Hard Choice - Continue University vs. Join Air Force - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

archetypal fool · 09-10-2007, 06:36 PM

As some of you know, I I'm not a fan of the Iraq/ensuing Iran war, but two of my best friends are - these are high school friends who were with me from the beginning, even when I had no one else. They helped me break through my shell, and have always supported me, and they are both enlisting in the US Air Force - actually, one of them enlisted a while ago and the other one will join in February - they want me to go along so we can be the gang we've always been, and until they brought it up I had never considered it.

So now here's my situation: I'm a University student - much more than 100% of my tuition and more than half of my living expenses are paid for through scholarships - in other words, I have free future, and am not in need of the financial support which enlisting will grant me. I've tried weighing the good and the bad and have come to a balance of pros and cons, so I need some advice. And so I present my problem to the only internet forum which I hold enough respect for to really take provided advice to heart

. Here's my list:

The pros of enlisting:

I get to be with my best friends

I get beat back into shape (ladies appreciate a healthy lookin' body, right? )

I get all my living expenses paid for - food, board and cloths are provided to me, so I don't have to worry about rent, expenses, etc.

I get free college credits, though they aren't in my preferred major.

The Air Force will pay my tuition after Technical Training School, so I can get that Biology degree I so much crave - though I will have to wait longer

Businesses love to see military experience on resumes, so I get a leg up for the future

I get to try something new, as my life at the moment is less than exciting

I get to keep an eye out for my friends, since we will all get deployed together

The cons of enlisting:

I leave my family, as the base we're all going to is in North Dakota, and my family lives in Florida.

I lose my very comforting scholarships, though I can more likely than not get some of them back as a transfer student

I leave my music/books/computer behind during boot camp

I get beat into shape

I can't participate in Tilted Politics any more

I lose the security/assurance I have here

I aid Bush & Co. in their quest for world domination

There aren't as many hot Cuban girls in the military in North Dakota as there are in a South Florida university.

Despite my exuberant use of emoticons above, I'm really torn and serious here, as my future will really be significantly changed by this choice - I'll appreciate any advice you guys have to give me, and especially any posts from previous or current Air Force recruits regarding your experiences, regrets, advice, etc.. Thanks to all.

Midnight · 09-10-2007, 07:12 PM

Air force I would think would be one of your safer branches as at this point there seem to be more ground troops being deployed than there are air strikes.
You can utilize your GI money in addition to the scholarships or before or after them, so you'd be a nice bit better off in that area. I don't know that there is any chance of you being with your buddies during basic or further on, so keep in mind you may well enlist then find yourself alone without your buddies. You can also check with SFU, many unis offer online study, and you MAY be able to complete a part of your studies from on base even before you get out. You could also work part time for something like your local airport with the TSA or with your local post office when you get out in addition to school and or another job you might have, and be working towards a government pension you would be getting in addition to SSI when you get there later on in life which your military time counts toward... There are a hell of a lot of pros to going now.. As well as cons. I look forward to seeing what are military/former military have to say about this.

archetypal fool · 09-10-2007, 07:19 PM

From what I understand, there's a buddy program which lets groups be sent together to boot camp, base, and eventual deployment. I'll have to have another round at figuring out the details, but that's what I've been told, and it's the whole premise to the plan we've decided on - if it breaks down I have no reason to go - how will I keep an eye out for my friends if they're in a completely different dispatch, or whatever that is? It would be completely pointless for me to go unless I'm with them.

Elphaba · 09-10-2007, 07:27 PM

Please, go to University. Please.

You can't look after your friends in the way you hope. Businesses care more about a degree than military service. The promise of college credits has not held up to scrutiny.

Don't do this for the sake of high school friendships. The only reason to join the military is that you support the current foreign policy to the extent that you would give you life. Really. Your life.

Quote:

Originally Posted by archetypal fool

It would be completely pointless for me to go unless I'm with them.

You and many others are promised everything to join, but the recruiters can't fulfill those promises.

passthru · 09-10-2007, 07:40 PM

Let me try and play devil's advocate on your points:
The pros of enlisting:

* I may die with my best friends

* I get beat (in some ways, literally) back into shape ..instead of in a more casual way

* I get all my living expenses paid for - food, board and cloths are provided to me, so I don't have to worry about rent, expenses, etc. ..If half of your expenses are already paid for, this isn't a great deal. Especially since afterwards you'll have been through violence instead of an education.

