ehh19

my girl and i have been together for 9 months... we are 21. i have been engaged before and it was the biggest mistake of my life because my fiancee was a bad person (bitch). the girl i am with now is, for lack of better words, the most amazing girl i have met so far. i mean it... perfect. and i have gone through my share of girls.

my problem is, of course, that i got her pregnant. we have wondered for about 3 days (time that she was late) and we took the test tonight. she is actually sleeping right this second (cried so much no wonder she is tired.) i am feeling like the stupidest man on earth right now for typing this now but i think i have thought about it too much.

i love this girl and i really want her to do WHATEVER she feels is right... but other than telling her that i am here for her no matter what and expressing how much i care for her, i don't know what to do.

i guess my question is (besides any and ALL advice you care to throw in) what else do i do? please.... anyone respond to this..... anything.

steven

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JumpinJesus

That's exactly what to do.

-------------------------

Now, if you want to hear a story along with advice, read on. If not, re-read my first sentence. You already know what to do.

I got my girlfriend pregnant when she was 16 and I was 18. We decided to keep it and we got married. We divorced 7 years later. Having a child at such a young age fucked up our plans, so we changed our plans.

It's been 17 years and everything has worked out exactly as it was supposed to. As tough is things seem right now, they will work out whatever you two decide. 21 is young but you already seem to have enough wisdom to do the right thing right now. That's all that matters at the moment.

Good luck.

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Willravel

You know the right thing to do. Sick with her, support her, help her. Be there. You are just as responsible for your soon to be kid as she is.

And wear a rubber.

ehh19

thanks. i appreciate what you both said.

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"A dead Lois?!?" - Stewie
"Does this look like a Q to you? ... How 'bout now?" - Quagmire

Midnight

Hey Steven

Deep breaths my friend. You can and will get through this. No matter what she or you together decide. Give yourselves a few days. You just found out, you have a little bit of time before any real decisions have to be made. You're already headed the right direction by letting her know you are there for her no matter what and telling her how much you care for her. That's REALLY important right now. We TFP'ers are here to talk to too. We have experience to share, I'm sure on both sides of the decision that you are facing. I had been living with my boyfriend from all through high school when I was 19. We finally figured out that things weren't going to work out between us and I moved back to my parents home. I found out a couple weeks later I was pregnant. (and we had been VERY VERY careful). We didn't get married, and he has never been a part of his daughter's life. She will be 15 in December. I've done just fine by myself, but there were a lot of times that even if we weren't together, I wish I had had him to be able to count on for things when it came to her. This is scary, but it IS do-able with a lot of hard work.
If she decides to have an abortion, one thing - PLEASE - both of you get counseling. A friend of mine was your age and had one and neither she nor her boyfriend got counseling and neither of them were ever the same again..

Good luck hun. **hugs**

ehh19

thank you midnight... yeah, i am there for her ... 1000%. we too were SOOO careful... we dont really know how this happened. but i know that she may want the abortion... which i am fine with (i am very pro-choice) but as i know it is very hard, i really thank you for the idea of counseling.... i know she is worth all my effort and much more....

i guess with her falling asleep and everything i am just freaking out extra haha. i am trying to find stuff to do... like keep her cat off her so she can sleep... lol...

again thanks!

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"A dead Lois?!?" - Stewie
"Does this look like a Q to you? ... How 'bout now?" - Quagmire

*Nikki*

Always consider adoption if it is not within your means to support a child currently.

Most all costs will be paid if you do indeed chose this route.

SecretMethod70

EDIT: WOW. OK, I can't read. I thought you said you were "very pro-life" for some reason. Anyway, I'm not going to bother editing what I said, because it still applies, just a little differently

A couple things...

1) Ultimately, the decision is hers, but there's nothing wrong with you expressing your opinion, so long as you're supportive of what she decides in the end.

2) JumpinJesus is right that your life will go on. Whatever your decision is, it's not the end of the world. So, don't get yourself down too much. That said, it would be disingenuous not to point out that while life will go on no matter what, some decisions will give you more control of your life than others.

