway - doesn't this seem unjustified?

Would I trust someone who lied to me as much as someone who didn't? It really depends upon my relationship with them. If they were a friend who had lied and it was a stranger who hadn't lied, then of course I would trust them more.

The simple "black and white" logic you use is not the foundation of my value system.

Quote:

- Trust? Forgiveness? When dealing with a murderer, that's suicidal. Trust can get you hurt a lot faster than most other human follies. And no, I don't believe in rehabilitation, I believe in justice. The two are mutually exclusive in my book.

Well you must live in a very emotionally cold world. I imagine very strict and harsh personal relationships if not a single infraction of any of your rules can ever been forgiven.

It's also a shame you don't believe in rehabilitation.

Quote:

- If doing something once makes it easier to do again, it argues liklihood - in particular, higher. If she cheated once, it is more likely to happen again. Credibility can't be repaired. Everyone will remember what you did, and everyone will think less of you because of it. Whether you do it again or not, you've done it in the past, so you are now less of a person.

LESS of a PERSON?

Good grief.

Quote:

- Cheating is similar to rape, murder in that they are premeditated actions where it is abundantly clear to the perpetrator that what they are doing is wrong. But in terms of severity, cheating isn't that far behind more heinous crimes, in my opinion. Why wouldn't it be? Has betrayal become such a trivial thing in America? Because it is so widespread, has it become acceptable? Treason is punishable by death, and you owe more to your spouse than you do to your country.

I'm simply astounded that you equate rape and murder to someone cheating on a girlfriend or fiance. I'm glad I don't have a personal relationship with you, and I mean that with respect. I simply cannot understand anyone whose minds works like yours.

Quote:

- I don't think there is anything wrong with going behind a person's back when they are doing something you believe is wrong. If you are doing something that you wouldn't want witnesses to, you shouldn't be doing it at all. The husband deserved to know - it is his wife, after all, that betrayed him. Attempting to shift the blame from the criminal to the witness is very like America.

They weren't married. Reread the original post.

Mr Mephisto

KnifeMissile · 11-04-2003, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr Mephisto
I wasn't. I suppose I should have said "One cannot say... but the third person is often overlooked in modern speech.

[/B]

Well, you could have used the third person but that still doesn't address my point, here.

I was commenting on your rhetorical question "you've NEVER made a mistake in your life." Then you retorted by saying how the original poster was making sweeping generalizations. What does one have to do with the other? The generalizations were something I did not address.

Quote:

Two points.

1) I'm not offended by anything you said. I just disagree with the sweeping generalizations of a previous poster.

2) Whilst I still think I was right, I posted immediately afterwards saying that I hope I hadn't come across too harsh. Read the thread.

When I said you were easily offended, I was not referring to the generalizations, I was referring to your comment "using a rape as an example? That's beyond contempt."

Yes, I did notice that you said you hoped you didn't come across too harsh.

KnifeMissile · 11-04-2003, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr Mephisto
It's a valid retort.

I think the comparision is unreliable and inflammatory. It therefore adds no value to the discussion. If anything, that was ad hominem, in so far as it was appealing or referring to emotions rather than logic.

I also included a conditional clause in my statement.

Think about reading and understanding what I post before you comment.

What's a valid retort? My retort? Your retort? His retort? I'm confused...

I can understand if you think the rape comparison was inflammatory but "unreliable?" What do you mean by that?
You must understand that you think it was inflammatory (probably 'cause it inflamed you). Obviously, I didn't or I would never have posted it. Your reaction to the subject matter aside, it was a fair comparison. Bad deeds aren't necessarily forgivable and it all depends on where you draw your line.

Yes, you did include a conditional clause and, I suppose, "living in a strange world" is a mild insult. Perhaps the Tilted Politics board has turned me reactionary.

I read all responses to my posts but I can't guarantee that I'll understand them!

Mephisto2 · 11-04-2003, 08:04 PM

This is making my head hurt.

Let's just agree to disagree.

