Vaultboy

Do you reckon ME2 will take sales away from DA:O dlc? I know that I won't bother getting any of the dlc.
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My main problem with DA:O is the lack of true multiclassing ability, although I can appreciate the way they set up their races and classes. So unless the dlc bring me multiclassing with plot impact, its a bit pointless just playing to level up further. To comment on a post further up in the thread, dlc does not equate to an expansion. dlc, in my estimation, is more of an add-on, mainly implemented as a side-plot or concurrent event (see Fallout 3, for a recent example). Very few dlc's have advanced the storyline in a way that Throne of Baal did for Baldur's Gate, for example.

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guy44

Oh man so freaking true. I keep trying to get Sten some game time, but he always is unable to hit anyone and then takes a lot of damage and dies first. Total waste of time, especially since I got the Stone Prisoner DLC and can use Shale instead. Plus, Sten doesn't even add the fun of character conversation. Zevran...well, he's funny, I guess. But that's about it.

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Frosstbyte

I don't completely understand what you gusy mean about Sten and Zevran. I mean, Sten, Ogren and Alister and Leliana and Zevran are essentially the same characters (from a mechanics perspective), especially if you get a respec addon or mod. There's nothing innate about them that makes them better or worse than others that I'm aware of at least. Am I missing something?

Also, Throne of Baal was definitely an expansion pack and not DLC. Even if it were released today, I'm pretty sure it would be considered an xpac. DLC is quick, cheap "get more from your game!" kinds of stuff. Throne of Baal had tons of additional gameplay, new classes, new spells, new characters. I think it's well beyond what I think of what I think of DLC.

Vaultboy

I should have clarified that was just echoing that dlc does not mean expansion, to avoid anyone confusing the two. My reference to ToB was to compare it as an expansion vs Operation Anchorage, as a dlc. And my question therefore was "Will you buy the DA:O dlc (since the expansion will not be out yet, or will you buy ME2".
Bioware have stated that they want to keep DA going for a few years, and therefore dlc will be the primary moneymaker, so the logical assumption would be that ME2 could hurt DA dlc sales.

You haven't addressed the question, merely confirmed what i said and what you said earlier.

And re: Sten, leilana etc being the same char (apart from respeccing) is not a valid argument. You can't respec, therefore poorly specced chars are useless.

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Frosstbyte

To answer more directly: I will keep buying DA:O content, because I don't particularly care about ME in any incarnation.

Shauk

I'm sorry but I don't see how a 5$ dlc is going to suffer from competing with ME2. it's 5$. People aren't going to buy ME2 and not eat for a week or something.

That said I think they're planning for March for the actual "expansion" which is going to run 40$, and I'll probably skip it for a while because march is going to be a heavy release month for my ps3. God of War 3, FFXIII, BFBC2, so I may wait till i'm done with those, and possibly by then the price will drop.

As far as character comparison, the warriors are all pretty much the same aside from maybe the initial skill point placement and stat spread, but what really makes them different is your leadership bonus effect on that character. Leliana gets +cunning while zev gets +dex for example.

Vaultboy

I am not saying this at all. Cost is not the issue: time is.

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Lasereth

Maybe you guys can help me out with this.

I completely and utterly don't understand the combat system in this game!!!!!!

I played a few hours into BG2, enough to understand the combat system...it made sense. You pause to issue commands, but if you want your party members to do certain tasks, you can make them follow rules in combat.

But in DA:O I don't get it. Sure I can issue commands while the battle is paused. But I don't want to do that most of the time. I want my party members to fight by themselves based on the tactics I assign to them.

I make all 4 of my party members attack the enemy with the lowest health, yet when the fight starts, they sit there staring at the enemy half the time without attacking.

The person I have control of (or highlighted) doesn't follow the tactics rules at all. Am I forced to control someone at all times?

I'm really confused. Why does the person I have highlighted stop following basic rules like simply attacking the enemy?

In BG2 your whole party followed the rules no matter what unless you paused and gave manual orders.

What am I missing here??

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Frosstbyte

If you have given your group tactics, the three you don't have selected should ALWAYS follow those tactics. If they're not attacking at all, make sure that you haven't put them on hold (hotkeyed to H). That makes them not move from where they're standing, so they will attack only very passively, if at all. If that isn't the problem, make sure you don't have any conflicting tactics. I *believe* they will prefer higher tactics over lower, so if you have a high one that conflicts with attack lowest health, that might mess it up.