* I get free college credits, though they aren't in my preferred major. ..How is that a pro if they won't apply to your major?

* The Air Force will pay my tuition after Technical Training School, so I can get that Biology degree I so much crave - though I will have to wait longer ..You're already on scholarships, so this just means you'll have to wait longer for your degree.

* Businesses love to see military experience on resumes, so I get a leg up for the future ..Are you sure the places you'll be working with your biology degree will care about your military experience? Given, most people respect military service.. but will that be applicable to biology?

* I get to try something new, as my life at the moment is less than exciting ..There are lots and lots of very exciting things you can do that don't involve being shot at, exploded, etc., and those things also don't go against your ideals like helping "Bush & Co." does.

* I get to keep an eye out for my friends, since we will all get deployed together ..You could also keep an eye out for them by persuading them not to travel to such a dangerous place.

The cons of enlisting:

* I leave my family, as the base we're all going to is in North Dakota, and my family lives in Florida. ..You'll be with two of your best friends and will make new, very close, friends.

* I lose my very comforting scholarships, though I can more likely than not get some of them back as a transfer student ..Find out your chances/the procedures to get them back, if it's easy there's not much of a con here.

* I leave my music/books/computer behind during boot camp ..You won't have time for those things anyway, you'll be very busy assimilating.

* I get beat into shape ..The military will make very sure you're in shape, which sounds like a good thing if you haven't been able to keep yourself as fit as you'd like.

* I can't participate in Tilted Politics any more ..You sure? Maybe not as often, but soldiers do have some Internet access.

* I lose the security/assurance I have here ..Whatever you lose in the meantime may be offset by your experiences and the relationships they build for your future.

* I aid Bush & Co. in their quest for world domination ..In the military you follow orders without hesitation, such disturbing thoughts as these won't occur to you.

* There aren't as many hot Cuban girls in the military in North Dakota as there are in a South Florida university. ..Hmm I'm not sure I can counter that one.

You can probably guess my general opinion. I think that if you actually take any of our subjective thoughts into account instead of knowing you want to join and telling _us_ why, you're not sure you want to be in the military. You should be sure you want to be in the military before joining, and you are the only one who will have made that decision.
That being said, if you want to join, I would suggest waiting to complete your bachelor's degree. I think it would be much better to enter as an officer.

Willravel · 09-10-2007, 08:01 PM

If it were me, so only speaking for myself, I'd go to school and run out the scholarships completely.

JumpinJesus · 09-10-2007, 08:20 PM

Finish your degree.

Your recruiter - or anyone else in the Air Force - is under no obligation to keep any promises made to you once you swear your oath. And you'll notice that the contract you sign makes no promises to you, except that you'll be owned by the government for 8 years.

Of course, had I stayed in, I'd be retiring this year, so things may have changed in the last 20 years. I just know that when I was in and mentioned some of the promises made me by my recruiter, I remember a lot of laughing.

Bear Cub · 09-10-2007, 08:28 PM

Don't do it, pure and simple.

archetypal fool · 09-10-2007, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elphaba

Please, go to University. Please.

You can't look after your friends in the way you hope. Businesses care more about a degree than military service. The promise of college credits has not held up to scrutiny.

Don't do this for the sake of high school friendships. The only reason to join the military is that you support the current foreign policy to the extent that you would give you life. Really. Your life.

You and many others are promised everything to join, but the recruiters can't fulfill those promises.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JumpinJesus

Finish your degree.

Your recruiter - or anyone else in the Air Force - is under no obligation to keep any promises made to you once you swear your oath. And you'll notice that the contract you sign makes no promises to you, except that you'll be owned by the government for 8 years.

Of course, had I stayed in, I'd be retiring this year, so things may have changed in the last 20 years. I just know that when I was in and mentioned some of the promises made me by my recruiter, I remember a lot of laughing.

Well, I'm opposed to the war completely. My friends are going for the financial gains, which I have no need for. I also know that recruiters are full of shit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by passthru

The pros of enlisting:

* I may die with my best friends

* I get beat (in some ways, literally) back into shape ..instead of in a more casual way

* I get all my living expenses paid for - food, board and cloths are provided to me, so I don't have to worry about rent, expenses, etc. ..If half of your expenses are already paid for, this isn't a great deal. Especially since afterwards you'll have been through violence instead of an education.

* I get free college credits, though they aren't in my preferred major. ..How is that a pro if they won't apply to your major?