Mr Mephisto

oberon · 11-05-2003, 06:35 AM

I would dump a friend who wasn't honest in their proceedings, at least from my point of view. No good can come from something like that. I guess it would depend on how much you depend on your friend.

In summary, as far as I'm concerned, you should find a new best friend.

I totally agree with Sparhawk about how lies spread. Don't get trapped in one just for a friend.

Kyo · 11-05-2003, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by alkaloid
Kyo, it's either funny or creepy that you make a rather extensive comparison between cheating and rape and serial murder. I do not believe that infidelity is at all comparable to rape and murder. It is very strange to find out that some do.

Laws of most civilized world agree with me. Cheating is frowned upon but is perfectly legal in most of the industrialized world. Perhaps it is okay in Afghanistan or Jordan to mutilate and murder women for cheating or having been raped, but I say that it reflects badly on their society.

Funny? There is nothing funny about any of this. But maybe it's creepy to people that morals might actually be worth someone's life. That betrayal is serious, not just some trifling social gaffe.

As we have discussed at length in the philosophy forum, laws and morals have almost nothing to do with each other. Whether laws agree with you or not is entirely irrelevant. I will break the law when it disagrees with my morals, because obviously one's personal morals are worth more than any official law.

In this case, I don't believe cheating should be legal at all. But of course, to enforce that we'd have to put the large majority of the American population in jail, and that simply isn't practically feasible. Sort of how I believe alchohol and smoking should be illegal, except that it isn't possible.

If I discovered my spouse was cheating on me, I'd have nothing to do with her for the rest of our natural lives. It would only take one strike, and she'd never hear from me or see me again.

Mr. Mephisto:

- Yes, I have heard of such 'defenses', and I think they're bullshit. They make me sick. I don't think very highly of our 'vaunted American justice system.' Not a single person that I grew up with does. We've seen first-hand just how 'effective' it is.

- I'd trust the stranger about as much as my 'friend'. But you introduce a new variable with a stranger - motive. A stranger could have any number of reasons to lie to you that you couldn't even fathom. Oh, and about the friend. Several 'friends' lied to me about something pretty serious a few years ago and they are no longer my friends.

- Emotionally cold world? It's strict, yes. But how does that have anything to do with trusting a criminal? A shame that I don't believe in rehabilitation? You have got to be kidding me. If someone murders my friend or relative, why would I ever want him rehabilitated? I would want him dead. Did his victims get a second chance? No. Then why should he get one? He should die like the worthless scum he is. An eye for an eye, a life for a life. But he got his second chance, because of our 'vaunted American justice system.'

- Yes, less of a person. Where's the problem with that? If someone is known as a liar, wouldn't you think less of him? If someone you knew was cheating, wouldn't you think less of them? If so, then they are no longer equal to the person they used to be - they are somehow less in your eyes.

- If I am married, I have made a very serious commitment, a vow - till death do us part. This sort of vow is worth something to me - it is worth my life, if need be. You say you can't understand anyone whose mind works like mine. Similarly, I can't understand anyone who could take such a situation so lightly. I don't understand so much of what Americans do and put up with. If someday I get married and cheat on my spouse, I will kill myself. After all, that is the vow I took.

JimmyTheHutt · 11-05-2003, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sparhawk
When my friends do something morally reprehensible, I tell them very straightforwardly: "Look, I'm not going to make you face the music or anything, you know in your heart that what you did was wrong. I'm not going to tell the other party, but I am absolutely NOT going to lie for you."

I call it "calling them on their bullshit". I expect the same treatment from them.

In this situation I would have a really tough time making the call. It's fairly difficult either way. The question it comes down to is one of personal integrity. I will not allow someone else, even my friends, to abuse my trust so that I violate my own personal standards. They know what they can ask me to do and what they can't. If they don't want me making their life miserable as a result, they make sure I don't find out about it. Or they try to, anyway. I have a knack for putting little pieces of things together. In this case I would have been very clear that the friend could not expect me to assist them by lying or assisting them in a coverup. They made the choice and get to live with the consequences. If asked, I would have told the truth. I'm not sure I would have volunteered it though.

