guthmund

Hello all,

I did a search...came up with various threads...however...

I've been diving into old boxes and discovered a copy of Civilization II. I had such a good time with it, I've been raiding the bargain bins looking for games like it.

I've found Civ III, which is a blast. The depth of this game is daunting to say the least. The ability to opt out of "conquering a people" to win was nice too as I get my ass kicked pretty throughly at most of these games.

Civ III led me to Rise of Nations, which was fun, but the details in which you get bogged down in and the quick pace made it less enjoyable. I've since had a friend promise to loan me RoN: Thrones and Patriots, which he says is better.

I always liked the war RTS games like Command and Conquer and the ilk, but I'm looking for a more Sim feel. Creating a people from scratch, guiding them and things like that. I like the war aspect of these games, but like it optional as well.

So, I guess the question is: What good strategy game would you recommend? Why do you recommend it?

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MahlerIsGod

I am a die-hard Age Of Empires (II, Conquerors Expansion) player. In the years that it has been out (3 or 4?) it has been the first game I have installed on each of my new systems. I think StarCraft but you need to micromanage to much. In AOE you tell a villager to farm, they farm until they die or the game ends. Plus there is a really, really handy "Idle Villager" button that lets you know if someone is just loafing and not doing anything. I have been involved in some heated and fercious battles (combining both land and sea) with some friends. We would be on the verge of eliminating one another but we would rebuild and a game could last several hours (the longest game I was ever involved was 6 hours). Personally, I think its the best RTS game ever. Period. End of story. Plus, you should be able to find it in the bargin bin.

P.S. I liked C&C: Generals but it got a little repetitive. Also, Rise Of Nations, like Starcraft, there was tooooooo much micromanagement.

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Pellaz

If you haven't played it, Pharoh might be right up your alley. It's basicaly a sim game with a token form of combat thrown in.

Another oldie buy goody would be Master of Orion 2 (and please, for the love of all that's holy, stay away from 3)

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nanofever

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri is an amazing game. Think Civ III post-apollo project, then add radically different factions, custom unit creation in-game, diplomacy options that dwarf Civ III and an actual storyline in the game. The "WIN" options in SM:AC include war, economic victory through credit accumulation, election based on population, forcing factions to all sign allegiances to you and the "tech" victory. The downside is that the graphic are somewhere between CIV II and CIV III. The game came out in 1999 so you might have to search a bit.

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guthmund

I will certainly check all those out and appreciate the responses.

Mahler is there any one particular Age of Empires you'd pick? I've run into quite a few of these and I'm certainly interested....

Pellaz, I will indeed be checking out Pharoah and a friend recommended Master of Orion 2 (He as well shares your apprehension of 3 )

nano, Civilization in space? I am certainly going to try to find this one.

Thanks a bunch, anybody else got a favorite?

What about Age of Mythology? Caesar?

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MahlerIsGod

Guthmund,
You should definitely get Age Of Empires II: Conquerors Expansion Pack. It is the last, and best, edition of the game.



I didn't talk about Age Of Mythology, another really good game but not in the same league as as AOE, because it is still probably around $40. You said you were looking for bargain bin games. Still its a game worth investigating. Hope this helps.

P.S. I cannot believe no one has mentioned Star Craft. Another game in the same league as AOE II, IMHO, and definitely in the bargin bin. There is a huge (Huge!!!!) following of this game in Asia. They even have professional players and tournaments. I have seen videos of these touranments and they are insane. Men, 40 or 50 years old, playing for 12-16 hours straight. Crazy. Still a great game.

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messy

I just got into the whole RTS thing about a week ago after coming across Rise of Nations. Without a doubt, one of my favorite games. And I always thought I was a diehard 1st person shooter fan.

Just yesterday I picked up Age of Mythology, which is just as good. I love creating the mythological units and sending them in to beat the crap out of buildings and houses. And it's a Microsoft game, so the controls are similiar to Rise of Nations. You may want to check it out.

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MooseMan3000

I'm not quite sure if this fits or not, but something you might look into is Black and White. This game got lots of mixed reviews, and it IS pretty different than anything I've ever played before (so it's hard to rate it objectively) but I enjoyed it for a while. Some of my friends adored it while others couldn't stand it, and I was somewhere in the middle.

