Should the dead always be respected? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

UKking · 08-18-2008, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Dolores Aguilar
1929 - Aug. 7, 2008

Dolores Aguilar, born in 1929 in New Mexico, left us on August 7, 2008. She will be met in the afterlife by her husband, Raymond, her son, Paul Jr., and daughter, Ruby.

She is survived by her daughters Marietta, Mitzi, Stella, Beatrice, Virginia and Ramona, and son Billy; grandchildren, Donnelle, Joe, Mitzie, Maria, Mario, Marty, Tynette, Tania, Leta, Alexandria, Tommy, Billy, Mathew, Raymond, Kenny, Javier, Lisa, Ashlie and Michael; great-grandchildren, Brendan, Joseph, Karissa, Jacob, Delaney, Shawn, Cienna, Bailey, Christian, Andre Jr., Andrea, Keith, Saeed, Nujaymah, Salma, Merissa, Emily, Jayci, Isabella, Samantha and Emily. I apologize if I missed anyone.

Dolores had no hobbies, made no contribution to society and rarely shared a kind word or deed in her life. I speak for the majority of her family when I say her presence will not be missed by many, very few tears will be shed and there will be no lamenting over her passing.

Her family will remember Dolores and amongst ourselves we will remember her in our own way, which were mostly sad and troubling times throughout the years. We may have some fond memories of her and perhaps we will think of those times too. But I truly believe at the end of the day ALL of us will really only miss what we never had, a good and kind mother, grandmother and great-grandmother. I hope she is finally at peace with herself. As for the rest of us left behind, I hope this is the beginning of a time of healing and learning to be a family again.

There will be no service, no prayers and no closure for the family she spent a lifetime tearing apart. We cannot come together in the end to see to it that her grandchildren and great-grandchildren can say their goodbyes. So I say here for all of us, GOOD BYE, MOM.

Source

Sounds like she must have deserved it.

If you live your life being a total ass to everyone, screw respect just because you finally took your last breath.

Obviously the writer was comforted by expressing their anger.

What do you think?

Iliftrocks · 08-18-2008, 05:25 AM

They say the truth will set you free. I hope that someone told this woman something like this while she had time to change... It is a lesson to anyone reading it, not to treat your family so poorly.

yellowmac · 08-18-2008, 07:17 AM

Wow. Geez... that's ... quite the obituary.

I'm hoping that it's only the recently departed that had issues, and that the rest of the family is relatively normal. Otherwise, this family sounds like it's going to be dysfunctional for quite some time.

I don't think the dead should always be respected. We're better off without Hitler, no?

thespian86 · 08-18-2008, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yellowmac

Wow. Geez... that's ... quite the obituary.

I'm hoping that it's only the recently departed that had issues, and that the rest of the family is relatively normal. Otherwise, this family sounds like it's going to be dysfunctional for quite some time.

I don't think the dead should always be respected. We're better off without Hitler, no?

See I always find the "Hitler" card a little funny; well, not FUNNY, so much as something to think about. What would we be without Hitler? What would they have been without their mother.

Just a thought.

MSD · 08-18-2008, 09:51 AM

Almost nothing should "always" happen. If someone is a miserable person, I'm not going to pretend I like them, even if they aren't around to hear it.

speshul-k · 08-18-2008, 09:51 AM

Death is just a transgression or a part of life. If we can't think fondly of someone while they are alive then really what difference does it make when they are dead?

KellyC · 08-18-2008, 02:26 PM

One of the things that bugs me is how people always say nice things to dead people, as opposed to honest or truthful things about them. If this is the truth about that woman, then so be it.

speshul-k · 08-18-2008, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KellyC

One of the things that bugs me is how people always say nice things to dead people, as opposed to honest or truthful things about them. If this is the truth about that woman, then so be it.

Exactly Kelly, what possible difference does it make if they're alive or dead.

Cynthetiq · 08-18-2008, 03:01 PM

Only if they deserved respect.... otherwise, why bother?

jorgelito · 08-18-2008, 04:07 PM

I think it's more for those that are left behind. In this case, everyone seemed to share the same view so I suppose it's appropriate. But if someone showed up at my mom's funeral and started talking shit about her, there would be a second funeral that day then. It just depends.

sound chaser · 08-18-2008, 04:11 PM

I don't think anybody necessarily has to care if someone dies. I know that might sound bad, but as i read this thread I'm thinking of when Charlton Heston died and the comments posted on anti-gun websites about his passing. Clearly they weren't sad at his passing, were they?