Veritas en Lux!
Jimmy The Hutt

Mephisto2 · 11-05-2003, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JimmyTheHutt
They made the choice and get to live with the consequences. If asked, I would have told the truth. I'm not sure I would have volunteered it though.

I think you hit the nail on the head.

Mr Mephisto

Mephisto2 · 11-05-2003, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kyo
Mr. Mephisto:

- Yes, I have heard of such 'defenses', and I think they're bullshit. They make me sick. I don't think very highly of our 'vaunted American justice system.' Not a single person that I grew up with does. We've seen first-hand just how 'effective' it is.

The point I'm making is that nothing is black and white. In the real world there are degrees of grey.

Quote:

- If I am married, I have made a very serious commitment, a vow - till death do us part. This sort of vow is worth something to me - it is worth my life, if need be. You say you can't understand anyone whose mind works like mine. Similarly, I can't understand anyone who could take such a situation so lightly. I don't understand so much of what Americans do and put up with. If someday I get married and cheat on my spouse, I will kill myself. After all, that is the vow I took.

Erm... OK.

You seem to set yourself very stringent and unyielding standards. So be it. I take it you don't believe in divorce then?

Mr Mephisto

Kyo · 11-06-2003, 06:20 PM

Being drunk or being confused isn't an acceptable 'degree of grey.' They're both dark enough to be called black. I don't know which is sadder, someone dying because you wanted them dead, or someone dead because you couldn't stay sober.

No, I don't believe in divorce. If I take the vow, I'm going to keep it, regardless of what it costs me. Always keeping your promises teaches you not to make them lightly - something a lot of people need to learn. I don't know about you, but honor is still worth something to me. Of course, in today's society, I'm just an idiot, because honor is for losers that don't like to have fun and fuck whoever they want, lie, steal, and cheat to get what they want, and in every way take advantage of and abuse other people for their own personal benefit.

If asked, you would have told, but you wouldn't have volunteered the information? Say you witness a robbery. Furthermore, assume you are the only witness. Don't you think it is your duty to step forward with the information? Would somebody have to explicitly ask you for this information? What if it were murder?

If you would volunteer information in those cases, why wouldn't you volunteer it in this case? If anything, she told him a little late - she should have told him before the marriage to begin with. I think there's a clause in there about "speak now or forever hold your peace."

Eldaire · 11-06-2003, 06:37 PM

You did fine. Don't worry about it.

Sunrise · 11-06-2003, 07:00 PM

You did do the right thing - I'd be pissed off if it happend to me
but marriage after just 3 months !? Seems too soon!

sillygirl · 11-06-2003, 09:02 PM

Kyo - I did tell them before they got married... and at the reception, he was awesome as always and chatted with me. She, on the other hand, was as obvious as she ever is when she's pissed at someone. I didn't even give him information he didn't already have!

I don't recall who mentioned this, but I remember reading somewhere in here that if she wasn't asking me to lie for her, then I should have stayed out of it. (something to that effect, not quoting anyone). Well, she did in fact ask me to lie for her. She wanted me to be okay with her telling him that the hickey on her neck was, in fact, a curling iron burn (he believed her when she said it) and that if he DIDN'T believe her, to tell him that I gave it to her. She also asked me to back her up in any lies that she told him just in case he ever asked me if it was the truth. I was not about to cover her ass when I knew she'd just turn around and do it... AGAIN... like she has all the other times. Any of the guys in the club we hang out with that have met her have been informed (by her) of her nipple rings, have been shamelessly (and cheaply -- if that's a usable word here) flirted with, and know how she is when she's around guys. It WOULD happen again.