If you haven't heard about it, the idea is that you are a god, and you have to get people to worship you in order to give you power to fight (or ally with) other civilizations and gods. There is a certain degree of micromanagement involved to get good at it, but at first you can basically just let your worshippers do the work. If you can find it cheap, definitely give it a look-see. There are also a few expansions, though I've never played them, so I can't say anything about them.

bobbobbobbob

On the RTS side, Total Annihilation is my favourite. An old game, but with lots and lots of mods available. Land, sea and air battles all combining in different ways to make a truly strategic game.

shaggyy98

Homeworld and Homeworld2 are both really good. They take place is space, so its on a 3D plane. The only resource gathering is worker ships, tell them to harvest and they go to work. You can send a processor with them and he will deffend them from enemy ships. You have one mothership and build capitol ships to go take care of the enemy. Low graphics requirments too. Original Homeworld can be had for 10$.

jahmdir

I don't even know where to start... I have played so many good strategy games.

Here is a basic list for the two genres

Turn Based Strategy

Alpha Centauri: Awesome game... Civ in space describes it best
Civ2: My personal favorite Civ game... Civ3 just messed with perfection a little to much for my tastes
Age of Wonders: I loved this game... the music is awesome and if you like fantasy settings this is awesome.
Master of Orion 2: This game kicks ass... its old but its awesome... I don't know how MOO3 is.
Colonization: This is old... really old... its an awesome game but finding it and getting it to run can get pretty tough

Well thats all I can remember for this genre... I will post more when I remember them

Now for Real Time Strategy (RTS)

This genre is huge.

Starcraft: kinda aging but still one of the best RTS games out there. You can get the battle chest for this for pretty cheap I think
Warcraft 3: Takes the RTS genre off course a little bit. It add role playing game elements into the mix. All in all an awesome game.
Command and Conquer Generals: If you thought that any RTS game was too slow then this is the game for you. Fast RTS action is what this game is all about. A great game for multiplayer too.
Command and Conquer Red Alert 2: This game is getting a little old but it is one of my favorites. Another fast paced RTS

I just finally read exactly what you wanted and some of these might not be the best so let me list a few more off the wall strategy games.

Settlers (any number): These games are fun but can get annoying at times. You should try the demos for these before you play them.
Ceaser, Pharoah: Fun games... can get really awesome later on in the game.
Black and White: A very interesting game. I believe that it was discussed better in a previous post.
Majesty: Now here is an awesome game. You control where buildings are built and how much money goes to what and what units to build. But after that they go on their own. They do what they want. An awesome concept that can prove difficult at times but is on of my favorite games where you really don't control much.
Homeworld: I hear its good and I tried it once. I didn't prepare well enough and got killed. Its great for hard strategy games. I got to get this game again.

I will think of more games to put here... and maybe some better advice later

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guthmund

Absolutely helps. There are usually any number of used games as well. Occasionally I run across some recent titles, Age of Mythology was one that stuck out in my mind.

Two votes for AoM.

I hadn't heard of it before...sounds good though and I'll certainly check it out.

I have heard of this one. I had definately planned to snag a copy of this as I had heard good things about it.

Thank you fellows, for all the recommendations. It looks like I'll be very preoccupied for a while.

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charlesesl

Total War series.

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Kadath

Amen! This game still rocks. Bob, you want to play sometime?

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Realizm

Myth:The Fallen Lords or Myth II: Soulblighter.

MooseMan3000

How could I forget about Majesty?

My sister and I were at Best Buy looking through their bargain games, and we stumbled upon this one, in a plain case without a manual or any documentation. We gave it a shot, and we both loved it.

Like jahmdir said, it is not a traditional RTS in which you control your units and tell them exactly what to do. Rather, you build specific buildings from which you recruit heroes (a Fighter's Guild for warriors, a Ranger Encampment for rangers), and then they essentially act on their own. You can place bounties on things you want them to kill, or areas you want them to explore, but after that it's out of your control. Each of the units acts differently and has different strengths and weaknesses.

You can manage the economy through building marketplaces and trading posts for your heroes to buy items. You can build a blacksmith where they can upgrade weapons and armor. You can build a library in which wizards can learn more powerful spells. Nearly every building can be upgraded to provide more benefits.