Frankly, I did not use the tactics system very much. As I've noted a lot, I prefer to issue discrete commands to my party members. I really only allowed tactics after I'd burned a lot of available stamina and I virtually never let my casters to stay on tactics. It is not a great system and it didn't work as well as I remember BG2's automatic combat system working.

To answer your last question, the person you have selected MUST be controlled manually. You can't just let all four fight, as far as I'm aware. S/he will still autoattack a target (ranged if they can, otherwise melee if in range), but won't move or use any special attacks or follow tactics. Hope that helps. It's definitely NOT BG2's combat (which I preferred) but once you get used to it, it flows pretty smooth.

Shauk

they don't fight for you, you assume control of the selected party member, if you don't want to stand there like a dummy, then don't stand there like a dummy

Lasereth

Blah. I wish all party members would follow tactics like BG2. Thanks for clearing it up.

And if the tactics goes from top to bottom in order...then it makes sense now. I have attack lowest HP enemy at top for everyone so of course they're ignoring the other rules.

Thanks for the help!!

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Vaultboy

I preferred the KOTOR command-queue system. Worked better than DA's tactics.

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Lasereth

Yeah it's funny how systems designed years ago are left in the dust for shinier, newer systems that don't do the job properly. Look at Mass Effect's menu system. Did they not get anyone to beta test that shit? It almost ruined the game for me. Meanwhile KOTOR's menus system was simple and perfect.

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Vaultboy

KOTOR's system also resulted in more fluid play as well - less pausing, whilst still leaving you engaged in combat - monitoring, checking for interruptions to your queues or new openings.

That said, KOTOR's system was BlackIsle/Obsidian. Maybe they copyrighted it, but its hard for me to understand how.

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Mantus

I put Dragon Age down after about fifteen hours invested into it. The game looks great and feels polished but lacks originality and some very basic RPG concepts both old and new.

I've been trying to summarize all my gripes with this game without resorting to a list...

At it's core the game is very story driven. It feels like you are playing a fantasy novel and BioWare did a great job at building a vast world with a deep story. DA is by fart one of the best story content deliveries i have ever seen in an RPG. The interaction, acting and pacing are superb.

My gripe lies in the fact that this is less a game and more of an interactive novel - a mediocre novel because the story is nothing original. DA focuses so much on delivering it's content that everything which make a GAME fun suffers.

In the end I'd rather read a great fantasy novel and play ModernWarfare.

Shauk

can't take your review seriously with 15 hours of gameplay as your credibility when there is at least 60 to be had.

LoganSnake

No idea what you're talking about, Mantus. In my 46 hours with the game, I was "playing" the entire time. If you want to talk about the actual combat where you fight the enemy, then I'd say the game's combat took at least 50% of the time I've invested into it. The other 50% are divided between story-telling and exploration of towns and dungeons.

I play RPGs for the story. If you want old school gameplay, then play old-school games. RPGs today focus as much on the story as they do on gameplay. To me, Dragon Age delivered in spades.

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Vaultboy

Isn't that what a RPG is supposed to be? Especially one derived from D&D rules?

I do agree with you that DA is less original than BG, PST or Fallout was, but it does have some interesting race, lore and class concepts that made it fresh - maybe these concepts chased you away, but I reckon that using the Tolkien template is a strength. The familiarity would have won more fans than detractors, especially since the demise of Blackisle left a void which Bethesda couldn't properly fill (as grand as Oblivion is and all).

Also, you can't crank out a "top ten game of all time" at every attempt. But this is definitely a top 3 candidate for 2009.

Whilst I didnt' want to dismiss you outright (like Shauk did), this comment brought me close to doing so. COD is the biggest load of recycled shit out there, and hasn't offered anything new for itself as a title in 5 years (nevermind the genre). If you're using this as your benchmark, then I can't fathom how you can claim DA to be unoriginal.

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Mantus

LOL! Would you be able to take my review seriously if I played 60 hours and hated it?

Did you just say it it was less original than previous games while calling it "fresh" in the same paragraph? I'll admit it's a solid and well delivered story...but nothing new and very predictable. For example, just after an hour you know the main antagonist AND it's motivation. So honestly...the story just didn't keep me hooked enough to look past a dull combat system and character customization/development.