Kyo · 11-07-2003, 06:54 AM

That this sort of woman could even imagine getting married is sickening. If I saw someone like her killed in the street, I think I'd be smiling.

macmanmike6100 · 11-07-2003, 06:42 PM

very very brave, but if you want assurance that you did the right thing, you've got it from me

Mephisto2 · 11-09-2003, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kyo
That this sort of woman could even imagine getting married is sickening. If I saw someone like her killed in the street, I think I'd be smiling.

Now that's just too much.

You need therapy dude...

Mr Mephisto

sillygirl · 11-09-2003, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kyo
That this sort of woman could even imagine getting married is sickening. If I saw someone like her killed in the street, I think I'd be smiling.

I may have no respect for what she did, but that crossed the line...

Kyo · 11-09-2003, 05:37 PM

"The" line? Your line, you mean? The line that society drew for you?

That woman crossed my line. You do not openly flirt with guys, sleep around while engaged, ask your friends to lie to your future husband, and then proceed to get married. To me, she is beyond respect, redemption, or mercy. I don't hate her enough to go to jail for it, so I'm not going to discipline her myself, but if someone else wants to do it I'm certainly not going to stop them.

Therapy for what, Mr. Mephisto? For having a concrete set of strict morals?

sillygirl · 11-09-2003, 05:42 PM

Quote:

"The" line? Your line, you mean? The line that society drew for you?

Yes, my line. The line that I draw when someone talks about one of my friends that way. The line that I draw when someone talks about anyone that way.

I know it's "interesting" to some that I'd jump in and defend my friend like this, but for someone to wish her dead is over the line. People do not need to die for things like that. Face the music, yes. Have to deal with the shitty things she's done, yes. But not die. People have done worse things than that to me, and I did not want them dead, either.

Mephisto2 · 11-10-2003, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kyo

Therapy for what, Mr. Mephisto? For having a concrete set of strict morals?

Therapy for saying you would smile if you saw someone, who didn't happen to share your sense of morals, die.

Judging from your posts on this thread you are verging on the sociopathic.

Mr Mephisto

Kyo · 11-10-2003, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sillygirl
Yes, my line. The line that I draw when someone talks about one of my friends that way. The line that I draw when someone talks about anyone that way.

I know it's "interesting" to some that I'd jump in and defend my friend like this, but for someone to wish her dead is over the line. People do not need to die for things like that. Face the music, yes. Have to deal with the shitty things she's done, yes. But not die. People have done worse things than that to me, and I did not want them dead, either.

Defend? She is indefensible.

Then I ask you - what would it take for someone to 'need to die'?

Mr. Mephisto, millions of people have been put to death (and still are today) for not having the 'correct' set of morals. Would you be happy if you saw a serial killer die? Would you be happy if you saw a rapist die? A drug dealer? Why or why not? I would certainly be happy.

A sociopath is defined by a handful of traits:
not learning from experience
no sense of responsibility
inability to form meaningful relationships
inability to control impulses
lack of moral sense
chronically antisocial behavior
no change in behavior after punishment
emotional immaturity
lack of guilt
self-centeredness

Of these, I am guilty only of one - self-centeredness, as I impose my morals on others when I judge them. But tell me - who is not guilty of that?

telekinetic2 · 11-12-2003, 12:25 AM

Kyo, I believe we could easily come up with the money to have you sterilized so that we are assured that you do not decapitate your child for wetting the bed and lying to you about it.

wannabenakid247 · 11-12-2003, 08:55 AM

I personally am inclined to agree with Mr Mephisto.

Although i can see it was an awkward situation i would not have intervened

Kyo · 11-12-2003, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by telekinetic
Kyo, I believe we could easily come up with the money to have you sterilized so that we are assured that you do not decapitate your child for wetting the bed and lying to you about it.

Hah. Save your money, kind sirs. I intend to do the world a favor and remain childless.