* The Air Force will pay my tuition after Technical Training School, so I can get that Biology degree I so much crave - though I will have to wait longer ..You're already on scholarships, so this just means you'll have to wait longer for your degree.

* Businesses love to see military experience on resumes, so I get a leg up for the future ..Are you sure the places you'll be working with your biology degree will care about your military experience? Given, most people respect military service.. but will that be applicable to biology?

* I get to try something new, as my life at the moment is less than exciting ..There are lots and lots of very exciting things you can do that don't involve being shot at, exploded, etc., and those things also don't go against your ideals like helping "Bush & Co." does.

* I get to keep an eye out for my friends, since we will all get deployed together ..You could also keep an eye out for them by persuading them not to travel to such a dangerous place.

To be honest with myself, I know it's a bad idea - my university has been granted to me - my family needs me - I have my future to look forward to. All the points you've made have been floating through my mind - and they really sink in now that I hear (read) them coming from another, objective person. I suppose I hold these guys in such high regard for what they've done for me that I couldn't just face them and say outright that I was absolutely not interested in joining them. It's going to be hard for me to confront them with my decision, but it's the right thing to do.

I can't give enough thanks to you guys for the advice, and I know I've made the right choice - I'm staying, and I'm keeping the hot Cuban college girls to myself.

Plan9 · 09-11-2007, 02:37 AM

(did four years in the Army, '03-'07)

Yeah, finish your god-damn school before I come choke the crap out of you for being a... ... weenie-face. AND HERE'S WHY:

I did FOUR years so I could PAY for college because I didn't have much hope of scholarships and was essentially broke. You have a 100% free ride, right? Are you on drugs thinking about joining the military with your friends? If so... stop the drugs... and finish your education! This is the ONLY right thing to do.

If you REALLY wanna join the military with your friends, do it AFTER you have your degree.

'Sides... enlisting these days is pretty much two free trips to the desert punctuated by 6-12 months back at home dealing with pre-deployment crap.

...

Getting buff? Pfft, son... its the Air Force! Those pussies won't get you in shape.

Shauk · 09-11-2007, 03:08 AM

listen to crom

Bill O'Rights · 09-11-2007, 05:44 AM

First of all, the Air Force used to offer a "Buddy Program", whereby you could go through basic training with your buddies. And in some cases, even Tech School afterward. But, never did it extend beyond that. There is no guarantee, unless it's written into the contract (and it won't be) that you will be stationed together at your Permanent Duty Station.

North Dakota? That would be Minot AFB. We had a saying back in my old SAC days; "Why not Minot? Freezin's the reason!" And another thing. We were never guaranteed where we were going to be assigned, until we were in Tech School.

Quote:

Originally Posted by passthru

* I get beat (in some ways, literally) back into shape ..instead of in a more casual way

Literally? Really? You've watched to many movies, my friend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crompsin

If you REALLY wanna join the military with your friends, do it AFTER you have your degree.

Speaking as an old Air Force vet, that's the best advice that I've seen yet. If you want to join the Air Force, then by all means...do it. Don't do it just to please your friends. And if you do join, do it after you graduate college, and go in as an officer. Life in the officer corps is substantially better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crompsin

Getting buff? Pfft, son... its the Air Force! Those pussies won't get you in shape.

Really?

That's my out of shape Air Force pussy ass hanging off the side of a building, two stories off of the ground, during an anti-terroism exercise at Offutt, AFB, about 20 years ago.

Plan9 · 09-11-2007, 06:08 AM

USELESS DIATRIBE GOES FIRST:

You know what rocks my socks? People who have never served 30 seconds in uniform making judgment calls about the quality of life in the US military. They base their assumptions on TeeVee and movies, which MUST be true.

...

RE: Hanging Olive Drab Ninja

PUSSY. You're not wearing 80 pounds of body armor! (j/k)

Cute trick, but nobody shoots like that, bro. Especially with a Colt Commando. Those things have more muzzle displacement than a fat chick after too many Red Bulls. I had this one buddy that... well, yeah. Nevermind.

Seriously: I love Air Force. I should have joined them instead of the Army. Hell, I'd probably still be IN the AF right now if I had. They're laid back, got a ton of money, and don't play the bullshit uniform / regulation / drill sergeant games. AF EOD are my favorite cowboys. Those dudes made Army EOD look like kids in a sandbox.

...

Yeah, the military is a weird physical fitness monster. Half fatasses and half Spartan superheroes.

And skinny guys like me.

...