How can i put it simply: the GAME part of DA wasn't fun enough for me to keep me wanting to follow the story. If I wanted to read a fantasy novel I would but to me a good RPG should deliver both gameplay and a decent story.

Vaultboy

So now the story and combat are poor?



Less original in overall concept, fresh in detail. TO simplify it for you: DA, is what NWN2 should have been.

As if Sauron and his motivation only popped up in The Two Towers? As if most RPGs don't have a predictable storyline? I think you're just being hypercritical. There's plenty to find out (and fill in the story) in codex. In terms of worldbuilding, DA delivers better than most. As I said before, the details make it a more involving experience.

I never got bored with DA, although I did miss the lack of multiclassing. But again, the world they built made me recognise why multiclassing is not a feature.

In comparison, I actually got bored with BG1 & 2's long meandering plot. The difficult fights kept me hooked, and the Lich showdown in BG2 is probably still the best fight I've ever had in an RPG.

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guy44

I guess everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but I also have to disagree with your perceptions of the game. DA certainly doesn't reinvent the genre from the ground up, but it delivers a fantasy RPG experience that's just as great as BG, BG2, or any other game I can think of.

I love the magic system - focusing on different types of spells makes for VERY different mages, and the spell combos allow you to really open up your mage characters to interesting tactics.

Also, I dunno if you are playing a console version, but the PC version is quite challenging even on normal difficulty. I'm constantly required to pause and think for a while about tactics during a battle, which is a rarity these days. I'm also enjoying how mixing and matching characters, armor, weapons, spells, runes, etc. means that every time my party leaves camp it's essentially a whole different fighting group with immediately noticeable differences in strengths and weaknesses.

One last thing I'd mention is that I recently became an Arcane Warrior for my mage, which changes the very essence of my character. Instead of relying on my mage for support/heal/occasional nuke, he's now a hard-to-hit tank who opens up an extra slot for a rogue to mix in more ranged attacks than I previously could afford - and it's like I'm playing a different game. I'm very impressed with DA and how the experience change dramatically depending on how you approach each situation. (Three mages: awesome sauce. Er, until you face Revenants, anyways.)

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Shauk

I think the dwarven and elven storylines alone seem to prove it's not a cookie cutter high fantasy game, not to mention the unique approach on the subject of mages/templars/lyrium The human storyline is pretty much straight up your typical monarchy style bullshit though, that much I agree on.

settie

My friend bought me this game for my birthday in early December, and I only started yesterday. I can't seem to get enthused about games right now, I have Mass Effect 1, Bioshock, and Dragon Age all started, barely. Though I'd probably replay KotOR if they had DLC. lol!
I love the music, the atmosphere. But I agree with Mantus in that it feels like an interactive movie. I mean, it could potentially be good, but so far, hasn't helped me get into the game. I have had problems with fighting from the start. I'm attempting to be a ranger right now, but I'm popping my skills and talents towards becoming an assassin. It feels like not being a healer guarantees the tank dies. I've had to retry several darkspawn matches to survive. And most of the time, everyone dies, but me. I guess I have to work out the tactical guide more, find a balance.
When I'm playing my char in battle, sometimes right clicking an enemy to attack doesn't work, and she just stands there, idle. What gives? SHOOT AN ARROW, dammit.
Ah well, I'll try to grit my teeth and keep going.

guy44

There are some fixes to the problems you mention. I don't want to spoil anything for you, but there's a character you can get who is a dedicated healing mage if you really want one. Alternatively, having any mage get the heal spell is pretty essential. I also recommend crafting as many healing potions as you can at any given time, so that you are always fully stocked. Also, DA isn't Ninja Gaidan, but it most definitely is not an easy game, so don't feel embarrassed about shifting around the difficulty slider for any given battle. I've died...well, a lot. I find that dying usually is a learning experience.

I also had a very had time at first figuring out the combat system. You'll get the hang of it. If you tell a character to do something and they aren't doing it, most of the time it's because they can't - characters can be under a spell, knocked down, stunned, etc.

I hope things get better, cause its a great game.

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Mantus

Meh! That's still my opinion :P

LoganSnake

Just so y'all know, the expansion is already out. I'm going through another title at the moment, but I will pick it up soon. The reviews so far have been very positive.

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Derwood

$40 for an expansion seems steep, and I don't have the 1.6 GB of HD space to download it anyways (only have a 40GB HDD)

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LoganSnake

Yeah, it is a bit steep. I'm sure it will be on sale on one site or another soon.