Vigilante · 08-18-2008, 07:01 PM

I doubt I'll be able to make the obituary when the time comes, but if I did, my grandfather would have one like that.

To me, if possible, death of the offensive family member is a good time to let the past go. If you aren't there yet, then I see nothing wrong with the obit above.

kurty[B] · 08-18-2008, 07:36 PM

I have a question?

They say that she had no hobbies, no contribution to society.

Looking at that list of daughters, son, grandchildren and great-grandchildren. I'd feel confident in saying unprotected sex was somehow a hobby of some sort, and that's a whole LOT of people to not be contributing to society. To me, I wouldn't even want to know that family, especially if they don't think they themselves are a contribution to society. They're probably miserable people, and there is a way to "not respect the dead" and not discredit yourself.

If they truly believe their mom did not contribute to society, and are willing to broadcast it to the world, why haven't they committed suicide yet?

I think they would've been better off letting the newspaper write a quip (so and so died, they were born this day, died this day, no services, ceremony or what not will be held. Instead of buying flowers please send your money to these ungrateful assholes).

LoganSnake · 08-18-2008, 07:55 PM

Respect is earned in life. If a person was an asshole before he or she passed and I had to respect for them, why would I respect them after the fact?

Iliftrocks · 08-19-2008, 03:58 AM

Maybe all those kids raised themselves?

Psycho Dad · 08-19-2008, 04:18 AM

Perhaps Dolores Aguilar was abusive or neglectful to her family in general and apparently the writer of the obituary specifically. Nevertheless I think anything the writer of this obituary is looking for would be more easily found in therapy or some other form of counseling than showing their ass this way.

Poppinjay · 08-19-2008, 04:30 AM

Whatever a person's sins when they were alive, I consider it mute when they die. That doesn't mean to put a happy face on an awful person, just consider the issue resolved.

I, too, had thought about the quote about not contributing anything to society while having borne a passel of kids.

Maybe her attitude was shaped by the fact she was preceded by a child in death?

mixedmedia · 08-19-2008, 04:59 AM

I don't think it's necessary to respect the dead, but it's even less necessary to disrespect them. The obituary seems frivolous and totally self-indulgent. Who hasn't had total assholes in their family? And how does this prove a person to be any better? Pfft.

Nimetic · 08-19-2008, 05:23 AM

I was going to say that there's no reason to respect the dead, necessarily.

However this obit. bothers me. To be honest - it does seem a little too hate-filled. (And I say that as somebody who is not always the nicest in the world)

To put that out there formally.... Na, I don't know if that was needed. Somebody else had a good time with her. The children came from somewhere.

LoganSnake · 08-19-2008, 06:18 AM

So just because she birthed some children makes her a good person and make said children owe her something?

Jinn · 08-19-2008, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poppinjay

Whatever a person's sins when they were alive, I consider it mute when they die. That doesn't mean to put a happy face on an awful person, just consider the issue resolved.

I'm with this one. Whatever, the person was an asshole. Now they're a dead asshole. Do I need to become the asshole by belittling someone who can't defend themselves? I think not.

girldetective · 08-19-2008, 07:56 AM

I suppose I would have said what I could about this woman's best or said nothing at all.

Poppinjay · 08-19-2008, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoganSnake

So just because she birthed some children makes her a good person and make said children owe her something?

No, but it doesn't mean they should be vindictive.

abaya · 08-19-2008, 08:19 AM

No, I don't think that being dead earns a person any more respect than they had when they were alive. I have a bad habit of not seeing people any differently after they are dead, and I know that it frustrates the hell out of my family (in the case of my own father, grandma, and step-grandma). They all want me to partake in some kind of dead-person worship of all the great things about those people, to the neglect of all their negative aspects... and I refuse to do it.