All around, it is a very interesting, enjoyable game, one which can be quite difficult at times. Again, there are a few expansions for this one, and they are quite good, too.


And just about every game someone has mentioned here is worthy of playing, if you're into that stuff. I particularly enjoy StarCraft, Total Annihilation, certain Command and Conquer games, and Homeworld. But again, it just depends what you're looking for.

TawG

starcraft, most definetly. It has the biggest replayability, ive had it since it got out, and i still have it

NoSoup

Well, one game that is a classic is Shogun: Total War.

It much like the Board game risk, however - you can produce different types of units depending on the types of buildings you build, and each building that you create is upgradeable. It is extremely difficult on higher difficulties, in case you like a challenge.

Another aspect of the game is you can actually control the battles. You can choose to "automatically resolve the conflict" or personally command the army. Commanding the armies can get a bit redunant, but it does have a huge effect on the outcome of the battle. If you suck, your massive army can get wasted, if you are excellent, you small force can hold out for quite some time.

Just figured I'd toss my two cents in.

I would imagine it would be in the bargain bin as well, although it is also able to be found on many P2P networks, such as KaZaa...

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minusthesoul

Civ III is my favorite of the games mentioned so far. I think it improved on Civ II, especially with the expansion pack, which I would have thought was impossible before I played it.
As for Caesar, its a fun game but I would only recommend it if youre a fan of Simcity. Otherwise the other games are better.

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edwhit

When i saw the title of this thread I quickly clicked ready to push Civ3! Good to see you've found it lol

If you like a little magic thrown into your strategy, Heroes of Might and Magic 3 and 4 are great titles. Don't confuse them with Might and Magic. HOMM is pretty fun multiplayer as well.

Stare At The Sun

Starcraft, simple as that. I've been playing the game for years. Huge loyal following on battlenet, its great.

Tusko

total war.

as of yet the most in depth, but playable strategy game out there. and i've played them all, starting with squad leader, right up through steel panthers.


i like medieval with the viking invasion expansion (playing as the irish or the picts is wicked)

risk/boardgame like control map. countries lined up, you can look at their income/satisfaction/alignment/religon/power etc etc etc. you have to marry, you can marry generals if you have daughters, or marry out of your kingdom for better allied ties. you can assasinate fellow family members, or other kingdom's nobles. you can also lead crusades, be excommunicated by the pope/ kill the pope. really cool.

and then comes the battles, my favourite part is setting up. i love the setting up for battles, thats what gets me off the most. hiding the peasant warriors in the forest to ambush, putting my cavalry on a hill (they gain a bonus charging downwards) lining up my archers, you name it. it's extremely realistic, something that i, a military and history buff really appreciates.


but, as far as straight on battle, the best game/series out there is Close Combat. Bar none. I've been a member of the community since maybe the release of the third (one of the best, imho) and been in love with it since. Extremely realistc. After the third one, and with the expansion of the community (mods and the like, its a very moddable game, as well as a community of military/history buffs who helped the design of the game) it just got better and more realistic.

this is all squad level, so 10 or so platoons of 8-10 men. support units, machine guns, armour, artillery, etc.

all realistc weapons, used accurately in their theatres of war, as well as proper unit types. aerial photographs and reconaissance help make the maps near perfect. Men suffer from fatigue, green units flee and don't fight as well, veteran units (who you grow close to, and are sometimes given the options to "nickname" for easier tracking) units get better with time, and you keep track of their successes/failures. one of my most decorated men, an american sniper, with over 30 kills, more then 3 purple hearts and a number of other badges helped hold out a town pretty much alone against armour, and much stronger german infantry for 5 days or so until reinforcements arrived. however, on the last push to close up the bulge he was killed by an advancing Marder III.