OP Guy: Go to college. Don't be a weenie-face. Join the military AFTER college, if you so desire. It kicks ass and women cream their jeans because you're wearing ripstop polyester with earth-tone squiggles.

Just remember: Officers have to earn respect. NCOs simply excrete respect from special glands in their fists and eyeballs.

Bill O'Rights · 09-11-2007, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crompsin

PUSSY. You're not wearing 80 pounds of body armor! (j/k)

Didn't need no pussy assed body armor. Shrapnel just bounced off of my rock hard pecs and abs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crompsin

Cute trick, but nobody shoots like that, bro.

Au Contraire, my airborne friend. I have fired from that position. Just semi auto though. Never full auto. There is a brain under that blue beret.

That's a standard Emergency Services Team maneuver.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crompsin

You know what rocks my socks? People who have never served 30 seconds in uniform making judgment calls about the quality of life in the US military. They base their assumptions on TeeVee and movies, which MUST be true.

Agreed. 110%

Plan9 · 09-11-2007, 06:44 AM

You wanna wrestle?

JumpinJesus · 09-11-2007, 07:24 AM

Is this going to be a manfight? Are you two going to oil up?

snowy · 09-11-2007, 08:15 AM

Ahhh, that I would love to see.

Plan9 · 09-11-2007, 10:37 AM

Yeah, my garrison uniforms were starched enough to deflect bullets, too.

I liked the straight OD better than the BDUs, anyway.

I think our retarded hats... the beret... being non-functional as headgear and nearly useless for everything... should fight. Blue vs. Red!

StellaLuna · 09-11-2007, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JumpinJesus

Is this going to be a manfight? Are you two going to oil up?

Wrong thread!

And as for the OP... please finish school. My dad joined the Air Force when he was 18 and finally finished his degree at age 38 after eight years of undergrad work. He retired after 20 years of service and has an awesome job. I'm so proud to be his daughter and an Air Force baby, but I wouldn't want that life for anyone who has other opportunities. If you finish college and still want to enlist, go for it. You can be an officer and already have your degree in hand. Finish school first, then get the experience that the military has to offer if you find that's what where your life is leading you.

Edited to Add-- YAY!!!!! Glad you're staying in school.

Elphaba · 09-11-2007, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by archetypal fool

I can't give enough thanks to you guys for the advice, and I know I've made the right choice - I'm staying, and I'm keeping the hot Cuban college girls to myself.

Lucky Cuban college girls.

TotalMILF · 09-11-2007, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by archetypal fool

I can't give enough thanks to you guys for the advice, and I know I've made the right choice - I'm staying, and I'm keeping the hot Cuban college girls to myself.

Glad to hear it!

Oh, and I would pay $$$ to see BOR and Cromp duke it out, especially if there is baby oil involved.

xepherys · 09-12-2007, 02:58 AM

Meh! I was typing up a long drawn out post, but realized that it wasn't really useful. I had thought to rebut some of what was said, despite you already having made your decision, just for some future guy who might be searching for answers to similar questions. In the end, joining just because your buddies want you to is completely not even close to the right reasons. It's a way bigger decision than that.

That being said, some people LIKE being in the military. Also, some people BENEFIT form being in the military. It's not all killing women and children and getting blown up by haji. That's just what the news likes to tell you. The military as a whole (even the army) has a lot of other non-kinetic stuff going on in the world that needs manning and that is pretty great stuff.

mfh · 09-12-2007, 06:51 PM

Go ahead and enlist. I think everyone deserves to make mistakes when they're young.

Plan9 · 09-13-2007, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfh

Go ahead and enlist. I think everyone deserves to make mistakes when they're young.

So why don't you tell him to fire a flare gun into his navel and eat a uranium-238 omelet while he's at it?

Those activities would be relatively safe over dropping a 100% free ride for a (we'll assume) quality college education.

Which would make one a total douchebag that even god couldn't forgive.

tecoyah · 09-13-2007, 04:21 AM

Added to your Con list:

Quote:

Since 2003, more than 30,000 airmen and sailors have been retrained to do things they normally wouldn't be called on to do, like run vehicle convoys, take part in street patrols, and get used to the sound of an AK-47 — the weapon of choice for insurgents in Iraq.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=10314346

Plan9 · 09-13-2007, 07:58 AM

And why is being retrained to do your job as it evolves considered a con?