So...

3) If she's on the edge about it, encourage her to get an abortion. <strike>I know you said you're pro-life, and it's not worth debating, but</strike> here are a few things to think about:

a) Despite the propaganda that says otherwise, abortion does not cause mental anguish. <a href=#one>[1]</a>

b) This is not to say that mental anguish some women experience after an abortion is not real, just that it is not "caused" by the abortion. If you were both brought up in an environment that is opposed to abortion, or if you simply feel yourselves becoming depressed after doing it, you should both absolutely get counseling. Abortion is certainly not an easy decision, and sometimes it takes professional help to get through your emotions after difficult periods in your life.

c) Assuming you get professional help, if needed, abortion is most certainly the option which allows both of you to continue on with your lives as planned, taking as much control of your own destinies as possible. I know this isn't the kind of thing you want to hear - especially now - but as perfect as you think this girl is, the odds are that the two of you won't end up together, baby or not. (If you do, that's wonderful, just saying the odds aren't in your favor.) On top of that, it is much easier for a man's life to recover from an unplanned child than it is for a woman. So, you owe it to her to encourage her to get an abortion if she's willing to consider it, because in the long run it's far more likely to throw her life off track than yours. She's the one who runs the risk of ending up as a single mother (the largest group of welfare recipients by the way), trying to have a career while also taking care of her kid and having difficulty finding a man who is interested in dating someone who already has children. All while you'll be able to move on with your career and life, should you two split up, while only needing to pay child support. Inconvenient, sure, but not nearly as bad. I'm not saying you will split up, or that you will be absent with the exception of child support, but the point is that the risk to her future is too great not to support abortion as an option.

4) <strike>If you're incapable of encouraging her to have an abortion, then at least don't discourage her.</strike> If she ultimately decides against having an abortion, then adoption is the next best thing. It'll throw her life off track for ~9 months, and she's even more likely to need counseling, but 9 months is nothing in comparison to the rest of her life.

a) Let me explain what I mean when I say she's more likely to need counseling. That is not, in any way, meant to discourage putting children up for adoption. However, carrying a child to term provides much more time for the body to release bonding hormones, which will make it difficult in the end to be giving the child up. It is, undoubtedly, at least as difficult a decision as choosing to have an abortion.

5) Finally, again, if she ends up having the child, your lives are not over. Yours especially, but even hers. Life will be difficult and you will face many challenges. You probably won't get to do all, or even most, of the things you want to accomplish in life right now, but you'll find new things that you want to accomplish and you'll focus on those. So, don't spend too much energy panicking. Take a day or three to feel crappy about this situation that you've been thrust into, and then get serious about deciding where to go from here. Whichever decision you make, life will go on, but some decisions will make that life easier. The two of you are the ones who have to figure out which decision is right for you.

<a name=one>[1] http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/329/index.html

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Willravel

Oh wow. Please consult a professional psychologist or psychiatrist to confirm my statements, but abortion can and does cause depression is some women. A direct correlation is well known (British Medical Journal), but it does not state there is a higher rate. Abortion is one of many potential causes of depression. I hope that's clear. Abortions are not always psychologically damaging, of course, but to suggest that abortion never causes depression is completely and totally wrong.

SecretMethod70

Cause and correlation are two different things. I suggest you watch the program I cited. There's no doubt there are people who become depressed, etc after having an abortion, but the abortion is not the cause, it is simply a catalyst. If someone is brought up in a deeply religious environment, for example, and the idea that abortion is an evil, vile, murderous, satanic, devil-worshiping activity has been ingrained into them, then I'd be pretty shocked if abortion didn't lead to psychological troubles. However, abortion, in that case, is not the cause, but a catalyst. Two very very different things.

Incidentally, the people who are trying to argue that abortion should be limited or made illegal because it harms the mental health of women also managed to be published in a medical journal. One published study does not the truth make. Also, the study you cite does not say abortion causes depression. What it does say is that societal factors surrounding abortion can contribute to depression in women, which is precisely what I said in my initial post. ("This is not to say that mental anguish some women experience after an abortion is not real, just that it is not 'caused' by the abortion.")