However, the obituary in the OP has nothing to do with the dead, and everything to do with the person who wrote it. I echo what others have said... you don't have to respect the dead, at all... but you don't have to embarrass yourself as a person who clearly has issues, by putting something like this in public. Silence would have been a much wiser approach, in my opinion.

sound chaser · 08-19-2008, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poppinjay

No, but it doesn't mean they should be vindictive.

Why not? If she was a bad person, then I don't see any problem.

mixedmedia · 08-19-2008, 11:02 AM

How do you know she was a bad person? Because some anonymous person said so?

There used to be this thing - they called it grace. And people tried to attain it. And doing so meant differentiating yourself from the people who behaved in ways you didn't like. It's a choice that folks can make.

Without it, everyone is an asshole and there's nothing to differentiate from, therefore folks are relegated to judging behavior that is only 'worse than their own.' Which is largely where we are at in this day and age, and it's very frustrating.

There is no sliding scale. You either act with grace and abstain from, for instance, distasteful public displays of vindictiveness, or you don't.

This woman may have been a terrible person, I don't know. But, I do know for sure is that her son is vindictive and tacky. And that is the sort of thing that I try to differentiate from.

Like I said, who hasn't had assholes in their family? My family has certainly had its share. Wah, wah, wah, my mom was mean. That's what I hear.

Again, pfft.

sound chaser · 08-19-2008, 11:08 AM

I may not know she was a bad person. But since I never knew the woman or her children, then I think it's fair to give them the benefit of the doubt.

As for grace, I don't see the issue. In all societies there obviously is a standard of right and wrong behaviour. So in that sense, is it wrong for us to condemn murderers, pedophiles or rapists? These obviously are persons who committed actions that are deemed unethical in our society. I'd think parental abuse of children is also seen as immoral too. On this basis, a labelling of a "bad person" (even if we didn't know the woman in question) perhaps is warranted by the children of this person.

mixedmedia · 08-19-2008, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sound chaser

I may not know she was a bad person. But since I never knew the woman or her children, then I think it's fair to give them the benefit of the doubt.

As for grace, I don't see the issue. In all societies there obviously is a standard of right and wrong behaviour. So in that sense, is it wrong for us to condemn murderers, pedophiles or rapists? These obviously are persons who committed actions that are deemed unethical in our society. I'd think parental abuse of children is also seen as immoral too. On this basis, a labelling of a "bad person" (even if we didn't know the woman in question) perhaps is warranted by the children of this person.

Sheesh. There was no mention of her being abusive. Let alone a murderer, a pedophile or a rapist. And even if she were it would still be tacky and self-serving to post such an obituary.

Yes, grace is the issue. It is the only issue.

sound chaser · 08-19-2008, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixedmedia

Sheesh. There was no mention of her being abusive.

No. But for all we know, she could have been.

Quote:

Let alone a murderer, a pedophile or a rapist. And even if she were it would still be tacky and self-serving to post such an obituary.

I don't really see why personally.

mixedmedia · 08-19-2008, 11:28 AM

Quote:

No. But for all we know, she could have been.

I'm sorry, but how many of your judgements of people are based on information like this? For all you know, the woman was maligned and wasn't any of those things.

I have explained my views pretty clearly and if you just don't see it at all (not that you have to agree) then, frankly, you prove my own observation.

abaya · 08-19-2008, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sound chaser

No. But for all we know, she could have been.

And for all we know, she could NOT have been. I mean really, this has nothing to do with the deceased, as I already said. It has everything to do with the child who obviously had issues. That obituary screams, "I NEED COUNSELING BECAUSE OF MY MOM-ISSUES," far more than it says anything believable or grounded-in-fact about the mother herself.

Grasshopper Green · 08-19-2008, 04:57 PM

I never respected my grandfather - he was a dick and just because he's dead doesn't change that. I wouldn't have written an obit like this for him, though. It like mixedmedia said...what family doesn't have an asshole that an obit like this would fit?

Ayashe · 08-19-2008, 05:29 PM

Funerals aren't for the dead anyway, they are for the living. If this is how the family remembers their ... relative, then so be it. If the family truly wanted to waste their dime posting an insult on not yet cold grave.. go for it. Call that cold and calloused, but I don't see anything truly wrong with it. Personally I would have skipped the notice and had a cheap and simple burial or cremation procedure. Apparently they had a lot to get out of their systems. I find the notion on going to the trouble of making such a notice ridiculous but I have no idea of the trouble that was in that family.

