Strange Famous

On Friday night I went out for a few beers and a meal with some mates.

Walking home at approx 1-30am I walked past some kid smashing up a bus shelter. I guess I was looking at what he was up to with mild interest because he comes out with all this "what you looking at bruv?" stuff. I said "nothing mate" and just carried on walking - Im not going to get into an argument over some bus shelter.

Then 2 of his mates came out from behind a builing, and started giving me a bit of language, calling me a "fat cunt" and other things. Obviously I wasnt happy about that and I turned around and gave them some language back and some advise to be careful what they said now.

I didnt really feel threatened like I was going to be attacked, they were only aged approx 16-18, but from a distance they shouted some more insults, kinding of egging each other on. I came back at them one last time and then walked off, abusive language coming from these kids aimed at me all the way down the road.

It seems like this sort of shit is so widespread where I live now... is it like this everywhere? Kids just trashing stuff, swearing at people, generally anti-social behaviour, etc?

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Pearl Trade

They're teenagers, they do that kind of thing.

By the way, it's not smart to get into a argument with obviously violent people. Just walk away next time.

__________________

Our revenge will be the laughter of our children.
Give me convenience or give me death!

genuinegirly

I wouldn't say that it's normal behavior. But what concerns me is your response. You acknowledged then confronted a group of violent punks. You must be huge and strong if you weren't frightened.... Another thing: why weren't you concerned enough about the destruction of public property to report the incident to the authorities?

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

MSD

Some people are just assholes by nature. When I was a teenager and in my early 20s, I would break shit and come up with new variations on mailbox baseball from time to time (mailbox golf, mailbox hockey, mailbox wrangling,) and it was just because I was immature.

Bullying and vandalism of this sort are ways for insecure individuals to compensate for their own inadequacies by putting themselves in a position of power while maintaining a low risk of negative consequences. They were vandalizing the bus stop under cover of darkness when fewer people were around, and since they outnumbered you they had an advantage and were unlikely to suffer any consequences for insulting you. It's best to ignore them unless you feel you're at risk of being injured so you deny them the pleasure of getting a reaction.

Xerxys

Really, people do that outsuide movies? I mean, I have come to expect that from strange famous but not from others. Anyway, besides detroit and the UK, where else do you get people breaking shit and why have they not been impounded in an approved school?

My mom was one heartless human being in my tween years when I stayed up late one evening and I had failed my end of term exams, she threatened to take me to an approved school. Now, approved schools are effin scary!! Needless to say the wuss in me never got less than B's the rest of that year.

KirStang

Some people suck, some people are great. That's life, I guess?

Baraka_Guru

Many teenagers are confused, frightened, and generally angry. This often manifests into things like these: vandalism, offensive language, violent posturing, etc. They're acting out based on their own damaged sense of self-worth.

Most people grow out of it once they find self-worth and become less selfish and outwardly/inwardly destructive.

I would expect more responsible and balanced adults to not respond to this sort of thing in kind. I would hope that many would understand that these types of teenagers are often those with problems deeper than "I like to wreck stuff and threaten people."

It's anti-social behaviour, yes, but I'm not sure how common it is or how long it tends to go on in most people into adulthood. I think a lot of it takes different, more nuanced forms. They become the people you have difficulty with in the workplace and in traffic, etc.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Strange Famous

Well, with respect - its easy to say what you would do and be mature about it when you are just talking about it

If youve had a couple of drinks, and you are actually standing there with some group of little toe rags giving you all this lip I submit that it is not so easy to turn the other cheek.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

dlish

what you needed to do to win them over is break the bus shelter with them

__________________
An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere

I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay?
- Filthy

Baraka_Guru

Well, would this, then, be more of a question of your own conduct than the conduct of these youths?

As for myself, even after a couple of drinks, I'm not one to take an eye for an eye. In these types of situations, I don't think that's usually the best course of action. I usually have better things to do than parley with that sort.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Amaras

I avoid teenagers whenever possible. I take public transportation, so it's not easy.
I don't think they are any worse than I was at that age, though.