Funny thing is, NOW did "consult a professional psychologist or psychiatrist" for their report. One of them was Dr. Nada Stotland, President-Elect of the American Psychiatric Association. If you don't want to take the 20 minutes to watch the NOW report, you can see a letter she wrote to the New York Times here [pdf]. Along with the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association supports the view that "abortion, in and of itself, is not associated with negative mental health consequences." Another choice quote from the NOW report, "most studies show that the vast majority of women suffer no long-term negative mental health effects."

I have to say, will, that I'm very concerned that you'd suggest abortion causes depression, especially since you've said you have an education in psychology. Either you did not say what you intended to say, or your education was not very good, because what you've just posted goes against the stance of both major mental health bodies.

Also of note:

Guttmacher Policy Review: "Abortion and Mental Health—Myths and Realities"

House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform: "False and Misleading Health Information Provided by Federally Funded Pregnancy Resource Centers" [pdf]

EDIT: Upon further review, I realize that I initially worded my first post incorrectly. I said there was no correlation between abortion and mental anguish. What I meant to say is that abortion does not cause mental anguish. The post has been edited to reflect that. Will was correct to call me out on that, but he went too far in the other direction by stating "abortion can and does cause depression is some women," "abortion is one of many potential causes of depression," and "abortions are not always psychologically damaging, of course, but to suggest that abortion never causes depression is completely and totally wrong."

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

analog

It sounds like you're a caring boyfriend... and while you may be in a really bad state of mind right now, that doesn't mean you don't have the underlying nerve and fortitude to take care of things- whether it be taking care of her if she decides not to keep the baby, or taking care of both of them if she decides she does want to keep it.

I assume that you plan on having kids at some point... and from the way you describe her, she sounds like "the one" you might possibly want to have kids with- at some point. If now is not the right time, then you have your answer. Some day- but not now. Consider telling her that. The better and more established your relationship is, the better your chances are of being successful in the long term.

Just don't fall into the "babies are relationship superglue" line of thinking. They don't bond two people together. You might think they do, and it might turn out that way in movies and TV, but that's not how it really works.

Either way, best of luck.

Willravel

Unfortunately, this isn't always the case. Sometimes the abortion can be both catalyst AND cause. The connection between mother and child before birth has been well documented, and the severing of that link can in and of itself, aside from any previous religious or moralistic dogma, be the sole cause of depression. The depression can stem from feelings of guilt and/or remorse.
Dr. Stotland references no studies. All I see is an opinion.
Again, with the "vast studies". I'd love to see reference material for this. So far I've only found reference to material. When I get home, I'll email my mom (Dr. of Psychology) and ask if she has any studies on this.
Without references, those are assumptions.

From the article
...which means what is says: inconclusive.
Again, from the above:
As common as postnatal depression? Well...
http://womenshealth.gov/faq/postpartum.htm#2

So again we've come to it: it does happen.

pig

perhaps this would be better content for a separate thread on the correlation between abortion and depression?

for the op - just be supportive of her. i think the most important thing, as others have said, is that she knows she's not alone in this. you're both going to be going through a lot of stress, so take care of yourselves as much as you can. good luck.

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SecretMethod70

To say that abortion is as common as post-natal depression is yet more evidence that abortion should not be seen as a cause of depression. Of course depression can happen after an abortion (and, again, I said this in my very first post), but to say that abortion causes it is unreasonable. If abortion, in and of itself, caused depression, then there would be more depression after abortion than after birth. (And, even then, that's not proof, because of the societal factors involved in having an abortion that also contribute to potential depression.)

Anyway, it's true that the President-Elect of the American Psychiatric Association did not cite specific studies in her interview or letter, and it's also true that PBS did not waste time in what is only a 20 minute program to give URLs to the "official" statements of either APA. Still, you'll have to forgive me for trusting that the governing bodies of both APA's and the President-Elect of one of those APA's are more read up and educated on the issue than you or your mother. Call it an opinion all you want, but the fact remains that it is the collective opinion of some of the most highly respected and established Psychologists and Psychiatrists in the country. If there's anyone whose opinion I'm going to trust on the matter, it's them.

