Jinn

Worth seeing again on Page 2. Wise, as always.

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"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

Willravel

I know police, and they would at the drop of a hat. Of course, San Jose police work in a city with a lot less drug use than, say, NYC, so they may be able to use their time to prevent little crimes since there are so little big crimes.

That being the case, it'd probably be good to know where Lube lives.

San Jose is the 10th largest city in the US. We're more than twice the population of New Orleans. But don't worry, I have enough respect for you not to suggest you're talking out of your ass. That'd be really rude and a big red herring.
And you know he's not dealing how? And you know he's not violent how? Seems to me that you're making an awful lot of assumptions here. Maybe you should leave the investigating to the police.
Ad hominem and red herring.
Which, again, is something you really don't know. If there's a chance that he's a danger, though, do you really think it's your right to possibly put other people in danger because you're not sure?

LoganSnake

So wouldn't you rather help him?

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Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing that you'll be an idiot in the future. Common sense is knowing that you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques

Willravel

Yes, and that's why I'd call the police. Nothing gets you out of an addiction like rock bottom.

Glory's Sun

yeah.. calling the police will really help him It will help him trust people later on when he starts to think he's slipping back into an addiction

Why is this dude labeled as an addict? Any drug can be used recreationally, it's just that some are harder to keep as a rec habit than others.

The only solution to this is to either stay out of it (which is what I would do) or just let HR know that he's fucking up on the job.. there shouldn't be a mention of drugs. If they piss test him.. guess what.. they aren't going to call the cops either. They'll just suspend him or fire him. It's amazing how much people think they know about drugs and cops and they don't know jack.

The_Jazz

OK, some of you know this already, but one of my assistants is married to a detective in Chicago working out of the station at Addison and Halsted (yes, I have a get-out-jail-free card for being a drunken idiot after a Cubs game). He's off duty during the days, so I asked his wife/my assistant to patch him through when she talked to him next.

I ran your scenario by him, Will.

When I told him that someone was serious about it

Some of that is paraphrased, but it's as close as I can get without a recording.

So that's what an actual cop says. Perhaps the San Jose cops have time to deal with this, it being a giant suburb and all, but Chicago cops don't (or at least that particular Chicago cop who would be one of the ones who got the actual "anonymous" call).

I still maintain that it's a bad idea with no good outcome for anyone, including the caller. IF the cops listen, AND the guy doesn't get fired AND he cleans up his act, then the caller basically keeps doing his job like he's always done. That's the best possible outcome I can think of. Too many ifs and too many "uhohs" for me.

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Willravel

Yeah, it's a good idea to allow people who are clearly addicted to drugs to be left to their own devices.

Glory's Sun

I still haven't seen where he's an addict. He made some bad calls at work.. guess what? So do people who've never even touched pot. It happens. Unless the guy is endangering people, stay the fuck out of his business.

I was a cokehead once.. pretty nasty habit once I decided to let it get to that level. Let me guess you had a heroin addiction right will? So you know that it's really not a problem in the ways you are trying to cook up unless that person already has a predisposed problem. I never got fired, I never killed anyone, I never stole anything..

hrmm that sounds alot like a comedian bit I heard.. ya know it was true for him and it was true for me.. and true for thousands of other people.

Willravel

Your detective is making a lot of assumptions, assumptions I hope he doesn't try to make should I ever need to call the police.

"Help! I've been shot! It was a business partner!"
"Are you fucking kidding me? We get calls like that all the time. Are you just trying to put one over on a fellow exec?"
"HA! You got me! Have a good day, bye."

The bottom line is a law is being broken and the company clearly isn't dealing with the problem. Lube can simply learn to live with it, leave, or deal with it.

Jinn

Will, you seem to be dipping so closely to "Know-It-All" territory with the frequency and fervor of these posts. I'm saying it because I often dip too close, and appreciate when people tell me to tone it down. You don't know every cop in the world, and working as an administrator for a NGO is not the same as an executive in the corporate world.

No one can really know what would happen, but you seem to be positioning yourself such that you know the best and only answer for him.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

Glory's Sun

I want to live in your world for one day.. wait.. I bet if I do a couple lines I'll be in that same world.

Willravel

And those who disagree with me are positioning themselves such that they know that I am completely wrong. As you say, no one can really know. I have an opinion and I'm supporting it with evidence and arguments, just like everyone else.

snowy

Having dealt with the law enforcement in this town in a professional capacity, I can firmly say they would think you were blowing smoke up their ass were you to call them to report this. And I live in a college town with 50,000 people, with three overlapping law enforcement agencies (the state police, the local cops, and the sheriff's office)--all of them would think the same thing. Unless there is hard evidence, they're not interested.

I'd talk to HR about my concerns in regards to the exec's work performance, but I think that's really about all you can do in this situation.

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LoganSnake

And a possible jail sentence with a career shattering after effects? I thought you liked people.

__________________
Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing that you'll be an idiot in the future. Common sense is knowing that you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques

Willravel

I've seen what happens when people who are addicted to hard drugs are left to their own devices. Considering what I believe to be a reasonable possibility of hitting an absolute rock bottom, talking to the cops is a walk in the park. I don't really expect a sentence to come from cocaine use. If the police discover that he sells cocaine, then it's possible that he could see prison.

LoganSnake

So then the only reason you would call the cops is so that he could possibly spend time in jail and go cold turkey?