Or would you prefer us in blue uniforms and lining up in rows to take shots?

sapiens · 09-13-2007, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crompsin

And why is being retrained to do your job as it evolves considered a con?

Or would you prefer us in blue uniforms and lining up in rows to take shots?

I suppose it could be looked at as a con in that your job may evolve into one unrecognizable from the one you signed up to do.

Plan9 · 09-13-2007, 08:22 AM

Such is the nature of warfare... and thus... soldiers who engage in it.

Evolve, Adapt, Overcome

WWII was nothing like Vietnam was nothing like Iraq.

sapiens · 09-13-2007, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crompsin

Such is the nature of warfare... and thus... soldiers who engage in it.

Evolve, Adapt, Overcome

WWII was nothing like Vietnam was nothing like Iraq.

I don't doubt it. It's admirable. However, some might consider it a con to sign up to be an air transporter and then find yourself taking part in street patrols.

Plan9 · 09-13-2007, 08:34 AM

Life Lesson: Nobody joins the military do to what THEY want.

On a US military ID card it says:

"PROPERTY OF US GOVERNMENT"

They mean YOU, not the piece of plastic.

tecoyah · 09-13-2007, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crompsin

And why is being retrained to do your job as it evolves considered a con?

Or would you prefer us in blue uniforms and lining up in rows to take shots?

Imagine yourself a trained network engineer, who is told he will now be writing code for an accounting program....that my friend, is a Con.

Plan9 · 09-13-2007, 08:40 AM

Is he in the military?

If so, the response to his concern would be:

"You still get paid the same."

tecoyah · 09-13-2007, 08:59 AM

Thank you....I believe you just helped my case for the addition to the Con list. Please understand my intent is not to in any way be critical of military service, as I have great respect for all those willing to risk death for my benefit. My intent was simply to explain why I felt this individual case was a negative for the OP.

Plan9 · 09-13-2007, 09:20 AM

Running joke: Military personnel risk their lives for civilians 8000 miles away.

I risk my life for the 18 year old high school kid next to me with the machine gun and the peach fuzz on his chin.

...

Joining the US military in some fashion is probably the single best thing you can do for yourself if you don't have a trade in mind or money for college.

QuasiMondo · 09-13-2007, 01:54 PM

Stay in college, and if you still want to join the Air Force, at least you'll have a degree so you qualify to be an officer. Best of both worlds, I would think.

Seer666 · 09-13-2007, 11:35 PM

Don't buy the "buddy program" shit. You get to go to basic together, and school if you choose the same job, but as for duty stations, is needs of the military, so your chance of getting stationed with your friends is slim at best. that being said, think about it carefully. Having done 9 years in the Navy, I can say that it's one of the best things I've ever done for myself. I am, however, getting out because I can no longer take the bullshit involved with it. Most of that does stem from a REALLY shitty chain of command. With the right CoC, it can be one of the most rewarding things you will ever do. It can also, as in my case, go the other way. Make damn sure it's something you want to do. If it is, it will be the best time of your life, if not, you will hate ever moment of it. Feel free to message me if you have any questions that might help you decide one way or the other.

09-10-2007, 06:36 PM	#1 (permalink)
archetypal fool Crazy Location: Florida	Hard Choice - Continue University vs. Join Air Force As some of you know, I I'm not a fan of the Iraq/ensuing Iran war, but two of my best friends are - these are high school friends who were with me from the beginning, even when I had no one else. They helped me break through my shell, and have always supported me, and they are both enlisting in the US Air Force - actually, one of them enlisted a while ago and the other one will join in February - they want me to go along so we can be the gang we've always been, and until they brought it up I had never considered it. So now here's my situation: I'm a University student - much more than 100% of my tuition and more than half of my living expenses are paid for through scholarships - in other words, I have free future, and am not in need of the financial support which enlisting will grant me. I've tried weighing the good and the bad and have come to a balance of pros and cons, so I need some advice. And so I present my problem to the only internet forum which I hold enough respect for to really take provided advice to heart . Here's my list: The pros of enlisting: I get to be with my best friends I get beat back into shape (ladies appreciate a healthy lookin' body, right? ) I get all my living expenses paid for - food, board and cloths are provided to me, so I don't have to worry about rent, expenses, etc. I get free college credits, though they aren't in my preferred major. The Air Force will pay my tuition after Technical Training School, so I can get that Biology degree I so much crave - though I will have to wait longer Businesses love to see military experience on resumes, so I get a leg up for the future I get to try something new, as my life at the moment is less than exciting I get to keep an eye out for my friends, since we will all get deployed together The cons of enlisting: I leave my family, as the base we're all going to is in North Dakota, and my family lives in Florida. I lose my very comforting scholarships, though I can more likely than not get some of them back as a transfer student I leave my music/books/computer behind during boot camp I get beat into shape I can't participate in Tilted Politics any more I lose the security/assurance I have here I aid Bush & Co. in their quest for world domination There aren't as many hot Cuban girls in the military in North Dakota as there are in a South Florida university. Despite my exuberant use of emoticons above, I'm really torn and serious here, as my future will really be significantly changed by this choice - I'll appreciate any advice you guys have to give me, and especially any posts from previous or current Air Force recruits regarding your experiences, regrets, advice, etc.. Thanks to all. __________________ I have my own particular sorrows, loves, delights; and you have yours. But sorrow, gladness, yearning, hope, love, belong to all of us, in all times and in all places. Music is the only means whereby we feel these emotions in their universality. ~H.A. Overstreet