__________________
Propaganda is to a democracy what the bludgeon is to a totalitarian state.
-Noam Chomsky
Love is a verb, not a noun.
-My Mom
The function of genius is to furnish cretins with ideas twenty years later.
-Louis Aragon, "La Porte-plume," Traite du style, 1928

Jinn

Israeli teenagers are less unruly - they're made in Israel.

Just sayin'..

Ever since I moved to what Shauk called the 'rich bitch neighboorhood' I haven't seen any crime.. not even jaywalking. I really think this sort of anti-social behavior has more to do with age than anything else. That period is all about bucking the norms, telling people what you think about their social customs, etc..

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

Strange Famous

So smashing up a bus shelter and swearing at a stranger isnt an issue, but is the stranger swears back it is?

I think thats a pretty biased view of the world

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Baraka_Guru

I never said that the former part wasn't an issue; I merely stated that the latter part seems to be what should concern you more.

You mentioned that it is difficult to turn the other cheek after having a couple. Maybe you should consider sticking to just one if you wish to have more discipline in such situations.

Besides, you already admitted that you weren't invested in the situation of vandalism. What you were responding to was the bit that included you. Are you okay with responding to them in kind?

Responding in kind is not an issue if you're okay with it. I wouldn't be okay with it myself, but that's me.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Pearl Trade

Strange, they could have pulled a weapon on you. Maybe people in the UK aren't worried about getting capped when they see people engaging in violent behavior, but here in 'Murica I'd be pretty scared.

The smart thing to do when you see people being violent is get the fuck out of there. In the very least, if you must watch, stand a good distance away with a nice pair of binoculars.

They might be packing Uzi's, you don't know.

__________________

Our revenge will be the laughter of our children.
Give me convenience or give me death!

hunnychile

Just take care, dear Strange Famous...none of us would be able to cope if you got hurt.

Kids are really cruel. Walk on and just remember that you are above their anal activities.

We care.

__________________
"I need compassion, understanding and chocolate." - NJB

Xerxys

HA! I love you newbies. You will pull every common sense argument that exists like "Strange, they might have pulled a weapon on you" and he will somehow rationalize it away. It is a point of mass curiosity for me why he wouldn't have said "nope, no problem" and walked away. But Strange usually avoids that question so I don't bother askling.

spindles

Not that I want to turn this into a gun debate, but this option wouldn't cross my mind. It is just so unlikely in the country in which I live.

I think a lot of this kind of destruction happens with youths as they aren't paying for it (yet). When it is your tax money paying for that bus shelter, suddenly kicking holes in it doesn't seem as interesting.

I'd probably just ignore it, though I'm hardly ever out late enough to see it any more.

__________________
who hid my keyboard's PANIC button?

Pearl Trade

Haha. I'm well aware of Strange's claims to bear killing and dog takedowns. It's almost like all common sense goes out the window when he hears or sees something aggressive going on. Your pride and confidence will get you hurt some day, Strange. I expect you to keep on keeping on, though.

Option A: GTFO
Option B: Talk some smack, possibly get ass beat/shanked/ended/raped/destroyed/made into a bitch
Which option would just about everyone pick?

I wonder what the best way to take down a bus shelter is...

__________________

Our revenge will be the laughter of our children.
Give me convenience or give me death!

ring

Strange...time & time again you have had physical altercations over words.

Time for talking is over.

I expect you to split the hind legs of any & all creatures that dare to cross your path.

If this mere female can do it to a tiger, I know you can.

LordEden

Grab it by both bus routes and pull. Just remember green line goes to the left and the red line goes to the right. Should take that puppy down in a heartbeat. Just don't get your lines crossed or you will end up at the wrong end of the bad part of town.

*****

Wonder when The_Man is going to come down and wave his warn-hammer around and tell everyone to stop picking on SF.

*****

Teenagers are dumb, I know a lot of people who did really stupid shit when they were teenagers that grew up into real adults that don't destroy other peoples property when bored.

I think there is a time in every dumb, rebellious, "got more sperm than brain cells" teenager takes a look at their own lives and decides to wise up or keep doing stupid shit. Not everyone passes that test and often go on to do stupid shit for the rest of their short lives.