Ilow · 08-19-2008, 07:23 PM

what ever happened to "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all?"

Lubeboy · 08-21-2008, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katyanna

Funerals aren't for the dead anyway, they are for the living. If this is how the family remembers their ... relative, then so be it. If the family truly wanted to waste their dime posting an insult on not yet cold grave.. go for it. Call that cold and calloused, but I don't see anything truly wrong with it. Personally I would have skipped the notice and had a cheap and simple burial or cremation procedure. Apparently they had a lot to get out of their systems. I find the notion on going to the trouble of making such a notice ridiculous but I have no idea of the trouble that was in that family.

I totally agree with you. I think burials are a bit absurd and a total waste. Let's remember our dead love ones by injecting their corpses with fermadahyde, dress them up and paint their faces. Then stick them in an expensive stainless steal box in a cement box in the ground. How is that respecting them? If someone did that to my corpse, I would be pissed. I think a more respectful and efficient way is cremation then sprinkling their ashes into the wind at their favorite place in their life.

buttless1der · 08-21-2008, 06:43 PM

You reap what you sow.

nuff said...

thespian86 · 08-21-2008, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixedmedia

How do you know she was a bad person? Because some anonymous person said so?

There used to be this thing - they called it grace. And people tried to attain it. And doing so meant differentiating yourself from the people who behaved in ways you didn't like. It's a choice that folks can make.

Without it, everyone is an asshole and there's nothing to differentiate from, therefore folks are relegated to judging behavior that is only 'worse than their own.' Which is largely where we are at in this day and age, and it's very frustrating.

There is no sliding scale. You either act with grace and abstain from, for instance, distasteful public displays of vindictiveness, or you don't.

This woman may have been a terrible person, I don't know. But, I do know for sure is that her son is vindictive and tacky. And that is the sort of thing that I try to differentiate from.

Like I said, who hasn't had assholes in their family? My family has certainly had its share. Wah, wah, wah, my mom was mean. That's what I hear.

Again, pfft.

Agreed.

LoganSnake · 08-22-2008, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilow

what ever happened to "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all?"

Freedom of speech and somesuch.

UKking · 08-22-2008, 10:50 AM

I found more on this:

Quote:

John Bogert: Death may not be proud, but it is honest

As obituaries go, this one from the Vallejo Times-Herald sets a standard for brutal honesty.

"Dolores Aguilar, born in 1929 in New Mexico, left us on Aug. 7, 2008. Dolores had no hobbies, made no contribution to society and rarely shared a kind word or deed in her life. I speak for the majority of her family when I say her presence will not be missed by many, very few tears will be shed and there will be no lamenting over her passing.

"Her family will remember Dolores and amongst ourselves we will remember her in our own way, which were mostly sad and troubling times throughout the years. We may have some fond memories of her and perhaps we will think of those times, too. But I truly believe at the end of the day all of us will really only miss what we never had, a good and kind mother, grandmother and great-grandmother. I hope she is finally at peace with herself. As for the rest of us left behind, I hope this is the beginning of a time of healing and learning to be a family again.

"There will be no service, no prayers and no closure for the family she spent a lifetime tearing apart. We cannot come together in the end to see to it that her grandchildren and great-grandchildren can say their goodbyes. So I say here for all of us, goodbye Mom."

This was strange enough to make me check Snopes.com, a dispeller of e-myth, before calling the Vallejo Times-Herald and speaking to Editor Ted Vollmer, who said that the paid obit that ran in his paper Friday and Saturday was indeed real.

"We even requested a copy of the death certificate, something we rarely do, to make sure that it wasn't a scam," said Vollmer, who then gave me the phone number of Virginia Brown, a Seattle resident and the woman who wrote the obituary that is now rocketing around cyberspace.

I caught up with Brown, one of Aguilar's eight children, at work on Monday morning.

"I wanted to do the right thing, the honest thing," said the 54-year-old mother of two. "When she died a co-worker gave me a copy of an obituary she wrote for her father as a kind of writing guide. What struck me was how my mother was none of the things I was reading. She was never there for us, she was never good and she left no legacy. So how could I say any of the usual things about her?"