This is getting into thread-jack territory though, so I'll stop here and let the discussion get back to helping ehh19 with his specific issue.

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

Willravel

But it happens. That was my point. You said:
That is incorrect. I read that as meaning "abortion in and of itself cannot cause any mental anguish".
It can cause depression. It doesn't always, obviously. The fact that you've not touched on physiological causes of depression tells me that more research should probably be done on this subject before conclusive advice is given. The hormonal imbalance that happens while pregnant and between pregnancy and not being pregnant can cause depression. Again, speak to a professional, though. A psychiatrist would be able to elaborate more on this than I can.

Apologies about the threadjack. /end threadjack

analog

Well, I don't see any studies I'd consider credible (one study abstract is not citeable as fact) that you've referenced to counter her opinion, and her professional opinion as the president of the APA carries a lot of weight.

People in professional fields often make observations or state opinions. This was one such case. The lack of cited resources only means you have no access to proof, not that she is incorrect. If i tell you that you're missing a foot, as I stand there looking at your bloody leg stump, I wouldn't bother to cite Gray's Anatomy for you.

Basically- if you want to call bullshit on the professional opinion of someone whose opinion carries a ton more weight than your own, you do the leg-work.

Willravel

Dr. Stotland was trying to suggest that the idea that abortions cause depression often enough to enact legislation is incorrect. It's unfortunate that she chose poor language. The quote in question:
After quite a bit of looking, no study performed on a correlation between abortion and depression has been conclusive. Not one. So we'll have to break this down.

The hormonal effects of abortion are often similar to those of childbirth. Estrogen and progesterone are pumped out in crazy amounts. When birth is given or the child is aborted, those levels can crash suddenly. Established research links peripartum depression to that drop. I'm sur you're aware from my old thread about the menstrual cycle that a change in these hormones effects mood. These drops can effect anything from sleep to stress. Now we put 2 and 2 together. If the drop in hormones after birth can cause depression, it's not unreasonable to come to the conclusion that the same drop in hormones after an abortion can lead in the same direction. If some of the brave and wonderful women of TFP who have gone through an abortion are wanting to share, they may tell about how they cried, felt restless, had low energy, couldn't focus, lost sleep, etc. All of those are signs of depression.

BTW,
Strawman. "abortion trauma syndrome" is a casual label given to describe PTSD of a certain cause. PTSD is recognized by her association.

Again, and for the last time,
/end threadjack

JumpinJesus

If you want to start another thread about abortion and depression, then by all means do it, just don't do it here.

This guy is here asking for advice and support and probably doesn't want to see his thread high-jacked by someone else's argument.

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TotalMILF

ehh19, it sounds like you're doing everything you should be right now. You are being quite mature about the situation you're in, and that's absolutely wonderful to see. The initial shock will wear off soon and you will both be able to come to a decision together. Just keep supporting her - it's absolutely what she needs from you right now.

A friend of mine was raped at 14, became pregnant from the attack and gave birth to a daughter, whom she gave up for adoption. Said friend is now 26 and happily married. In fact, she just had her third child with her husband on Thursday. My point is that, while abortion is definitely an option, so is adoption. Many adoptions now are open, meaning that you can maintain some level of contact with the adoptive family if you wish. Just keep this in mind

Also, you really don't have to look at this pregnancy like it's a horrible mistake. If your relationship is strong and the feelings you have for her are reciprocated, then wouldn't you agree that it's possible that this may not be a bad thing, but potentially a very positive addition to your relationship and your lives? I'm definitely not saying that a baby is a cure-all for relationship woes, or that it will be easy raising a child together, because it's not and it won't be. What I am saying is that it sounds like you have a healthy relationship with your girlfriend, and that you are mature for your age, so it's quite possible that, with the appropriate effort, you may be able to keep your girlfriend and your child and have a very loving family.