09-10-2007, 07:19 PM	#3 (permalink)
archetypal fool Crazy Location: Florida	From what I understand, there's a buddy program which lets groups be sent together to boot camp, base, and eventual deployment. I'll have to have another round at figuring out the details, but that's what I've been told, and it's the whole premise to the plan we've decided on - if it breaks down I have no reason to go - how will I keep an eye out for my friends if they're in a completely different dispatch, or whatever that is? It would be completely pointless for me to go unless I'm with them. __________________ I have my own particular sorrows, loves, delights; and you have yours. But sorrow, gladness, yearning, hope, love, belong to all of us, in all times and in all places. Music is the only means whereby we feel these emotions in their universality. ~H.A. Overstreet

09-10-2007, 08:20 PM	#7 (permalink)
JumpinJesus Junkie Location: Chicago	Finish your degree. Your recruiter - or anyone else in the Air Force - is under no obligation to keep any promises made to you once you swear your oath. And you'll notice that the contract you sign makes no promises to you, except that you'll be owned by the government for 8 years. Of course, had I stayed in, I'd be retiring this year, so things may have changed in the last 20 years. I just know that when I was in and mentioned some of the promises made me by my recruiter, I remember a lot of laughing. __________________ "I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am" - Cormac McCarthy, All The Pretty Horses

09-11-2007, 02:37 AM	#10 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	(did four years in the Army, '03-'07) Yeah, finish your god-damn school before I come choke the crap out of you for being a... ... weenie-face. AND HERE'S WHY: I did FOUR years so I could PAY for college because I didn't have much hope of scholarships and was essentially broke. You have a 100% free ride, right? Are you on drugs thinking about joining the military with your friends? If so... stop the drugs... and finish your education! This is the ONLY right thing to do. If you REALLY wanna join the military with your friends, do it AFTER you have your degree. 'Sides... enlisting these days is pretty much two free trips to the desert punctuated by 6-12 months back at home dealing with pre-deployment crap. ... Getting buff? Pfft, son... its the Air Force! Those pussies won't get you in shape. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

09-11-2007, 06:08 AM	#13 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	USELESS DIATRIBE GOES FIRST: You know what rocks my socks? People who have never served 30 seconds in uniform making judgment calls about the quality of life in the US military. They base their assumptions on TeeVee and movies, which MUST be true. ... RE: Hanging Olive Drab Ninja PUSSY. You're not wearing 80 pounds of body armor! (j/k) Cute trick, but nobody shoots like that, bro. Especially with a Colt Commando. Those things have more muzzle displacement than a fat chick after too many Red Bulls. I had this one buddy that... well, yeah. Nevermind. Seriously: I love Air Force. I should have joined them instead of the Army. Hell, I'd probably still be IN the AF right now if I had. They're laid back, got a ton of money, and don't play the bullshit uniform / regulation / drill sergeant games. AF EOD are my favorite cowboys. Those dudes made Army EOD look like kids in a sandbox. ... Yeah, the military is a weird physical fitness monster. Half fatasses and half Spartan superheroes. And skinny guys like me. ... OP Guy: Go to college. Don't be a weenie-face. Join the military AFTER college, if you so desire. It kicks ass and women cream their jeans because you're wearing ripstop polyester with earth-tone squiggles. Just remember: Officers have to earn respect. NCOs simply excrete respect from special glands in their fists and eyeballs. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake." Last edited by Plan9; 09-11-2007 at 06:13 AM..