What you see above is a distillation of eight first-draft pages crammed with the sad story of a woman who, Brown said, probably suffered from never-diagnosed mental disorders that caused her to keep her children unfed, poorly clothed and completely terrorized.

"She was a chameleon. She could make outsiders see her in any way that she wanted while behind closed doors she would beat at least one of us every day," Brown said of her San Francisco childhood. "She left all of us struggling. We just never learned how to cope with life. Our father, meanwhile, was a good man. My only hope for him was that he would outlive her just long enough to know some happiness. Only he didn't."

These bitter memories have kept the many siblings apart. Seeing each other, she said, only dredges up a common past that they all want to forget.

Brown wrote the piece alone but has yet to hear any disagreement from the family members who have seen it in the three days since it ran in her mother's hometown. Nor has the paper received any.

"I wrote the truth," Brown insisted, throwing harsh light on a portion of the death business that routinely has loved ones being borne away to that "better place."

But don't think that I am making light of a reality that we attempt to contain with such benign images. Though a more measured story of lives lived and ended might prove more enriching for those left behind.

As a child, I read newspaper obits for direction, searching for stories of men who did fantastic and selfless things to save others.

I still read the obituaries even though they now come in two forms, the famous-person obit and the paid, formulaic obit like the one stood on its head by Brown.

End-stories of the famous are generally written in advance and maintained in go-condition by big news organizations. These short-form tell-alls fold failures and successes into stories that often tell us everything we need to know about the passing nature of glory.

But ever since newspapers went to paid obituaries we have been deprived of the smaller views of everyday lives. These days it's the "Beloved father of passed away on veteran of member of he loved life survived by." And rarely do we even read the cause of death let alone some telling detail of the good fight.

Occasionally someone will stretch the form to tell us in bought space that, "If there is a heaven, Bob is now hoisting one with God."

Often, when a death becomes news, we run into the usual contradictions. A former gang member shot to death had given up gangs. A felon shot by police had very nearly gotten his life together.

It would seem that there is little need among the living to tarnish even the most wasted lives.

Which is what makes Brown's writing so unusual, so seemingly brutal and so hard to take in a world where we just as soon let our dead depart for that better place without an honest word to inform us or even make us feel.

Cernunnos · 08-22-2008, 11:17 AM

If a person was not deserving of respect while alive, that is never going to change in death. I don't mourn the loss of those who intentionally spread more grief than happiness.

08-18-2008, 05:25 AM	#2 (permalink)
Iliftrocks Junkie Location: Near Raleigh, NC	They say the truth will set you free. I hope that someone told this woman something like this while she had time to change... It is a lesson to anyone reading it, not to treat your family so poorly. __________________ bill hicks - "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out."

08-18-2008, 02:26 PM	#7 (permalink)
KellyC Comment or else!! Location: Home sweet home	One of the things that bugs me is how people always say nice things to dead people, as opposed to honest or truthful things about them. If this is the truth about that woman, then so be it. __________________ Him: Ok, I have to ask, what do you believe? Me: Shit happens.

08-18-2008, 03:01 PM	#9 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	Only if they deserved respect.... otherwise, why bother? __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

08-18-2008, 04:07 PM	#10 (permalink)
jorgelito All important elusive independent swing voter... Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia	I think it's more for those that are left behind. In this case, everyone seemed to share the same view so I suppose it's appropriate. But if someone showed up at my mom's funeral and started talking shit about her, there would be a second funeral that day then. It just depends. __________________ "The race is not always to the swift, nor battle to the strong, but to the one that endures to the end." "Demand more from yourself, more than anyone else could ever ask!" - My recruiter

08-18-2008, 07:01 PM	#12 (permalink)
Vigilante Broken Arrow Location: US	I doubt I'll be able to make the obituary when the time comes, but if I did, my grandfather would have one like that. To me, if possible, death of the offensive family member is a good time to let the past go. If you aren't there yet, then I see nothing wrong with the obit above. __________________ We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -Winston Churchill

08-18-2008, 07:17 AM	#3 (permalink)
yellowmac Insane Location: left coast	Wow. Geez... that's ... quite the obituary. I'm hoping that it's only the recently departed that had issues, and that the rest of the family is relatively normal. Otherwise, this family sounds like it's going to be dysfunctional for quite some time. I don't think the dead should always be respected. We're better off without Hitler, no?