__________________
Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing that you'll be an idiot in the future. Common sense is knowing that you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques

ring

Will,I think you need some Valium.

As to the OP, I agree with the advice to use the chain of command,
without telling unsubstantiated tales of drug use.
Express concerns of job performance,
or find a different job if the situation is intolerable.

Glory's Sun

Will, you're a smart guy. Do you honestly believe this? Ok, so he might get probation.. but when you look at the fact that most prisons are overcrowded with nothing but minor drug offenders, then you have to worry about it. Even if he didn't get a prison sentence, you don't think it's potentially career ending? I would think Rehab (if he is in fact an addict) would be step 1.

I've seen what happens to people on hard drugs too. Some go crazy, some end up homeless.. some of us.. just stop doing it and go on with our lives with no help needed.

Willravel

I don't see him going to prison for recreational use of cocaine. I do, however, see him possibly losing his job. If I had someone working for me that was using cocaine and it was clearly effecting his work in a very negative way, I'd contact HR and get him out and strongly recommend drug counseling immediately. Lube isn't this guy's boss, though. This guy's bosses aren't doing anything to fix a rather serious problem. I've seen this before and it's called bad management.

As for career ending, probably not. He'll possibly lose several prospects for a new job, but ending his career? Nah.
If you were anything like me, you stopped as soon as you realized it was having a negative effect. The man in question has already passed this point.

blktour

I actually agree with Willravel. what people dont understand is that he is not looking at it as a "i want to mess this guys career up." but more of a " this guy has a problem, and I am a problem solver."

Everyone who thinks he is doing it to ruin the guy, is not even listening to what he is saying. I am sure that there are "many ways to skin a cat" but Willravel chooses to skin it this way. but in reality the guy did it to himself. He needs to take responsibility for his actions. Coke is NOT ok in the work enviorment. when he is coked up and it effects his work, then that is called an addiction.

I agree that he gets his point across. In my work envoirment it is black and white. I do not go to make friends, and I do not go to chat. I go to Work! so everything is black and white with me at work. work has rules and I abide to them. Call me a dick head or a stubborn guy or whatever, but as long as I love my job and do my best, no one can say anything to me.

it is just that alot of people are blinded and think that coworkers should be friends. I disagree. I could care less what others think of me, since they do not pay me.

I see that The_Jazz is surrounded by people who care about how they look towards others. so that is why they all said, "why is he trying to do that to him".

my dad once told me, "tell me who your friends are, and I will tell you who you are." so to me of course The_Jazz will have his buddies or "associates" agree with him.

you have to look at the intentions. people always miss that. I see that Willravels intentions are to help the guy and this may be the only way to help him in his eyes. Maybe even talk to the man. who really knows.

I have ONE close friend that is a cop and I asked him the same thing about this, and he said he would go and try to find the guy. Talk to his people that deal with this and try to get this guy some help. This is coming from a cop that also takes his job seriously, not some friend of The_Jazz who surrounds himself with people who tend to not really care for the core of the issue. (from what I have gotten from The_Jazz in this thread.)

I give you props Will for holding to your beliefs even when people are calling you out with fallacies.

Glory's Sun

People get put in prison for "rec" use of drugs all the time. Depends on if the judge is feeling froggy or not. You just said you'd contact HR and recommend drug counseling. At least you're coming around a little bit. I think that if you really wanted to help him.. you'd either stay out of his shit or just mention it to him without getting HR involved at all. Why let HR in on the deal? They will just terminate him and could make his problem even worse.. resulting in the rock bottom you are predicting.

Actually, no I didn't stop when it had a negative effect.. but then it was only affecting me negatively.. nobody else.

Cynthetiq

I don't know he's not dealing. He just may. He also may be selling baseball cards, Mary Kay, or Tupperware. There's no evidence that has been stated by the OP to draw any kind of conclusion. So in the absence of evidence, I'm not jumping to any conclusions nor taking any leaps of faith.

It is simple to know that he's not being violent. If he was being violent at work, then either security (if it is a building with security) would have been called. If not then the police would ALREADY have information on this individual since they were at one point a threat to other people. Again, if he had the propensity for violence, then he would have been FIRED already and there wouldn't be an OP created by Lubeboy.

See that's the best part about what you are saying. If I'm sure? There are plenty of INTIMIDATING people walking the streets of all cities. The police aren't called just because someone looked cross-eyed at someone else.

You sure do like those herrings... maybe that's what is giving you all this gas that you are blowing out from your behind.

Please don't act like you know a single thing about addiction or bottoms of addicts, because it is very clear that you have NO IDEA.

He has? that's a mighty fucking big ginourmous willravel sized leap of faith, jumping to conclusing. You don't know anything about this individual except that he's using drugs, he has a job, and that he's fucking up other people's jobs. That is the evidence presented so far.

Interesting that you make that statement of being there to do your job all no nonsenes and all, and yet in the next breath you complimenting will for him getting up all in someone else's business.

I agree with you. I'm not here to make friends. I'm here to get a job done, and if you stand in my way I'll move you out of the way however I can do it. This does not mean calling the police because someone is a drug user.

Does this mean we should call the police when someone has a 3 martini lunch and has to drive back to the office?

Will's point of view is that he's even stated that one should call the police on their parents or even sue them for breach of contract.

IMO a very misguided approach to principles and getting the things that you want and need.

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