09-10-2007, 07:12 PM	#2 (permalink)
Midnight Banned Location: Chicago's western burbs	Air force I would think would be one of your safer branches as at this point there seem to be more ground troops being deployed than there are air strikes. You can utilize your GI money in addition to the scholarships or before or after them, so you'd be a nice bit better off in that area. I don't know that there is any chance of you being with your buddies during basic or further on, so keep in mind you may well enlist then find yourself alone without your buddies. You can also check with SFU, many unis offer online study, and you MAY be able to complete a part of your studies from on base even before you get out. You could also work part time for something like your local airport with the TSA or with your local post office when you get out in addition to school and or another job you might have, and be working towards a government pension you would be getting in addition to SSI when you get there later on in life which your military time counts toward... There are a hell of a lot of pros to going now.. As well as cons. I look forward to seeing what are military/former military have to say about this.

09-10-2007, 07:40 PM	#5 (permalink)
passthru Addict Location: Portland, OR	Let me try and play devil's advocate on your points: The pros of enlisting: * I may die with my best friends * I get beat (in some ways, literally) back into shape ..instead of in a more casual way * I get all my living expenses paid for - food, board and cloths are provided to me, so I don't have to worry about rent, expenses, etc. ..If half of your expenses are already paid for, this isn't a great deal. Especially since afterwards you'll have been through violence instead of an education. * I get free college credits, though they aren't in my preferred major. ..How is that a pro if they won't apply to your major? * The Air Force will pay my tuition after Technical Training School, so I can get that Biology degree I so much crave - though I will have to wait longer ..You're already on scholarships, so this just means you'll have to wait longer for your degree. * Businesses love to see military experience on resumes, so I get a leg up for the future ..Are you sure the places you'll be working with your biology degree will care about your military experience? Given, most people respect military service.. but will that be applicable to biology? * I get to try something new, as my life at the moment is less than exciting ..There are lots and lots of very exciting things you can do that don't involve being shot at, exploded, etc., and those things also don't go against your ideals like helping "Bush & Co." does. * I get to keep an eye out for my friends, since we will all get deployed together ..You could also keep an eye out for them by persuading them not to travel to such a dangerous place. The cons of enlisting: * I leave my family, as the base we're all going to is in North Dakota, and my family lives in Florida. ..You'll be with two of your best friends and will make new, very close, friends. * I lose my very comforting scholarships, though I can more likely than not get some of them back as a transfer student ..Find out your chances/the procedures to get them back, if it's easy there's not much of a con here. * I leave my music/books/computer behind during boot camp ..You won't have time for those things anyway, you'll be very busy assimilating. * I get beat into shape ..The military will make very sure you're in shape, which sounds like a good thing if you haven't been able to keep yourself as fit as you'd like. * I can't participate in Tilted Politics any more ..You sure? Maybe not as often, but soldiers do have some Internet access. * I lose the security/assurance I have here ..Whatever you lose in the meantime may be offset by your experiences and the relationships they build for your future. * I aid Bush & Co. in their quest for world domination ..In the military you follow orders without hesitation, such disturbing thoughts as these won't occur to you. * There aren't as many hot Cuban girls in the military in North Dakota as there are in a South Florida university. ..Hmm I'm not sure I can counter that one. You can probably guess my general opinion. I think that if you actually take any of our subjective thoughts into account instead of knowing you want to join and telling _us_ why, you're not sure you want to be in the military. You should be sure you want to be in the military before joining, and you are the only one who will have made that decision. That being said, if you want to join, I would suggest waiting to complete your bachelor's degree. I think it would be much better to enter as an officer.

09-10-2007, 08:01 PM	#6 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	If it were me, so only speaking for myself, I'd go to school and run out the scholarships completely.

09-10-2007, 08:28 PM	#8 (permalink)
Bear Cub The Reverend Side Boob Location: Nofe Curolina	Don't do it, pure and simple.

09-11-2007, 03:08 AM	#11 (permalink)
Shauk Confused Adult Location: Spokane, WA	listen to crom

09-11-2007, 06:44 AM	#15 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	You wanna wrestle? __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

09-11-2007, 07:24 AM	#16 (permalink)
JumpinJesus Junkie Location: Chicago	Is this going to be a manfight? Are you two going to oil up? __________________ "I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am" - Cormac McCarthy, All The Pretty Horses

09-11-2007, 08:15 AM	#17 (permalink)
snowy Kick Ass Kunoichi Location: Oregon	Ahhh, that I would love to see. __________________ If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

09-11-2007, 10:37 AM	#18 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Yeah, my garrison uniforms were starched enough to deflect bullets, too. I liked the straight OD better than the BDUs, anyway. I think our retarded hats... the beret... being non-functional as headgear and nearly useless for everything... should fight. Blue vs. Red! __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake." Last edited by Plan9; 09-11-2007 at 10:43 AM..