I don't care if I had a weapon or superior numbers, I wouldn't get involved with something like that. No amount of cussing, insults, or comments would make me turn my head around. I don't want to end up in front of a judge trying to defend myself after I shot a hoodlum or end up dead because the hoodlum shot first trying to impress his friends.

No thanks, I'll pass.

__________________
Vice-President of the CinnamonGirl Fan Club - The Meat of the Zombiesquirrel and CinnamonGirl Sandwich

SirLance

I don't give a f**k about their self-worth, destroying property is unacceptable behavior. You should have called the police. I would have detained them for the cops, but I have certain skills most members of the public do not...

__________________
DEMOCRACY is where your vote counts, FEUDALISM is where your count votes.

RogueGypsy

Never put the 'beat down' on a teen. They're like feral animals. Once you show dominance, you become their alpha and who needs a bunch of shitty little punks following you around everywhere..??

It's always easy to come up with a witty comment after the fact, but unless you're a total pussy, just walking away from name calling rarely happens. Certainly not when you're feeling a little loose. So, it is what it is.

Location plays a part too. IF it's your neighborhood, you probably feel a little more comfortable than you would in strange area. Personally if I were strolling through Watts or East LA at 2am..........Okay, well never mind, that could only end badly no matter what.

I usually just snap a pic with my phone and email to the PD.

__________________
Methods, application and intensity of application vary by the individual. All legal wavers must be signed before 'treatment' begins. Self 'Medicating' is not recommend. However, if necessary, it is best to have an 'assistant' or 'soft landing zone' nearby. Any and all legal issues resulting from improperly applied techniques should be forwarded to: Dewy, Cheatum & Howe, Intercourse, PA 17534. Attn: Anonymous.

Strange Famous

If you called the police where I live and tell them someone had smashed a bus shelter they wouldnt do anything about it in the slightest, nor is it very likely that 16 year old kids in Ipswich are carrying guns.

But it wouldnt enter my head to call the police anyway...its not really any of my business and calling the police is pretty alien to my way of thinking.

What I really was intending to discus though was this kind of anti social behaviour by bored kids - swearing, petty vandalism, threats, etc... and how prevalent it was.

---------- Post added at 12:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:11 AM ----------

I think it is an unwritten rule of this site that I am "fair game".

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Xerxys

^^ But strange, whatever discussion you may have intended on having was completely dwarfed by the parallel version of you SWEARING BACK!! Jesus! I mean dude seriously! You want to discuss children behaving badly whilst behaving badly? Your saying irony on that is completely lost on you?

Pearl Trade

Little boy swears at big boy. Big boy swears back. Big boy bitches about little boy swearing at him.

What you did was completely backwards from what you should have done, if self preservation is something you care about. Which I don't think it is, so.

And no, you are not fair game. The evidence of that is the closing of the pitbull vs man thread. You just say some stuff that's unbelievably easy to take shots at with logic and reason and intelligence.

You're saying only a total pussy wouldn't say something back? What about the people who don't want to get mugged, so they keep their mouth shut and keep walking? There's a feeling called fear, in this case it's a good fear that could prevent injury or death. Healthy fear. It's like: "those violent teenage males are busting something up, I don't want to get hurt, so I'm gonna keep moving."

__________________

Our revenge will be the laughter of our children.
Give me convenience or give me death!

Manic_Skafe

Aside from stating that Strange gets an unfair amount of shit around here, I really don't have much to add since I deface public and private property pretty regular basis and it's been a good long while since I've been a teenager.

Perhaps you should've bought those kids a sackful of markers and a block of screen printing lessons.

__________________
"Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

LordEden

Ya know what, nevermind.

__________________
Vice-President of the CinnamonGirl Fan Club - The Meat of the Zombiesquirrel and CinnamonGirl Sandwich

dlish

with a family, i'd have to agree with you 100%. why would i even consider being embroiled in a possible altercation that could leave me injured, out of work or even dead.

looking after myself to enable me to look after my family is not being a pussy. It's called logic.

__________________
An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere

I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay?
- Filthy

Pearl Trade

With a family it's even more important. For me, I just have myself to look out for. I want to live for myself, so I'm not gonna hang around violent people. But for you, it's even more important to stick around in this life. You want to live for yourself, but you also want to live for your wife and kids. Your value is pretty high (no matter who you are), but with dependents walking away from the situation is the only option.