08-18-2008, 09:51 AM	#5 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	Almost nothing should "always" happen. If someone is a miserable person, I'm not going to pretend I like them, even if they aren't around to hear it.

08-18-2008, 09:51 AM	#6 (permalink)
speshul-k Insane	Death is just a transgression or a part of life. If we can't think fondly of someone while they are alive then really what difference does it make when they are dead?

08-18-2008, 04:11 PM	#11 (permalink)
sound chaser Tilted	I don't think anybody necessarily has to care if someone dies. I know that might sound bad, but as i read this thread I'm thinking of when Charlton Heston died and the comments posted on anti-gun websites about his passing. Clearly they weren't sad at his passing, were they?

08-18-2008, 07:36 PM	#13 (permalink)
kurty[B] Sauce Puppet	I have a question? They say that she had no hobbies, no contribution to society. Looking at that list of daughters, son, grandchildren and great-grandchildren. I'd feel confident in saying unprotected sex was somehow a hobby of some sort, and that's a whole LOT of people to not be contributing to society. To me, I wouldn't even want to know that family, especially if they don't think they themselves are a contribution to society. They're probably miserable people, and there is a way to "not respect the dead" and not discredit yourself. If they truly believe their mom did not contribute to society, and are willing to broadcast it to the world, why haven't they committed suicide yet? I think they would've been better off letting the newspaper write a quip (so and so died, they were born this day, died this day, no services, ceremony or what not will be held. Instead of buying flowers please send your money to these ungrateful assholes). __________________ In the Absence of Information People Make Things Up.

08-18-2008, 07:55 PM	#14 (permalink)
LoganSnake We work alone Location: Cake Town	Respect is earned in life. If a person was an asshole before he or she passed and I had to respect for them, why would I respect them after the fact? __________________ Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing that you'll be an idiot in the future. Common sense is knowing that you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques

08-19-2008, 03:58 AM	#15 (permalink)
Iliftrocks Junkie Location: Near Raleigh, NC	Maybe all those kids raised themselves? __________________ bill hicks - "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out."

08-19-2008, 04:18 AM	#16 (permalink)
Psycho Dad Mulletproof Location: Some nucking fut house.	Perhaps Dolores Aguilar was abusive or neglectful to her family in general and apparently the writer of the obituary specifically. Nevertheless I think anything the writer of this obituary is looking for would be more easily found in therapy or some other form of counseling than showing their ass this way. __________________ Don't always trust the opinions of experts.

08-19-2008, 04:30 AM	#17 (permalink)
Poppinjay You had me at hello Location: DC/Coastal VA	Whatever a person's sins when they were alive, I consider it mute when they die. That doesn't mean to put a happy face on an awful person, just consider the issue resolved. I, too, had thought about the quote about not contributing anything to society while having borne a passel of kids. Maybe her attitude was shaped by the fact she was preceded by a child in death? __________________ I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet Last edited by Poppinjay; 08-19-2008 at 05:09 AM..

08-19-2008, 04:59 AM	#18 (permalink)
mixedmedia has all her shots. Location: Florida	I don't think it's necessary to respect the dead, but it's even less necessary to disrespect them. The obituary seems frivolous and totally self-indulgent. Who hasn't had total assholes in their family? And how does this prove a person to be any better? Pfft. __________________ Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

08-19-2008, 05:23 AM	#19 (permalink)
Nimetic Junkie Location: Melbourne, Australia	I was going to say that there's no reason to respect the dead, necessarily. However this obit. bothers me. To be honest - it does seem a little too hate-filled. (And I say that as somebody who is not always the nicest in the world) To put that out there formally.... Na, I don't know if that was needed. Somebody else had a good time with her. The children came from somewhere.