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Vizzini

My 40 bucks is pretty much gone. I loved DA:O too much not to get this.

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Inconceivable!

Shauk

yeah I'm currently being a regular player of bfbc2, the sc2 beta, god of war 3 and FFXIII, my plate is full but I will get to this one.

settie

So I'm finally playing the game again, and its great.
I did all the origin stories yesterday, and have my male mage up to level 12 in the Mages Circle again.

Problem is, I can get anywhere in the fade. You're supposed to turn into a mouse, and while I do see the mouse, I click on it, and get nothing. I've googled for help, but no luck. This sucks! I WANT TO PLAY

LoganSnake

You're supposed to see the mouse go into a hole, IIRC.

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Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing that you'll be an idiot in the future. Common sense is knowing that you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques

settie

Naw I've got it. My network service provider fucked up the game load. Bastards.

Vizzini

If you haven't bought the expansion but was thinking about doing so.
Using the promo code PAXEAST842 at eastore.ea.com will get you $20 off the price.

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Inconceivable!

Cynthetiq

I'm trying to play the game and find it frustrating and boring. But I don't generally like such kinds of games. Just trying it out...

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settie

I found it frustrating to start too. And I greatly enjoyed KotOR, but didn't find Mass Effect spectacular, just average.

You wanna know how I found it fun? Well, for starters, I play on easy.

Next, I use this site: Dragon Age Nexus. Its filled with cheats and addons. I use cool ones like making your pet mabari a fifth player in your team, and the slap morrigan addon, and other cool items that let you boost your stats, spells, talents/skills, etc, and cool costumes.

That made it more enjoyable. I wasn't playing the game for fighting, and I found when I first started it up, it felt way too much like D&D, too fight-focused, not enough rpg for the game. Now that fighting's very easy for my player, its more tolerable.

Vaultboy

To each his/her own, I suppose.

I ported my char to the expansion, and I have to say that I like the "replacement" party members, and the general direction of the storyline. I expected a bit more....expansiveness to the expansion, but given that it was released so quickly, it was never going to be a Throne of Baal. I still find the combat too easy, even on Hard (2nd most difficult setting, cant remember exactly what they call it), but I reckon it has to do with my party composition, which I replicated from DoA: My main is a Mage (Sword/Shield Arcane Warrior), Rogue (Archer Bard/Ranger), Warrior (2-handed Berserker Champion), Mage (Spirit Healer).

Basically, I soak up dmg, throw world-ending spells high level spells and buff my team to high heaven, whilst my Warrior and Archer are set for massive damage, and my healer spams disables and heals. Pretty standard pattern - so much so that again my only criticism of the DoA francise is that they didn't copy KoToRs command-queuing HUD.

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settie

Yep. But I don't think you started in the same boat as some of us in this thread. And you can see it throughout the thread, people either find it easy fighting, or annoying/difficult, etc.

I have serious lag problems when i play the game. When I use my mage, if I use a fireball, it takes 5-10 seconds to see that fireball actually appear and cause damage, while the gameplay has been going the entire time. So, if I set a fireball around me, to push away enemies, well, I could be dead before the fireball decides to show up.

THAT is frustrating. I had similar problems with my ranger, that and its far too difficult to select enemies in a cluster when you're an archer. Why don't they have some sort of tab through the enemies while in pause mode, like they did in KotOR?

I gave up before the battle in ostagar even happened, without cheats, playing on normal. I couldn't kill simple groups of 5 darkspawn. But, my friends insisted I try again, and showed me the best cheats, and said to just try it on easy.

It took away that annoyance to fighting, thank god. The only time I want to feel annoyed while fighting, is in a versus match on left4dead 2. That is competitive-ish gaming, I want dragon age to feel purely casual.

But hey, that's just my preference.

Seaver

SPOILER!








I dont know when I was knocked unconcious on my wedding day and my bride was dragged away to get raped... or when our close family friend raided our keep and killed my parents... I was gripped pretty well.

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settie

Hey hey hey!
Who's checking out all the cool DLC content for this game lately? I know I am!
And on September 7th, the mother of all content comes out: THE RETURN OF MORRIGAN!!!!
Oh man oh man. I'm so excited for this. The two characters I wanted to run into after the endgame are Morrigan and Zevran. I hope they do one for Zevran.