09-12-2007, 02:58 AM	#22 (permalink)
xepherys <3 TFP Location: 17TLH2445607250	Meh! I was typing up a long drawn out post, but realized that it wasn't really useful. I had thought to rebut some of what was said, despite you already having made your decision, just for some future guy who might be searching for answers to similar questions. In the end, joining just because your buddies want you to is completely not even close to the right reasons. It's a way bigger decision than that. That being said, some people LIKE being in the military. Also, some people BENEFIT form being in the military. It's not all killing women and children and getting blown up by haji. That's just what the news likes to tell you. The military as a whole (even the army) has a lot of other non-kinetic stuff going on in the world that needs manning and that is pretty great stuff. __________________ The prospect of achieving a peace agreement with the extremist group of MILF is almost impossible... -- Emmanuel Pinol, Governor of Cotobato My Homepage

09-12-2007, 06:51 PM	#23 (permalink)
mfh Upright Location: San Francisco	Go ahead and enlist. I think everyone deserves to make mistakes when they're young. __________________ mike

09-13-2007, 07:58 AM	#26 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	And why is being retrained to do your job as it evolves considered a con? Or would you prefer us in blue uniforms and lining up in rows to take shots? __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

09-13-2007, 08:22 AM	#28 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Such is the nature of warfare... and thus... soldiers who engage in it. Evolve, Adapt, Overcome WWII was nothing like Vietnam was nothing like Iraq. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

09-13-2007, 08:34 AM	#30 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Life Lesson: Nobody joins the military do to what THEY want. On a US military ID card it says: "PROPERTY OF US GOVERNMENT" They mean YOU, not the piece of plastic. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

09-13-2007, 08:40 AM	#32 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Is he in the military? If so, the response to his concern would be: "You still get paid the same." __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

09-13-2007, 08:59 AM	#33 (permalink)
tecoyah Illusionary	Thank you....I believe you just helped my case for the addition to the Con list. Please understand my intent is not to in any way be critical of military service, as I have great respect for all those willing to risk death for my benefit. My intent was simply to explain why I felt this individual case was a negative for the OP. __________________ Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

09-13-2007, 09:20 AM	#34 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Running joke: Military personnel risk their lives for civilians 8000 miles away. I risk my life for the 18 year old high school kid next to me with the machine gun and the peach fuzz on his chin. ... Joining the US military in some fashion is probably the single best thing you can do for yourself if you don't have a trade in mind or money for college. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

09-13-2007, 01:54 PM	#35 (permalink)
QuasiMondo Wise-ass Latino Location: Pretoria (Tshwane), RSA	Stay in college, and if you still want to join the Air Force, at least you'll have a degree so you qualify to be an officer. Best of both worlds, I would think. __________________ Cameron originally envisioned the Terminator as a small, unremarkable man, giving it the ability to blend in more easily. As a result, his first choice for the part was Lance Henriksen. O. J. Simpson was on the shortlist but Cameron did not think that such a nice guy could be a ruthless killer. -From the Collector's Edition DVD of The Terminator

09-13-2007, 11:35 PM	#36 (permalink)
Seer666 Oh dear God he breeded Location: Arizona	Don't buy the "buddy program" shit. You get to go to basic together, and school if you choose the same job, but as for duty stations, is needs of the military, so your chance of getting stationed with your friends is slim at best. that being said, think about it carefully. Having done 9 years in the Navy, I can say that it's one of the best things I've ever done for myself. I am, however, getting out because I can no longer take the bullshit involved with it. Most of that does stem from a REALLY shitty chain of command. With the right CoC, it can be one of the most rewarding things you will ever do. It can also, as in my case, go the other way. Make damn sure it's something you want to do. If it is, it will be the best time of your life, if not, you will hate ever moment of it. Feel free to message me if you have any questions that might help you decide one way or the other. __________________ Bad spellers of the world untie!!! I am the one you warned me of I seem to have misplaced the bullet with your name on it, but I have a whole box addressed to occupant.