Do you have a family, Strange? People you love? I'm sure you do. You don't want to die a preventable death, they'll hate you for it.

"Think about the children!"

__________________

Our revenge will be the laughter of our children.
Give me convenience or give me death!

SirLance

We either believe in the rule of law or we don't. If we don't then what is the point of bitching about anti-social and destructive behavior? If we do then we should take appropriate action when confronted with anti-social behavior. With a kid, it's sometimes all that's needed to stop them once, and they don't repeat. The do think, it just takes 'em longer sometimes to work it out.

__________________
DEMOCRACY is where your vote counts, FEUDALISM is where your count votes.

dlish

..and thats why we have people that get paid to do their jobs. albeit not a lot, but there's people out there who's responsible to take care of these sort of things. They're called cops.

Vigilantism may work on occasions, probably on many occasions, but causes anarchy at the same time. who's going to police the vigilante's when they think they have the rule of law on their side?

__________________
An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere

I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay?
- Filthy

Baraka_Guru

They're also called social workers for at-risk youth. There are a number of things one can do to address the problem without direct confrontation. This is a symptom of a deeper problem. Smashing the hell out of bus shelters and accosting strangers for looking at them the wrong way isn't indicative of well-adjusted behaviour.

Direct confrontation in this sort of case would mostly lead to aggravation.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Plan9

Holy Macho Bullshit, Batman!

What the?! Ooo, ooo... lemme guess: It burns when you urinate?

C'mon, bro. There's only enough room for one StrangeFamous here.

/has Rambo on DVD and saw Michael Douglas in "Falling Down," too

...

This is a real revelation. Turns out I've been a total pussy my entire life... even while pointing a heavy machine gun at angry peasants. So, bro, you gotta PM me your phone number stat. I wanna call you when Shit Ain't Right (TM) and someone needs a good talkin' to about their future.

Baraka_Guru

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Jinn

I'm glad Plan9 did it - someone had to, but I'm truly a wimp and didn't want to call out someone who could've actually been tougher than me. I thought I was the only one not willing to go to fisticuffs with some kids defending some law that the police ought to be enforcing if we really believe in the "rule of law."

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

Plan9

You're my favorite pussy, Jinn.

Edit: I've seen Taken and understand the "skills" reference. I just felt like dropping a little humor into this chest-thumping circle jerk.

Strange Famous

Look, the police wouldnt turn out to nick someone for smashing a bus shelter. They might where some of you are from, but there's absolutely no chance here.

I wouldnt call the police because (a) there's no point (b) Its not my bus shelter and I couldnt really care less. Talking to police isnt really socially acceptable to me either.

All this stuff about running a risk - I personally think if you act meekly in front of aggressive behaviour you probably increase the risk you run because these kids might think they can get away with it. I didnt exactly up the ante or retaliate physically - I just gave them some language back and made certain warnings about what would happen if they went too far.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Plan9

Well, you just solved your own problem:

You're contributing to anti-social behavior because you refuse to work with the system that has been provided to address it. You don't call or talk to the cops. Whether they do anything or not is irrelevant. You need to do your part as a citizen instead of being an apathetic wanker like everybody else (which is why the system doesn't work in the first place; it starts with Joe Citizen, not the cops). I'm not a law enforcement officer but the two police departments that I interviewed with and did ride-alongs for a year stated that they respond to all calls regardless of how petty. They'll show up if there is a suspected violation of the law (sometimes just to see if anything amusing is happening) simply because they're required to do such (including responding to bitchy neighbors, arguing spouses, prank calls and drunk dials). I don't know how it is in the UK; you guys wear funny hats.

And I personally think that if you step up to a pack of drunk teenagers you're going to get your substantial ass beat if they call your bluff. It's a Top 10 Rule of fighting (number 3, I think): keep the ratios even. You might be able to stand up in front of a bear in the woods and raise your arms and yell to scare it off... but that kinda gesture doesn't do much against human hooligans except make you a bigger target to their beer bottles and makeshift clubs.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."