Infantry battles are so fun. rushing machine gun nests, sneaking around back and fighting hand to hand. The odd occasion of one of your men going berserk and running across the battles field to charge the entrenched enemy (usually resulting in a quick death... it's rarely succesful, but a very cool and realistic part of the game) A last ditch assault of all your men against a wall of veteran troops. mortar shells closing in on you... Online play is even more intense, me and a friend would always play the campaign, (we liked Close Combat 2 in particluar) and the house to house fighting in holland was intense. Sneaking your flamethrower around to roast a couple of nasty krauts.

i loved using the panzershreck teams. It was so satisfying sneaking around with 2 men and firing off a round at 20 yards, totally wrecking the enemy's armoured rush. Plus, wrecked vehicles stock up over time, blocking off roads and making travel very difficult. (Snow even builds up over time in CC4)

Tank fighting too is great fun in 3 and 5 (most say there were some errors in 4) slaying sherman and sherman with your mighty tiger. lobbing shells over huge distances, trying to crack the mighty russian tank destroyers. Not to mention getting lucky and using an assault platoon or command squad (armed with panzerfausts, magnetic mines or at grenades) to take out an unwary tank from the top of a building.

The later games, 4 and 5 had a command map, so you could chose where to place your reinforcements, which units were fighting for which map, where your air strikes/arty/naval bombardment would land. good fun fighting for caen and using the few brdiges left to your advantage.

CC1 was good, but got better. good to play the original.

CC2 is great, nailed the game play. Vehicles speeds were perfect and infantry fought very well. Possibly the most realistic. "A bridge too far". Takes place during operation market garden. Awesome house to house fighting. And great maps.

CC3: Russia vs Germany, operation Barbarossa. Awesome, the most customizable yet. Added the acquisition screen. So you could better choose your units. Pretty good maps, lots of fighting in the steppes, and fighting in moscow. Some awesome mods, one of my favs was Vietnam. A Total Coversion, with some great units including sog teams (with the devastating claymore, and shotgun) and the tree climbing addition allowing you to climb up trees for better view. Definately a change in gameplay/tactics. I played this for a while and then playe cc4 over the net with a friend and got raped. I was used to assaulting recklessly the positions (playing as the vc, i could just swarm the americans), but not this way. especially confront with an mg42. Also, the very good Western Front mod, some great tanks, and i think you get some canuck units

CC4 A bridge too far. Brought in map screen and the arty/air strikes. Control of fuel and ammo zones too. The snow was great, often messed up with the air strikes (poor visibility) and some very very hard fighting there.

cc5, Normandy. GREAT. this and 3 are the best. IT took everything that cc4 had good, and took what it had bad, but made it better. Better phsyics, ai, everything. Plus, fighting for caen is always waaay cool.

Jesus Pimp

I'm suprised no one mentioned Master of Orion. Silent Storm is good too.

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Tusko

ooh moo, great series. avoid number 3.

hilbert25

The grandaddy of them all: Master of Magic can be had from abandonware sites. It's the best of it's kind, in term of turn based strategy.

Lords of Magic is fun, but not as good.

Lord of the Realms II was quite fun, and had a nice Castle siege element.

If you like RTS, Kohan was a really well made game.

And the Warhammer series are RTS's but they come from boardgame roots so they have a different feel. Lot's more rules behind the gameplay, like flanking, charging, fatigue, etc.

stingc

I like Hearts of Iron. Its a very realistic large-scale WWII game.

For RTS, Cossacks is great. You control realistic numbers of units (hundreds or thousands). Also, formations and unit types are much more important than in most RTS games. You almost always need to use several types of units effectively to win. Even a massive numerical advantage can be removed with a careless attack.

Scipio

Old school, but you absolutely can't go wrong with Heroes of Might and Magic III. I still play the damn game, and it's still addictive.

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Peryn

Not too many people seemed to have played, or enjoyed it, it seems, but I am a really big fan of Empire Earth. It was created by the lead designer of Age of Empires. Has a very similar feel to it, but has a huge time span. Everything from the Stone Age, to the Industrial Age, to the Nano ago (2200AD). The graphics really aren't too bad, even for a game a few years old. Even with the 9800 Pro, a really heavy attack (especially a bunch of nuclear bombers) can still give the system a good run for its money with the graphics turned up.

Might wanna check out the demo to get a feel for it. I think they have one at www.empireearth.com

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ronan

hell yeah ! heroes of might and magic is addictive as

got to say, i've played bloody HEAPS of strategy games

and it seems no one has mentioned STRONGHOLD, great game!

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