10-28-2003, 10:48 AM	#43 (permalink)
Kyo Crazy	Mr Mephisto: - Maybe the person was confused? Maybe the alchohol affected their judgement? These are valid excuses because ...? If I kill someone, telling the family that "the alchohol affected my judgement" is such utter bullshit I would be embarassed to say it. The fact that anyone can even think to say this is just unbelievable. And what's to say that the person won't become 'confused' or drunk again? - Say a person has lied to you. Would you trust them as much as someone who doesn't? If not, why not? You can't say that they will definitely lie to you again, but you trust them less anyway - doesn't this seem unjustified? - Trust? Forgiveness? When dealing with a murderer, that's suicidal. Trust can get you hurt a lot faster than most other human follies. And no, I don't believe in rehabilitation, I believe in justice. The two are mutually exclusive in my book. - If doing something once makes it easier to do again, it argues liklihood - in particular, higher. If she cheated once, it is more likely to happen again. Credibility can't be repaired. Everyone will remember what you did, and everyone will think less of you because of it. Whether you do it again or not, you've done it in the past, so you are now less of a person. - Cheating is similar to rape, murder in that they are premeditated actions where it is abundantly clear to the perpetrator that what they are doing is wrong. But in terms of severity, cheating isn't that far behind more heinous crimes, in my opinion. Why wouldn't it be? Has betrayal become such a trivial thing in America? Because it is so widespread, has it become acceptable? Treason is punishable by death, and you owe more to your spouse than you do to your country. - In all honesty, I don't think it matters whether you definitely will cheat again. That was the point I was trying to make in my 200-person serial murderer case. If I murder 200 people, it doesn't matter if I'm going to kill another person - 200 is 200 too many, and I am obviously not a person to be trusted around a weapon. No one can prove that anyone else is definitely going to do anything. We can only talk about degrees of possibility. - I don't think there is anything wrong with going behind a person's back when they are doing something you believe is wrong. If you are doing something that you wouldn't want witnesses to, you shouldn't be doing it at all. The husband deserved to know - it is his wife, after all, that betrayed him. Attempting to shift the blame from the criminal to the witness is very like America. I used to think there was such a thing as honor, but really, what kind of fucking idiot would think that? __________________ Sure I have a heart; it's floating in a jar in my closet, along with my tonsils, my appendix, and all of the other useless organs I ripped out.

11-05-2003, 06:35 AM	#51 (permalink)
oberon Quadrature Amplitude Modulator Location: Denver	I would dump a friend who wasn't honest in their proceedings, at least from my point of view. No good can come from something like that. I guess it would depend on how much you depend on your friend. In summary, as far as I'm concerned, you should find a new best friend. I totally agree with Sparhawk about how lies spread. Don't get trapped in one just for a friend. __________________ "There are finer fish in the sea than have ever been caught." -- Irish proverb Last edited by oberon; 11-05-2003 at 06:37 AM..

11-06-2003, 06:20 PM	#56 (permalink)
Kyo Crazy	Being drunk or being confused isn't an acceptable 'degree of grey.' They're both dark enough to be called black. I don't know which is sadder, someone dying because you wanted them dead, or someone dead because you couldn't stay sober. No, I don't believe in divorce. If I take the vow, I'm going to keep it, regardless of what it costs me. Always keeping your promises teaches you not to make them lightly - something a lot of people need to learn. I don't know about you, but honor is still worth something to me. Of course, in today's society, I'm just an idiot, because honor is for losers that don't like to have fun and fuck whoever they want, lie, steal, and cheat to get what they want, and in every way take advantage of and abuse other people for their own personal benefit. If asked, you would have told, but you wouldn't have volunteered the information? Say you witness a robbery. Furthermore, assume you are the only witness. Don't you think it is your duty to step forward with the information? Would somebody have to explicitly ask you for this information? What if it were murder? If you would volunteer information in those cases, why wouldn't you volunteer it in this case? If anything, she told him a little late - she should have told him before the marriage to begin with. I think there's a clause in there about "speak now or forever hold your peace." __________________ Sure I have a heart; it's floating in a jar in my closet, along with my tonsils, my appendix, and all of the other useless organs I ripped out.