08-19-2008, 06:18 AM	#20 (permalink)
LoganSnake We work alone Location: Cake Town	So just because she birthed some children makes her a good person and make said children owe her something? __________________ Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing that you'll be an idiot in the future. Common sense is knowing that you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques

08-19-2008, 07:56 AM	#22 (permalink)
girldetective sufferable	I suppose I would have said what I could about this woman's best or said nothing at all. __________________ As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons...be cheerful; strive for happiness - Desiderata

08-19-2008, 08:19 AM	#24 (permalink)
abaya Location: Iceland	No, I don't think that being dead earns a person any more respect than they had when they were alive. I have a bad habit of not seeing people any differently after they are dead, and I know that it frustrates the hell out of my family (in the case of my own father, grandma, and step-grandma). They all want me to partake in some kind of dead-person worship of all the great things about those people, to the neglect of all their negative aspects... and I refuse to do it. However, the obituary in the OP has nothing to do with the dead, and everything to do with the person who wrote it. I echo what others have said... you don't have to respect the dead, at all... but you don't have to embarrass yourself as a person who clearly has issues, by putting something like this in public. Silence would have been a much wiser approach, in my opinion. __________________ And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran

08-19-2008, 11:02 AM	#26 (permalink)
mixedmedia has all her shots. Location: Florida	How do you know she was a bad person? Because some anonymous person said so? There used to be this thing - they called it grace. And people tried to attain it. And doing so meant differentiating yourself from the people who behaved in ways you didn't like. It's a choice that folks can make. Without it, everyone is an asshole and there's nothing to differentiate from, therefore folks are relegated to judging behavior that is only 'worse than their own.' Which is largely where we are at in this day and age, and it's very frustrating. There is no sliding scale. You either act with grace and abstain from, for instance, distasteful public displays of vindictiveness, or you don't. This woman may have been a terrible person, I don't know. But, I do know for sure is that her son is vindictive and tacky. And that is the sort of thing that I try to differentiate from. Like I said, who hasn't had assholes in their family? My family has certainly had its share. Wah, wah, wah, my mom was mean. That's what I hear. Again, pfft. __________________ Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

08-19-2008, 11:08 AM	#27 (permalink)
sound chaser Tilted	I may not know she was a bad person. But since I never knew the woman or her children, then I think it's fair to give them the benefit of the doubt. As for grace, I don't see the issue. In all societies there obviously is a standard of right and wrong behaviour. So in that sense, is it wrong for us to condemn murderers, pedophiles or rapists? These obviously are persons who committed actions that are deemed unethical in our society. I'd think parental abuse of children is also seen as immoral too. On this basis, a labelling of a "bad person" (even if we didn't know the woman in question) perhaps is warranted by the children of this person.

08-19-2008, 04:57 PM	#32 (permalink)
Grasshopper Green ...is a comical chap Location: Where morons reign supreme	I never respected my grandfather - he was a dick and just because he's dead doesn't change that. I wouldn't have written an obit like this for him, though. It like mixedmedia said...what family doesn't have an asshole that an obit like this would fit? __________________ "They say that patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings; steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you king" Formerly Medusa Last edited by Grasshopper Green; 08-19-2008 at 05:19 PM..

08-19-2008, 05:29 PM	#33 (permalink)
Ayashe Psycho	Funerals aren't for the dead anyway, they are for the living. If this is how the family remembers their ... relative, then so be it. If the family truly wanted to waste their dime posting an insult on not yet cold grave.. go for it. Call that cold and calloused, but I don't see anything truly wrong with it. Personally I would have skipped the notice and had a cheap and simple burial or cremation procedure. Apparently they had a lot to get out of their systems. I find the notion on going to the trouble of making such a notice ridiculous but I have no idea of the trouble that was in that family.

08-19-2008, 07:23 PM	#34 (permalink)
Ilow Junkie Location: Pats country	what ever happened to "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all?" __________________ "Religion is the one area of our discourse in which it is considered noble to pretend to be certain about things no human being could possibly be certain about" --Sam Harris

08-21-2008, 06:43 PM	#36 (permalink)
buttless1der Tilted Location: Willamette Valley	You reap what you sow. nuff said... __________________ The measure of any government is how they allow their citizenry to defend themselves. -Ted Nugent

08-22-2008, 11:17 AM	#40 (permalink)
Cernunnos Insane Location: Orlando, Florida	If a person was not deserving of respect while alive, that is never going to change in death. I don't mourn the loss of those who intentionally spread more grief than happiness.