Ultimately, as you said, it's her decision whether or not to continue with the pregnancy, and you are definitely doing the right thing by supporting her while she makes her decision. Keep the lines of communication open and remember that you have several options, and that this little "surprise" is most definitely NOT the end of your lives.

And please keep us posted about your decision. I'm sure we'd all love to know what you and your girlfriend decide to do

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hambone

As said, be supportive. If you can have the child, I would highly suggest that. It may seem difficult now, but you are never going to feel 100% ready anyway.

If you can't support the child, please please look at adoption. It completely pisses me off when it is said that abortion is the best option, with adoption second. I myself am adopted, as my birth mother was 16 and poor and couldn't support me. I thank God for her decision to put me up for adoption and "throw her life off track for 9 months" (as it was so callously put above...) so that I could enjoy my life now.

I don't have many heroes, but my birth mother is most definitely one of them.

Whatever you both decide will affect more than just you, so please think it through.

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Nothing to cry over"

Ustwo

Imagine a young Ustwo, about to get lucky in a girls dorm room. Shes fun, shes good looking, shes naked.

Just prior to 'the deed' she starts to sob, not cry, sob.

Turns out had an abortion 5 years ago she never got over and was still in 'mental anguish over'.

I'm sure that the PROCESS of an abortion doesn't cause mental anguish, but the knowledge you just flushed out a baby sure can.

Saying abortion itself causes it, is trying to cleave rabbits. I'm sure the physical act the doctor does in an abortion to the woman does not cause the depression. So what.

All I can say to the OP is that, while at 21 I did not think I was ready for children, and I didn't have children until I was 34, I do wish, in retrospect, I had them earlier. Having children is not the end of fun and life, and in fact we did more 'fun' things just the two of us the year after my son was born than in the last 3 years combined. It makes you appreciate your time together more.

But really, you are adults now, not children, you need to make an adult decision.

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*Nikki*

Ustwo

Since the original question has had abortion mentioned as a solution, then any side effects of an abortion are on topic.

There is more to it than making a problem 'go away' for many people.

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

*Nikki*

Believe it or not Ustwo that warning was not aimed solely at you, rather a reminder to keep the thread on topic rather then start an abortion debate.

Willravel

LiBan

I actually suggest that you seek counseling before making a decision. If you are at college and have access to a university psychiatry office or something similar, take advantage of it right now.

In the same theme of the other responses:

Should you decide to keep the child, seek counseling. You will need guidance, advice and a controlled environment in which to explore your feelings.

Should you decide to carry the child to term and then give him or her up for adoption, seek counseling. You will both become new and different people. I have known couples who have given their unplanned children to open adoptions. It has worked very well for them. Parents and children have all been very happy. You will, however well it might work, still need counseling before, during and after.

If you decide to abort the pregnancy, consult with doctors and seek counseling before and after. Explore the different choices of method and the side effects of those options.

You have time to make an informed choice. For the love of god, do not be afraid to ask questions.

Cynthetiq

didn't have any mental anguish with the g/f when I was 21 she was 18. Neither of us was ready to have the child. she wanted to have an abortion, I didn't wanted to raise it.

Glad it didn't work out that way because I've lived an incredible life that brought me to NYC and done some amazing travels and seen some incredible sights. I would have not been able to do that if I had a child who would be 17 and gearing up for college.

Decide how YOU want to live your life and discuss it as such. If you are an asshole because she thinks you are selfish because you don't want to have a baby, and she wants to, well you can still do as you want to some degree. You just have the added responsibility of contributing financially and emotionally to this child for 18+ years.

I've made the decision now to not want to have children. It is something that I do wish to keep as does my wife of 5 years who is not the woman that I had gotten pregnant in my youth. No we broke up a few months later because she was cheating on me with a coworker.

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Lady Sage

Talk through it, decide together and best of luck.

In the future... its easier to change a condom than a diaper.

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Datalife2

man i feel for ya..i have no advice really but your real young and now your life will change and so will your finances for the rest of your life.

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