11-06-2003, 09:02 PM	#59 (permalink)
sillygirl Newlywed Location: at home	Kyo - I did tell them before they got married... and at the reception, he was awesome as always and chatted with me. She, on the other hand, was as obvious as she ever is when she's pissed at someone. I didn't even give him information he didn't already have! I don't recall who mentioned this, but I remember reading somewhere in here that if she wasn't asking me to lie for her, then I should have stayed out of it. (something to that effect, not quoting anyone). Well, she did in fact ask me to lie for her. She wanted me to be okay with her telling him that the hickey on her neck was, in fact, a curling iron burn (he believed her when she said it) and that if he DIDN'T believe her, to tell him that I gave it to her. She also asked me to back her up in any lies that she told him just in case he ever asked me if it was the truth. I was not about to cover her ass when I knew she'd just turn around and do it... AGAIN... like she has all the other times. Any of the guys in the club we hang out with that have met her have been informed (by her) of her nipple rings, have been shamelessly (and cheaply -- if that's a usable word here) flirted with, and know how she is when she's around guys. It WOULD happen again. __________________ Anyone can be passionate, but it takes real lovers to be silly-Rose Franken ....absence makes me miss him more...

11-07-2003, 06:54 AM	#60 (permalink)
Kyo Crazy	That this sort of woman could even imagine getting married is sickening. If I saw someone like her killed in the street, I think I'd be smiling. __________________ Sure I have a heart; it's floating in a jar in my closet, along with my tonsils, my appendix, and all of the other useless organs I ripped out.

11-03-2003, 07:08 AM	#44 (permalink)
alkaloid Dead Inside Location: East Coast, USA	Kyo, it's either funny or creepy that you make a rather extensive comparison between cheating and rape and serial murder. I do not believe that infidelity is at all comparable to rape and murder. It is very strange to find out that some do. Laws of most civilized world agree with me. Cheating is frowned upon but is perfectly legal in most of the industrialized world. Perhaps it is okay in Afghanistan or Jordan to mutilate and murder women for cheating or having been raped, but I say that it reflects badly on their society.

11-04-2003, 08:04 PM	#50 (permalink)
Mephisto2 Junkie	This is making my head hurt. Let's just agree to disagree. Mr Mephisto

11-06-2003, 06:37 PM	#57 (permalink)
Eldaire Loser Location: Davidson College, NC	You did fine. Don't worry about it.

11-06-2003, 07:00 PM	#58 (permalink)
Sunrise Crazy Location: Melbourne, Australia	You did do the right thing - I'd be pissed off if it happend to me but marriage after just 3 months !? Seems too soon!

11-07-2003, 06:42 PM	#61 (permalink)
macmanmike6100 High Honorary Junkie Location: Tri-state.	very very brave, but if you want assurance that you did the right thing, you've got it from me

11-09-2003, 05:37 PM	#64 (permalink)
Kyo Crazy	"The" line? Your line, you mean? The line that society drew for you? That woman crossed my line. You do not openly flirt with guys, sleep around while engaged, ask your friends to lie to your future husband, and then proceed to get married. To me, she is beyond respect, redemption, or mercy. I don't hate her enough to go to jail for it, so I'm not going to discipline her myself, but if someone else wants to do it I'm certainly not going to stop them. Therapy for what, Mr. Mephisto? For having a concrete set of strict morals? __________________ Sure I have a heart; it's floating in a jar in my closet, along with my tonsils, my appendix, and all of the other useless organs I ripped out.

11-12-2003, 12:25 AM	#68 (permalink)
telekinetic2 Loser	Kyo, I believe we could easily come up with the money to have you sterilized so that we are assured that you do not decapitate your child for wetting the bed and lying to you about it.

11-12-2003, 08:55 AM	#69 (permalink)
wannabenakid247 Registered User Location: Wales, UK	I personally am inclined to agree with Mr Mephisto. Although i can see it was an awkward situation i would not have intervened